Jamie Dimon's Blunt Message for Europe: 'You're Losing' (cnbc.com) 117
An anonymous reader shares a report: JPMorgan Chase boss Jamie Dimon did not pull his punches when he spoke at Ireland's Department of Foreign Affairs.
"You're losing," he said of European competitiveness with the U.S. and Asia, in comments reported by the Financial Times. "Europe has gone from 90% U.S. GDP to 65% over 10 or 15 years. That's not good."
"We've got this huge, strong market and our companies are big and successful, have huge kinds of scale that are global. You have that, but less and less," Dimon said on Thursday.
"You're losing," he said of European competitiveness with the U.S. and Asia, in comments reported by the Financial Times. "Europe has gone from 90% U.S. GDP to 65% over 10 or 15 years. That's not good."
"We've got this huge, strong market and our companies are big and successful, have huge kinds of scale that are global. You have that, but less and less," Dimon said on Thursday.
Winning? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe Europe has seen America starting to get tired of all the winning it's been doing lately, and decided to pass on the opportunity.
BTW, Dimon is a vicious fuck-witted opportunistic asshole.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That is my take as well. And Europe does not have a severe, long-term and possibly unrecoverable crash in its near future either.
Re:Winning? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't kid yourself, when they crash, they will be dragging Europe down with them.
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See Greece and Italy after the US financial crisis
Amplified Boom-Bust (Score:2)
Don't kid yourself, when they crash, they will be dragging Europe down with them.
Yes, when the US economy tanks it will damage most Western economies as well as others. However, as we saw with the prime mortage crisis, the damage will be much worse in the US. That's the difference between the US and most other western economies: it has an amplified boom-bust cycle. Right now, at the peak of a boom, it's ahead but once it goes bust it will drop much more. Europe and Canada try to dampen the oscillations a lot more.
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Europe and Canada try to dampen the oscillations a lot more.
And they will succeed, because they know what is coming.
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However, as we saw with the prime mortage crisis, the damage will be much worse in the US.
What? lol.
The US not only had a lower decline in GDP due to 2008, but it also flew out of that decline so fast that Europe can arguably be said to have still not recovered.
Is that where we are now? We just make shit up to help us rationalize the shit going on in the US, now?
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Define "near term." Europe as we know it will not survive its population crash. Socialist programs are among the first become insolvent.
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Not only will ultimately Europe suffer worse than we do from any economic recession here, we'll climb out of it better too.
Dimon may be a prick- but he's also not wrong.
Trying to puff your chest out won't help solve the problem, even if it does make you feel better about it.
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The only fucking moron here are you. There is no "we". The billionaires will climb out of it better, sure. You are not one of them, though. They don't even consider you being the same species. "We" my arse.
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The only fucking moron here are you.
If that's what you've got out of the gate, I have a feeling I'm about to make you look very stupid.
There is no "we".
Are you trying to imply that US income is unconnected to its GDP?
The billionaires will climb out of it better, sure.
Yes. They are, after all, people who live here...
You are not one of them, though.
Correct, I am not.
They don't even consider you being the same species.
Eh, I worked for one for a while. They're not that bad. Some can be though.
"We" my arse.
Are you trying to imply that non-billionaires didn't recover from the 2008 recession?
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Re:Winning? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mr. Dimon has a net worth of $2.8 billion. You typically do not become that wealthy by being kind and generous.
As for his complaint, when you dig into it a bit, much of the increase in the GDP gap can be attributed to massive growth in the US tech sector.
But now that companies like Alphabet/Google, Apple, Amazon, Meta, and X have grown so large and gained so much influence under the US regulatory system, we're really seeing how ugly they've become. The US is tipping into right-wing authoritarianism and most of those companies are either helping to push the country in that direction or turning a blind eye to it to protect their wealth. And with it, you're seeing an erosion of civil rights, an increase in wealth inequity, a loss of the free press / more propaganda and sanewashing, an increase in health inequity, and much greater levels of government corruption.
So sure, GDP is higher. But at what cost? And what does the future look like for the USA? If things go south, Mr. Dimon can flee with much of his wealth. For much of the rest of the US population, that's not really an option. So maybe we need to look at the bigger picture?
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Who really needs health care anyway? You die when you die, right?
Or as Senator Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) said at a town hall meeting in response to constituent complaints about the Medicaid cuts in their/Trump's bill, "We are all going to die." Senator Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) followed up later with, "They'll get over it."
What these comments fail to recognize is that while part of the equation is longevity, it's mostly about quality of life -- heath care usually helps with that and health insurance usually helps pay for that.
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The US has great healthcare.
Our longevity is also top-of-the-world- if you're well-off.
About 90% of the US has good health care, and good longevity.
About 10% has basically none and nearly third-world longevity.
What the Senator is saying is, "who gives a fuck if poor people die?"
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I don't think you really grasp what's really being said.
...
What the Senator is saying is, "who gives a fuck if poor people die?"
No, I get it -- as did many of her constituents.
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From a moral perspective, it's disgusting to look at that segment of people that way, but from an accuracy statement, it's IQ-of-50 critical thinking to apply the reasoning the US as a whole.
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Mr. Dimon has a net worth of $2.8 billion. You typically do not become that wealthy by being kind and generous.
Typically you become that wealthy by having rich parents.
Sure enough, his dad was a stock broker, did well enough to send him to prep school. The contacts and the financial support were all in place before he was born.
I think you are right. Europe may be better off without US style massive GDP gains while the citizens suffer. Also apologies for the UK tanking its GDP with Brexit, I didn't vote for it but it's a pretty damning reflection on our education system.
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You also don't become that wealthy by being wrong a lot.
Re:Winning? (Score:4, Informative)
European productivity is well behind America, and the gap is widening.
Why Europe's productivity is falling behind [ecipe.org]
European PE ratios are significantly lower than in America, which means that investors, including European investors, expect European companies to grow more slowly.
BTW, Dimon is a vicious fuck-witted opportunistic asshole.
That doesn't make him wrong.
Oh,but it does... (Score:3)
Not that he stated the facts...
but because it shows he is narrow-minded and missing much more important points...
Do we live to work or work to live?
Is making more billions for him and his budy-billionaires is what really matters?
It just shows that something is terribly wrong with his values and understanding what does it mean to live and understand other people...
Yes, our plutocrats are out plutoing theirs (Score:1, Offtopic)
Yip, most the "winning" in the USA trickles up, while N. Europe has better safety nets & health, better college funding, and more vacation.
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The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
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Give the EU some credit. It's very good at banning successful ideas originating in America.
Re: Winning? (Score:2)
Before Europe can try to solve a problem it needs to appoint 237 bureaucrats to attend 5 years of conferences to establish the rules for solving the problem. Then it will appoint an additional 375 bureaucrats to execute phase 1a.1 of the solution in the 27 year cycle of problem solving. Success!
So? (Score:5, Insightful)
The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)
The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
What? You care about quality of life? You care about community? You believe that having the choice to simply "work to live" is better than being forced to "live to work"? What the fuck is wrong with you? /sarc
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
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You see the homes, kitchens, vacations, etc. of people like Alec Baldwin and you realize wow, the finishes might be slightly fancier but in reality it's not fundamentally different -- not to any relevant degree
Here we are saying that most Americans have houses not very different from Alec Baldwin, and yet whenever electric vehicles are mentioned on slashdot, you can just bet comments are going to say "but half of America can't charge at home!"
Which is it? We all live like Alec Baldwin, or we can't even charge electric vehicles at home.
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I stopped at "all boats are being lifted". (Thanks for opening with that.) Obviously you're ignoring the relevant figures - Gini coefficient for starters. And the entire trajectory of American politics and society over the last several decades. The masses didn't vote for Trump because they were so happy and well-off under the status quo.
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The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
What? You care about quality of life? You care about community? You believe that having the choice to simply "work to live" is better than being forced to "live to work"? What the fuck is wrong with you? /sarc
This correlation between macroeconomic measures of economic vitality and individual quality of living is an interesting discussion. There's probably some correlation, albeit not necessarily a strong correlation, between the two. Furthermore, income inequality may cause a strong national economy to lead to great lives for the few rich and struggles for the poor masses. Maybe the most interesting question is whether strong macroeconomic numbers are needed for sustainable broad quality of living, or if weak
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Fair point.
The other fair point is how long will those good points last as the Europeans continue to hollow out their economies. If Ursula's goal is to manage a slow collapse back to feudalism she is doing a fine job.
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The collapse to feudalism is happening in places that have given up on democracy and law and consider crowning their kleptocrat-in-chief as king.
Europe is still not there.
Hence it is the new ideological enemy of the part of the former US that keeps barking about how good a race to the bottom is and how Xi-guo and Putinland are great examples of governance.
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how are EU wages doing
Not so good. Europeans earn about 40% less than Americans, and the gap is growing.
how is access to healthcare
8% of Americans lack health insurance.
what is the average lifespan
Average lifespans are mostly determined by demographics, not government policies.
more importantly how happy are people?
Happiness is strongly correlated with hours of sunlight.
Re: So? (Score:2)
Re: So? (Score:2)
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In this instance, you're using the World Happiness Report, which is such a pile of unadulterated bullshit that you should be embarrassed citing it.
It doesn't measure happiness, it measures metrics that the report authors consider metrics of happiness., unironically called a "Life Evaluation Score", which fucking bizarrely precludes self-asserted "financial evaluation" (as if that's disjointed from
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My important questions are :
1). How much is the government fucking me over by taking the money that I've worked so hard for?
2). How much is the government fucking me over by banning shit?
3), How much is the government fucking me over by limiting my freedom?
That third question is really just the generic way of stating the first two.
Didn't know it was a race (Score:2)
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Well, Europe definitely has lost the race to "most super rich people" and the one to "average people struggle" and "many people do not have access to healthcare" as well.
In other words, except to a psychopath economist, Europe is doing just fine.
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Simple: Because you are full of shit and your claims are just lies. Are you a MAGA-cretin?
He needs to tell Trump (Score:1)
because according to Trump America isn't doing that well.
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What, I thought the US was doing "great" and everything was just "excellent" and "beautiful"? Has Trump changed his stance? (Not asking whether Trump had any insights, because that is not going to happen...)
Brexit? (Score:5, Informative)
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I can't stand Musk anymore, but for a good while Grok's answers were significantly better than the ones from the free version of ChatGPT. I haven't tried ChatGPT in a while, so maybe it improved or maybe other LLMs have surpassed Grok. Regardless, I'm not going to let someone's politics prevent me from using the tool that is currently providing
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None of the answers I've received have any noticeable signs of being tainted by politics. However, I only ask fairly objective questions.
At that point, I will purge the last remaining bit of Musk from my life and never look back. Luckily for me, so far none of Grok's response
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What do you think the population of the EU is?
A group of land with over twice as many people as the US has almost 90% of its GDP? Fantastic- keep up the good work
Britain was only about 16% of the EU GDP, so no, Brexit did not reduce the EU's GDP from 90% of the US to 66% of the US. What fucking morons moderated this +5?
If you're European, I think you might be a perfect example of what's causing the effect he's talking about.
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Now show the after tax amounts.
OK, Jamie... (Score:2)
OK, Jamie. But, I wouldn't go around insulting others. Take a look behind you. You see that huge truck barrelling towards you? The one that's going to race past you and rock your ass as it goes by leaves you in a swirling dust cloud? The one with the windshield banner that says CHINA?
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Hah... (Score:5, Interesting)
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And still the largest by far.
Its reduction from 40% in the '60s is expected as the world industrializes. This does not represent the decline of the US, but rather the improvement of the average third-world person.
GDP is not a useful measure (Score:5, Interesting)
Healthcare alone is 18% of US GDP. This is simply a reflection of much higher cost of medical services here vs. Europe, where comparable services with, perhaps, better outcomes are closer to 10% of their GDP. So, just that alone is close to a factor of 2.
This applies to plenty of other areas. US prices of products and services are much higher for the same (or comparables) vs. Europe.
As such, GDP does not reflect the reality of quality of life or level of development of these areas.
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US prices of products and services are much higher for the same (or comparables) vs. Europe.
the US has the 2nd highest median equivalised disposable income (losing only to luxembourg) source [wikipedia.org]
the US also has far and away the highest number of billionaires and millionaires.
americans just have more money than europeans (and on average, larger houses, more cars, etc if that sort of thing matters to you).
europeans (those often online at least, that special breed) claim to not care, but the litany of defensive responses suggests otherwise.
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And by losing (Score:2)
So are you still wonder why Europe was letting the Russians promote Trump so that our economy and country would collapse due to the general incompetence. That seemed like a really bad idea to me.
Watching the value of the American dollar tank made it pretty clear what's going on, Europe is hoping to position themselves as the default currency. Naturally that means they have to compete with China but if they can keep getting Ameri
Anyone can look rich with a big enough credit card (Score:2)
After the Euro became a thing in Greece, the country appeared wildly successful, everyone was clamouring for the high paying government jobs, borrowing like crazy, and "modernizing" by dumping ship building, olive growing, olive processing, etc.
Then the party ended, and they realized it was all a mirage, and not only did they have a debt problem, but that they had not been "investing" in a future.
I truly
Happiness (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: Happiness (Score:2)
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Happiness is a choice.
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You might think that someone went and polled people in places asking them how happy they were- they didn't.
Instead, they came up with a set of ethnocentric measures of happiness and then applied it around the world.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not a stupid person, and just too trusting.
Don't worry EU... (Score:2)
Europe has gone from 90% U.S. GDP to 65% over 10 or 15 years.
Don't worry about that EU, we're working on fixing this for you.
Well, Jamie (Score:2)
That's because Europe doesn't have the taxpayers subsidizing private industry for decades on end. Or who runs begging to the government to protect them from their own incompetence every other year.
Perhaps if private industry paid their own way, you'd change your tune.
Europe is not losing (Score:2)
You, Jamie Dimon, are losing, because Europe doesn't do what you want it to do.
Europe is under no obligation to play the same game as you do.
Losing what? (Score:2)
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Re: Losing what? (Score:2)
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Actually a small fraction of the extremely rich do invest in or create things that a corporation wouldn't. But you can never tell which ones will do that, and they are often rather crazy in other ways.
I can't strike a good balance sheet on this thing. SpaceX required a wealthy backer to even get started. And probably Tesla speeded the development of electric cars by at least 5 years, more probably a decade. Those are really valuable contributions. They don't justify worshiping crazy ideas. But without
Re: Losing what? (Score:2)
The EU doesn't want success (Score:2)
Brussels: "Yay, high taxes"
Ireland: "Hey, I know, if we provide a way around those high taxes, we can get money from Americans"
(Ireland rakes in money)
Brussels: "Hey, you can't do that. We're enforcing a minimum tax!"
Americans: "See ya, bye!"
(money goes away)
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Most of those "Irish" tech companies are extracting money from Europeans and sending it overseas. The government of Ireland might have to re-balance their budget, but the people of Europe will be much better off kicking the foreigners out and creating their own tech platforms.
Besides, America won't even have money in a decade or two. They're busy pissing away their status as the broker of global trade, and the USD's status as world currency.
Macroeconics is not everything (Score:3)
We have the happy people over here. If I need to choose between happiness and money, I'll take happiness any day.
Some countries actually take care of their people. What is it you say? Most of those are in Europe? Gosh.
Besides, the US empire is showing its cracks and its current government is only making things worse. Where are those factories located? Riiiiight. In CHINA. Those factories are things that actually matter. The US economy is mostly made of paper.
How are US foreign relations currently? Ooohhh... not good, you say? I wonder what the current USD value is because of your clown in chief... Not good, I take it.
LOL - what a jerk... (Score:2)
This extra GDP mainly goes to pockets of billionaires and welthy CEOs. No surprise he likes it...
1. If what is Trump is doing is "winning" - sorry, I prefer to be a loser...
2. Europe population is older and declining - calculate it per working age person and the difference is smaller
3. Take into account in Europe we work less, live longer and have more time for family
4. In Europe we have universal healthcare, free education and much healthier food.
Sure - top 10% in the US enjoys much higher standard but th
US GDP ginned up by borrowing and adding to debt (Score:3)
Eurozone debt-to-GDP ration 88%
USA debt-to-GDP ratio 121% set to exceed 125% and continue skyward after recent bill passage
Seems like US is just borrowing our way to higher GDP (via consumption, gov spending, etc) . Soooo many problems with this course of action, at least for those of us who expect to be alive for the next 10 years. I for one am personal-finance spooked about the combined effects of tariffs, Powell being replaced by a presidential sycophant, and the explosion of more debt, raised debt ceiling, interest payments approaching 50% of the budget, etc.
Firing 1000 state department employees, drop kicking PBS, even tariff 'income' none of that rates a percentage point on the budget imbalance. I can see why Musk got pissed off. He took crazy political heat for his (reckless) DOGE...only to see it swamped by a crazy lopsided budget. But honestly, the number of 'smart' people who the president has run off the road is so high there is no excuse for anyone to complain.
Europe is dying. The Muslims control major areas (Score:1)
https://pjmedia.com/catherines... [pjmedia.com]
Hamas Co-Founder’s Son Warns That Muslims Will Make Europe ‘Rubble’
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Well, Europe looks a lot less rubbly than it did in 1945. America is now full steam ahead trying to imitate that chapter of European history.
I'd rather deal with Hamas, at least it's an external enemy.
What US does is go into debt to buy cryptos &s (Score:1)
.. speculative financial instruments such as AI stocks. No other countries does it as much as the US. Absolute amount of money corrupts absolutely and with its ruling by SCOTUS, it becomes absolute speech, drowning out the rights of the people.
The percentage of gross public debt for the US is at 121% of GDP and rising quickly. For the EU, it has been flat at 82%.
is this the same guy who.... (Score:1)
No funny here (Score:2)
As expected all too sadly.
Re: You elected Trump (Score:2)
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USA MAGAt, have fun dying from diseases because you can't get vaccines, being homeless because medical bills took your house, being killed in a flash flood or tornado because local government needed permission to tell you the truth, burying your children because another school-shooting happened, being poisoned by contaminated milk, water or meat.
Remember, the USA is 40% migrants (if one excludes most white people), so that stabbing and raping is happening in your country too: Good luck with that.
Dimon has less credibility than AC (Score:2)
But you, Mr Dollar Ton, propagated the AC brain fart into visibility and propagated its trollacious Subject. Your comment also seems confusing, almost incoherent, but that's probably the natural result of responding to whatever the ACs mumbled...
The joke I was hoping for? So many possibilities. So little humor on Slashdot these years.
Hey, it's my fault, too. My unfunny thought is "Any complicated system that becomes too fixated on one dimension will implode along that dimension." I dare you to laugh at that
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What is "trollacious" about the subject, shanen?
It is a statement of fact.
I know that in trumpistan facts are no longer liked, but it is what it is, you elected trump.
twice.
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There is no such vector, Victor. Besides, Orban is about to lose.
That island isn't Europe, it is Airstrip One, in a firm "special" relationship with trumpistan.
France may have flirted, but Le Pen is still not marching ICE thugs to arrest French citizens.
The AfD in Germany is an Eastern German artifact, the grandchildren of Honecker's cadres. They've hit the ceiling and will stay there or lose.
Stupidity is there, but in Europe the majority doesn't worship it like that in some other territories.
Most importantly, wild, ignorant and aggressive religiosity isn't a thing in Europe, which makes it a much more pleasant place to be.
And now needs to be quoted for the censor troll mods.
Re: You elected Trump (Score:2)
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except for all the eastern orthodox.
Tell me more, I'm genuinely interested to hear about it. Where does orthodox have influence over government in the same way that fundamentalist evangelists fuck up people's lives in the land of Saint Reagan?