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Flames, Smoke, Toxic Gas: The Danger of Battery Fires on Planes (cnn.com) 68

"Delta Air Lines Flight 1334 was flying from Atlanta to Fort Lauderdale last month when smoke and flames started pouring out of a backpack," reports CNN. "The pilots declared an emergency and diverted to Fort Meyers where the 191 people onboard safely evacuated."

The culprit was a passenger's personal lithium-ion battery pack, which had been tucked away in the carry-on bag. At the FAA's William J. Hughes Technical Center for Advanced Aerospace in Atlantic City, New Jersey, fire safety engineers research and demonstrate just how bad it can be. "Lithium batteries can go into what's called thermal runaway," Fire Safety Branch Manager Robert Ochs, explained. "All of a sudden, it'll start to short circuit ... It will get warmer and warmer and warmer until the structure of the battery itself fails. At that point, it can eject molten electrolyte and flames and smoke and toxic gas...."

These thermal runaways are difficult to fight. The FAA recommends flight attendants first use a halon fire extinguisher, which is standard equipment on planes, but that alone may not be enough. In the test performed for CNN, the flames sprung back up in just moments... "Adding the water, as much water from the galley cart, non-alcoholic liquids, everything that they can get to just start pouring on that device." The problems are not new, but more batteries are being carried onto planes than ever before. Safety organization UL Standards and Engagement says today an average passenger flies with four devices powered by lithium-ion batteries. "The incidents of fire are rare, but they are increasing. We're seeing as many as two per week, either on planes or within airports," Jeff Marootian, the president and CEO of the organization, told CNN...

[T]he latest federal data shows external battery packs are the top cause of incidents, and as a result the FAA has banned them from checked baggage where they are harder to extinguish. But despite all of the warnings, UL Standards and Engagement says two in five passengers still say they check them.

Flames, Smoke, Toxic Gas: The Danger of Battery Fires on Planes

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  • Ban LiPo and NCM now (Score:5, Informative)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Sunday August 24, 2025 @02:46PM (#65612570) Homepage Journal

    LiPo and NCM Li-Ion batteries are inherently hazardous as they are prone to thermal runaway once problems begin.

    LFPs (LiFePo4) can combust, but the danger is much lower because their electrolyte does not emit oxygen when heated. This makes them both less likely to combust, and easier to extinguish.

    Once we have readily available safer chemistries (solid electrolyte?) we could look at banning LFPs as well, if that turned out to make sense. But we should especially just ban NCMs completely as they not only are high-risk (both ignition risk and the increased risk of being difficult to extinguish) but also are most toxic when they burn since they contain cobalt electrode material in exactly the way LFPs don't.

    • Small correction: oxygen is released by the cathode material, the electrolyte is the fuel. The fire triangle is completed by the heat released by the short circuit.

      I'm afraid asking people at the check-in desk whether their no-name battery pack has LFP or NMC cells wouldn't be conclusive though.

      • Small correction: oxygen is released by the cathode material

        Thanks for that.

        I'm afraid asking people at the check-in desk whether their no-name battery pack has LFP or NMC cells wouldn't be conclusive though.

        That's why their sale has to be banned. It won't help with the units already in the wild, and obviously some will slip through, but it can still reduce harm.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        I'm afraid asking people at the check-in desk whether their no-name battery pack has LFP or NMC cells wouldn't be conclusive though.

        Yep. We will probably have to make selling LiPo / Li-Ion to regular people illegal before anything changes.

        • We will probably have to make selling LiPo / Li-Ion to regular people illegal before anything changes.

          That is what I meant by "ban", I suppose I should have written out "ban the sale of".

          As for your other comment, yes we will need to upgrade the safety systems on the planes no matter what, LFPs are not immune to combustion either.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            That is what I meant by "ban", I suppose I should have written out "ban the sale of".

            I think this is the only thing feasible. And, to be fair, quality LiPo and Li-Ion is very safe. Apparently even safer than other battery-operated equipment where the electronics still can go up in fire. The problem is aged and low-quality batteries.

            As to safety-equipment, I have looked into LiPo/Li-Ion transport cases with filters and the like. They do exist and they are specifically intended for damaged and already heating up or burning batteries. I ended up getting some surplus ammo containers instead (fa

            • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

              "The problem is aged and low-quality batteries."

              Sounds like a fact pulled out of your ass.

              But hey, customers will love the sale of their laptops being banned, as will Apple. Good thing /. is here to solve our problems!

              • But hey, customers will love the sale of their laptops being banned, as will Apple. Good thing /. is here to solve our problems!

                It's unclear why you chose to leap to the defense of battery fires, but I guess this is how Slashdot is now.

                • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

                  by gweihir ( 88907 )

                  Some people (like this cretin) just think they are massively smarter than they actually are. To fuel that and "prove" to to themselves how "smart" they are, they go contrarian and take the most ridiculous insightless positions, using a very superficial, incompetent and inadequate "analysis" of statements made by others. For example, that I may actually have read some research on the topic never crossed the mind of this idiot. There are other insightless morons of that type here. These people do not lack in

              • Exactly... so, am I supposed to tear my laptop apart and remove the battery? Will they give me time in the TSA lines to tear my phone apart (a Galaxy S9) to pull the battery out?
                If they grandfather devices in, how does that work? What do you do if a grandfathered device decides to release the magic smoke? How are they going to verify that my factory-sealed phone has an "allowed" battery?

                I don't even know if I could replace the battery in either with LiFePo4... don't know if the charging system would work

                • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

                  by gweihir ( 88907 )

                  And down here in the sane world, what would actually happen is a mark on LiFePo and then, say, 5...10 years, after that has been established and all new ones sold have that, flying with one that does not have the mark will get restricted or not be allowed anymore.

                  There is really no sane reason for your hysterics.

      • by 0123456 ( 636235 )

        You'd probably need some kind of 'flight-safe' approval marking on the package like the other ones that already go on electronics, and bill people for the cost of the diversion if their unmarked battery pack catches fire.

        Foreign scammers will still put fake approval marks on there but it would largely solve the problem for products from legitimate manufacturers.

        • You'd probably need some kind of 'flight-safe' approval marking on the package like the other ones that already go on electronics, and bill people for the cost of the diversion if their unmarked battery pack catches fire.

          Foreign scammers will still put fake approval marks on there but it would largely solve the problem for products from legitimate manufacturers.

          Requiring certification by a reputable standards testing org would help, much like TuV or UL would be a good start. As you point out, scammers will forge them and as long as people buy on price there will be a demand. Per TFA, a bigger issue is people who stick them in their checked luggage which can result in a baggage compartment fire and possible hull loss. I've seen LiPO fire retardant bags for sale, I have no idea of tehir effectiveness but if they are then perhaps requiring batteries to be in carri

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, yes. And no. Problem is that a lot of laptops and phones would not be allowed on planes anymore. Hence this is a process and might take a decade or longer. In the meantime, planes need to upgrade their safety equipment.

      I do agree on LiFePo. After some research, I have replaced my large 100W Li-Ion power-bank with a LiFePo one. Heavier, but lives longer and much lower risk.

    • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Passengers will be pleased to have all their personal electronics banned from planes.

      It's easier to talk about banning batteries, harder to talk about banning cell phones. This isn't a new problem, regulations already exist.

      • It's easier to talk about banning batteries, harder to talk about banning cell phones. This isn't a new problem, regulations already exist.

        But despite all of the warnings, UL Standards and Engagement says two in five passengers still say they check them.

        They should show the passengers episodes of Mayday on the in-flight entertainment system. Valujet 592, SAA 295, Swissair 111, etc. Not all fires caused by batteries of course but they will still get the idea.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      • Don't need to ban cellphones from planes. Just need to ban new-sale of LiPo etc. The problem solves itself in a few years since cellphone batteries degrade so fast, forcing replacement batteries (to which there would be many upstart industries selling safe batteries for older phones) or new phone sales.

        Lithium polymer is nothing but a ticking spicy pillow waiting to happen. This chemistry is unstable, unreliable, and outright dangerous. It degrades faster than it delivers, and the swollen pillows it leav
      • Meh it is very rare it goes wrong on an airplane. But it happens yes and that is why batteries have to be in a the cabin and not in the hold.
    • LiPo and NCM aren't some bomb waiting to go off. All of the incidents so far have been the problem of mechanical damage or manufacturing defect. If anything we should ban Temu, Aliexpress, and Shein, all while holding actual importers of shoddy Chinese trash liable if their piece of cheap Chineseium shit causes a plane to turn around.

      It's just the same with ebikes. Why does New York have more fires related to ebikes compared to the entire country of The Netherlands despite there being orders of magnitude mo

  • I am in the process of phasing out all larger LiPo batteries I have. I will keep the small ones (AAA batteries and wireless mic, for example), but no power-banks. I do have a new LiFePo power bank, which is heavier, but a lot safer. LiFePo also lives longer.

  • wait but why? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cellocgw ( 617879 ) <cellocgw@GAUSSgmail.com minus math_god> on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:40PM (#65612744) Journal

    Are there any stats on the rate of batteries going into thermal runaway when NOT in aircraft? Taken by itself, the claims quoted here seem out of line with any expectations. Do things get worse when the cabin pressure goes down a bit (approx to 8000 - foot atmos equivalent) ?

    • Another interesting thing to test might be fairly abrupt changes to pressure. I think only aircraft will normally cause my ears to pop. Cars going up a mountain road is too gradual.
    • Do things get worse when the cabin pressure goes down a bit (approx to 8000 - foot atmos equivalent) ?

      That's an interesting question. Most batteries in small devices are pouch cells, and when the pouch bursts they're no longer contained and air can reach their contents. On the other hand, air inside a plane is usually so dry that it can cause some people nosebleeds, so I don't know how big a factor that might be. Especially since I've done some [casual] experiments with swollen pouch cells and they seem to react to atmospheric moisture very slowly. A punctured pouch cell will continue to swell up for a very

    • Nothing to do with altitude. It's simply a newsworthy issue when contained. Battery fires happen all the fucking time, and it's almost universally the result of mechanical damage or cheap shoddy Chinese junk bought for the absolute lowest possible price from peddlers of Chineseium. This has happened countless of times on the ground. We ran a story earlier this year about ebike fires in New York. A few years ago it was hoverboards burning apartments down. I have witnessed one burn his hand while playing poke

    • I have never seen a battery fire, but I have seen my share of battery pillows (swollen battery).
      So yeah it happens.
    • wait but why?

      For the same reason that EVERY person in the Navy is a firefighter. There is nowhere else to go when a fire starts. The fire is either dealt with immediately or you die. There are no other options.

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Are there any stats on the rate of batteries going into thermal runaway when NOT in aircraft? Taken by itself, the claims quoted here seem out of line with any expectations. Do things get worse when the cabin pressure goes down a bit (approx to 8000 - foot atmos equivalent) ?

      I wouldn't think so.

      For the most part Lithium battery fires tend to occur due to damaged devices causing overvolting and undervolting. It's also more prevalent in Lithium Polymer batteries favoured by phone makers and battery packs, which is why it tends not to happen to a lot of other devices that have internal batteries like Cameras, laptops, et al. They're less likely to be damaged or use a safer battery type (or both).

      It's a fairly rare thing (although I suspect it tends to happen to the same peop

  • The photo in the linked article is not representative of what actually happens when a battery overheats.

    The FAA conducted a demonstration for CNN inside their research hangar to show what could happen. A rechargeable consumer battery pack, which might be used to charge a laptop or cell phone, was tucked into a seatback pocket and heated to more than 300 degrees to simulate the thermal runaway. Suddenly, sparks and fames violently erupted, scorching nearby seats and sending smoke billowing.

    That's not what people do on planes.

    I'm not saying that battery fires don't happen, or that they aren't sometimes scary. What I'm saying is that the photo and the test, exaggerated what happens in real life.

  • This could be part of the solution.

    If one requires that all new devices have battery doors, so that batteries can easily be removed from them during flights, this might slightly reduce the risk of fire when expanding.

    Ideally, there would be some standard sizes for these removable batteries, such as we already have with AA, AAAs, C, D, etc, that already exist with a wide choice of chemistries. There are even LiOn batteries of this type already, with built-in voltage converters. I have never tried those. My f

    • You are, of course, assuming that the battery is (easily) removable.
      My Galaxy S9 requires some surgery just to get to the battery (and, the glass back isn't exactly flexible), my laptop requires half a dozen screws removed to get to the battery.
      So... if I could remove both easily, and the departure point would hang onto both for me, I'd have to buy a $40 battery for the phone and an $80+ battery for the laptop when I get to where ever I'm heading, then I'd have to do the same thing to head back (and hope I

      • by madbrain ( 11432 )

        Yes, that's why I mentioned "If one requires that all new devices have battery doors" in my second sentence.

        Legacy devices like yours would be grandfathered for a period of time, while new designs come on the market with easily swappable batteries, which used to be standard on laptops and cell phones 2 decades ago.

        In the long run, I don't think the battery manufacturers would make any more money. There would be more competition due to standard form factors, which could actually bring prices down. It is also

        • Security updates only provide security if you download stuff from untrusted sources, or share your IP with people.
          Despite it's age, never had any security issues (or really, any issues at all) even though it's old. Replacing it, of course, is a possibility... if I had the money to get a new one (unlocked, of course).
          Li-Ion batteries last longer when they are 'exercised' fairly often... let your phone or laptop or UPS (although those are usually sealed lead-acid, which makes running them down more important

      • > My Galaxy S9 requires some surgery just to get to the battery (and, the glass back isn't exactly flexible), my laptop requires half a dozen screws removed to get to the battery.

        It's funny how this didn't use to be a problem. We used to have ultra-slim phones with battery doors (such as my Nexus 5), and laptops used to come standard with removable batteries, even in ultra-slim form factors, such as my thinkpad X270. The only reason batteries are enclosed now are so Apple/Samsung/Lenovo can charge you
  • TFA says "average passenger flies with four devices powered by lithium-ion batteries

    On a plane, I usually have my phone, my laptop and my camera, and I'm pretty sure that only a minority have the latter.

    So what are standard devices that make 4 an average ?

    • EarPods

      • by trenien ( 974611 )
        True, I'd forgotten about these (that does make 4 for me)

        The post below offers ideas, but I wonder whether there's a list of devices with their average frequency somewhere. I would be curious to know.

    • Noise cancelling headphones, flashlights, tablets, tablet keyboards, kindles, vapes, medical devices, travel alarms, cooling fans, lighted travel mirrors, gaming devices and controllers, GoPros, massaging neck pillows, white noise generators, etc.

      Everyone has their personal comfort devices that require portable power.

    • So what are standard devices that make 4 an average ?

      I just flew with phone, laptop, work laptop, camera, steam deck, smartwatch and a charging bank, headset, 8 in total. My girlfriend just flew with phone, two cameras, laptop, nintendo switch, smart watch, charging banks, and a 2 separate external batteries for her underwater camera lights which she couldn't check for obvious reasons, and galaxy buds (count that as 1). That's 10 in total.

      It's not hard to rack them up, especially considering how when I look around I see many if not most people flying with a c

    • Electric toothbrush?
  • Given the complete lack of meaningful data, the current state sounds much more like UL making the problem out to be larger than it is, for the testing fees. That isn't to say there is no concern (or active problem), but the way it is being discussed is non-productive. Air transport safety rates are on the order of 6-9's. For batteries to be a problem there needs to be a failure rate of about 1 - 10^8.

    There are about 1 billion air passengers per year in the US, so expecting 100 battery incidents per year doe

  • I wouldn't carry a battery pack on a plane
    1) I knew there were outlets on every plane
    2) I knew that they could support my +100W laptop.
    3) I knew that airports would have a decent amount of outlets

    If they airlines would actually do these things 'most' people wouldn't have the need to travel with them. I realize that there are locations that don't have good power, but the majority of people carry these things because you can't charge a laptop or a phone in most locations on a route. Solve these problems and w

  • Glass fibre fabric is good to thousands of degrees and depriving the fire of oxygen from air will slow it down (oxygen liberation from the cells is a bottleneck for the speed of the fire) and limits smoke production.

    I know nfpa/ul warned of explosion risk recently, still better than the alternative on average.

  • That is if I ever fly again, which I'm not motivated to do because flying sucks so bad.
  • No wonder that external batteries are the main problem. They're large and tend to lie around for ages, mostly-discharged, when people don't travel.

    The fix would be an USB charger port in front of your seat. Ideally USB-C; the airline can then sell overpriced cables to passengers who only brought their USB3 charger cable

  • Powerbanks are 99.9% of the problem. Nobody has applied their brains to problem, including powerbanks freshly charged before boarding. They are charged often and frequently and noname brands may have fake or no electronics attached to the cell. Built in batteries in toothbrushes, mini cameras, shavers and even laptops are not a problem if turned fully off. El Cheapo electric scooter batteries are also elevated. My travel lot is two laptops, two phones, a professional camera (SLR) , a GPS unit, and an elec
  • Sounds like one of these days a plane is going to go down due to cargo area fire, despite presumably halon suppressant system.

  • Maybe a 2 chamber fireproof container, one container above the other, a drop package door in the lower chamber, with several gallons of water in the upper container, a valve to allow the water to flow into the lower chamber.

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Maybe a 2 chamber fireproof container, one container above the other, a drop package door in the lower chamber, with several gallons of water in the upper container, a valve to allow the water to flow into the lower chamber.

      They're way ahead of you buddy.

      Every aircraft will be travelling with at least one of these (or similar) as standard [cabincrewsafety.aero]. The best (and sometimes only) way to stop a lithium battery fire/thermal runaway is to smother the device in something that can cool it completely. The bags are also designed to contain smoke as well. Somewhat lighter than gallons of water and lithium batteries can keep burning even when completely submerged.

    • Maybe a 2 chamber fireproof container, one container above the other, a drop package door in the lower chamber, with several gallons of water in the upper container, a valve to allow the water to flow into the lower chamber.

      So THAT'S what all those "only 144 IQ can solve this in 2 moves!" pull-the-pin game ads really are -- someone's building a database of human puzzle-solving attempts in order to have AI generate fire-suppression systems.

  • Just ban them from cabin, hold, or freight baggage.
    With a corollary that, if one is found in random searches, that party of tickets are all voided without refund, and those passengers barred from future flights.

    If they're not that dangerous ... sand bucket and extractor hood on every flight. Let the manufacturers fight the classification with the airlines. Or IATA.

And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions. -- David Jones

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