
After 30 Years, You Can Buy a New 'Commodore 64 Ultimate' for $299 (fastcompany.com) 85
"Commodore has returned from a parallel timeline where tech stayed optimistic, inviting, and human," explains the official web site for "the first real Commodore computer in over 30 years..." You can check out an ad for it here. "Not an emulator. Not a PC... Powered by a FPGA recreation of the original motherboard, wrapped in glowing game-reactive LEDs (or classic beige of course)."
Fast Company calls it "a $299 device that its makers claim is compatible with over 10,000 retro games, cartridges, and peripherals." In a YouTube video posted last month, "Peri Fractic" said he'd purchased the company for "a low seven-figure sum," and said he'd recruited several former Commodore employees to help relaunch the brand. The new C64s are expected to begin shipping as early as October, though that date could slip... There are three models to choose from, all with the same internal components. If you were expecting a vastly outdated machine, however, you're in for a surprise. The Commodore 64 Ultimate will include 128 megabytes of RAM and 16 megabytes of flash memory. It connects to modern monitors via HDMI in high-definition 1080p resolution and features three USB-A ports and one USB-C port. Beyond the computer itself, the power source, and HDMI cable, your $299 also gets you a spiral-bound user guide, a 64-gigabyte USB drive featuring over 50 licensed games, a quick-start guide, and stickers.
Aesthetically, the Commodore 64 Ultimate is available in the original beige or in premium variants: the Starlight Edition, with a clear case and LED lights ($249), or the Founder's Edition, which includes 24-karat gold-plated badges, satin gold keys, and a translucent amber case ($499). Just 6,400 units of the Founder's Edition will be produced, according to the company. The preorder setup resembles a Kickstarter campaign, though it doesn't use that platform. Commodore says all preorders come with a money-back guarantee, but it chose to skip the service's fees. Buyers should be aware that accounts are charged at the time of preorder...
The product will come with a one-year limited warranty, and Commodore says most parts are already in production, including the updated motherboard, the case, and the keycaps that recreate the blocky keys that early users remember.
Fast Company calls it "a $299 device that its makers claim is compatible with over 10,000 retro games, cartridges, and peripherals." In a YouTube video posted last month, "Peri Fractic" said he'd purchased the company for "a low seven-figure sum," and said he'd recruited several former Commodore employees to help relaunch the brand. The new C64s are expected to begin shipping as early as October, though that date could slip... There are three models to choose from, all with the same internal components. If you were expecting a vastly outdated machine, however, you're in for a surprise. The Commodore 64 Ultimate will include 128 megabytes of RAM and 16 megabytes of flash memory. It connects to modern monitors via HDMI in high-definition 1080p resolution and features three USB-A ports and one USB-C port. Beyond the computer itself, the power source, and HDMI cable, your $299 also gets you a spiral-bound user guide, a 64-gigabyte USB drive featuring over 50 licensed games, a quick-start guide, and stickers.
Aesthetically, the Commodore 64 Ultimate is available in the original beige or in premium variants: the Starlight Edition, with a clear case and LED lights ($249), or the Founder's Edition, which includes 24-karat gold-plated badges, satin gold keys, and a translucent amber case ($499). Just 6,400 units of the Founder's Edition will be produced, according to the company. The preorder setup resembles a Kickstarter campaign, though it doesn't use that platform. Commodore says all preorders come with a money-back guarantee, but it chose to skip the service's fees. Buyers should be aware that accounts are charged at the time of preorder...
The product will come with a one-year limited warranty, and Commodore says most parts are already in production, including the updated motherboard, the case, and the keycaps that recreate the blocky keys that early users remember.
Re:You can buy a modern laptop for $299.00 (Score:5, Insightful)
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There are still some shops that use C64. They might be interested also:
https://www.pcgamer.com/hardwa... [pcgamer.com]
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Come on, the Amiga was very clearly ahead of x86.
But gaming was not where the money was. Companies bought PCs because you couldn't game on them. The inferiority was the point.
It took ages until could even play audio on a PC.
Re: You can buy a modern laptop for $299.00 (Score:4, Insightful)
The Amiga was a dead end. It was awesome for its time and I owned many of them, but the cool stuff you could do with the OS was in many cases predicated on a lack of memory protection and this was also a major drawback. It was good that you could reboot quickly, because it was frequently necessary. The custom chips were however death to backwards compatibility, and the more they were used, the harder it was to update existing software for a new chipset.
PCs started to do the things Amiga did even at the time, for example there were accelerated graphics cards even for Windows 3.1 that would accelerate drawing operations and do bitblits, and the GUS Max would offload some audio processing from the CPU.
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You've missed the point entirely. It's nor a question of price. A "modern" laptop, whether it costs $299, $2,999, or $29,999, is a piece of crap compared to a Commodore-64. For starters, a C64 isn't going to waste your time downloading automatic updates without your consent or permission. The frequency of "screens of death" (blue or othewise) will be near zero by comparison. At this point, almost any technology product that isn't labeled "modern" is going to be superior to one that carries that moniker
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I never touched a C64 and started on a Apple II clone. Crashing into the monitor did happen and being confronted by a disassembly listing to many was similar to a screen of death.
At $299 it *is* a great deal (Score:5, Interesting)
People who have never been into a niche hobby don't understand how much it costs to manufacture something in low quantities.
The Commodore 64 Ultimate consists of several components that on their own used to cost more to buy separately and put together. With all the attention that the reformed Commodore is getting, I assume that they must be expecting more orders to come in -- and that that could get the total price down.
Just a separate motherboard [ultimate64.com] costs $299.
Then add a new reproduction injection-moulded plastic case [retrofuzion.com]. Even the metal moulds for a small part can cost tens of thousands of dollars to have made to exact tolerances, not to mention the injection-moulding machine it is put into. Plastic is cost-effective only when you use the mould to cast many parts.
Then, unlike the original or the emulation box [retrogames.biz] that came out a few years ago, this new Commodore 64 has a mechanical keyboard. OK, the actual keyboard is actually new and with N-key rollover and LED backlighting, but replacement keyboards for the Commodore 64 have been made multiple times by several enthusiasts.
And BTW, this is FPGA-based. Not an emulator running on an ARM-based SBC.
There is therefore no joystick input delay, and it works with original joysticks and other peripherrals.
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People who have never been into a niche hobby don't understand how much it costs to manufacture something in low quantities.
Pretty much any hobby means something that is gonna suck the life out of your bank account. Heck, even TurboTax asks "Are you absolutely sure?" if somehow your hobby actually produced income.
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Even the metal moulds for a small part can cost tens of thousands of dollars to have made to exact tolerances, not to mention the injection-moulding machine it is put into.
I don't think the moulds are an issue as unless I'm mistaken they are still around and making new cases whether this company has them or not is the issue. I could be mistaken as I'm not a C64 fan, I skipped by it to the PC.
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Clearly a lot of people here are unfamiliar with the retrocomputing scene; I'm most familiar with David Murray (The 8-bit guy) and his Commander X16 project which is essentially "what if we made a C64-era computer with modern ease of use?"
These aren't just nostalgia-bait, as those early 8-bit and 16-bit systems were a time when an interested hobbyist could pretty well understand *everything* going on with the system. Thus, there's a use as educational devices (much as a Raspberry Pi is a scaled down 'modern
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> There is therefore no joystick input delay
But there is HDMI output delay, which has the same effect.
You really want an old school CRT TV for a proper "immediate" (one frame) effect.
Re: At $299 it *is* a great deal (Score:3)
Apparently the new machine also supports output to CRT. Heck, it even supports hooking up your old cartridges, tape drive, floppy drives and printers.
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The HDMI output delay of a properly implemented FPGA machine is under one scanline. It's barely possible to measure. And a gaming monitor will display the received scanline immediately, also with under a scanline of delay.
Thus, the total added delay can be kept under two scanlines.
Re: At $299 it *is* a great deal (Score:3)
It's also just Gideon's ultimate64 with official branding. If you've been into C64 retro hardware, you know about Gideon. He also made the Ultimate II+ cartridge, which I currently have plugged in to my original C64. Very sweet hardware emulation of disk drives, cartridges and (impossible to get, expensive as hell) period authentic ram expansion units.
Re:You can buy a modern laptop for $299.00 (Score:4, Insightful)
No.. A C64 at this point is specialty hardware in low supply and thus more valuable than some generic laptop. Put it this way: You see broken C64s sold "for parts" at more than $100 these days, and very old used C64s in working condition sell for $200 to $400.
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Considering you can pretty much take any low-end hardware and emulate a C64, or any other 8 bit system, probably the only real challenge is the keyboard. Ironically a suitable mechanical keyboard is by far the most expensive item, with the price ranging from $100-$200.
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Considering you can pretty much take any low-end hardware and emulate a C64
Perhaps, but the C64 Ultimate is not an emulator. It's a FPGA-based recreation of the hardware.
Which could make the result is better or truer. Emulators are usually good enough for most purposes, but are also imperfect.
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I've bought a "modern laptop" for $299, for my mother-in-law who didn't use computers until she was about 60.
An "HP Stream 14" or some such. CPU was something Celeron-like, 4GB RAM, Windows in "S mode" (unlocked to run the real thing easily enough)
Took far longer to do anything than the C64 my parents got back in the 1980s.
Beige? (Score:2)
Re:Beige? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Beige? (Score:2)
Yyeeeechhhh...
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My Commodore 16 is black.
Is this an ad? (Score:2)
Commodore 64 Ultimate will include 128 megabytes of RAM and 16 megabytes of flash memory. It connects to modern monitors via HDMI in high-definition 1080p resolution and features three USB-A ports and one USB-C port.
Why would you need any of that for a commodore 64? It was released in 1982. The original had 64kb of ram.
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Even in the 1980s there was a lot of talk about RAM expansions for the C64, And of course some of the C64 software may require RAM expansions. Or it's just much more convenient to have 100 meg than to have 64K; that's for sure.
Re: Is this an ad? (Score:3)
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I put a couple of jet engines on my toyota tercel. It is more convenient for me to get to the corner store in 2.2 seconds.
Jet engines will be finicky as a daily driver. A small block V8 is probably a much more practical project.
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Re: Is this an ad? (Score:1)
It's critically important to inject Trump into every conversation with you people, isn't it?
Just the rent free time he lives in your head is half the pleasure of having him president.
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Does that make you a child molestor? Do you want to fuck underage kids because your dear leader gets to?
Re: Is this an ad? (Score:2)
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Perhaps most people only wrote for the c64, But I would suggest that C64 enthusiasts of today would most likely be pleased not to be restricted to the base 64 and potentially have other capabilities from that FPGA, such as potentially? having all the memory expansions available that were possible under the original hardware including the 256kb REU expansion and the geoRam the expansions that had been made for use with the GEOS 8bit Operating System, Etc.
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Or more likely, trying to source smaller memory chips would cost more. And as C64 already uses bank switching, there's no reason to not allow switching to more banks. Like, C128 shipped with 128KB, could be easily extended to 256KB, and its CPU could handle up to 640KB.
As 128MB = 32768 4KB pages or 65536 2KB pages (I don't know the granularity of the I/O port used for bank switching), I suspect this limit is due to bank numbers not the memory chips' size.
And the fun thing being, original software that was
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Or more likely, trying to source smaller memory chips would cost more
I'm rather thinking they would have more then C64 functionality in mind for the board, otherwise they could have just implemented an ASIC. Also; the original Commodore 64 did not have WiFi, or a LAN port, or USB ports, but this board has all those things.
The whole point of a FPGA chip is that it is programmable. And presumably hackers will want to do cool things with it if possible. Also there should be some memory overhead for lo
To store the diskette images (Score:2)
Commodore 64 Ultimate will include 128 megabytes of RAM and 16 megabytes of flash memory. It connects to modern monitors via HDMI in high-definition 1080p resolution and features three USB-A ports and one USB-C port.
Why would you need any of that for a commodore 64? It was released in 1982. The original had 64kb of ram.
To store the diskette images
Re: Is this an ad? (Score:2)
Back in the day some software, probably GeOS being one of them, could use ram expansion. Some games, like the port of Sonic requires expanded RAM.
Cost basis (Score:5, Informative)
For comparison, C64 was released at $595 in 1982 and later came down to $250 the next year https://americanhistory.si.edu... [si.edu] which are $1,988.85 and $809.64 in today's dollars.
Re: Cost basis (Score:2)
The Commodore 64 was ahead of its time... (Score:2)
The Commodore 64 was ahead of its time in having capabilities in the 1980s like the SID chip for complex sound than other home computers.
Many coders/software engineers/programmers cut their teeth on the Commodore64. When I bought an external mechanical keyboard, it reminded me of the Commodore 64.
For nostalgia value this new one at $299.00 is interesting, although better late than never. :) I'm waiting for a retro TRS-80 or Coleco Adam myself.
JoshK.
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For some reason there were very few Commodore 64s in my area when I was a kid. Most of us had TRS-80 CoCos with a few TI994/As added in for good measure. In 1984 my high school introduced their first computer class and it was filled with 20 Commodore 64s, ugh. They were clunky beasts and the damn diskette drives were slower than my CoCo's tape drive. Now, if someone were to offer a Tandy CoCo3 today with modern amenities (yes, I realize the CoCo SDC exists among other modern add-ons) I would be interested.
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The Commodore64 was awesome yet, when it failed, it failed big time. I remember playing video games on a friend's TI/94a. In high school we got some donation, I think was ex-Army stuff, and it was T/94a. I spent more time coding than doing the electronics stuff. I remember a friend and I tried to get a disk drive working.
Once a friend got "Flight Simulator" for the Commodore64, and it never loaded. We got a new copy, and still wouldn't load. Then I was reading something and the command was like LOAD "file",
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Of all the computers from that era I would have to say the TI994/A was the best. First, it was really a 16bit computer and supported true sprites. A friend and I spent a weekend programming our custom BattleZone on his TI994/A and it came out amazing (in our eyes at least). We did it in TI Basic! On my CoCo I would have had to dust off EDTASM to get similar results. Yeah, the was you had to load disks on the Commodore was fantastically horrible. As far as universal BASIC goes; most of the 8 bit computers fr
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I liked the TI-99/4a, I remember some of the cartridges, and the games. I remember doing "pair programming" as my friend would enter the code, and the Compute! magazine checksum would match. I loathed DATA statements all the numbers that did not make sense. :)
Oh yes QB64. I recently did some rewrites of some QBASIC for a colleague, his son is interested in programming, but I suggested going "retro" and play some of the QB64 games like Gorillas, and Sort Demo. I found some old IBM BASICA games, and one that
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While QB64 is 99.9% compatible with old GWBASIC and QuickBASIC code, it's real power lies in the slew of new commands added to take advantage of today's modern processors. A good tutorial highlighting the new commands can be found here: https://www.qb64tutorial.com/ [qb64tutorial.com]
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I was at an electronics scrap shop in Las Cruces, NM a couple of months ago, and among the many amazing things I saw were some TRS-80s, including some Model 3s. I would imagine that they would need some capacitor replacements on the motherboards, considering their age, but that's a guess.
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I had a friend in high school who had a TRS-80, and he was alot better coder. We'd often figure out how to rewrite the BASIC programs from Compute! magazine to work on his computer. Another awesome computer, that had a notorious nickname, the "Trash-80" but yet, Tandy put out alot of BASIC programs, and other stuff. I remember doing an text adventure, it was easier to write in BASIC on the TRS-80 than at the time, my VIC-20. :) Also my friend had a Compuserve account in the 80's that was a close to Interne
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My mind was blown when I got the HESMON assembly coding cartridge. You could actually scroll up and down through the code, without commands like "LIST 10-1000"!
It wasn't easy learning how everything worked, but it gave me a foundation on which I built my entire career.
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Indeed, I learned assembly for the 6502, but at first in college my direction was hardware, but half-way through my EE curriculum I realized I liked software... :) I remember doing some assembly using POKE and PEEK, like to turn on the datasette (remember those, the data tape cassettes? :-)) to load, and play an AC/DC song for a computer game I did. Yes Commodore 64 was ahead of its time in many features, and how many software developers got into coding. :)
JoshK.
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Yes, I remember the data tape cassettes, that is *not* one of my fond memories. I had to save the same thing on multiple cassettes, hoping that the result would be readable on at least one of them. The unreliable cassette interface was the reason I bought the $300 floppy drive.
Unfortunately, my machine went up in smoke, literally. I came to my desk one day to find smoke rising from the keyboard. It never worked again.
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Re: The Commodore 64 was ahead of its time... (Score:3)
The originally floppy drive was notorious for breaking down, in between trips to the repair show I backed up things to tape. I did have a tape drive with signal meter and tuning knob, though.
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I spent the $300 or $400 to buy a disk drive, and it was twitchy at best. I remember some computer games that required you to "swap" the 5.25" floppy disks, if you didn't get it just right, you'd get a read error. But the datasette on the Commodore 64 was well it worked or it didn't. :)
JoshK.
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I had the same problem, I switched on my Commodore 64 and the screen was...well I could tell something had happened but not what. I read later that Commodore 64's had a high failure rate. I sent it to a computer store, a high school friend handled it...but when I fell out with this friend, well the computer was gone. :( Then I moved up to Atari 800 XL :)
JoshK.
Let me fix that for you (Score:2)
"...with a clear case and LED lights ($349)..."
And my friends laughed ... (Score:3, Funny)
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u can get it online
For some references, I still find physical works better. Kindle Paperwhite, iPad, Laptop screen, ... physical paper book. All have their times and places.
Using an FPGA is something I guess (Score:2)
Since there are already FPGA based C64/C128 boards including one already called Ultimate 64, I wonder if this is jus
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128MB of RAM?? (Score:3)
The CPU in the original Commodore 64 was a MOS Technologies 6510 which could address at most 64K of RAM. So how do you use all this extra RAM? Bank-switching tricks? Or a new mode that's not completely faithful to the old CPU?
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It's time to learn about the REU [wikipedia.org]!
Ports? (Score:2)
What ports does this new model have compared to the original? Joystick, serial, cartridge port, cassette, user port etc?
Re: Ports? (Score:2)
All of them! except the user port is just a header on the board, commodore sells an adapter if you want to converter the header into an authentic user port.
Atari (Score:2)
Heroes. (Score:1)
That commercial made me cry like a baby.
Does it still have the original BASIC? (Score:2)
Cloanto owns the roms (Score:2)
Don't they?
Why are we trying to do this again? (Score:2)
Serious question.
Why?
Every time this happens, the people doing it pretend it's the first time this has happened in the last x number of years since the c64's release.
Although, this is the first time a project doing it has filled their entire site with unedited slop. Doesn't make me feel great about the process here.
Things I want from a project like this:
- Technical specifications and circuit board porn.
- Operating system details
- Wifi available, you say? Tell me more about the networking stack!
What exactly
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Serious question. Why?
Every time this happens, the people doing it pretend it's the first time this has happened in the last x number of years since the c64's release.
Why? They are fans of the 64. They and other fans want something that IS a C64 (to varying degrees of "is" of course)
Has it been done before? More or less but not by FANS as it is this time (to my knowledge anyhow)
Myself I skipped these and other early machines and went straight to a PC so I am not a fan and have limited knowledge of the machines.