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The Military

Kill Russian Soldiers, Win Points: Is Ukraine's New Drone Scheme Gamifying War? (bbc.com) 220

Posted by EditorDavid from the call-of-duty dept.
ABC News reports that Ukrainian drones struck Moscow last night — over 100 of them — closing all four of Moscow's international airports and diverting at least 134 planes. And Ukrainian commanders estimate that drones now account for 70% of all Russian deaths and injuries, according to the BBC — which means attacks on the front line are filmed, logged, and counted.

"And now put to use too, as the Ukrainian military tries to extract every advantage it can against its much more powerful opponent." Under a scheme first trialled last year and dubbed "Army of Drones: Bonus" (also known as "e-points"), units can earn points for each Russian soldier killed or piece of equipment destroyed. And like a killstreak in Call of Duty, or a 1970s TV game show, points mean prizes [described later as "extra equipment."]

"The more strategically important and large-scale the target, the more points a unit receives," reads a statement from the team at Brave 1, which brings together experts from government and the military. "For example, destroying an enemy multiple rocket launch system earns up to 50 points; 40 points are awarded for a destroyed tank and 20 for a damaged one."

Call it the gamification of war.
The article concludes that the e-points scheme "is typical of the way Ukraine has fought this war: creative, out-of-the-box thinking designed to make the most of the country's innovative skills and minimise the effect of its numerical disadvantage."

And "It turns out that encouraging a Russian soldier to surrender is worth more points than killing one," the article notes — up to 10x more, since "a prisoner of war can always be used in future deals over prisoner exchanges."

Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.

Kill Russian Soldiers, Win Points: Is Ukraine's New Drone Scheme Gamifying War? More | Reply

Kill Russian Soldiers, Win Points: Is Ukraine's New Drone Scheme Gamifying War?

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  • I remember what I was relieved... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ndsurvivor ( 891239 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:39PM (#65533020)
    I was relieved when, back around 1997, Ukraine gave up their Nuclear weapons. They agreed to be a peaceful, and decent nation. America agreed to defend them in the case of a Russian invasion. Russia crossed the Ukrainian lines, Ukraine did not invade Russia. Mushy brains seem to mix up this fact.

    • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ndsurvivor ( 891239 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:48PM (#65533034)
      I think Russians are stupid. They "vote" for, and lick the ass of a Dictator that sends them out to be cannon fodder. Russia is a Huge, under-populated land mass, with vast natural resources, and if you had the right leader, then you could be the Richest of the Rich in the world, without having to be constantly at war. That is what a Dictator gives you, being constantly at war.

      • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:4, Funny)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:59PM (#65533058)

        But he says things I agree with!

        • I guess that MAGA and Putin hate gays, and trans. They are just the Jews in the NAZI era in my humble opinion. A small, minority group to hate. They say the word: "Woke", and all MAGA's salivate, and they hate.

          • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:5, Informative)

            by test321 ( 8891681 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:24PM (#65533110)

            First thing Nazis did in 1933 was prohibit (gay) sex research, remove written publications, target transvestites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            • Their GDP dropped. They hurt themselves. Bad. Now their country bans any NAZI talk. They got their asses kicked real good. The best form of government, I think, is an inclusive government, including gays, bi, trans, black, white, and yes even MAGAs. Inclusive should be the rule. MAGAs are in power now, and they hate the "others". I do not think that will stand in the span of history, but it lives in the moment.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gweihir ( 88907 )

            It is always easy to find tons of pathetic losers that are willing to (fake) elevate themselves by looking down on some other group. Too many people are crap like that.

      • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LainTouko ( 926420 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:48PM (#65533172)
        They're not stupid, they've grown up in an environment where obeying authority is an excellent survival tactic. And what they vote for is irrelevant since regional administrators understand the consequences if they don't report a healthy majority for Putin. "Russia" is in fact essentially the last remaining European colonial empire, the rule over a vast area by Moscow (and St. Petersburg to a degree), most of the empire is plundered and has no say in the matter, and the core enjoys the fruits of that plundering so is unwilling to change. (The conscripts Moscow throws at Ukraine are almost all from ethnic minorities.) Not too different from the middle class in the West.
        • It seems to me that the middle class has a right to an opinion, before Musk took over Twitter, and stupid MAGAs voted Trump into office. That is a difference between America and Russia.

      • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @05:41PM (#65533298)
        Yes, Americans would never vote for a dictator. And even if they do, there is Congress that reigns in the worst ideas. Oh wait...

      • There is a reason Russia is sparsely populated. About 70% of the country is north of the 49th parallel, which is the latitude that forms the northern border of the US. Canada, too, is sparsely populated, for the same reason: it's *cold*!

        • I was raised in Minnesota, a very densely populated state. There really is many interesting to do around all four seasons. Swimming in the spring, exploring in the summer, feeling awe at nature when the color of leaves change and fall off of the leaves, and in the winter the fun can start with snowmobiles, or skiing, or just grabbing a piece of cardboard and sliding down a hill. Now, living in Texas, I think all year is basically the same, there is hot, and less hot.

          • Re:I remember what I was relieved... (Score:4, Informative)

            by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @07:13PM (#65533496) Homepage

            First, Minnesota is south of the 49th parallel.
            Second, your idea of "densely populated" seems interesting. My city, Houston, has more people than the entire state of Minnesota.
            Texas has four such huge cities, giving it a population about 70% of the entire country of Canada, though Canada has more land area than the US. And yet, Texas has vast areas where almost nobody lives, since 70% of the population lives in 10% of the land area. It's hard to claim that even Texas is "densely populated."
            I guess it's a matter of perspective.

            • I live in Austin. It is difficult for a person like me to believe that there is not much density. I look outside my door and "see" at least 8 different families. However, I know, we humans tend to stick together, and there are vast amounts of land out there still uninhabited. I think that you have a good point. Still, I think Russia could be very strong and Prosperous if it was not in control of a stupid Dictator. Hell, me, an insignificant American, could run Russia and make nearly every person th

              • Yep, agreed. Here in the US, we are now in great danger of falling into the same trap the Russians fell into. It's not as unthinkable as we might imagine.

                • I have Hispanic neighbors. Last night, I sat outside on the ground while they were around me. They gave me food and a beer. I think it was a good night. I do not like the idea that MAGAs can wear a mask, grab them off of the street, and send them somewhere in Africa with no Judge, no Jury. If that can happen to them, and I do not like it, then it can happen to me for just typing what I am saying. Dictators Suck, and in my humble opinion, Trump is a Dictator.

    • There's more to be relieved about. The US accepted weapons grade fissionables and exchanged it at 1 to 7 for reactor grade. At the time, the mushy brains yelled and screamed that the US was "Giving away Uranium!". To be fair, the reporting that got them screaming did not mention the fact it involved trading in weapons grade (stuff that goes boom) for reactor grade (stuff that hums). Of course the wingnut media didn't report that - it wouldn't make their base scream in horror.

      • It was a small moment in history, that few people seem to remember, but Ukraine was a Nuclear Bomb Powerhouse. They agreed to give it up, they did. Otherwise, Moscow may be a crater today. I prefer peace. Ukraine also prefers peace. I think all Americans should back Ukraine. I do not understand the MAGA thinking, that somehow Ukraine invaded Russia.??

        • I do not understand the MAGA thinking, that somehow Ukraine invaded Russia.??

          The powerful propaganda machine known as Fox feeds them a steady diet of fear and dopamine all day. All the other networks are talking about Epstein and Fox is harping on about Biden.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          I do not understand the MAGA thinking, that somehow Ukraine invaded Russia.??

          There is no MAGA "thinking". They just parrot whatever their great Führer tells them to think.

        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          by RossCWilliams ( 5513152 )

          , but Ukraine was a Nuclear Bomb Powerhouse.

          Ukraine never had control of any nuclear weapons any more than Belgium has control of the US weapons stationed there. The weapons Ukraine "gave up" were stationed there by the Soviet Union and under the inherited control of the Russian military after the breakup of the Soviet Union. There were assurances made to Ukraine for its security. But Russia would have considered protecting Ukraine's neutrality and keeping it secure from becoming a western proxy part of that promise.

          Ukraine also prefers peace. I think all Americans should back Ukraine. I do not understand the MAGA thinking, that somehow Ukraine invaded Russia.??

          That ignores the actual history. T

          • >> What the war has demonstrated is the real threat Ukraine joining NATO posed to Russian security interests.

            No it didn't.

            • >> What the war has demonstrated is the real threat Ukraine joining NATO posed to Russian security interests. No it didn't.

              You might not consider the ability to attack their cities and nuclear deterrent a security threat. Have you heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis?

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by znrt ( 2424692 )

            That ignores the actual history. The current government of Ukraine overthrew its elected government.

            that's not correct. the current government (zelensky, now long overdue but still in power because of martial law, extended every 90 days) was elected and won in a landslide with the promise to end the civil war and foster good relations with russia. it replaced the government of poroshenko (pro west) which was also elected by a very tiny margin with the promise to shelve the nato issue because of lack of popular support. poroshenko replaced the shortlived puppet government (turchynov) installed by the us de

            • he current government (zelensky, now long overdue but still in power because of martial law, extended every 90 days) was elected

              Right. After a third of the country had seceded. The last election that included all of Ukraine was over a decade ago.

              direct, open russian military involvement started in 2022

              Not exactly, you are forgetting Crimea. But there clearly were Russians involved all along in the war in Donbas, albeit not flying the Russian flag.

              Your basic point is correct. Russia did not pick up one day and suddenly decide to invade Ukraine. There was a long series of factors that lead to that decision. And its objectives at the start were likely far more limited than the current war's

    • in deathrace 2000 you get lots of points for killing french

      • Ironically, the French are the ones who are backing Ukraine the most. They do not want another NAZI like Hitler invader going into Europe like Putin is. Ironically, the Americans, my Country, is burring our heads into the sand and pretending that nothing is happening. We are covering our ears and going: "no no no no".

        • You donâ(TM)t write like an American, and your capitalisation reminds me of certain other languages. Where were you born or emigrate from?

        • the French are the ones who are backing Ukraine the most.

          They were the ones rhetorically backing Poland the most in World War II, to similar effect. Poland would have been better off allying themselves with the Soviet Union against the Nazi's. But they actually refused to allow Soviet troops to cross Poland to defend Czechoslovakia. Then took a little piece of it as their reward from Germany.

          Of course they didn't keep that that little piece of Czechoslovakia for very long. About as long as Ukraine and Belarus held on to their little piece of Poland they got as

    • Russia also agreed to defend them. At the time, the concept of a "Russian invasion" was not on the cards at all. There was a general lack of understanding of how imperialism works.
      • I call it an Oligarchy. I see Russia as an Oligarchy on steroids. Trump wants America to be an oligarchy, in my humble opinion. I hope he loses big.

        • The Soviet Union was an oligarchy. The Russian Federation devolved into a plutocracy. Not the same thing.

          Though with Putin slowly robbing his allies or killing/imprisoning them, it's further devolving into a dictatorship.

    • When Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, America or other signatories of the memorandum did not take the responsibility to defend Ukraine. I don't know why this myth is still being repeated.

    • I was relieved when, back around 1997, Ukraine gave up their Nuclear weapons. They agreed to be a peaceful, and decent nation

      It wasn't about Ukraine being a peaceful nation. It was about Ukraine selling basically every weapon in their inventory [youtube.com]. No one wanted the nuclear weapons to end up in the hands of terrorists. Russia did a better job of securing weapons than Ukraine.

      America agreed to defend them in the case of a Russian invasion

      The Budapest Memorandum was way too optimistic. It said the problem would be resolved in the UN.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by reanjr ( 588767 )

      Lesson to Iran. Have nukes.

  • War is hell (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Iamthecheese ( 1264298 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @03:56PM (#65533050)
    Does it matter whether they're doing it for medals, points or just their paycheck? Should soldiers never want to kill the enemy? This is war. People die. You TRY to kill people, that's how you accomplish your goals. Yes, it's horrific. What do you expect, bouquet-making contests?

    • This is propaganda designed to make Ukraine look bad. Oh they’re making a game over poor Russian soldiers invading a sovereign country.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by znrt ( 2424692 )

      Does it matter whether they're doing it for medals, points or just their paycheck?

      it's not unusual for soldiers to get bonuses for confirmed high value targets, "gamification" is just a convoluted way to do this. ofc to cash in you have to be alive for the next payout cycle.

      otoh, war is just another way of doing politics, which is just another way of doing business.

    • Re: War is hell (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Old Man Kensey ( 5209 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:13PM (#65533092) Homepage
      "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -- attributed to George S. Patton
    • My concern is that this gamification may not consider target priority. Anyone who has played a team-based objective shooter knows the frustration of teammates completely ignoring the objective to focus on stat-farming. In this case, you could have awesome stats getting kills far behind the front lines while your own soldiers are getting shredded. I hope they've considered this and have ways of keeping their drone operators focused on the objectives.
    • Spot on. The idea has been around forever. What was a flying ace as just one example. Someone good at shooting down the enemy. And as you point out, medals have been around forever too. I'm just glad Ukraine has found a method to bring it to Moscow. War is easy when it is not in your front yard. Now maybe Russians might start knowing the fear of an air raid siren.

  • Am I supposed to be outraged? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It’s a fucking war. The object is to kill. That’s more offensive to me than offering meaningless points. Oh and congrats on getting this Ukraine=bad propaganda piece posted.

    More distractions from Epstein.

    • I find the Epstein thing humorous. The MAGA conspiracy machine is eating itself. Somehow, Trump is blaming Biden, and Democrats!! lol. As far as the war goes, I find that motivated, free people tend to win. My $$ is on the Ukrainians.
      • Don't forget: the list is a Democrat hoax made by Biden that actually doesn't exist, but it's also on Pam Bondi's desk.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by ndsurvivor ( 891239 )
          Pam Bondi? The blonde bimbo who probably sucked Trumps dick in order to be the FBI Director? That Pam Bondi? *i should be banned for posting this* She has no qualifications. She is an idiot.

          • She has no qualifications. She is an idiot.

            These two properties are not (always) related.

          • DEI hire Pam Bondi.

          • I thought Kash Patel was the Fbi director?

            • It looks like a bunch of clowns to me. When I get to retirement age, I just hope that I can fill out a webpage, or make a phone call, and get my benefits. As it looks now, there are a bunch of stupid people who say: "Biden Biden Biden" over and over again and they can not tie their shoes, nor pick their nose.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Motivated people with lots of external support tend to win. Remember Vietnam. (I suppose one could reasonably argue that the North Vietnamese were freer than the South Vietnamese, but that's not the opinion the US press ever had.)

        • I try to communicate with MAGAs, and they always just call me a name, and think that they "owned" me. I can not understand that at all. As far as Vietnam goes, I think they are doing well now. I have an embarrassing lack of knowledge of their history, but I think their women look beautiful.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by znrt ( 2424692 )

      Oh and congrats on getting this Ukraine=bad propaganda piece posted.

      wait a sec. are you really saying that the bbc (no less) is spreading anti ukraine propaganda now? https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]

      please hit me on the head with a dead fish, i must be hallucinating. they had been barely starting to very subtly question zelensky and hinting at the remote possibility that maybe, just maybe, they lost this (part of the) war ...

      btw, i'm somehow very happy that you have no fucking clue about what fucking wars are all about. on the other hand, that's also quite sad.

  • Flawed moral axiom (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nichogenius1 ( 9413819 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:18PM (#65533102)
    Why is the idea that "gamifying war" is bad? What consitutes a game? If the answer is simply competition and strategy, then war is already a game and always has been. If a game has a requirement of something you do for pleasure, enjoyment, or recreation - well nobody is playing this game because it's fun. Now I'm sure some aspects are more fun than others, but you would be hard pressed to find a soldier on the front lines that doesn't want the war to stop because they are simply having too much fun. No, this points based approach is about applying 'game theory' and encouraging efficient use of resources to maximize impact. It's not to make it more fun - it's to make it more logistically sustainable.
    • In the back of my mind, I would never go to war for America, I wonder what poor sucker would?. In that, me and Trump agree. I am proud of America, and I respect people who do die for this Country. I guess I am more of an idea man, than a shoot a bullet at another guy kind of man. In the now, in the future, it will be a game of mowing down human beings, now we ask why? what is the purpose?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by znrt ( 2424692 )

      Why is the idea that "gamifying war" is bad?

      it isn't, really. it isn't even fundamentally new, it's just a new twist on an already common practice. but it's not good "étiquette" as it somehow seems to trivialize killing, so it triggers suerficial and emotional brains. in other words, it's good clickbait.

  • The Ukraine is advancing miltech to the next level (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @04:27PM (#65533118)

    Anybody in the west not terminally stupid needs to make sure that (a) they win and (b) they are then willing to share that tech.

    Yes, I know the US leadership does not have anybody on the "not terminally stupid" class at this time. But European leaders need to begin to take this really seriously.

  • What was that movie from... early 90's?... they recruit children to fight aliens because they are good at video games ... humanity's last hope.. yeah, I guess we're there now. Kids have better reflexes, so...

  • I've seen stories worrying about "gamifying war" since the US military started moving heavily into drone warfare - so for a couple decades at least.

    What the Ukranians have done is, of necessity, figured out how to take advantage of technical advancements and do it cheaply, effectively, and en masse - unlike the US, where the military has had carte blanche for-bloody-ever and don't even bother to think about doing anything cheaply (a million dollars to kill one guy? No problem!).

    • So, you agree, that the Defense Department budget should be cut? I do. Trump has no idea on how to do this, but as a regular Slashdot reader(me), I think that a large amount of AI enabled drones could beat the US Military, and it does not take a Trillion dollars to do that. Trump has no ideas. He is a mumbling idiot.

      • So, you agree, that the Defense Department budget should be cut?

        I suspect the US military budget could be cut by a *lot*... but I think those decisions should be based on a non-partisan, as-objective-as-possible, thorough analysis of what the country actually needs to spend in order to defend itself and to participate in the defense of its allies.

        Unfortunately I don't think that's likely to happen, regardless of the party in power. Trump and his sycophants arguably have made the situation worse, but it's not exactly a new problem.

  • Game Theory "is" war. (Score:3)

    by drainbramage ( 588291 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @05:24PM (#65533248) Homepage

    Nothing new in the clickbait article.
    Several years ago (yes, I am that old) during the Cold War the US Navy realized their Submarine 'random course' techniques were predicable.
    (Really, didn't they realize this back in WW2?)
    The solution ended up being literally to base the course change on a roll of dice.
    My favorite book about those times is "Blind Mans Bluff" https://submarinebooks.com/bli... [submarinebooks.com]

  • Recognizing good performance and steering assets to those who perform better is good business.

  • And? (Score:3)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday July 20, 2025 @05:59PM (#65533338)

    That's how you win wars. To quote General Patton: “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.”

    Considering all the atrocities Russia committed and continues to commit against Ukraine, this doesn't even register.

  • In the old days, it was tick marks on the wall or plane, notches on their weapons, trophies, medals, scalps, feathers in headbands.

    Gamifying war is not new.

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