Canada Delaying Plan To Force Automakers To Hit EVs Sales Targets (www.cbc.ca) 125
Longtime Slashdot reader sinij shares a report from CBC News: Prime Minister Mark Carney is delaying a plan to force automakers to hit minimum sales levels for electric vehicles. The move is part of a series of measures the government announced Friday to help the sectors most affected by U.S. President Donald Trump's tariffs. The EV mandate will be paused as the government conducts a 60-day review of the policy, and will be waived for 2026 models. Sources told CBC News that the review will look at the entire mandate and next steps.
"We have an auto sector which, because of the massive change in U.S. policy, is under extreme pressure. We recognize that," Carney said at a news conference in Mississauga, Ont. "They've got enough on their plate right now. So we're taking that off." The government is using the review as part of broader look at all the government's climate measures, he added. [...]
Brian Kingston, president of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, called it "an important first step." "The EV mandate imposes unsustainable costs on auto manufacturers, putting at risk Canadian jobs and investment in this critical sector of the economy," he said in a statement. "A full repeal of the regulation is the most effective way to provide immediate relief to the industry and keep it competitive."
"We have an auto sector which, because of the massive change in U.S. policy, is under extreme pressure. We recognize that," Carney said at a news conference in Mississauga, Ont. "They've got enough on their plate right now. So we're taking that off." The government is using the review as part of broader look at all the government's climate measures, he added. [...]
Brian Kingston, president of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, called it "an important first step." "The EV mandate imposes unsustainable costs on auto manufacturers, putting at risk Canadian jobs and investment in this critical sector of the economy," he said in a statement. "A full repeal of the regulation is the most effective way to provide immediate relief to the industry and keep it competitive."
No kidding (Score:2)
You can't have an EV mandate unless you have charging infrastructure in place first. The Chinese and the Norwegians got that part right.
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I’ve noticed lots of chargers in small towns and at restaurants in Ontario. Granted they’re level 2 but it’s still infrastructure. Also spotted a few Vinfast cars which surprised me.
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There are quite a few Vinfast cars going around, I wondered if people were importing them individually but then I spotted a Vinfast dealership off the highway (401 I think?) next to a Lotus dealership.
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People are buying Vinfast? They're the butt of jokes in Viet Nam (everyone wants a Toyota or Honda). They don't meet Australian standards and can't be imported. Why are Canadians buying them?
Existing gas stations the real future of charging (Score:2)
I’ve noticed lots of chargers in small towns and at restaurants in Ontario. Granted they’re level 2 but it’s still infrastructure. Also spotted a few Vinfast cars which surprised me.
We have lots of chargers put into odd locations to capture government grants. Hence the problem in the USA of chargers built on some available land, possibly a little out of the way, and not maintained. The gov't grants paid for construction, not maintenance. So there was some build and abandon sort of scamming going on. Classic well intended gov't program that had a superficial analysis and they didn't really consider unintended consequences and scammers.
The real solution to charging infrastructure is t
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The real solution to charging infrastructure is to slowly convert individual gas pumps to EV chargers at a rate the match local EV adoption. We've had nearly a 100 years of a Darwinian process determining where people tend to need to refuel, the land and businesses are already in place. A charger merely needs to replace a pump.
Due to the difference in charge time vs pump rate it takes multiple chargers to replace one pump to maintain the vehicles serviced per hour rate. Time how long it takes you to fill up your car next time and compare that to how long it takes to fully charge an EV and you'll see what I mean. The charging tech isn't quite there yet but it's getting closer. At which point it will take a serious upgrade to the electrical distribution system along with load leveling batteries at the station to deal with this.
T
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The EV mandates are all political theatre (Score:3)
You can't have an EV mandate unless you have charging infrastructure in place first.
The EV mandates are all political theatre. They are just pandering to voters who vote based on virtual signaling rather than actual accomplishments.
These mandates are set in the distant enough future to not impact the virtue signaling politician at the time they issue the mandate. Many will have moved on to different roles by the target date, it won't be their problem.
That future office holder will feel no obligation to accept the negative consequences of the previous office holder's PR stunt.
When
Never trust a politician with a 10 year plan (Score:2)
How is it that I'm to trust a 10 yer plan from any politician when so few can be expected to stay in office long enough to see this plan to the end? As an example I can recall Democrat politicians for POTUS proudly explaining their 10 year plan when the constitution prevents them from staying in office for 10 years. Why is it that so few called them out on this? I have my suspicions but I'd like to see others present their own theories.
Not only is a 10 year plan from any politician rarely anything seriou
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Because of this issue and generally that nothing is ever final and also that politicians just say whatever's convenient at the time, someecades ago someone mentioned to me that you shouldn't get caught up in specific politicians but in political parties instead.
And in the US since we only have two parties, really i think it's more about picking, supporting or building think tanks, PACs, and other organizations around the specific policies you care about so that they can always apply pressure (and money) in
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There never was CLEAN coal; it was pure propaganda. Carbon Capture is a half measure weak compromise; because carbon is really entrenched and voters won't actually do shit unless it's a war with immediate impact/threat to themselves. Carbon taxes are a similar problem. Is there a party that runs on selfishness who will exacerbate resistance to change? Yup. and a whole economic system that promotes selfish consumerism, childishness, and thoughtlessness.
Air scrubbing wasn't even really part of it - the air s
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Isn't a main complaint with politicians/parties is they only focus on their own term, and don't make any long-term plans?
Shit or get off the pot.
10yr plans are fine. BAD 10yr plans are a problem. Same with short term plans.
Sad but probably good (Score:2)
With the current economic war being waged on Canada by the US, and the disruption to our auto sector which is a huge economic component in Canada, it's probably a good idea to back off for now.
Cars are expensive enough as it is, and we've built cities that basically require cars in order to work and live for 99% of the population. The environment's going to have to take a back seat.
You might say, "let China in", but while we'd get cheap EVs we'd also lose our auto sector overnight. They can build a factor
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I'm a fan of union jobs, but I think we might have to let this fight go. The tariffs on Chinese EVs means that a lot of our farmers are getting demolished by counter-tariffs on canola and whatnot. There's a tradeoff to be made here, and given that we really should be moving away from ICE vehicles, we may need to bite the bullet and wind down car manufacturing here. Or get some Chinese companies to set up shop so we can move the workers to those.
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China can not be depended upon long term. Even though the interconnectedness with the US became the first to cause massive disruption, doesn't mean you should now dig your grave with China even deeper.
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You couldn't probably dig a deeper grave than working with the USA as it's falls. Canada is still on track to be USA's Austria before WW3.
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Canada needs to be economically independent of the United States but we've spent decades chasing prosperity by integrating with a massive English-speaking, similar-culture, geographically convenient economy on our southern border. It's going to hurt, and it's just a matter of time because the US is going to continue to turn the screws until they won't turn any further. Even if everything went perfectly smoothly, we're not going to be more prosperous by sealing off that border and attempting to trade aroun
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Nobody's asking to DEPEND on China, but we already import a shittonne of stuff from them, why not cars? The whole point is to untether ourselves from any industry or nation that demands that we go all-in on them. That means we import Chinese cars while they're a good deal. If they stop being good for us, we'll import something else. Or build something else. But the status quo is busted as hell.
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How about COMPETING? The extreme protectionism only made the USA and Canada weaker. The Japanese destroying their auto industry with superior cars was survived with some protectionism - but that just promoted trucks and truck-based cars; which made more long term problems while buying a little time for their cars to catch up. This is a much bigger more complex gap to fill which could have been planned for in advance but was not. We could all see EVs were the future for a long time but put off doing anythin
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I'm also for this, yes. I agree that the protectionism has done us no good.
Well, don't wait for me..... (Score:2)
Cue Environmental Annie! (Score:3)
why (Score:2)
"Canada accounts for approximately 1.4% of global greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions"
They are idiots.
Re: Canada! (Score:3)
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All of them are deeply disconnected from real life. Poilievre isn't just a career politician, he's literally held no other jobs at all. He loves talking about how the government spends too much money on whatever, and HE'S what we've been spending money on. He hates unions and loves oil, and that's it.
I didn't vote for either of these dipstick parties. They're responsible for literally 100% of the Federal governments going back to Confederation; there is nobody else to blame. There have been precious few fed
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Poilievre isn't just a career politician, he's literally held no other jobs at all.
Way to encourage young people to get into politics :-)
He loves talking about how the government spends too much money on whatever
They do. Trudeau doubled our national debt. Carney is spending even faster. Your great great grandkids will still be paying interest on it. Probably to Carney's great great grandkids.
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Way to encourage young people to get into politics :-)
It used to be that being a politician was a part time job. There would be exceptions for administrative positions like POTUS, governor, mayor, and sheriff. Legislators, like those in US Congress, used to be expected to meet once or twice in a year to attend to a budget and changes to law, then bugger off for the rest of the year to be farmers, craftsmen, or whatever. Some states have a legislature that meets only every other year, they seem to do fine getting people into politics without it being a distr
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I don't dispute either of these things. And Cretien/Martin slashed the budget and balanced it...but set the stage for decades of housing under-development by stopping the CMHC from building social housing like they used to. Stephen Harper ALSO failed to balance the budget except when he was HANDED a balanced budget.
Again, both these parties are truly awful. We really need a proportional system so we don't end up with 4 years of bozos replaced eventually by some other bozo for another 4 year kick at the can.
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Cretien/Martin slashed the budget and balanced it...but set the stage for decades of housing under-development by stopping the CMHC from building social housing like they used to. Stephen Harper ALSO failed to balance the budget except when he was HANDED a balanced budget.
I'm also old enough to remember when the debt was a few hundred billion. At that time there was a small but still realistic possibility of paying it down, it would have required some sacrifices, but it was possible. I think it is safe to say now as our debt approaches 2 trillion that none of it is ever going to be paid off in any meaningful way, it is now just a permanent drain on the public finances, like a credit card you have no way to pay off and just keep making the minimum payment on, forever. I'm
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Why won’t Poilievre get his security clearance ?
I have to take him at his word that he does not believe a blanket and permanent muzzle serves the people well. I'm actually inclined to agree given secrecy under the guise of "national security" or "parliamentary privilege" seems to be a frequent cover for various malfeasance. You know what they say about sunlight being the best disinfectant. Good on him not joining the "not allowed to ever tell anyone anything" club, because it's permanent. They can revoke your clearance, but you are still bound by its terms forever.
Nah, that's BS. As far as I can tell PP refused the clearance so he would have an excuse to demand it be public (so he could see the report) at best, and at worst not seeing gave him more latitude to scaremonger.
The guy literally went into an election campaign willingly blindfolded about foreign attempts to infiltrate his party. That's damn close to disqualifying in my book.
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As far as I can tell PP refused the clearance so he would have an excuse to demand it be public
It should be public.
The guy literally went into an election campaign willingly blindfolded about foreign attempts to infiltrate his party.
If you know about it I'm guessing he probably does too.
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So....having a babysitter or someone mow your lawn disqualifies you from the lived experiences of everyday people?
Disclaimer: personally, I can't afford either of those.
No. Think more nanny and topiarist than babysitter and lawn service. I'm pretty sure you understand my point and are just being pedantic.
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I have no idea what topiarist is.
But I don't think having a nanny disqualifies someone from understanding the lived experiences of "ordinary" people - not by a long shot, for a variety of reasons.
Carney is fiscally conservative (Score:2)
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Re:Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
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I do take your point that he has not done a much yet other than react to Trump but what things he has done suggest a far more reasonable, mat
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He's taken steps towards enabling national infrastructure projects again, removed the need for researchers to write EDI statements to get grants and removed the carbon tax.
I'm one of the few people who can apparently remember 8 years ago when there was a newly elected Trump in office and big tariffs and much talk about diversification of trade. And what came of that? Nothing at all. I expect the same this time. They will talk a good game and do little. Alberta might take the initiative and try to get some things done quickly. They are probably the only jurisdiction competent enough to do so.
I am glad to see the carbon tax gone, but rest assured that was purely politi
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What is also funny is the talk about how it's rude of us to leave our grandkids a climate full of CO2, but apparently it's totally OK to leave them a racked up credit card that they will have to make the minimum interest paym
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I don't know what the answer is, but unless you do, maybe you shouldn't be quite so critical.
The answer hasn't changed, it is the same as it has always been. Don't spend more than you can afford as a matter of regular routine. Emergencies like COVID are exceptions. Completely unfunded luxuries like dental care not so much. That's like putting new carpets in your house with a leaky roof. And financing them.
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How do you budget at home knowing you can't borrow forever? The difficult of choosing has no bearing at all on the fact they are spending money they don't have. You sound like an addict trying to justify t
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Well, if companies don't give workers a raise over three years and there is 10% inflation, then not only are those workers making 10% less real money wise but the government has 10% less as well.
I think I averaged 2% per year over my 30 year career. Of course I made much more when I retired than when I started because I moved up to better positions over time. I'm pretty sure this is still possible since I see other people's kids doing it, but I will concede motivation and ability are highly variable things. That said the average standard of living has improved greatly over that time. Even poor people have cars and $1000 computers in their pockets now. I think a lot of the problem stems from a
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This is the problem. It always comes down to removing things that other people need.
That is certainly a problem that once you give people something you can never take it away. It makes perpetually increasing budget deficits almost foregone conclusion. In any case people should quit complaining how hard life is when government spends more on them than it ever has in our entire history.
What needs to be made more clear to people that they are not paying for it, their kids are. We currently pay ~$60 billion/yr in interest on the debt. That would pay for both dental care and pharma care,
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Re:EV in Canada (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of EVs where I live. They're fine in winter. Even in Edmonton those -40 temps are the exception rather than the norm. And even then, the car will still work perfectly fine at those temps, albeit with reduced range. Unlike ICE cars which may not even start and may need to be boosted.
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Parts of Norway are in the Arctic Circle, and they don't have any issues with EVs. In fact it's got to the point where it's inconvenient not to have one, with petrol stations being converted to chargers and the performance benefits of EVs in cold weather being obvious to most people.
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Re: EV in Canada (Score:2)
which doesn't make a damn bit of difference for the temperature, and Norway has the most EVs per capita as well. With part of Norway being in the Arctic it's safe to say they understand something about low temps and EVs.
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What does it matter though?
Both countries have similar average kilometres per year driven. Both countries have electricity and cold climates.
There will always be niche applications where fossil fuels are needed, but for example I just had a look on A Better Route Planner, which in my experience tends to be pessimistic, to see what it would take to travel from Vancouver to Quebec. A 3 day road trip in both a fossil and an EV, and no charging issues along the way, no areas that aren't served. From what I unde
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I didn't need to use it, I just used it to see what the situation was like in Canada.
These days I don't plan when I go on trips, at least no more than I used to in a fossil, i.e. on a 6+ hour drive to a new place, where are are decent cafes or things where I can stretch my legs for half an hour?
Both my car's nav and Google Maps have charger info with live data showing how many are in use. Everywhere I see there are loads of them, and there are always some free. Sometimes I'll see if there are any nearby Tes
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My wife is like that, she likes to bring a flask and just stretch her legs a bit. I like to enjoy these kinds of things a bit, maybe have some food I wouldn't normally eat.
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On-device maps. Signs. The same way you find petrol.
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Yeah, same as petrol. Some show the price too, like they show petrol prices.
There are some places that are guaranteed to have them, like every motorway service area in the country has chargers. They were one of the first places to get them. IIRC it's been that way since around 2013.
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Shit, many of us are old enough to remember having to plug your ICE car in overnight so it would start in the morning.
EV is GREAT for ultra cold weather, because you can pre-heat without needing to worry about the engine.
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Norway seems to have it figured out. 90% of new vehicles are EVs. https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
When it hits -40 everyone is using electric engine block heaters anyhow.
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Which has nothing to do with the claim that EVs don't work in cold weather.
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Norway has entered the chat
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EVs in Canada wouldn't seem to be a good fit given the winter temperatures of -40. Vancouver BC is warmer, but Edmonton certainly isn't.
I'm in the Edmonton area, -40 happens, but it's pretty rare (especially with global warming).
And cold does hurt the range, but it's not insurmountable.
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When I buy a vehicle I don't want any obstacles to using it, even surmountable ones. That just means your 40k vehicle is a pain in your ass.
You know what else happens in -40C? Your oil turns to sludge and the weakened battery in your ICE vehicle is unable to get the engine running.
I'd rather an EV with reduced range than my ICE car not starting.
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Plugging in your car while parked? Assuming there is an outlet near by, you have an extension cord, and your heater cable is in good shape?
I thought you didn't want any obstacles to using your vehicle.
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Re:EV in Canada (Score:5, Informative)
You ever tried to start a petrol or diesel car in -40? I hope you plugged it in overnight, or it's not going anywhere. So no matter what, you have to plug your car in when it's -40C.
A mechanical engineer can probably answer this better than me, but I'd wager that the sheer number of moving parts in a normal ICE vehicle means that -40 is actually much worse them than for an EV. I know from experience riding bicycles (in Edmonton) in the winter that basically nothing works properly below -30C. The grease doesn't lubricate anything anymore, the chain freezes, the brakes barely stop you because the compounds have no grip at that temperature. I'm sure once the car manages to get up to operating temperature things are mostly fine, but that's a lot of thermal expansion and contraction.
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Yeah, and range is reduced in an ICE vehicle in the winter too. The cold spares no mechanism. (Diesel is further set back because of the additives that are put in to prevent the fuel from gelling in the tank. That starts even before it gets cold.)
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If you don't plan correctly in an ICE, it doesn't start at all. The 12v battery won't turn your engine over.
There are drawbacks to EVs still, for sure, but we talk about ICE vehicles like they've solved the problem of extreme temperatures better and they really haven't.
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No one is really designing consumer EVs for very long winters, but a glycol cooled battery with vacuum insulation panels would require next to no power to keep warm if they actually build them.
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You are the horse owner who refused to buy a car. Your days are numbered. You may never be banned from the roads but you'll find it increasingly difficult; you are too old to see the end of the transition but since it's only about YOU then none of this should matter much. It's not like you couldn't import an ICE car or find some loophole.
Lifting the ban won't make Canada more competitive as the world moves forward but the domestic market is by far the biggest customer so the competition is largely local; yo
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EVs are the future; most people realize this.
YOUR preferences are not important to me. The harm your preferences cause the rest of us is important to the rest of us.
You cherry picked modern cars to compare to a horse to setup a strawman to attack the analogy unfairly. If you are going to attack the historic analogy in this way you undermine your greater argument because you are comparing a century later evolution of a car which was not much of an improvement over the horse when the transition was going on.
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I'd make an old joke... but I'm probably older.
I can explain it to you but I can't comprehend it for you. Furthermore, I don't think you want to understand anymore than somebody who makes their living off ICE and not EV.
We'll both be dead before the climate gets really bad; the difference is that I care about my contribution to the problem and you do not. I'd suspect you have no children; which might make it enough about YOU to have a little concern.