'The One Feature That Keeps Me From Recommending Flip Phones'

Dust is that "feature" or drawback, The Verge's reviewer Allison Johnson argues. Samsung's head of smartphone planning Minseok Kang told her earlier this year that creating dustproof foldable phones remains technically challenging but "not impossible." Current flagship foldables from Samsung and Motorola carry IP48 ratings that protect against particles larger than one millimeter, while traditional smartphones at similar price points offer full IP68 dust and water resistance. The durability gap persists five years after Samsung's original Galaxy Fold experienced screen failures from small particles entering the hinge mechanism.

But is there enough demand

[Valgrus Thunderaxe]

for companies to invest in and improve this format of phone? I've owned several flip phones way back to the Star-Tac and I wouldn't want this now over a monolithic touch-screen phone.

Most of the time when I hear pro-"flip phone" arguments it's from people that don't want "smart phones", but most of these flips phones are Android (smart) phones just in a different format and can be made to do anything any other Android phone can do.

They may be small markets...

[Viol8]

... amongst business travellers on short tripes who just want to take a single device with a reasonable sized screen (ie no tablet or laptop), and of course the usual techno-fashion victims. Its too bulky for it to be a mass market phone.

Re:But is there enough demand

[thegreatemu]

"Flip phone" in this article is referring to foldable touch screen smart phones, unlike every other use of the term.

Re:

[Sique]

I am using it in the way the article use it.

Just because you grew up with the StarTAC does not mean it is the one and all of flip phones. And I never liked flip phones, and I don't like the new crop of them either.

Re:

[PPH]

Just because you grew up with the StarTAC

DynaTAC. Caveman Ogg always carry club.

Re:But is there enough demand

[tlhIngan]

"Flip phone" in this article is referring to foldable touch screen smart phones, unlike every other use of the term.

Yeah, the article talks about what we call "foldable phones" and not "flip phones". The former are phones that unfold and reveal a huge one piece screen, the latter are things that open Star Trek communicator like where the screen is on one side and the keypad on the other side.

Or has Gen Z completely decided that folding phones are now flip phones?

Re:

[Xenx]

Samsung has two models of phones with foldable displays. Not the only manufacturer, but easiest to reference and leader of the market. There is the larger Fold, and the smaller Flip. The smaller Flip more or less mimics the older flip phones but with a folding display. In general usage, I think foldable = larger and flip = smaller.

Re:

[thegarbz]

Samsung literally has a product called a Galaxy Fold, and a Galaxy Flip. The latter opens like a Star Trek style communicator. The fact that it doesn't have a keypad isn't what made flip phones a flip phone. It's the subcompact form factor that opened to a phone style form factor. That product literally is on the market now and is one of the ones TFA is talking about. Specifically the Galaxy Flip is IP48 rated.

Re:

[sjames]

Any phone is foldable once...

Re:

[martin-boundary]

Any phone is foldable once...

...especially if you're stranded in the Arctic and in danger of freezing to death...

Re:

[93 Escort Wagon]

"Flip phone" in this article is referring to foldable touch screen smart phones, unlike every other use of the term.

Thank you for that context. My first thought was "I've owned several flip phones, back in the day - and I never experienced any issue with dust".

I assume the author is intentionally misusing the term "flip phone" because he knows no one would read the story if it correctly said "foldable".

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

TFA calls them "flip phones" but the ones it talks about are folding phones. There are flip phones on the market, but that's not what TFA is talking about.

I'd like to get a folding phone for the larger screen. They seem durable enough now - I take care of my phones. Would be nice if the screen was a bit harder maybe, and I'd like a reasonable case. Main thing is a strap hole. Best way to avoid dropping your phone.

The problem is they all seem over-priced and under-powered. I know that big folding screens cos

Re:

[Sique]

To me, "folding phones" are just flip phones. I don't see any reason to find a new term for something that's essentially the same.

Re:But is there enough demand

[dgatwood]

To me, "folding phones" are just flip phones. I don't see any reason to find a new term for something that's essentially the same.

Completely different at multiple levels:

• Flip phones were called that because you flipped them open to answer the phone. Foldable phones do not do this.
• Flip phones had to be flipped open to use them. Foldable phones typically have a functional screen on the outside.
• Obviously foldable phones have a screen that flexes. Flip phones do not. This is a major reliability risk, unlike a properly designed hinge.

So it's really confusing to mix up the two terms. From a usage perspective, they're nothing alike. From a reliability perspective, they're nothing alike. And from a technological perspective, they're nothing alike.

Re:But is there enough demand

[dgatwood]

Flip phones and folding phones are the same. Everything else is rabulistics, marketing or features one expects to be different in a phone anyway.

By that standard, tablets with keyboard cases and laptops are the same.

Re:

[Sique]

By that standard, both are portable. Laptops have the additional feature that you can place them on your lap and use them, which warrants a subcategory "laptop" within the category "portable computer". This is a difference which does not exist for flip phones vs. foldable phones. Both are the flip version of the respective type of mobile phones of the time (and there is still the case of the Nokia Communicator - flip phone or foldable?).

In my native language, both flip phone and foldable phone translates

Re:

[dgatwood]

Foldables typically have the additional property that you can use them without opening them.

Re:

[DaFallus]

Sorry, you're just wrong, and convincing you is unnecessary and irrelevant.
Flip phones and folding phones are not the same.

Re:

[Sique]

In my native language, they are. Same word: Klapphandy. Everything else is debate about words, not about meaning.

Re:

[erice]

To me, "folding phones" are just flip phones. I don't see any reason to find a new term for something that's essentially the same.

Because they aren't the same, especially in how they relate to the issue at hand. Phones with folding screens have a problem with dust. Some of which are being called "flip phones" and some that are not. Meanwhile old school flip phones, which are still around, are immune. Saying "flip phones" have a dust problem is at best confusing.

Re:

[organgtool]

It's The Verge - it might as well be the tech blog of that uncle who likes talking about "gadgets" when he's not selling used cars.

Re:

[Junta]

On durability, note that the interior screens almost certainly won't crack, but they will scratch easily enough.

Now most of the time it'll be closed when it might have been scratched, but at least for me after enough time you see scratches in the fold.

So there's a tradeoff there.

Re:

[stabiesoft]

I was pretty tempted on the Mot ones. They were reasonably priced for the lower end one, I think they were on sale for 499 awhile ago. They also only had one nice screen, the expanded one which works fine for me. Some try to cram screens everywhere just adding expense. But my current slab is only 7, works fine, so why change. Maybe next year...

Re:

[thegarbz]

TFA calls them "flip phones" but the ones it talks about are folding phones.

Actually it sounded like to me they are talking about the Samsung Galaxy Flip, which very much has the same form factor as an old flip phone. Trying to gatekeep a term is silly.

Re: But is there enough demand

[dbialac]

I've owned 4 out of the 5 models from Samsung. The first three, the original to the 4, are great phones. Samsung was listening to actual users instead of reviewers. The five and beyond defeat the point of a flip phone: the high degree of durability when dropped. I have an original that sill works and has no cracks on the original screen. This is after countless times it was dropped in a long hospital stay by nurses causing the phone to fall. The reviewers convinced Samsung to drop that ability. There's now a big screen on the front of the phone. Never trust somebody who only uses a phone for 2 weeks to review a cell phone.

Re:

[Gilgaron]

It is a nice format if you like using a stylus to take notes, but not all foldables have pen support and the latest ones have dropped it, so I'm less enthused about the future use cases for the format.

Re:

[PPH]

and can be made to do anything any other Android phone can do.

Cost $50?

Crease

[war4peace]

My OCD hates that bloody crease.

Re:

[Valgrus Thunderaxe]

This is about flip-phones, not foldable phones.

Re:Crease

[nightflameauto]

This is about flip-phones, not foldable phones.

The headline says flip phones, but the summary speaks of foldables. If only Slashdot had editors look things over at some point in the process.

Re:

[thegreatemu]

To be fair, TFA also refers to flip phones and foldables interchangeably, and it's impossible to tell what they're actually talking about.

Re:

[diffract]

I thought it was me but I have no idea what the summary is about. It started talking about foldables and I thought they would segue into flip phones but that never happens

Re:

[thegarbz]

The headline says flip phones, but the summary speaks of foldables. If only Slashdot had editors look things over at some point in the process.

The product that most fits the description of TFS is the Samsung Galaxy Flip - a phone with the same form factor as old flip phones.

Gatekeeping terms just makes you look pedantic and difficult to communicate with. This goes for you as well as the parent. Flip/foldable phones are really a distinction without a difference for TFA since the content applies to both on the market right now.

Re: Crease

[oneiros27]

No, it's about foldable phones.

Whoever wrote the headline must be AI or young enough to not know there's a major difference between the two.

Re:

[ConceptJunkie]

Or a /. editor who didn't bother to read it...

Re:

[unrtst]

Or a /. editor who didn't bother to read it...

Not that it matters much. A lot of users don't read TFS anyway.

Re:

[unrtst]

This is about flip-phones, not foldable phones.

Bullshit. The title is, but TFS and TFA are about foldables. Go reread them. TFS has "fold" in it three times, but not a single "flip".

Re:

[Zangief]

right, but I think the term just means "foldable" now

it's not like there are many important real flip smartphones right now

Re: Crease

[oneiros27]

My understanding is that there's a market for old flip phones in Amish communities (as they typically ban smartphones, but it's okay to have a phone that you can shut off when you're at home), and there are some schools that have talked about banning smartphones so the kids can still get in contact with parents but not be playing games and using social media while at school. ... but models? No clue. The only one that I can think of is from old TV ads for jitterbug phones. (a special network/service for o

Re: Crease

[yuvcifjt]

There appears to be no difference, or very minor between foldable and flip phones - the first opens horizontally, while the latter opens vertically.

Re:

[nightflameauto]

There appears to be no difference, or very minor between foldable and flip phones - the first opens horizontally, while the latter opens vertically.

There's a yer momma joke in there somewhere, I'm just not caffeinated enough to see it.

Re:

[Locke2005]

Actually, it's an old joke about Asian women... which I won't repeat here.

Re:

[Sique]

Flip phones and folding phones are the same. They are phones you fold if not in use, and you can flip open if you need them.

Re:

[war4peace]

Then please explain this: "Current flagship foldables"

Also, TFA links to this article: https://www.theverge.com/2019/... [theverge.com]
Also-also, how about this piece of text: "And it remained more or less unchallenged until Samsung started folding screens in half"?

No, the article is about foldable phones. But it's The verge, no surprise they bundle all types under one name.

Re: Crease

[dbialac]

I've owned 4. You won't see it while you're using it.

Re:

[leptons]

Oh don't worry, they'll see it, they have to see it because otherwise they can't complain about it.

Re:

[war4peace]

Or maybe I see it because of my OCD, which I mentioned.

Try being a bit less of an arsehole next time.

Re:

[leptons]

>Try being a bit less of an arsehole next time.

Try being a bit less OCD next time. For non-dysfunctional people, the "crease" is just fine. Nobody normal notices it enough to be annoyed by it, and we recognize the benefit outweighs getting angry at a "crease". Perhaps you should seek therapy so that a "crease" in a folding phone isn't bothering you enough to tell the entire world about it. You probably don't even own a folding phone. And let me remind you, if you post on a world-wide forum, expect to g

Re:

[war4peace]

You really ARE a piece of shit.

Re:

[leptons]

Oh, I forgot you existed, but you just had to remind me. I guess you ran out of things to complain about today, so you had to come back here? So tell me, where did that bad crease in the folding phone touch you? You seem really damaged by it. I suggest you stick your head in the sand and ignore the progress the rest of us are enjoying. That way you won't be forced to post pointless comments about your personal flaws, and then you won't get called out anymore for being a waste of oxygen. Let me remind you,

Re:

[war4peace]

Maybe you missed this essential tidbit: "My OCD".

If I see a dead pixel on a 4K monitor, that is ALL I see from that moment on.
If I see the crease on a flip / foldable phone, I will actively look for it every time.

Not proud of it, and I can only control it with some effort. It is what it is.

Achilles Heel

[glatiak]

No surprise here. The hinge and the ribbon cable across the joint was the failure point for my Motorola flip phones and a series of Psion pocket computers (much missed). A minor miracle that none of the laptops I have worn out over the years died quite that way. But being larger they were a tad more servicable. Which was not a feature of the other devices. Nice that the concept has resurfaced but a better approach to the failure points remains elusive. Sigh.

Re:

[Tablizer]

Time for somebody to invent a new kind of hinge. Double hinge? Rubber hinge? Offset mini-bars?

waterproof phones aren't

[Locke2005]

My IP65 rated Pixel 3 immediately took on water and stopped working when I flipped my kayak, leading me to suspect that IP ratings are a lie. I do kind of want a flip phone because every time I mow the lawn with my smart phone in my pocket, it goes into emergency call mode and start entering random digits... which I can't hear over the lawnmower. So I fear my phone may accidentally butt-dial 911.

Re: waterproof phones aren't

[dasunt]

IPx5 is not rated for submersion.

That would be IPx8.

Re:

[Locke2005]

My bad. "The Pixel 3, Google's latest iteration of the phone, has a rating of IP68, which means that it's slightly more water-resistant than its predecessor. It can withstand being submerged in up to 1.5 meters for 30 minutes, according to Trusted Reviews." There was literally water dripping out of the case, so either the factory failed to seal it, or the seal broke after being carried around in my pocket for a few months.

Re:

[PPH]

Google's latest iteration of the phone, has a rating of IP68

Do they float? Because my $50 flip phone, car keys and wallet are just fine in a dry bag.

Re:

[bill_mcgonigle]

> leading me to suspect that IP ratings are a lie

In my n/n experiences it is a total lie.

n is somewhere in the 10-15 range.

A few have survived a splash or a minute of rain while others fried in a minute of rain.

None have survived submersion.

Winter?

[fluffernutter]

What about freezing weather? Know someone who had a folding Samsung phone, but the non-removable screen protector developed a crease very quickly. They continued to use it normally regardless and the screen ended up cracking because of it. $1200 to fix so it was just garbage at that point.

Why do I need a hinge?

[registrations_suck]

Why do I need a hinge on my phone?

From what I can tell, it offers no tangible improvement to the device and is just something else that can break.

Re: Why do I need a hinge?

[OrangeTide]

Higher screen to pocket ratio.

Re:

[presearch]

That's more of a failure of the phone's UI.

The only use case for a hinge phone is showing it to someone else for the first time.
To which they'll reply, "huh, I guess".

Re:

[OrangeTide]

My laptop has a hinge, if it didn't it wouldn't fit into my backpack. Plus it has a much nicer keyboard than your typical smartphone. Great UI really, even if it doesn't fit in a pocket.

I think if price and fragility were a non-issue, then foldable smartphones (clamshell?) would be the default choice for most people. Because ultimately if you can use it like a phone but then flip it open to watch a movie or use it more like a tablet, then people would do that.

Re:

[Powercntrl]

Why do I need a hinge on my phone?

It's probably more of a fashion/trendiness thing than for any practical reason. I never liked flip phones the first time around, because it just always seemed so stupid to have to unfold your phone before using it, and then close it back up when you're done. But it seems like every so often we come back around to things that are more inconvenient to deal with (such as vinyl records), and some folks will embrace it just so they can be quirky and different little humans.

Re:

[registrations_suck]

I never liked flip phones back in the day either. So much more inconvenient than a "bar" phone.

Re:

[Kernel Kurtz]

I never liked flip phones back in the day either. So much more inconvenient than a "bar" phone.

This is perhaps the absolute pinnacle of first world problems.

Re:

[registrations_suck]

There is far more trivial shit than bar phone vs flip phone.

Fortunately, Slashdot does not exist to develop solutions for the world's most pressing issues.

Re:

[Kernel Kurtz]

Rest assured the first world still has a shit ton of problems of its own. This is not one of those.

Re:

[erice]

I never liked flip phones back in the day either. So much more inconvenient than a "bar" phone.

The big selling point (apart from size) for flip phones back in the day was durability. When the phone we folded, the screen was protected. No Gorilla Glass back then so bar phones took a beating.

Re:

[pjt33]

I think there were practical advantages to clamshell phones. The buttons were inaccessible when it was in your pocket, so it eliminated pocket dialling. And mine, at least, didn't open flat, and the angle made it better for actual use as a phone (microphone near mouth and speaker near ear) then a flat object.

Re:

[GuB-42]

Hinges are really useful in flip phones. It makes the folding action much easier and reversible.

Re:

[TwistedGreen]

It makes as much sense as protecting your loved ones by pushing them down the stairs.

They are all protected at the bottom of the stairs.

Re:

[TWX]

It makes as much sense as protecting your loved ones by pushing them down the stairs.

They are all protected at the bottom of the stairs.

How else are you going to protect them from the terrible secret of space?

Re:

[thegarbz]

Translation: Person who doesn't want or need a larger phone screen has no idea why anyone else would want a larger phone screen.

happy user of a RAZR 2024 + here

[williamyf]

As long as the phone runs for 3 years, all is well in the world. If it lasts more, the better. I am even open to change the batteries (plural) at some point.

Having said that, is not like i work in construction, or in dusty envirnoments, so i do not know outside of those cases how much dust can be a problem for a foldable used by normies...

Almost bought a Fold

[Kernel Kurtz]

I would have bought a Fold last month, except the latest gen stopped supporting the s-pen. I use it all the time for note taking, so after my Note 3, Note 8, and Note 20 I had no choice but to get an S25 Ultra. It's nice that they have these phones with even bigger screens. It's unfortunate they are removing some of the useful things you can do with them.

Re:

[Gilgaron]

Yes especially with that being one of the best use cases for the larger area. Movies/shows in letterbox don't really look much better on the inside than the outside of the phone, and while you can cram multiple apps on screen that alone isn't worth the extra risk from the design being more fragile to me. I've had my Fold4 repaired each year I've had it and am thinking of going for an Ultra when it is time to move on.

Re:

[Kernel Kurtz]

Yes especially with that being one of the best use cases for the larger area. Movies/shows in letterbox don't really look much better on the inside than the outside of the phone, and while you can cram multiple apps on screen that alone isn't worth the extra risk from the design being more fragile to me. I've had my Fold4 repaired each year I've had it and am thinking of going for an Ultra when it is time to move on.

That is a useful anecdotal data point, thanks. Maybe I made the right decision without even knowing it, in any case I'm good for another ~4 years. Just FYI the S25 Ultra s-pen no longer has bluetooth functionality, apparently few people used it. I only ever used the remote shutter, but that is not a game changer. Also no sim card slot. That used to be an important feature to me, but with the internal storage now available it is not so much anymore. Obviously when you make changes not everyone is going

Google Navigation

[Tony Isaac]

Google Navigation alone, is reason enough for me to stick with a smartphone. To this day, Garmin standalone navigation devices are still a far cry from the sophistication and ease of use of Google Navigation.

Second on my list of reasons, is authenticator apps. They're a pain, but much more secure than texted authorization codes.

Third, I like being able to send and receive emails from my phone.

The rest is gravy. But the above three reasons are critical to me.

Re:

[93 Escort Wagon]

Yeah, the author is mis-using "flip phone" to refer to foldable smart phones. Probably because no one would read his article if it'd said "foldable phone" in the title.

Re:

[thegarbz]

Nope, the author uses both interchangeably because there are Flip phones on the market where the comments from TFA also apply. Flip phones were a form factor. One like the Samsung Galaxy Flip which is IP48 rated.

Re:

[thegarbz]

What's your point? All of that works just fine on the Samsung Galaxy Flip. - A modern Android device with a flip phone formfactor.

Re: Google Navigation

[paul_engr]

You're an idiot and can't read or interpret shit

Floobydust

[MCJ plus]

What about floobydust?

Please don't confuse folding with flipping.

[Fly Swatter]

Nothing is wrong with a flip phone, they worked for years.

A folding phone though has folding a screen which is just a weak point waiting to fail.

Uhhhh

[paul_engr]

Oneplus solved that shit with the open. Zero issues with dust in the screen, still have issues with shit between the screen halves when closing though. Punched a hole in both sides on day two with an aluminum chip. Whoops!