The World's EV Owners Discover Unheated Batteries Lose Distance in Freezing Weather (restofworld.org) 173
RestOfWorld.org reports on "a global crisis nobody anticipated when governments started subsidizing electric vehicles..."
"EVs can lose almost half their driving distance when temperatures drop, and the billions spent on improving technology have failed to fix this fundamental limitation." In January, Seattle-based Recurrent, a company that tests and analyzes EVs, found an average range loss of 20% in extreme cold... Lithium-ion batteries rely on chemical reactions that slow dramatically in cold weather. When temperatures plunge, the electrolyte thickens, ions move sluggishly, and charging becomes not just inefficient but potentially dangerous. Charging in cold weather has been identified as a primary cause of thermal acceleration, which can lead to fires...
The failure pattern repeats globally wherever cold weather meets inadequate infrastructure. Manufacturers, too, have acknowledged the problem. Chinese EV maker BYD's user manual, for instance, advises drivers to charge indoors, with the heating on. That advice is useless for farmers parking in open courtyards.
In fact, research across 293 Chinese cities "found that many drivers in colder regions buy EVs only as supplementary vehicles," according to the article, "while still relying on gasoline-powered cars during winter."
The article also tells the story of an apple grower chilly Kashmir, India who discovered that his Chinese three-wheeler lost 60% of its 10-hour charge overnight. This made it impossible to begin the 56-kilometer (35-mile) trip on a route with no charging stations — and prevented him from selling his produce while it was fresh (to earn the highest prices). And the problem affects the entire region: Desperate drivers have formed WhatsApp groups, such as "EV Apple Transporters" and "Battery Help Kashmir," sharing increasingly absurd workarounds. Some have wrapped batteries in quilts; others have hauled power packs weighing 90 kilograms (over 200 pounds) into their homes for the night. One driver parked his battery in the living room. "The blankets caused overheating on the road; water bottles leaked into the circuits," [orchard owner] Sajad Ahmad said. "We became mechanics, engineers, and fools all at once." EVs are also not considered cost-efficient. "Diesel vans are expensive, but they can do four or five trips a day," Mohammad Yaseen, a driver based in Shopian, told Rest of World. "With EVs, one half-trip and you're stuck."
Norway, where winter temperatures average minus 7 degrees Celsius (19 degrees Fahrenheit), achieved 89% EV market share with its comprehensive infrastructure. It offers more than 200 models for year-round usage. "The ability to preheat batteries upon fast charging in winter is by far the most important improvement we have seen in the past five years," Christina Bu, secretary-general of the Norwegian EV Association, told Rest of World.
"These features are standard in Norway's mature market, but remain absent from basic models exported to developing countries."
"EVs can lose almost half their driving distance when temperatures drop, and the billions spent on improving technology have failed to fix this fundamental limitation." In January, Seattle-based Recurrent, a company that tests and analyzes EVs, found an average range loss of 20% in extreme cold... Lithium-ion batteries rely on chemical reactions that slow dramatically in cold weather. When temperatures plunge, the electrolyte thickens, ions move sluggishly, and charging becomes not just inefficient but potentially dangerous. Charging in cold weather has been identified as a primary cause of thermal acceleration, which can lead to fires...
The failure pattern repeats globally wherever cold weather meets inadequate infrastructure. Manufacturers, too, have acknowledged the problem. Chinese EV maker BYD's user manual, for instance, advises drivers to charge indoors, with the heating on. That advice is useless for farmers parking in open courtyards.
In fact, research across 293 Chinese cities "found that many drivers in colder regions buy EVs only as supplementary vehicles," according to the article, "while still relying on gasoline-powered cars during winter."
The article also tells the story of an apple grower chilly Kashmir, India who discovered that his Chinese three-wheeler lost 60% of its 10-hour charge overnight. This made it impossible to begin the 56-kilometer (35-mile) trip on a route with no charging stations — and prevented him from selling his produce while it was fresh (to earn the highest prices). And the problem affects the entire region: Desperate drivers have formed WhatsApp groups, such as "EV Apple Transporters" and "Battery Help Kashmir," sharing increasingly absurd workarounds. Some have wrapped batteries in quilts; others have hauled power packs weighing 90 kilograms (over 200 pounds) into their homes for the night. One driver parked his battery in the living room. "The blankets caused overheating on the road; water bottles leaked into the circuits," [orchard owner] Sajad Ahmad said. "We became mechanics, engineers, and fools all at once." EVs are also not considered cost-efficient. "Diesel vans are expensive, but they can do four or five trips a day," Mohammad Yaseen, a driver based in Shopian, told Rest of World. "With EVs, one half-trip and you're stuck."
Norway, where winter temperatures average minus 7 degrees Celsius (19 degrees Fahrenheit), achieved 89% EV market share with its comprehensive infrastructure. It offers more than 200 models for year-round usage. "The ability to preheat batteries upon fast charging in winter is by far the most important improvement we have seen in the past five years," Christina Bu, secretary-general of the Norwegian EV Association, told Rest of World.
"These features are standard in Norway's mature market, but remain absent from basic models exported to developing countries."
Really??!! (Score:5, Insightful)
a global crisis nobody anticipated
If that's really true, then I'm gobsmacked. But I'm fairly sure that it's just ill-informed hyperbole.
The negative effects of cold temperatures on the useful capacity of various battery chemistries has been know for many decades. If this was news to any significant number of people - and/or nobody put two and two together to predict the "crisis" and mitigate - then educational institutions and governments the world over, as well as electric car companies, have a lot to answer for.
Keep it plugged in (Score:5, Informative)
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I've had a PHEV for six years. It was well known when I bought the car that cold lowered the battery range. The solution is to keep it plugged in. When you tell the car what time you will be leaving in the morning, it will pre-warm the car and batteries using shore power to keep your range up. It will still be less than when it's warm, but it will be far better than starting from freezing.
That's an example on why I expect the ICEV as we know it to become a rarity.
Once we get to where the BEV is no longer a rarity then we'd have more houses where there's a 240 VAC outlet for EV charging in a garage or an outdoor parking pad. With heavy duty shore power that means PHEVs and "electrified" ICEVs can use that shore power for things like automated pre-warming the cabin or whatever to avoid needing to burn fuel for that. I can expect people upset about the thought that a vehicle would be plugged
Re:Keep it plugged in (Score:5, Insightful)
The draw to keep an EV battery heated isn't that much more, and if you have 5 minutes or more lead time it will probably get up to the temperature you want by the time you get in your car. While it takes a bit to get used to turn on the car and then get ready to go, the real world experience is actually much nicer. Just make sure that if you parked outside that you watch for ice from the car having defrosted the windshield and the water going to the ground and freezing.
My experience is that a little bit of extra setup planning and you get a much nicer experience and an annoying experience if you aren't willing to think about your setup when you first get the vehicle.
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Re:Keep it plugged in (Score:5, Informative)
Well, first of all, no, you're not running three thousand-watt block heaters off of one 120v/15a circuit.
Second, actually, you can get chargers like the Grizzl-E Duo that have multiple charging heads off of one circuit.
Third, 'fuel injection' doesn't heat up your oil. Nor does it defrost your windshield.
Re: Keep it plugged in (Score:2)
Re: Keep it plugged in (Score:4, Informative)
Step back and look at what you're arguing about.
An on-call worker that needs to drive somewhere to do their work - these aren't First Responders, these are support workers. If their employer lets them respond from home after-hours, the additional 5-10 minutes to warm the battery is a non-issue.
If they need to leave within seconds of getting the call (why I have no idea) then they could simply keep their car in a garage, protected from the weather extremes.
My mother had a friend in Pittsburgh, PA whose husband was a doctor that made house calls at all hours of the night. As you may know, Pittsburgh is a hilly area and it snows in winter. He had a heated driveway so that he could respond to house calls at anytime without worry about snowfall.
If your job has extreme response requirements, you build your life to meet those needs - it's nothing new.
Re:Keep it plugged in (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, yes, good old fluffernutter, who for some reason hates EVs with a passion.
Having been in this scenario, I can tell you exactly how it works when you have to jump in the car and go somewhere when it's -30c.
"Ok, I understand, I'll be in." *clicks hang-up button.* *opens car app.* *clicks 'climate start.'* *clicks 'winter.'*
Then, you get dressed, grab your stuff, walk outside, unplug the car, climb in to your warmed up, conditioned EV, and toot toot off.
This is as opposed to how this exact scenario worked when I drove an ICE car, which meant either a) going outside, starting the car, and letting it run cold, which is bad, or b) getting in, and driving it slow for the first ten minutes, shivering and trying to breathe as shallowly as possible to keep the inside of the windshield from frosting up.
Or you just jump in the EV and drive off, and it's still going to heat up faster, easier, and cleaner, *and* you're not damaging your engine by trying to push semi-solid oil around.
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The negative effects of cold temperatures on the useful capacity of various battery chemistries has been know for many decades. If this was news to any significant number of people - and/or nobody put two and two together to predict the "crisis" and mitigate - then educational institutions and governments the world over, as well as electric car companies, have a lot to answer for.
The last statement in the summary is the key one: "These features are standard in Norway's mature market, but remain absent from basic models exported to developing countries." That is, the need for heater blocks has been known for a very long time. However, many of the cheap Chinese exports flooding the world are cheap for several reasons, including not including those heater blocks.
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It's funny because TFS summary says it's not an issue in Scandinavia...
Re:Really??!! (Score:5, Informative)
It's news for the common person, who doesn't know anything about battery tech. And that's what happens when you sell products mainstream, as opposed to products for hobbyists.
The article references this being a problem for the 3rd world most of all. For cheap markets. And it is, but we've also seen this in the first world, from companies such as Mitsubishi cutting costs:
https://topclassactions.com/la... [topclassactions.com]
The long story short of the above, if you dig, is that they simply removed the battery warmer. "Why would people in Canada need a battery warmer?", they presumably thought. Bad news for them, their marketing brochures, and website still said it came with a battery warmer. Further dealers and sales at dealers weren't told before the model came out, and most dealers didn't know until customers started getting stranded in -20C weather.
After all, who disassembles an entirely new vehicle's battery pack to see? Especially when Mitsubishi says it has one still.
They also kept this advertising it had a battery warmer for quite some time, despite complaints. I think it was a year+.
Couple that with the next move, they removed the lead acid 12V battery too. While a weight and cost saving measure which makes sense on the surface, with no battery heater, the PHEV couldn't start, as drawing power from a -18C (or some such temp) battery will destroy it. So the computer won't let you draw any power until the battery pack is warmer.
If there was a 12V acid battery, it could start the engine, which could then warm the battery pack via charging, and then you could draw power from it.
So:
- they removed the battery warmer, and lied about it
- they removed the 12V lead acid, without thinking of the consequences (or didn't care)
- people were constantly stranded
Literally not knowing that the battery heater was removed, as the car manual, the documentation on the website, the sales people all said it had one, people would discover this problem in horrible ways. Some would keep their car in a heated garage, then drive to the grocery store, and when coming out the car would be too cold to start. Yay!
I haven't heard of anyone in an emergency, but with zero power and the right conditions, you could literally be stranded on the side of the road. At -40C. With no heater, because no battery. Yes, this could happen with any car breakdown, however this wasn't a car breakdown... this was Mitsubishi being incredibly stupid, cheap, lying about it, pretending there wasn't a problem for more than a year, gaslighting people, the list goes on. And you, dear consume, get to suffer.
I hope Mitsubishi gets completely destroyed and leaves the Canadian market as a result, but we'll see I suppose. Point is, people even selling into Western markets will pull stupid junk like this, because even car manufacturers barely understand it.
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The bigger story with the Mitsubishi Outlander is that, if the claims are true, it apparently shuts down when the battery is too cold. That seems very odd, as it's a hybrid so can run from its combustion engine. If the lawsuit is right then they somehow designed it so that it needs the battery to be working well too, which is usually not the case for hybrids.
I wouldn't say any of this is news to consumers though. At least in the UK the newspapers can't shut up about it.
It's largely a non-issue though. I don
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Re: Really??!! (Score:2)
But somebody did anticipate it! If you read to the very end, it turns out that Norwegian vehicles donâ(TM)t have this problem. It turns out that this is a story about cheap crap dressed up as anti-EV FUD
Re:Really??!! (Score:4, Interesting)
If that's really true, then I'm gobsmacked. But I'm fairly sure that it's just ill-informed hyperbole.
It really is ill-informed. Heck my EV has this written in the manual. It also explicitly recommends pre-conditioning the battery pack in the app for the car if it's cold outside, advising the user that it'll not just make the car more comfortable to get into, but also improve its range.
Battery pre-conditioning takes less time than thawing the windshield.
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It's hyperbole for headlines. My 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV has a complete coolant loop for cooling and heating the battery as needed. And it will warn you in very cold weather that the vehicle should be plugged in as it will be using power to keep the batteries warm and safe. It does lack the ability to pre warm the batteries before fast charging while driving that my newest EV has. So not perfect, but it was well known that you need to keep your batteries warm enough to be effective.
I suspect EVs built for
Re: Really??!! (Score:2)
Re:Really??!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Reciprocating engines have a compression stroke. Your gas turbine requires a minimum operational speed (and therefor fuel) for the compressor.
This makes the reciprocating engine farmore efficient in overall usage.
A gas turbine can match a reciprocating engine, but not really exceed. The exception is in combined-cycle turbines, where they can easily double the efficiency of a reciprocating engine, but it'd be a little tricky to fit a combined-cycle engine into a car.
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For example, we know that a turbine engine is the absolute best thing going for a vehicle, and has been proven to be a very workable design, especially with CVTs that can handle the fact that a turbine has a narrow power band. However, we still use piston engines and loads of emissions.
Legislation on NOx emissions killed the turbine engine for cars. Turbine engines moved a lot of air to work and it was impractical to put a catalytic converter on a car that could allow for that kind of air volume. Turbine engines are great for their fuel flexibility for one thing. Maybe there were other ways to mitigate the NOx emissions from turbines but without some driving need to use them the reciprocating piston engine dominated. At least that's my recollection on the history. Jay Leno and a few
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While your hypothesis looks nice at first glance, it has a glaring hole: Experiments with turbine powered cars had ended before the first NOx legislation. The Chrysler Turbine Car dates from 1963.
Chrysler was clear on what killed the turbine car:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
After the user program ended in 1966, Chrysler reclaimed the cars and destroyed all but nine; Chrysler kept two cars, six are displayed at museums in the United States, and one is in comedian Jay Leno's private collection. Chrysler's turbine engine program ended in 1979, mainly due to the failure of the engines to meet government emissions regulations, relatively poor fuel economy, and as a condition of receiving a government loan in 1979.
It's not like the turbine experimentation ended when the production on their first run of turbine cars ended in 1964. After they made the cars they experimented with them for years to see how they'd perform. Experiments on a new engine and vehicle design lasting for around 15 years might be a bit unusual but not unheard of. For a comparison consider the GM EV1. The GM EV1 started as a concept car in 1990, the first gener
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A turbine engine is terribly inefficient at lower engine speeds, and it requires a ton of power to keep them at high speed (meaning you don't want them there unless you're also producing locomotive power).
Where gas turbines excel is in power density and fuel flexibility- which isn't really a concern in cars, and certainly not enough of one that someone would be willing to deal with 4mpg on the way to work every day.
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A turbine isn't the best motor for a vehicle. They use about twice the fuel for the same amount of work output. Their main advantages are that they produce a lot of power with small size and low weight. This means that for an aircraft, they're more efficient above a certain power output because the fuel you save from reducing weight and drag more than offsets the increased fuel consumption.
Gas turbines were used in railway locos occasionally. Their main advantage there was that they could burn heavy fue
Re: Really??!! (Score:4, Informative)
"These features are standard in Norway's mature market, but remain absent from basic models exported to developing countries."
How many "developing countries" experience "freezing weather"?
I bought an EV here in a "developed" country, and it came with a battery heater by default, I had no choice (not that I wanted one, just saying).
The issue is poor people, in poor countries buying cheap EVs, but because they live so close to the equator, this isn't really an issue.
Just a great big dallop of hyperbole so someone on the EV periphery can see their name in print.
Please, tell me about the "developing countries" that own snow plows to clear their roads... /smh
Re: Really??!! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Funny... so, no other President has ever contributed to global warming... you're saying that the other 48 Presidents were carbon-neutral or even carbon-negative! Wow... that's amazing!!
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Not just knowingly, deliberately.
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Tesla largely solved this? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tesla largely solved this? (Score:5, Informative)
A 2020 Model 3 has 65% capacity at 15F outside temperature, according to the linked study. In 2021 they replaced the resistive heating with a heat pump, so it only goes down to 67% range.
Ideal temperature is 68 - 74F
The "worst" in their top 20 is the VW ID.4, with 63% capacity at 32F
I wouldn't be surprise if cheap vehicles without battery heating are completely unusable below freezing. You cannot charge a lithium battery without damage below 32F, so no regen braking.
If the battery drops to 0F, you can't even use it to heat itself as the electrolyte starts to freeze. That alone can permanently damage the battery.
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A 2020 Model 3 has 65% capacity at 15F outside temperature, according to the linked study. In 2021 they replaced the resistive heating with a heat pump, so it only goes down to 67% range.
This study is BS. I have a 2018 Model 3 with resistive heating, and I did many road trips in sub -20C conditions. Heating a cold-soaked battery from that temperature to 10C takes about 5kWh, or around 7% of the total capacity. You typically can do that on "shore power" while the car is plugged in but you can do that unplugged. After that the battery gets enough heating from its internal inefficiencies.
The major energy sink is actually heating the _cabin_. People tested driving a Tesla Model 3 at -20C with
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People tested driving a Tesla Model 3 at -20C without any heating, and the range is around 86% of the normal.
That's not even a valid test, since you can't drive with the heat off, the windows will fog up.
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The 12V battery can't power the heat pump compressor to heat the battery.
It's cool how your anecdotal account is different to this controlled study.
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It will jump out quickly ones you have driven a few KM because the battery will heat up.
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Though probably only if its charged slowly.
In NY aren't they testing EV school busses? Then they need to build giant garages to keep them all in (and forget the environmental toll of concrete etc). Then heat the giant garages. Or else the battery that took a lot of pollution to create will have to be replaced sooner. All to "save" the environment. Or did a bunch of people get rich off painting some
Do they not read? (Score:2)
This isnâ(TM)t new, itâ(TM)s in the sales material and on the dash warnings. The average daily commute is 42 miles (66 for me). I have never needed to drive gas because the temp dropped for my daily commute, ever.
Sure, you might need to take occasional road trips of over 200 miles and want gas, but then you make the rent vs buy decision based on your situation.
Math (Score:5, Informative)
An average of 20% loss is not “almost half”.
Re:Math (Score:4, Informative)
You need to read better.
It says "can lose half" and "average of 20%"
Maximum and average are different things.
Re:Math (Score:4, Insightful)
So clickbait then.
Re: Math (Score:2)
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20% average drop for the 20 most popular models, where they all have built in battery heaters.
The rest of the article is about the cheap vehicles being sold without battery heating.
Rate of reaction is temperature dependent. (Score:3)
Arrhenius, 1889. Also re-discovered by anyone trying to put sugar in iced tea.
Not news in Canada (Score:5, Insightful)
Most drivers are also aware of the similar, though less dramatic, effect of cold temperatures on lead-acid batteries used in conventional automobiles. Smart drivers of ordinary cars have a "block heater" installed in the crankcase of their car engine to keep the oil warm (therefore less viscous), to make it easier to start the car by putting less strain on the car's 12V battery. I have done this with every car I have ever owned.
My next car will probably be an EV and I will certainly consider how to keep the battery warm in the winter-time.
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The effect of our cold winter temperatures on EV batteries is well-known in Canada.
This effect is known to us in the Midwest USA. This was widely reported: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla... [newsweek.com]
The link I gave picked on Tesla but I recall this impacted other makes also. This got to be news because of the coincidence of a winter storm on top of weekend travels. The news was not that cold impacted EV range, the news was that so many people were caught off guard due to the severity.
Most drivers are also aware of the similar, though less dramatic, effect of cold temperatures on lead-acid batteries used in conventional automobiles.
No doubt there, that's why "cold cranking amps" ratings exist on lead-acid batteries.
Smart drivers of ordinary cars have a "block heater" installed in the crankcase of their car engine to keep the oil warm (therefore less viscous), to make it easier to start the car by putting less strain on the car's 12V battery. I have done this with every car I have ever owned.
My next car will probably be an EV and I will certainly consider how to keep the battery warm in the winter-time.
Presumably now that manufact
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Given the mass of a typical EV battery it might not be enough to have a 120 volt 15 amp outlet like that used for the typical block heater to get the battery warm enough for maximum range.
Let's get some chemistry to help!
On average, the rate of chemical reactions goes up by 2x for every 10C of temperature increase. If your battery is at -20C then it produces about 12 times less energy than at 15C. A typical car battery can produce about 300kW of power, so that still leaves you with 25kW (or 33 horse power). A typical battery is about 400kg for the cells themselves, and apparently the cells have specific heat capacity of 800 J/kg/C, so heating them at 25kW will require 448 seconds.
But hea
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Here we have 230V systems (480V 3-fase if you need more power) and the only overhead wires that exist are the high voltage lines. (150 000V and higher)
And those are too high for trees to fall on and generally don't freeze because all the power that goes trough them.
The only power failure I have seen in 15 years in my city was locally because someone hit the neighborhood feed cable with a digger. That was nice fireworks and the digge
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"diesel engines are known for being especially difficult to start in cold."
When I was in the Army in Korea in 1985/86 one of the duties on the duty roster was to start every vehicle in the motor pool every 4 hours and run it for half an hour to keep it warm. Nothing like getting up at 0200 on a Sunday morning to spend an hour in the motor pool.
Re: Not news in Canada (Score:3)
Presumably now that manufacturers have been embarrassed with national news of EVs needing to be towed away because they refused to charge in the cold there will be changes to better account for this.
The issue is cheap Chinese EVs, not the typical major auto maker EVs.
Presumably for most EVs all that is needed is a software update.
You can't "software update" a battery heater if the MFG didn't include one, and if the MFG did include one, why wouldn't they use it?
The issue is cheap Chinese EVs lacking a market-specific feature (battery warmer in cold climates)...
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See my other post here on Mitsubishi. Battery heaters (outside of their stupidity) are generally part of the kit when sold in Western markets, and they automatically keep the battery warm enough.
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Many EVs let you enable built in battery heating from the car or from an app. For SAIC (MG) ones there is an integration with Home Assistant too. Many also offer a timer so you can have it do it automatically in the morning, before you go to work.
Not how numbers work (Score:2)
"EVs can lose almost half their driving distance when temperatures drop"
"In January, Seattle-based Recurrent, a company that tests and analyzes EVs, found an average range loss of 20% in extreme cold"
No one would say 20% is almost half. That is not how numbers work.
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The figures are calculated in base 4.
Re:Not how numbers work (Score:5, Informative)
EVs can lose
Implying "up to".
found an average range loss
Implying an average.
No one would say 20% is almost half.
Agreed. Nobody would say that an average of 20% is almost half. Fortunately- nobody said that.
They said up to almost half, with an average of 20%.
Reading is important.
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Not just battery loss (Score:2)
Slashing battery capacity because of temperature is one thing. Then you lose another quarter of the charge to keep heating the cabin.
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There is a reason why a lot of EV's have seat and steering wheel heating
It is way more efficient to heat the person (especially if you are driving alone!) then to heat up the entire cabin to pleasant temperature.
When I drive alone I just put the cabin heating on like 16C to prevent the windows from fogging up.
And turn on the seat and steering wheel heating.
Re: Not just battery loss (Score:2)
That's you. If you're willing to suffer, that's your decision. Most people aren't like you and they won't subject themselves, their loved ones and children to freezing temperatures in the name of owning an EV.
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That's you. If you're willing to suffer, that's your decision. Most people aren't like you and they won't subject themselves, their loved ones and children to freezing temperatures in the name of owning an EV.
16C, heated seats and steering wheel is "suffering" now? Cue the "four Yorkshiremen" sketch.
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Next time buy a Ford than a Chevy I guess. (That's a joke, never buy American vehicles. That's another joke, always buy American.)
This I do like :-)
This would have been news a dozen years ago (Score:2)
IIRC there was a German auto mag that tested a 1/2 dozen EVs in winter including a Tesla and reported on range loss
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Is this news? (Score:3)
I live near the arctic circle and this is common knowledge.
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I live near the arctic circle and this is common knowledge.
Lucky you - I used to love their hamburgers [acburger.com]!
Nobody? (Score:2)
I think it is pretty clear, even from the summary, that Norway could see the problem before it happened.
Also, I think everybody on the planet except the marketing people knew about batteries losing effectiveness when cold.
Probably worth reminding people (Score:4, Insightful)
In cold weather, fuel efficiency in gasoline-powered cars goes down as well [cars.com]... by 15% on average.
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But in a gas gar there is likely to be a gas station near by. Even if you have to carry the gas yourself, at least it is doable.
I don't know where you are posting from, but they do seem to have electricity there.
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Remind your service garage to use proper fluid (Score:2)
Some service garages are as lazy with your freezer fluid for the radiator, and they put in water instead of radiator liquid.
The same thing is especially important for BEV's !
You need to send a friendly reminder to your average auto shop, because most aren't used to BEV's, and don't understand that the cooling system which also function as the battery heater will need a special fluid replacement that is similar to radiator liquid, that it needs to have a lower than freezing point to it so the liquid doesn't
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The same thing is especially important for BEV's !
The battery heater in BEVs does NOT use water-based coolants at all because of the risk in case it leaks. Instead, they use glycol. Tesla even has a sensor that will disable the HV battery if it detects a conductive liquid in the battery loop.
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>"The battery heater in BEVs does NOT use water-based coolants at all because of the risk in case it leaks. Instead, they use glycol."
That generalization is not correct. My Ariya uses regular antifreeze:
"The cooling system is filled at the factory with a pre-diluted mixture of 50% Genuine NISSAN Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant
(blue) and 50% water to provide year-round antifreeze and coolant protection. The antifreeze solution contains rust and
corrosion inhibitors. Additional cooling system additives are no
EVs *continue* to sell well in Norway (Score:5, Informative)
Norwegians love their EVs, but we can afford the good ones. As a Norwegian EV owner I want to add that at this point EVa arenâ(TM)t just âoereachingâ dominance here, but they keep selling well. This is a cold country, so if winter range was a fatal flaw in high quality EVs, weâ(TM)d likely be returning to petrol, no? We arenâ(TM)t.
The roadside charger infrastructure is good and the cars are high quality. They handle great on ice, anre super powerful on hills, are always warm when you get in and no engine block heaters are ever needed â" they start problem free at -30C. Iâ(TM)ve had many long trips at -20C (7C in the article is selling Norway short) in snowstorms and whatnot, and itâ(TM)s all been comfortable.
But Tesla (Y, 3 and S) is by far far the most sold brand, and those handle the cold really well. This might influence the feeling.
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The cheaper models are fine in cold weather, or at least the good ones. MG MGS5 EV is a good example. Battery thermal management, no issues in the cold, about 26-27k Euro for the top spec (~30k USD).
Bjorn Nyland tested it in Norway, no issues.
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The Tesla 3 is among the worst tested in the annual winter EV range test. BYDs, Polestars, and curiously a mini topped the tests. But then Tesla's have been on the market for 15 years without giving the user the option to stop vampire drain on their battery saddling the entire EV industry with a reputation related to one fucking stupid design decision from one company.
Even now in EV stories here on Slashdot you'll hear someone saying you can't simply leave an EV parked somewhere or you'll find your battery
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Actually to add to my post it's curious to see Tesla top the charts in TFS even though they failed miserably in the year EV range tests in Sweden. Maybe this year they finally addressed the issue?
Not just Norway (Score:5, Informative)
Norwegians don't have special EV's - they have cars from Tesla, Jaguar and other manufacturers who are well aware of the issue, and incorporate battery pack heating systems, and sophisticated charging controls. The I-Pace uses a heat exchanger for warming both the battery and the cabin - before a long journey in cold temperatures you connect the car to the charger and "Pre-condition" it using mains power. Yes, there's a significant but not drastic drop in range; it's still enough for a long trip. I've not tried charging mine in cold weather at a rapid charger, but I'm sure the charging controls will use some of the power to heat the battery, as otherwise it wouldn't be able to accept the charge.
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before a long journey in cold temperatures you connect the car to the charger and "Pre-condition" it using mains power.
Volvos, Polestars, BYDs and Kias simply enable preconditioning automatically if you pre-heat the cabin, no need to connect to the charger. The preconditioning consumes about 1% of battery if it's well below zero outside, while maintaining almost the normal driving range. The manuals explicitly recommend that pre-heating the cabin improves your range in cold weather and you should do it.
"...a crisis nobody anticipated" (Score:2)
This is what they call a "Global Crisis"? (Score:2)
Its quite clear that this civilisation does not possess the intelligence or clout needed to steer this ship away from climate collapse.
Unfortunately there is no planet B - only a naive schoolboy would think that sending rockets to, and colonising a desolate lifeless mars is possible without accellerating the demise of our home.
False, only owners of crap EVs discover this (Score:2)
The worlds crap EV owners have discovered this. For many of the rest of the EV owners there's nothing to discover. In fact my car explicitly enables battery pack preconditioning as part of the cabin pre-heat function and the manual has always said to use the cabin pre-heat in cold weather as it improves the vehicle's range.
The yearly cold range test in Sweden of EVs shows massive differences in how this problem is managed between manufacturers.
A simple solution (Score:2)
A simple solution: Heat the planet.
Re: No way (Score:5, Informative)
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In The Netherlands the average is just above freezing, but we surely have days of -15C towards -25C.
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TFS does address Norway and why it works there flawlessly:
"The ability to preheat batteries upon fast charging in winter is by far the most important improvement we have seen in the past five years," Christina Bu, secretary-general of the Norwegian EV Association
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