Apache Software Foundation Unveils Its Branding Overhaul With New Logo, 'The ASF' Name (phoronix.com) 78
The Apache Software Foundation has unveiled a major branding overhaul that retires its three-decade-old feather logo after criticism from Native American activists. In its place is a new oak leaf design to symbolize endurance, resilience, and global reach. Along with the new visual identity, the group will emphasize "The ASF" as its shorthand name while keeping its full legal title intact.
Apache.org explained: "The oak is one of the most enduring trees and is found around the world. It grows slowly but steadily, supporting vast ecosystems and lasting for centuries. In the same way, The ASF has served as a stable, resilient steward of open source for more than 25 years and is looking to the long future ahead. Choosing the oak leaf as our new logo represents the enduring power of our ethos: community over code."
Apache.org explained: "The oak is one of the most enduring trees and is found around the world. It grows slowly but steadily, supporting vast ecosystems and lasting for centuries. In the same way, The ASF has served as a stable, resilient steward of open source for more than 25 years and is looking to the long future ahead. Choosing the oak leaf as our new logo represents the enduring power of our ethos: community over code."
Question (Score:3, Interesting)
Was the criticism from activists with a Native American heritage or was it from "Native American activists" who happened to be white liberal women who, for whatever reason, want to see all references to Native America removed from modern society?
Re: Question (Score:2)
That was my first thought.
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What does the name of a tribe have to do with software? The Apache Server project was a tongue and cheek reference for the code being “patchy”
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What does the name of a tribe have to do with software?
Are you kidding? That's some Tucker Carlson level pretense.
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That is the story, although there are some conflicting stories so it's not really clear whether "a patchy server" came before or after using the Apache name.
Either way, as far as Native American references go, I find the use by the Apache Foundation to be relatively benign.
While all the reactionaries in this thread (like the first post) are completely ridiculous with how quickly they pulled out their soapboxes to decry cultural sensitivity as "anti-white" while demonizing liberal white women, there is a sma
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Either way, as far as Native American references go, I find the use by the Apache Foundation to be relatively benign.
On one hand, sure, it is that. On the other, it's still cultural appropriation, and the fact that it's using "apache" to refer to something which is "patchy" isn't positive either.
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What does the name "Uber" have to do with personal transporation?
What does the name "Amazon" have to do with buying cheap chinese shit and running cloud services?
What does the name "Stellantis" have to do with manufacturing cars?
What does the name of basically any company have to do with what they actually do?
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Was the criticism from activists with a Native American heritage or was it from "Native American activists" who happened to be white liberal women who, for whatever reason, want to see all references to Native America removed from modern society?
My first thought. Liberal "white" women seem to be on a journey to erase anything other than "white". Indeed, after all the fuss and muss over the Washington Redskin football team, leading to them changing their name to the Washington Commanders, they have been sued by the Native American Guardians Association https://www.nagaeducation.org/ [nagaeducation.org] .
The same thing happened to Aunt Jemima. As a child, I loved Aunt Jemima, the smiling sweet woman who brought me delicious pancakes and syrup.
Nancy Green, born int
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Totally agree that there's a big big problem with confusing "appropriation" or borrowing with misappropriation. When people stop wearing Mexican hats, it's the Mexicans producing hats that lose money and the Mexicans walking down the street that feel more alone. However I looked at the Aunt Jemima story and it seems, following references from the Wikipedia, like other sources disagree with ABC and Nancy Green was an employee hired after the recipe was invented:
https://aaregistry.org/story/n... [aaregistry.org]
https://en.wik [wikipedia.org]
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As a child, I loved Aunt Jemima, the smiling sweet woman who brought me delicious pancakes and syrup.
I can relate. As a child I had repeated schizophrenic episodes wherein Cap'n Crunch brought me breakfast. But he also made me walk the plank!
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As a child, I loved Aunt Jemima, the smiling sweet woman who brought me delicious pancakes and syrup.
I can relate. As a child I had repeated schizophrenic episodes wherein Cap'n Crunch brought me breakfast. But he also made me walk the plank!
Doggonit, that's funny! I was molested by Count Chocula myself.
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on a journey to erase anything other than "white"
Um, projection? httpd with no explicit cultural references, is "white"? That's your neutral? Doesn't THAT say something?
It is how they identify, toaster monkey. Not me, "Liberal white women" is a self identified group. They are female, liberal in teh present day sense, and consider themselves "white" Race is a social construct, nothing more - nothing less. The elevation of entire systems based on ridiculously insignificant differences in DNA. Homo sapiens sapiens is a pretty homogenous group, among which all members can procreate. The minuscule differences are not even remotely speciation - rather than tiny differences bas
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which "people" murdered Charlie Kirk?
Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)
You were born long after slavery had been eradicated. The culture in which you were raised was marked by many years of change. As such, much of the significance of the name "Aunt Jemima" and the imagery associated with it was lost on you. All it ever meant to you was "smiling sweet woman who brought me delicious pancakes and syrup," because you never experienced the use of the phrase as a racial slur, nor the depiction of servile black women as a slavery-associated image. You were simply too far removed from those historical roots.
But the historical roots are still there, and those who have studied their history know them. Personally, I don't know precisely who stirred up the controversy over this, and I have no idea how many "liberal white women" were involved, nor how many people of other genders and skin colors were involved. But I DO know that they have a solid case that these terms are tainted by harmful historical use, and that is enough of a reason to replace them.
So I don't see this event as evidence of some widespread, racist, movement to erase anything other than white. Maybe such a movement exists, I am not arguing against that, I am just not sure that this is the best example, given the legitimacy of the complaint.
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You were born long after slavery had been eradicated. The culture in which you were raised was marked by many years of change. As such, much of the significance of the name "Aunt Jemima" and the imagery associated with it was lost on you.
I was born into a family that emigrated from Eastern Europe around 50 years after the civil war ended. Give me your thesis that I am responsible for slavery in the USA. Give me the proof that I am responsible for all the problems experienced by native Americans. Give me your thesis on how my love of Aunt Jemima is wrong, and that if I did, I was being a bigoted racist by not being mortally offended.
the US treatment Give me your thesis on how removing the feather is going clear up anything.
If you convi
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What are you even talking about? I didn't say anything at all along the lines of what you are calling my "thesis". I am not blaming your for anything.
I was talking about historical use of words. "Aunt Jemima" as a slang term; the female version of "Uncle Tom." That is what the company wants to distance itself from.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Re: (Score:2)
What are you even talking about? I didn't say anything at all along the lines of what you are calling my "thesis". I am not blaming your for anything.
I was talking about historical use of words. "Aunt Jemima" as a slang term; the female version of "Uncle Tom." That is what the company wants to distance itself from.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Allow me to elucidate - because you brought up the time of birth a somehow making some point. I shall refresh your memory:
I copypasted your comment "You were born long after slavery had been eradicated. The culture in which you were raised was marked by many years of change. As such, much of the significance of the name "Aunt Jemima" and the imagery associated with it was lost on you.
So I must apologize if me expanding on my birth date and background within the context of what you wrote, but also have
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Oh you are just trolling. Ok. So that is why you accused me of saying things I didn't say, and believing things I don't believe. And also that's why you keep changing the subject to things outside the scope of my statements (but that are clearly more interesting to you).
Though I suspect there is a big hearty dose of generalizing in your responses, too. You seem to have lumped me in with a group of extremists, based on basically zero evidence.
So, it's clearly a discussion in bad faith. You are going to
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I learned a great word that describes all that concisely. The word is "performative".
Such bad faith + perception is reality. (Score:2)
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The thing about symbols is that it doesn't matter what the original meaning was or what you think it should be....perception is reality. If people perceive it to be bigoted...well...it's a symbol of bigotry. However, Apache is a serious software organization. Maybe they'd rather just move on and not deal with the pushback...even if you think those pushing back are morons...well...they're running a business and want to focus on delivering great software, not debating if their name and feather are offensive of not.
There is a problem with your thesis. If some people think it is bigoted, therefore making it reality and mandatory to remove, What is not bigoted?
Is it wisdom and inclusive to scrub every "Indian" name from the english language? And every thing that Native Americans have ever had anything to do with?
So tell me, after you have made the language perfect, after removing every mention of Native Americans, and dark skinned people, What exactly have you accomplished? Insults are one thing, bigotry is another
and the Dutch like Pepe Le Pew? (Score:3)
There is a problem with your thesis. If some people think it is bigoted, therefore making it reality and mandatory to remove, What is not bigoted?
Is it wisdom and inclusive to scrub every "Indian" name from the english language? And every thing that Native Americans have ever had anything to do with?
So tell me, after you have made the language perfect, after removing every mention of Native Americans, and dark skinned people, What exactly have you accomplished? Insults are one thing, bigotry is another, but appeasing the far left, so they can achieve some kind of purity, even when many simply do not care, Wha you have done is erased entire groups from the lexicon.
Speedy Gonzales, the Fast Mexican mouse that many LLW's and other leftists find terribly offensive and in need of cancellation, is loved by many Hispanics. https://www.huffpost.com/entry... [huffpost.com] So who holds sway - the perpetually offended? Speaking of Hispanics, the left wants to call Hispanics Latinx, which many if not most Hispanics loathe, and consider bigoted, Yet the far left insists they know better than the people who are presumably offended Here is https://www.bu.edu/articles/20... [bu.edu] .
FOr you see, as nice as it is to scrub the lexicon, the people who demand it are just as bad as the people who thought they were honoring native Americans by naming teams and other associations after them.
Anyhow, I wouldn't expect any more offensive terms being bandied about, since the crybullies must be obeyed, lest.... well, what exactly will happen if the crybullies are ignored?
It is remarkably stupid to be trying to stop the problems of racial bigotry by acting like the removal of the A****e feather is of any help.
Very simply, their job is to make software, not promote or fight bigotry. There are dedicated organizations for that. Is a feather and the name Apache offensive? Unless you're a member of the Apache tribe, I don't honestly give a shit what you think. I'll let them decide. They have standing. I don't give a shit either way. I do care a lot about the Apache foundation as they've made many of my favorite tools.
Regarding Speedy Gonzales. Fuck the fuck off. Are you really that fucking ignorant? The
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Regarding Speedy Gonzales. Fuck the fuck off. Are you really that fucking ignorant? There are over 20 Hispanic countries, only 1 has standing in this debate. Saying Hispanics love a Mexican stereotype is like saying Europeans like Pepe Le Pew...how much do you care if the Bulgarians and Russians like him? As a partial Hispanic, I find it to be lame, but...I'm not Mexican nor have any Mexican heritage first of all and secondly, I have a million other things that upset me more that I think matter...but the same fucking principle applies. Do the Looney Tunes creators want to take a stand on lame, dated Mexican stereotypes?....or do they just want to delight children with cartoons? I'd wager they dropped it because they want the conversation to be how delightful Space Jam is and not people questioning if their cartoons are objectionable or not.
Perhaps you should tell those people who like Pepe to as you put it with such elegant and winning manner "Fuck the fuck off. Are you really that fucking ignorant?"
Read my post, and go to my links, and still call me ignorant? I find people who cannot make a post without using crude terms like you use offensive, yet I cannot scrub them from the lexicon, so here you are sounding like a low IQ person lacking the ability to talk like an intelligent person.
Now if you want to allow your blood pressure to n
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They've done this with every meaningful cultural and corporate heritage item in our world. It's disgusting.
You don't honor the heritage of a people by removing all symbolic representations of that culture from public life. The Spartans and Centurions were millennia ago but still have strong, important cultural imagery for today: the same is true of the Apache. The apache were known for being mobile and adaptable, which arguably is something very true of the Apache foundation.
Removing these imageries results
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Yea, maybe I'm just dreaming it but I thought this had come up once before and the ASF backpedaled on the name change after actual Apaches stepped forward and insisted they weren't actually offended.
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I often term such people "Campaigners for Kicks". People addicted to the hit of winning a campaign for change, regardless of whether that change was good or not.
It's a distraction regardless of merit. (Score:2)
we own all feathers! (Score:5, Insightful)
Any group that complains they should be the only ones to use something as common as a generic feather in their logo loses all my respect.
And I don't like other groups caving to complaints like this because it sets a terrible example.
Re: we own all feathers! (Score:2)
in my hometown Ghent in Belgium our football club AA Gent is known as the Buffalos. the team logo shows a Native American head with a feathered headdress and the female mascot is called Squaw Mel. it goes back more than a hundred years. when Buffalo Billâ(TM)s Wild West Show came to town in the early 1900s students at the university started calling each other Buffalo and yelling it at matches. it stuck, spread through the city and eventually became the team s identity. the problem is that what once see
Re:we own all feathers! (Score:4, Insightful)
I would wager it was less the feather, and more about doubling down on 'Apache' by adding the feather.
It all started with "hah, it's funny that "A patchy webserver" sounds like "Apache". Then when it actually took off, they retconned it as honoring the Native Americans, despite pretty much being a bunch of white guys with no particular affiliation with the people the name would represent.
I generally think the 'cultural appropriation' sorts of complaints are frequently overblown, but this seems a bit much. Without any context, one would reasonably assume 'The Apache Software Foundation' would have at least something to do with Native American involvement, despite it not being the case.
So I can see that 'ASF' being a compromise makes sense, the feather to leaf however might be an overreaction, but ultimately harmless.
Frankly in general I don't put a whole lot of weight behind ASF nor the LSF as they both got turned into more marketing assets for corps than curating some cohesive software sentiment across a portfolio.
Re: (Score:2)
the feather to leaf however might be an overreaction, but ultimately harmless.
Is it harmless? That's an opinion. Not one I share either.
Is the change an overreaction? That's also an opinion. My answer is, it is no more an "over reaction" than people clammoring for the change in the first place is .
Why is it NOT an overreaction when a feather needs to be changed because someone somewhere was offended, and removing it offends someone else? Who's Offense Matters MORE? Is it offensive or is it honoring? That is the real question and who gets to decide?
And Who gets to decide who decides?
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Changing a feather to a leaf seems a weird thing to consider harmful. A leaf is supremely uncontroversial and it's not like the feather was somehow core to why anyone should, even in theory, care about the ASF.
I don't know but *suspect* the people that were concerned would have been sufficiently satisfied by removing "Apache" and ignoring the feather, hence my theory that it's probably more reaction than was strictly called for.
I'm not exactly sure about the 'real' problem in this front. In my opinion the c
not their problem to solve (Score:2)
Why is it NOT an overreaction when a feather needs to be changed because someone somewhere was offended, and removing it offends someone else? Who's Offense Matters MORE? Is it offensive or is it honoring? That is the real question and who gets to decide?
And Who gets to decide who decides? Thats the real problem.
But it's not their problem to solve. The Apache Tribe is not involved one way or the other. This is a bunch of nerds who had nothing to do with the tribe and came up with a cute name when they were tiny and off the radar. Now they're a multi-million dollar organization. Culture war bullshit is a distraction from the mission of making great software.
Your bullshit is pushing your view on them. They don't want to be part of the discussion. They don't care which side is right...they just want to make
Re:we own all feathers! (Score:4, Funny)
WWW now stands for Woke White Women, apparently.
Re: (Score:2)
WWW now stands for Woke White Women, apparently.
PAWGs are where it's at, but hey anything can be porn if you work hard enough dude.
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Any group that complains they should be the only ones to use something as common as a generic feather
Who did? Or are you making that up.
SO close. (Score:3, Interesting)
Make it the Apache Software Development Foundation and it'd be the easy-to-type ASDF.
(Oh, but wait, MIT already has an ASDF, the Autonomous Systems Development Facility.)
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Can I call out Trump’s DEI hires? I’ve listed a number of them previously.
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Racism and sexism is wrong, from whichever side it comes.
Re:Fuck "acivists" everywhere (Score:4, Informative)
Trump’s entire cabinet was hired from a basis other than merit. Is that not what the complaint against DEI is about?
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If Trump is hiring white men because they are white men, please do call him out.
Racism and sexism is wrong, from whichever side it comes.
Guy, that's not it. I don't want to sound ableist but man they're all handicapped. I'm all for diversity and I fully support the mentally handicapped and any way we can enrich their lives let's do it, it's just that... don't you think it's a little extreme to put them in cabinet positions? I'll say it, it's cruel.
Look at poor Pete Hegseth, my man just wants to play softball, can't you see it in his eyes? It's fucking cold what you're doing to him and it brings me to tears. We should be reading Betsy DeVos b
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I prefer main. It's shorter and easier to type. Definitely an improvement given how many times a day I type it.
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Something to bring together everyone who has had enough of prejudice, the calculated prejudice of the left, the mindless prejudice of the right, all of it.
"DND" for "Do Not Discriminate" ?
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We need to start a movement. Something to bring together everyone who has had enough of prejudice, the calculated prejudice of the left, the mindless prejudice of the right, all of it. "DND" for "Do Not Discriminate" ?
The left has some of the most racist people in the USA. They simply have a different "race" they want cancelled. Along with non-racist attributions like the Apache feather and Aunt Jemima. And their racism is cloaked as being against racism. The LWW's are probably led by the Phillies Karen.
Note for people - I do not identify the LWW's by race, I merely use their definition of "race" for illustrative purposes, because it gets tedious to explain that race is a social construct for ridiculously small diff
Why does it gotta be a white oak leaf? (Score:2)
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You might want to schedule an eye exam if you think that leaf is white.
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Maybe ASF just likes whiskey.
White oak has more tyloses and a tighter grain structure than other oak varieties, which cause its barrels to be more waterproof. It chars better. And it generally wins most taste tests. It's just perfect for barrel aging.
Save your red oaks for furniture.
Re: (Score:2)
The kitchen cabinets in the house that ASF grew up in were made of white oak.
It's a nostalgia thing.
that makes sense (Score:2)
Re:that makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
I could see HTTP/3 as a bit more of a tricky thing for Apache. Other servers largely declined to have 'in-server' extensions and they get more freedom with how they treat network sockets.
Apache has a lot more things that are implemented as fairly intrusive extensions, and I could imagine a change from TCP to UDP being a more difficult thing to navigate.
If you have need of some of those, HTTP/3 is probably a broader problem for you anyway. If you don't need those extensions, then switching to something like nginx isn't a huge burden, and the default performance in nginx tends to be better than apache except for some of those select extensions.
But the ASF barely cares about Apache. It was the kindling to spark a 'foundation' when 'LAMP' was all the rage, but now it has next to nothing to do with anything they bother to think about and only remains as a residual brand from their heyday of the 90s to early 2000s.
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Perhaps it is my years in large-scale website traffic... but I fail to see the point of HTTP/2 or HTTP/3 in origin servers.
Edge/proxy servers? Sure. and yes, Apache *can* be used as a proxy server, but I don't think anyone uses it at scale for that.
HTTP/2 is optimized for single-user sessions with HPACK plus header-deduplication [e.g. Cookie headers]. HTTP/3 is basically HTTP/2 over UDP.
Neither are useful for origin servers, where connections are likely to be re-used for different users and there's not much
What a great idea... (Score:1)
What a great idea...
Should have fun with it (Score:1)
I'm Italian... (Score:4, Informative)
I see loads of "italian" restaurants with the italian flag as their logo. The food is vaguely italian and often, though bearing italian names, doesn't even exist in this country (fetuccine alfredo?).
Should I make a fuss about this?
To be fair (Score:2)
They were not initially allowed in to the White People Club [wikipedia.org], and got the Other treatment for quite a while.
As is normal for this sort of thing, it still hasn't entirely faded. I lived in NYC not too far back and heard Italian slurs quite a bit.
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It's all about the clicks/views.
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I see loads of "italian" restaurants with the italian flag as their logo. The food is vaguely italian and often, though bearing italian names, doesn't even exist in this country (fetuccine alfredo?).
Should I make a fuss about this?
Oh you thought that would be a joke? Don't tease. Minimum standards in order to call something Italian. A legit Italian food review board or something. Absofuckinglutely yes.
There's a big fight over Almond "Milk", but you can put mozzarella on Cacio e Pepe and call it Italian. Fuck that like sliced american cheese on lasagna.
Well... (Score:2)
The new logo looks stupid "AS F"
Perhaps they want to avoid distractions? (Score:2)
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Your post offended me - are you going to change it? Highly doubtful.
There is no way in hell you can NOT offed someone in one way or another. If their offended it's their fucking problem! They can either get over it or not. Suck it up buttercup!
The Apache name *honors* the Apache tribe (Score:3)
Why would anyone think it was a put-down? The Apache Foundation is highly respected. What on earth makes anyone think it's an insult to name the foundation after a tribe?
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Why would anyone think it was a put-down? The Apache Foundation is highly respected. What on earth makes anyone think it's an insult to name the foundation after a tribe?
You're upset at someone being upset. Nobody was upset. A group of adults got together and decided to do something different.
Why do you feel upset by this. Why on earth do you feel insulted. How do you not see the irony? I honestly thought the Cracker Barrel episode would expose this kind of tail-eating dumbness.
Do a little reflection and recognize that your feelings aren't from other people being irrationally upset about the status quo, because you certainly didn't know or care if they existed until now, as
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Nobody was upset
If that's true, what does this statement from the summary mean, exactly?
has unveiled a major branding overhaul that retires its three-decade-old feather logo after criticism from Native American activists
Yeah, some activists got upset.
It galls me because this country has turned into a nation of people who take offense at *everything." Aunt Jemima syrup, Cleveland Indians, Buffalo Braves, the list goes on. So many names that a few consider racist, even when the names were meant as a badge of honor. I grew up in the capital city of the Cherokee Nation, Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Cherokees were proud to have things named after them, such as the