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The Courts Transportation

Passengers Sue Delta, United Over Windowless 'Window Seats' (courthousenews.com) 108

In a pair of class actions filed this week, passengers from each coast quibbled with United Airlines and Delta Air Lines' policies charging extra for window seats that are not actually beside windows, instead offering a view of a blank aircraft wall. From a report: "Delta indicated to the plaintiff and class members that the particular seats they chose had a 'window'; even though Delta knew full well they did not," the plaintiffs taking on Delta said in an 18-page complaint filed in federal court in New York, accusing the airline of false advertising and deceptive business practices.

Half of Delta's fleet of nearly 1,000 aircraft comprises Boeing 737s, Boeing 757s and Airbus A321s -- all of which have at least one wall-adjacent seat with no window, according to the plaintiffs. It's where vertical air conditioning riser ducts are located, making putting a window there impossible, the competing Alaska Airlines explains on its website. But unlike Alaska and others, the plaintiffs complain, Delta advertises the seats as having a window, offering them as a "window seat" option on its seat map during checkout.

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Passengers Sue Delta, United Over Windowless 'Window Seats'

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  • Slam dunk case (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Murdoch5 ( 1563847 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:42AM (#65602546) Homepage
    That's hilarious, how do you sell a “window seat” that's not next to a window horizontally? Any reasonable / normal person is going to understand that “window seat”, means if you turn your head to the left or right, you'll be looking at a window. I can guess some arguments they will try to make:

    1. “Window seat” is a generic term for any seat wall adjacent, and as different aircraft configurations exist, we use “window seat” to denote that seat, since in most cases there will be a window present.

    2. In our terms and conditions, on page 711, paragraph 4, sub-paragraph 2, clause 1 sub C, it clearly states: “The term “window seat” has no relation to, or baring on, a window being present.”, before selecting the seat they were notified to read the terms and condition.

    3. “Window seat” qualifies if a window is located within the sight line of the passenger, where sight line is defined in such a way that it applies overly broad to everyone, even the blind.

    4. On the map of the seats, we did not show a window being present.

    And so on, but honestly, if you don't have a window right next to the seat, it's not a window seat.
    • slam dunk the passengers will lose (or get a $10 credit for their next flight)
      Lifetime doesn't mean lifetime
      Buy doesn't mean purchase
      Own doesn't mean right of first sale anymore.
      • Luckily in this case, if you look up the definition of "Window Seat", it says to be next to a window: https://dictionary.cambridge.o... [cambridge.org]. Unless the lawyers are grossly incompetent, it should not be possible to lose this case, regardless as to the number of bad arguments that will be brought up, and if, for some reason, a judge decides in favour of the airlines, just appeal.
    • That's hilarious, how do you sell a “window seat” that's not next to a window horizontally?

      Probably the same way that they used to add on a "fuel surcharge" as if fuel was some optional extra that was not normally included in the ticket price. There is no depth to which this industry will not stoop in search of profit unless - or until - the law forbids it....and even then they may hire a small army of lawyers and give it a go anyway.

    • 5. The screen in the seat in front of you runs Windows. Thus it's a windows seat.

      Going forward, all seats along the body of the aircraft will be bought from the newly created Window company thus they will all be Window(R) Seats. There are some other companies who did something similar and got away with it. I think one of them was one of the fake meat companies?

  • seatguru (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PhantomHarlock ( 189617 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:43AM (#65602554)

    Always consult seatguru before booking...they have maps of the layouts for each plane for each carrier, and you can see the lemons....

    • Re:seatguru (Score:4, Informative)

      by nealric ( 3647765 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:54AM (#65602596)

      Seatguru can be outdated and doesn't account for aircraft swaps. Sometimes airlines can change the airplane you are flying on a day or two out, which will mean a change in the seat layout. You might have a window seat with a window on a A321, and then they swap with a Boeing and you are SOL.

      • by ddtmm ( 549094 )
        Good point
      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        Seatguru can be outdated and doesn't account for aircraft swaps. Sometimes airlines can change the airplane you are flying on a day or two out, which will mean a change in the seat layout. You might have a window seat with a window on a A321, and then they swap with a Boeing and you are SOL.

        Aerolopa is a better resource these days, they tend to use the maps provided by airlines rather than just generic ones as well as having different maps for airliners that have multiple configurations.

        Whilst last minute equipment changes happen, I find they're pretty rare. Usually an airline will try to replace one type with the same type as it messes about a whole bunch of stuff (not the least of which is the crew roster, change type and you'll need a new crew rated for that type).

    • by Mousit ( 646085 )

      Always consult seatguru before booking...they have maps of the layouts for each plane for each carrier, and you can see the lemons....

      Alas, SeatGuru is yet another site TripAdvisor bought up when it was hot and then eventually basically abandoned. The site has more or less been in maintenance mode for years and is no longer updated. They stopped updating their maps in 2020 (maybe earlier), same time they discontinued their mobile apps and blog section.

      These days the most popular still-updated seat map site is arguably Aerolopa [aerolopa.com]. It does lack some of the features SeatGuru had that I really liked--in particular, SG had green/yellow/red

      • Thanks for the update. I did use Seatguru fairly recently and the information on my particular flight was still valid as far as I can tell, but maybe I just got lucky. I did notice that it was transforming into a booking gateway to maximize revenue. I've bookmarked the new site and I will refer to it for the next trip.

    • by dohzer ( 867770 )

      Perhaps the airline should have consulted it before advertising.

    • by mtmra70 ( 964928 )

      Seat Guru has long been outdated and unreliable

      AeroLopa is the true authority.
      https://www.aerolopa.com/ [aerolopa.com]

  • I understand what happened. Clearly a profit motive without regard for the customer.

    Delta should simply give them what they ask for and eat the cost.

    If I were the judge, I would wait till Delta loses the case and come down extra hard on them. I would describe their lawyers as incompetent, and make it very clear this was an obvious case of fraud on the air line's part.

    This is clearly a case of outright lying to the customer. Window Seat is not a 'name describing the seat near the plane skin'. It is a cl

  • I hope the airlines lose and have to spend billions of dollars.
    The customers would only get a small amount and the lawyers for the plaintiffs get the other billions but at least the airlines would be out an amount that makes them think next time.

    • by caseih ( 160668 )

      Cheaper to just spend millions to redesign the web site what's selling seats. Instead of calling it window or aisle, just refer to it by the seat letter. A, B,C etc. It's up to the buyer to determine whether there's actually a window nearby. Or maybe you get two windows depending on how the row lines up with the windows.

      Given the possibility in the future of lifting body aircraft with very wide cabins, just put up screens between groups of seats and put on some picturesque view. Get people used to that

      • Here in The Netherlands they call it window seats with a small asteric, but the price is the same anyway.
        Only 2 things matter for the price difference:
        1) Class obvious (economy/business/first class)
        2) The time of boarding for your class. The later you board the cheaper it is, but also less chance on overhead bin space.
  • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:51PM (#65602748) Journal

    Why would anyone ever think that a seat marketed as a "window seat" would actually have a window? I mean, that's just bonkers. Reign yourself in, Citizen, and report to your scheduled Travel Enshittification Class as directed.

  • Be honest, most just buy the Window Seat so they don't have people on both sides.
  • She always wants a window seat then immediately closes the shade because she doesn't like the light and it also makes her motion sick. We ended up in a funny row that was in between two windows and she was a little frustrated she couldn't close either window but in the end she fell asleep and it wasn't a big deal.

    I have no preference on seating, I just want some leg room so I my knee doesn't lock up in a bad position.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      On some newer aircraft they have LCD window shades now. As well as the passenger being able to dim the, the cabin crew can override the setting. Very handy for when people are trying to sleep and someone decides to blast everyone with sunlight, or when they need them fully transparent for take-off and landing.

  • next sue restaurants for service fees force them to name it AUTO TIP!

  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:37PM (#65603022)

    Since the seats don't line up perfectly anyway, lots of seats only have a window is the loosest sense. The occupant isn't in sole control of it, and sometimes craning of the neck is needed to use it as scenery. Sometimes the view is only a wing. So is it really a window seat?

    My working definition of window seat is "not the middle or the aisle". I like to lean against the plane.

    But for the lawsuit, what's the harm done? It's non-zero I suppose. If the goal is to change behaviour, okay then. Have them remove the term window seat from all the literature and call it a day. If it's about recompense, seems to me you'd need to show the price difference between the non-window window seat and its neighbour at the time of purchase to demonstrate and quantify harm.

    • There wouldn't be an issue, if airlines didn't charge extra for a window seat. They used to call it a window seat, but since there was no fee, no harm no foul. But if you're going to charge for something, you need to deliver.

    • But for the lawsuit, what's the harm done?

      LOL, so fraud and deception mean NOTHING to you? WTF dude? People spent money to get what they want, and again, mother fuckers twisted that desire into profit for themselves at the expense of ordinary people. This is worse than someone selling a kit car as the original car. At least he kit car is drivable, so you get something for your money.

      • Don't extract one snippet from its context please. I said it was non-zero. I'm simply saying it needs defining, which was the part you conveniently ignored.

  • A Windows seat costs money, but often results in disappointment. The biggest difference is that you have a better chance being satisfied with the Delta experience than with the Microsoft experience.

    Just let that sink in for a bit...

  • Get rid of all the windows, it'd probably make the plain safer. Instead add a few hi definition cameras to the outside and allow all the passengers to view them on their seat monitor.
    • by La Gris ( 531858 )

      Sure it'd be safer, unless the blind replacement does not fly off mid-air like that door plug.

    • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      Before landing the checklist includes seatbelts on, tables stowed, seats in the upright position, and window blinds open. The windows serve a safety function: in case of an evacuation, being able to see out helps in decision-making about which exits to use.

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        Before landing the checklist includes seatbelts on, tables stowed, seats in the upright position, and window blinds open. The windows serve a safety function: in case of an evacuation, being able to see out helps in decision-making about which exits to use.

        Also for emergency services on the ground to see in, in case there is a cabin fire (which is why lights are dimmed).

  • by PPH ( 736903 )

    Look for one of those third party seat selector web sites ( www.seatguru.com for example) and check your selection before confirming. They publish details of aircraft cabin configurations and the shortcomings of various seats. Some of which the airlines would rather not admit to.

  • What, not one "Linux seat" reference so far? Or "blue sky of death"? Tisk tisk.

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