FTC Sues LA Fitness For Making it Difficult for Consumers To Cancel Gym Memberships (ftc.gov) 76
FTC, in a press release Wednesday: The Federal Trade Commission today sued the operators of LA Fitness and other gyms over allegations they make it exceedingly difficult for consumers to cancel their gym memberships and related services that continued indefinitely unless cancelled. The agency is seeking a court order prohibiting the allegedly unfair conduct and money back for consumers harmed by the difficulty in cancelling memberships.
"The FTC's complaint describes a scenario that too many Americans have experienced -- a gym membership that seems impossible to cancel," said Christopher Mufarrige, Director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection. "Tens of thousands of LA Fitness customers reported difficulties -- cancellation was often restricted to specific times or required speaking to specific managers who were often not present or available. The FTC will not hesitate to act on behalf of consumers when it believes companies are stifling consumers' ability to choose which recurring charges they want to keep."
"The FTC's complaint describes a scenario that too many Americans have experienced -- a gym membership that seems impossible to cancel," said Christopher Mufarrige, Director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection. "Tens of thousands of LA Fitness customers reported difficulties -- cancellation was often restricted to specific times or required speaking to specific managers who were often not present or available. The FTC will not hesitate to act on behalf of consumers when it believes companies are stifling consumers' ability to choose which recurring charges they want to keep."
I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:2)
If you use Paypal, for example, for a monthly recurring payment, you can just... not pay. You can choose to just cancel that recurring payment, literally within Paypal on the dashboard.
If you are using a credit card, can't you just contact the card company, and request to cancel monthly transactions and all recurring ones to that vendor?
I mean, they can try to charge you, but if your card does not go through, what can they do? How can they keep you in an ongoing recurring membership if you don't pay for t
Re:I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:4, Informative)
Bally Total Fitness used to hook their memberships to an loan so that is one think you don't want on your credit report.
Also they can hit you with late fees and all kinds of other bs for not paying.
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It's bad enough that I might use a process server to cancel membership. That way if the company goes "you didn't cancel", the process server will testify that they delivered the paperwork to a responsible employee, what the paperwork was, etc...
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It's bad enough that I might use a process server to cancel membership. That way if the company goes "you didn't cancel", the process server will testify that they delivered the paperwork to a responsible employee, what the paperwork was, etc...
What paperwork will be delivered to a responsible employee? if you tell the payment processor to stop payment, thats all they do, they stop the payment. At least thats my experience in the USA.
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The problem isnt with the payment processor, but with the gym or other company 'continuing' services, even if you aren't or even can't using them.
They then keep attempting to bill, just now with late fees, interest, and negative credit reporting. Possibly even collection agencies calling.
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Credit reporting = extortion for the 21st century.
Most people passively accepted it, so yeah, corporations enthusiastically use it to force you to pay whether you owe or not. You can cancel all you want, but they will still try to punish you for not paying. Especially since the mechanism to do so is already in place, and is so damn easy to use.
Or you can spend who knows how many hours trying to dispute it. Either way, you will pay.
Recurring charges were not invented for your convenience.
Re:I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:3)
Which causes a major disruption to your life.
In fairness, though, it's still easier than cancelling the gym membership...
Re:I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:5, Interesting)
I went thru that with 24 Hour Fitness and Wells Fargo Bank long ago... I could not get 24 hour fitness to stop billing me. So I told Wells Fargo to stop paying them -they refused to block the transactions. So I closed my accounts, took a cashiers check for my funds and opened a new account at another bank.
I got notices in the mail for several months thereafter from Wells Fargo about the overdrafts they continued to allow against a closed account. I had a mark on my credit report from them for years over unpaid overdrafts.
Everyone involved in these scams deserves to burn.
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It is common in that industry to require a member to use their checking account for recurring membership charges, so that the only way to prevent the charges is to close the bank account.
America is really a distopian hellhole when it comes to consumer interaction and protections.
It's common in Europe to use a checking account as well. The difference is that pre-authorised transactions have a clearing time and the bank tracks registrations. I don't need to cancel anything. I can just go to my bank's website, select a recurring subscription (this is where I can see things like Netflix, my gym membership, my beer membership) and I can just click cancel on the bank's website. The bank then aske
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âoeAmerica is really a distopian hellhole when it comes to consumer interaction and protections.â
Hey look at Mr Optimist here. I have lived here all of my life, and for years I have longed for America to become a consumer dystopian hellhole, as that would be a massive improvement.
Alas, it remains a pipe dream.
Re:I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:4, Interesting)
You mention Paypal specifically, but as far as CC's and checking account billing:
FTA:
Consumers who try to cancel their memberships by stopping charges to their bank or credit card find they are rebilled, often under new account numbers.
Re:I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not a problem with LA Fitness, that's a problem with the bank knowingly participating in fraud.
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I've never needed to try this, but I'd like to think that you could be able to tell your bank that no charge to your account for any reason.
I tried that to get out of a gym membership and they wouldn't do it. I had to close the account.
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Same thing when I tried to get rid of Sirius the second time. They were billing a soon-to-expire credit card and it was such a pain in the ass to cancel the first time, I just let it expire. They then billed me for "continuity of service" for an extra month and threatened collections on me.
Or just ... (Score:3)
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If you are using a credit card, can't you just contact the card company, and request to cancel monthly transactions and all recurring ones to that vendor?
The credit card company can't take a "Request to cancel monthly transactions". What they do if you ask is they inform you that you have to contact the subscription service to request the cancellation.
You can contact the bank and try to cancel the whole card, but in most cases even doing that does not prevent new charges from going through on a subsc
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You are simply wrong. Sounds like a strong instance of PEBCAK
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They're completely correct on the card cancelation part at least. Canceling the card is no longer a guarantee of getting rid of payments attached to it. Card updater services are a real thing and are bullshit.
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If you are using a credit card, can't you just contact the card company, and request to cancel monthly transactions and all recurring ones to that vendor?
The credit card company can't take a "Request to cancel monthly transactions". What they do if you ask is they inform you that you have to contact the subscription service to request the cancellation.
You can contact the bank and try to cancel the whole card, but in most cases even doing that does not prevent new charges from going through on a subscription you already authorized. Also, If you are issued a new credit card on the account, the subscription company is provided the new card number through the Mastercard or Visa "Automatic card updater" service.
Another option is using a virtual credit card number and locking that number. That prevents future charges without having to close the entire account.
Of course, the third option is not signing up for fitness memberships, timeshares, or other things that historically have a bad reputation for being hard to cancel. Fortunately, most of these things are discretionary purchases.
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SiriusXM is how I know.
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Re: I'm confused why you can't just not pay. (Score:2)
non-interactive auto-pay should be illegal. (Score:2)
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No one wants to do this. No one wants to have to get online or check their phone multiple times a month to specifically authorize every. single. transaction. That's what a recurring payment is... something where you specifically approve it to recur on a regular basis.
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What we need is for the bank to automatically detect these recurring payments. And provide a list at the end of every month in their website or app with a one-click option to block the charge from repeating again - as well as any other additional charges by the same vendor without further explicit authorization. In addition: Picking this option should generate an electronic notice to the provider of service that the customer has Opted out of automatic renewals, And all authorization to automa
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That sounds like a fucking nightmare. I literally put all my bills on auto-pay so that I DON'T have to mess with them every month.
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Wow people are lazy with their money today.
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Wow people are lazy with their money today.
I could say the same thing about the reverse - if you have a subscription keep up with it and go cancel it if you don't want it anymore. If it takes some effort well then . . . don't be lazy.
Realistically if we're going to prioritize where we spend effort, it makes sense to put the effort on the 1 time task (cancelling a subscription) rather than a recurring tasks (paying monthly for a subscription that you actually want).
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I could actually do that with the card I use. It has virtual card numbers for each web site, which I can suspend or delete at any time, then turn back on later.
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which card do you use? I've been interested in using virtual card numbers but mine don't do that.
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My business checking account has this protection (it was optional, but recommended). Every charge to the account goes in to "pending" status. I have to click "approve" to allow it to complete. It takes moments via the banking app, but does require regular attention. Since it is a business account, I monitor it regularly (constantly, obsessively...) -but most people don't keep a close eye on their personal accounts so it could become a problem if widely adopted.
I still prefer to put everything (including
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Every time a subscription needs to be paid the customer should have to authorize the payment.
Yeah, no thank you.
This cancel subscription game crap should no longer even be a thing legally speaking.
Agreed. Too bad the current administration doesn't.
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My relatives and I have had many problems with pull-based autopay over the years. My current ISP charges $5 a month more to not use pull-based, but I believe it's worth it. I use my bank's push-based autopay instead. That way I can switch it off instantly.
I wish CA would make a non-autopay fee illegal.
McAfee was one of the worst offenders. Fuck them to Hell and back. Aren't they half-owned by Intel? If so, I change my mind: Lip-Bu Tan should resign, one of the few times I agree with Orangelini.
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Geez can't you just give the FTC credit on one issue where they're getting it right? It's shocking this is happening under a R administration as it is.
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Geez can't you just give the FTC credit on one issue where they're getting it right?
That's only because the gold-plated chalice that LA Fitness's CEO is mailing to the White House is on backorder.
(Inventory is low. Lately there seems to have been a run on these items for some reason.)
Re:Two Words: Trump (Score:5, Informative)
Lobbying killed the click to cancel bill. https://truthout.org/articles/... [truthout.org]
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I guess the next logical thing to do would be that the government should go down to the list of all companies that lobbied against the bill and Open investigations, because the deliberately making services extroardinarily difficult to cancel has always been an Obviously an unfair and deceptive practice even without the new Click to cancel rule going into place.
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because the deliberately making services extraordinarily difficult to cancel has always been an Obviously an unfair and deceptive
Unfair != illegal, unfortunately. And I wouldn't call the practices "deceptive", if you jump through the hoops the service gets cancelled. I've never run into a legit company that won't cancel a service when requested. Pain the ass? Stupid? SHOULD be illegal? Yes, yes, and yes.
the government should go down to the list of all companies that lobbied against the bill and Open investigations
Lol. I'll let you hold your breath on that one.
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All anyone is asking is that cancelling is just as easy as subscribing.
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I wouldn't call the practices "deceptive"
The deceptive part is how people are induced to sign up for service. At the time of advertising or at the time of signup they are presented as this monthly service / service for only $5 a month, for example.
But at the time of the customer calling to cancel the companies want to treat it as a Forever commitment or an Annual commitment with a monthly payment plan.
They create artificial costly barriers to cancelling which amount to an additional fee. The "only" $5 i
Here's an idea on how to do it... (Score:3)
My suggestion:
Simply make it as easy to cancel, as it is to subscribe/enroll.
Sounds very fair to me...no?
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California has that law. It's still damned near impossible on some sites.
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California has that law. It's still damned near impossible on some sites.
My company was audited by California because when you cancel, there was a popup confirmation. That was too much, and we had to remove the confirm dialog.
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So did you remove it for all customers, or just accounts that had California in the billing or address fields?
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Simple solution, make a confirmation dialog when one subscribes. This way it's equally easy to subscribe and to cancel.
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The FTC was going that route and then changed their mind when the gov changed [apnews.com]...
TRX is a realistic alternative gym (Score:2, Interesting)
It has been my experience that a simple TRX unit can replace a whole lotta gym. But even TRX units [decathlon.co.uk] are overpriced. Look at Decathlon's own [decathlon.co.uk].
Just search YouTube [youtube.com] to learn how to use it.
There's advantages and disadvantages to everything. Paying for and cancelling gym memberships suck.
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The only good reason for a gym membership are exercise classes. The machines are all over-rated and cheaper to buy one/more than a years worth of membership.
But exercise classes offer
1) A set time to go, encouraging consistent attendance
2) Guilt for not not showing up every time you signed up for a class, as opposed to a monthly guilt for not attending at all.
3) Instruction
4) Cameradie / social activity
Wouldn't it be nice to have a rule? (Score:2)
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They did make a rule about it. The courts found a sleazy way to invalidate their rule based on plaintiffs misrepresenting its compliance costs at being above a threshold that would have required a longer comment period. Thus the rule was knocked down, and the current justice department is not seeking to either appeal the decision nor to correct the rulemaking process, because incoming republicans are even more in the hands of big business and don't want the rule - In fact they'd probably like
Just move the the EU (Score:1)
Here our laws are more about protecting the citizens. LA Fitness would be suited by the EU itself if they tried that here.
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Just the opposite, in the EU you're much more likely to get sued by "LA Fitness" equivalent if you just block the payment. And have to pay all the lawyers and lawsuit and collection fees.
This is less of a problem because people are more or less trained that to cancel contracts via snail mail (and preferably registered if there's any chance for a conflict). Some utility companies or insurances do it as a perk for new customers on your behalf, but it still involves sending an actual letter, or in some cases a
Amazing (Score:2)
It is hard for me to admit it, but a Trump appointment did something I agree with rather than say something offensive with a smirk.
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Wasn't it the Trump administration that declined to defend this policy after the courts struck down the Biden-era rule? Because yes it was.
A little late... (Score:2)
At least for my LA Fitness membership, I was able to cancel last year through their website. Was 3 clicks in total as I recall.
Re: A little late... (Score:2)
Was it in California?
I've heard that the easiest way to cancel, if you are not in California, is to move your membership to a California location, then cancel.
I'm in California and the consumer protections seem to be generally above average for the US. We also have a new right to repair law SB244 but it is not properly enforced yet. I'm dealing with an oven issue with LG which does not get adressed.
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Nope, Washington State.
Ironic (Score:2)
Ironically enough, this would be good for most of Slashdot. It could have saved creimer.
I am shocked by this Administration (Score:4, Informative)
This was something that was supposed to start under the Biden Administration but for some reason or another the Trump Administration is continuing down the path. I agree, cancelling any sort of subscription takes way too much work and cancelling a subscription should be easier than signing up for a subscription.
They make U jump thru hoops (Score:1)
to cancel. Literally!
Weird... i did it easily (Score:1)
I've been w/ them for about 20 years and I still had a very old monthly payment which was $30.. No idea if thats still active or not but I did with no backlash. I just told them that I'm moving to another state which doesn't have LA Fitness.