China's Future Rests on 200 Million Precarious Workers (economist.com) 100
China's economy increasingly relies on 200 million "flexible workers" who lack formal employment contracts, pensions and urban residency permits despite comprising 25% of the national workforce and 40% of urban workers. The demographic includes 40 million day-wage factory workers and 84 million platform economy workers performing deliveries and ride-share driving. Factory gig workers average 26 years old, are 80% male, and 75-80% single and childless. These workers face systemic exclusions from urban benefits including healthcare, schooling and property ownership due to lacking urban hukou residency permits.
China's Supreme Court ruled in August that workers can claim compensation from employers denying benefits, though enforcement mechanisms remain unclear. Economic data shows retail sales growth at yearly lows, continuing property price declines, and rising urban unemployment. Analysts project GDP growth potentially falling to 3% in the third quarter. Manufacturing hubs report increasing numbers of young workers sleeping in parks and under overpasses between temporary jobs.
China's Supreme Court ruled in August that workers can claim compensation from employers denying benefits, though enforcement mechanisms remain unclear. Economic data shows retail sales growth at yearly lows, continuing property price declines, and rising urban unemployment. Analysts project GDP growth potentially falling to 3% in the third quarter. Manufacturing hubs report increasing numbers of young workers sleeping in parks and under overpasses between temporary jobs.
Re: (Score:2)
Without money or employment, the need to obey the rules and obey the rich drops into the toilet. The choice will be a post-apocalypse movie, murdering more and more people for a sliver of disappearing resources. Or, living in a cave and growing crops for oneself.
The same spiral affects the wealthy: They need factories (and external kingdoms) to make luxury goods and thus will need educated slaves, or will need to spend money hiring people. It's important to remember that several million rich people ha
There isn't any land (Score:2, Insightful)
That was a major problem in Venezuela where the ultra wealthy claimed all the land and wouldn't let anyone use it but didn't use it themselves so they had food shortages. The thing that really pissed off America about Venezuela was when Chavez seized all the land and gave it to people to farm. Rich people are supposed to be able to monopolize resources and then refuse
Re: (Score:3)
We needed to stop it in America in 2024 by electing Kamala Harris but we didn't.
But her laugh.
And her 'occasional' word-salads.
It seemed to me that she was so afraid of saying the 'wrong thing', she became functionally incapable of saying anything; well, anything of substance anyway.
So, partially, a consequence of self-censorship, do you think?
Re: (Score:2)
It would be an ok point, but the trouble is just about everything you can say about Harris is about a thousand tribes worse with trump. He's the king of word salads.
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't hold Venezuela up as an example of good leftist governance. Not only are they anti democratic there and have serious human rights abuses but the whole reason land owners weren't growing crops on their land is that government price controls made it unprofitable to grow crops and that didn't change with land redistribution as they still get most of their food from other countries. Meanwhile they were largely self sufficient on food before all this craziness.
As a leftist I have to say long term pric
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
The men get the cushy jobs.
More likely they are all women and immigrants. None of which are inclined to moan.
It's the same the world over.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: 200 million angry, single disaffected young me (Score:2)
Re:200 million agents take offence (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
That flyspec island has roughly 24 million people. It will shortly be owned by the leeches in the CCCP. la Presidenta canceled a $400 million defense contract as he butters Xi's ass in the expectation of the Deal of the Century: the CCCP leeches get Taiwan, and la Presidenta gets a cut of every TSMC chip sold in the U.S.
Re: (Score:1)
As TFS points out, courts have ruled in their favour and you can expect that it won't be long before the government steps in to assist if the employers don't.
That's the secret to the Chinese government's success - they give a shit about the citizens and work to improve their lives, instead of trying to maintain the supply of cheap labour for corporations. As such Chinese citizens are mostly happy with how their lives keep improving, and feel that the government is on their side. I know it's hard to imagine.
Re: (Score:2)
They have access to electricity*.
* As long as they don't use more than ~8kWh a day, or between the hours of 1700-2100 when you should be eating and thanking the Party for your sustenance.
Re: (Score:3)
It cares about it's citizens. Except the ones who criticise Xi. Or the ones living somewhere where it's convent to pollute. Or the ones who have the wrong religion. Or the ones it's using for slave labour. Or the ones it's actually committing genocide against.
Sure, "most" might be happy with that but most Brits were pretty happy with going around the world, invading places and stealing their shit.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not saying it's acceptable or anything, but most countries are at least a bit like that. Look at how we treat travellers, or participate in the Israeli genocide.
What I'm saying is that it's not good just complaining about all the bad stuff China does, we can only win by proving ourselves and our ideology to be better. Also hoping that the Chinese people will wake up and overthrow their oppressors isn't going to work either. Not accusing you of either, just explaining the point I was making.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh fair enough.
Re: 200 million angry, single disaffected young me (Score:2)
Hereâ(TM)s the problem with that scenario: court rulings donâ(TM)t mean much in a state ruled by one party. China has plenty of progressive looking laws that donâ(TM)t get enforced if it is inconvenient to the party. There are emission standards for trucks and cars that should help with their pollution problems, but there are no enforcement mechanisms and officials have no interest in creating any if it would interfere with their economic targets or their private interests.
China is a country
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, they decided no more wood burning stoves around Bejing, and overnight they all went away.
Courts so have a lot of power in China, and rulings are generally not interfered with by the government unless there is a very specific reason to. An example I've been following is copyright, specifically the GPL. A court ruled that it was an enforceable contract, and more than one company had to scramble to come into compliance. Many seem to have taken the opportunity to leverage open source by publi
Re: 200 million angry, single disaffected young m (Score:2)
It makes no sense to claim Chinese courts have a lot of power, although it may seem that way â" itâ(TM)s supposed to seem that way. One of the foundational principles of Chinese jurisprudence is party supremacy. Every judge is supervised by a PLC â" party legal committee â" which oversees budgets, discipline and assignments in the judiciary. They consult with the judges in sensitive trials to ensure a politically acceptable outcome.
So it would be more accurate to characterize the courts
Re: (Score:2)
It depends what you mean. Compared to the USA today... I'd say it's at least comparable. The UK legal system seems to be having some issues at the moment too.
Re: (Score:2)
Good one. Most leaders, including Xi, don't have a flying fuck about their citizens and one should never assume they do. They care about personal glory and power. If helping citizens HAPPENS to help them reach their personal goals, that's great, but it doesn't always align.
Re: (Score:2)
I think for all his faults, Xi does genuinely hate poverty and desire to lift people out of if. Maybe it's for selfish reasons like cementing his place in Chinese history, I have no way of knowing, but he is succeeding at it. His methods can be extreme of course, amounting to genocide in some cases, but the fascists got the trains running on time...
Re: (Score:1)
> but the fascists got the trains running on time...
They actually lied about that, jailing reporters who criticized timing.
Re: (Score:2)
No, the secret to their success is that they've maintained ever increasing standards of living for their people so their people are largely content despite having no real rights. It's not wise, benevolent governance that have kept Chinese citizens content, it's economic growth and the rising standard of living that came with it. China knows this and is very worried about it's slowing economy as it's no longer pushing up standards of living meanwhile it has zero intention of giving its people any real rights
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Day 2 he spent asking people to try and find out what "groceries" were.
Turns out he invented the word.
Or at least that's what he was told... and believed...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No it doesn't. It depends on a free and open market for labor.
If there are no immigrants working for slave-like wages, food companies will have to do a couple of things. (1) Innovate with technology to rely on less labor. This is called a productivity gain. And (2) start paying people a decent/humane wage, and this will attract more workers to this line of work.
"Big Food Inc" need to pull their finger out of their collective buttholes and innovate,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is what is called an "utterly naive statement".
Re:America's food security depends on immigrant la (Score:5, Informative)
"America's food security depends on immigrant labor"
No it doesn't. It depends on a free and open market for labor.
If there are no immigrants working for slave-like wages, food companies will have to do a couple of things. (1) Innovate with technology to rely on less labor. This is called a productivity gain. And (2) start paying people a decent/humane wage, and this will attract more workers to this line of work.
Both of these ideas are problematic.
First, technological innovations have already come to some crops like most of the grains grown in the Midwest. The reason most fruit and vegetable harvesting is not automated is that the technology doesn't yet exist. Maybe in a few years or decades, we'll have machines or robots that can pick fruits and vegetables, but likely not anytime soon.
Second, it's not just a matter of money. The work is hard, literally back breaking, and often unpleasant. A wage that is just a living wage may not be sufficient to attract enough workers. Remember that many young people don't want the factory jobs that Trump is trying to bring back to the US, and farm work is even harder than factory work.
Furthermore, the price inflation from paying much higher wages would make that produce pretty much impossible to sell.
In our world, there are currently only two practical solutions. Either use undocumented workers or import produce. Trump is attacking both solutions at the same time.
Re: (Score:2)
The US, like many strongly capitalist countries, needs cheap food to maintain the supply of cheap labour for other industries. When food prices rise, people either need to be paid more or are too malnourished to work efficiently.
High calorie junk food offsets it a bit, but also leads to other health problems. Someone who is obese is not going to make an ideal Amazon warehouse worker.
This is all ignoring things like quality of life that tend not to matter in such societies.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's easy to pass up hard work when you are given more attractive options,
When your options become "work or go without", most people will eventually choose to work.
The problem is that we have gone so long without forcing people to work, that doing so at this point will require some socially unacceptable activities.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You are overlooking the legal way to bring in agricultural workers, the H-2A program.
Re: (Score:2)
Stop the CC propganda-jobs compete for workers too (Score:2)
Second, it's not just a matter of money. The work is hard, literally back breaking, and often unpleasant. A wage that is just a living wage may not be sufficient to attract enough workers. Remember that many young people don't want the factory jobs that Trump is trying to bring back to the US, and farm work is even harder than factory work.
People compete for jobs and jobs also compete for workers. Nearly anyone will work any job for the right price. That's called free-market capitalism or supply and demand. Please stop the corporatist, Chamber of Commerce propaganda. We've been hearing this for longer than I've been alive by business owners who bitch to old-school business-friendly Republicans and their local Chamber of Commerce about not being able to find workers willing to work sub-market wage jobs. All you have to do is pay more and
Re: (Score:2)
>"The reason most fruit and vegetable harvesting is not automated is that the technology doesn't yet exist.Maybe in a few years or decades, we'll have machines or robots that can pick fruits and vegetables, but likely not anytime soon."
The market will create demand for such technologies, if/when they become necessary. If there is no demand because it can be filled with cheap human labor, then that is what is used. If that supply dries up, labor prices will rise, and companies will be madly developing a
Re: (Score:1)
Sure, Americans will be lining up for those farm jobs....hint: most do not live near farmland. Are you that daft or do you just play like it here.
Re: (Score:2)
Define "near".
I live within the City of Pittsburgh. I bet I can find farmland within 10 miles of my house.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Parent replied to a counterfactual point in their parent's assertion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Try making accurate posts.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Try making accurate posts. Really try. You can do it!
Re: (Score:2)
Parent replied to a counterfactual point in their parent's assertion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm with registrations_suck- try making accurate posts.
You seem to be fond of the particular set of words, "pedantic at best".
You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't respond to anything about planning or working. I just asked what the previous poster considered "near".
I'm not working on a farm or anywhere else in the winter.
Re: (Score:2)
I live in one of the largest metro areas in the country, and I still live near farmland.
I'm wondering if you're American, or have ever been here?
Re: (Score:2)
Innovation #1 give that lard ass american white trash a shovel
Do enjoy watching your poorest starve whilst you are waiting for Food. Inc. to "innovate"
Re: (Score:2)
If there are no immigrants working for slave-like wages, food companies will have to do a couple of things. (1) Innovate with technology to rely on less labor. This is called a productivity gain.
All of the low-hanging fruit has been picked there, pun intended. Crops which are easy to machine cultivate are already produced with machine cultivation.
And (2) start paying people a decent/humane wage, and this will attract more workers to this line of work.
The first thing can't happen or they would have done it already, and the second thing is the opposite of their mission.
Re: (Score:1)
1860 Democrats: "But then who will pick our cotton?"
2025 Democrats: "But then who will pick our food crops?"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Who benefits from job lock-in? (Score:2)
Just to be pedantic (Score:5, Insightful)
These workers face systemic exclusions from urban benefits including healthcare, schooling and property ownership due to lacking urban hukou residency permits.
Just be clear 100% of the Chinese population are excluded from property ownership. All land belongs to the Chinese government. When you 'buy' an apartment it is only yours for a fixed number years, typically 30 to 40 years. Commercial properties are often less, around 20 years, but may be extended in some cases. To be fair urban hukou residency permits are a big issue and just one of several ways the Chinese government exert control over their population.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Ok, to be fair to your point it does sound like
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't do that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have you read your HOA CCR's?
COA, and yes.
My bet is no.
You bet wrong.
If you want the house, you take the conditions.
Correct. If you want the house, you sign the contract that gives them that power.
Don't do that.
Further in the US, anything built after around 2000 is in an HOA.
Incorrect.
About 75% of them, which is a lot- but not all.
I'm in a small neighborhood, 17 houses. You'd think HOA, wtf? Well, we got one.
That was your choice. You signed the fucking contract.
Re: (Score:2)
Thankfully, I am in the around 50% of people whose homes are not in a HOA. (And I think of the 50% of those that are in HOA are in condos/townhouses, so that is pretty normal/expected/necessary).
An HOA can be a good thing, a bad thing or just neutral. Just depends on the HOA and your needs/expectations. About 60% report positive experiences, 26% neutral, and 14% negative.
In almost all cases, it is voluntary (and hardly a valid comparison to China)- you know what you are getting into when you buy. Of cou
Re: (Score:2)
It's not bad.
Was even President for a while before I decided not to run anymore, because frankly- it's a terrible fucking job.
As you mentioned, some kind of COA is pretty necessary for a condominium. Upkeep of the commons is imperative.
That being said, nobody in a COA or an HOA ever wielded a drop of power that you didn't sign a contract granting them right to wield, as well as wield it if you can get voted into HOA office.
An organization governed by a democratic charter is hard
Re: (Score:1)
So you can only use it if you keep paying.
you can only use it for "approved things"
the government can take it away if it wants.
Re: (Score:2)
So you can only use it if you keep paying.
For the things I participated in democratically to vote for- yes.
you can only use it for "approved things"
For the things I participated in democratically to vote for- yes.
the government can take it away if it wants.
It can seize it to recover what it is owed- for sure. Which is a power I voted to give it, and in some municipalities- have even been stripped from it- and after the transaction is complete- I get the difference.
Are you truly too stupid to see how that's different?
Re: (Score:2)
So.....what's your point?
Re: (Score:2)
Do Americans own their land?
Yes.
Property tax is basically rent.
No, it's not. It's property tax. I can vote every penny of my property tax away.
Try as I might, I'm unlikely to sway my landlord's rent by voting it away.
The interesting thing here, is you seem to think that municipal, local, and State government in the US is like China- where the Government is a distinct entity from the people. It's not.
I voted for my property taxes.
Re: (Score:2)
This is just as pedantic.
No, it's accurate. Don't be stupid.
Try voting away your property tax.
Property taxes in my tax jurisdiction go up and down all the time as they're voted for and voted against.
It's not going to happen any more than voting your landlord's rent away.
Incorrect.
You have a better chance negotiating with your landlord rent than voting away property tax.
LOL- not unless you live in a place with very, very strong renter rights that more or less prevents them from evicting you. Otherwise, there's a literal line of people waiting to take your unit.
I own my property. It's pretty clear you don't.
Re: (Score:1)
Interesting. My first reaction to that was wow, that's wrong, I like my freehold. I've never looked into what freehold really means, for example if I find an oil field in the garden I have a feeling the crown might own the mineral rights.
I am British, our home is our castle, I believe in that for the individual. I would like to see every British citizen owning the land they live on, in my mind that makes them more invested in the country more willing to defend it.
However we have suffered from a plague of la
Re: (Score:2)
My sense from living in China is not that people trust their government or they have been indoctrinated. They simple live in a situation where many things are out of their control and make the most of what they can control. Basically they know they are being
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What is "996" ?
Re: (Score:2)
this [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
The toxic capitalism was supposed to come first. Feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism, Marx said so.
Wrong again.
Re: (Score:2)
12 hours per day, 6 days per week (9am to 9pm.)
Like china. It's illegally being attempted in the USA now in some places; big tech places... subtle and getting more clear with time. It's begun the push but will things be so corrupt that we backslide into it? Losing the weekends that took so much fighting to get a century ago?
We're already backsliding a century back in other ways.
Re: (Score:2)
I see.
Well, if someone wants to work such a schedule, I don't see an issue.
Personally, I won't work 12 hour or even 10 hour shifts, but a lot of people do like them for various reasons.
Previous owner of my house was a cop. He kept his dogs locked in what is now my office for his entire 10 or 12 hour shift. I know, because that carpet was completely disgusting when we bought the house. We didn't even go in there until we were ready to completely remodel that whole room.
I didn't even want that carpet going th
Re: (Score:2)
Why are you looking at a Communist dictatorship and calling it "toxic capitalism"?
Re: (Score:2)
These folks work for private companies that treat them this way.
In the Soviet Union, you would have literally worked for the Government, and a local Government council would have made the employment decisions.
China is an essentially capitalist market economy operating under a Communist dictatorship for the people.
It's honestly quite close to fascism, not that I expect you to understand the nuance.
Can you imagine needing government permission (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you are transgender then you pretty much need to avoid red states, as frothy evangelicals would be happy to hang you or lock you in a "correctional facility". [the-independent.com] And they are growing ever more medieval.
Re: (Score:2)
I dunno. China is a "market socialist" system -- which is a contradiction in terms. If China is socialist, then for practical purposes Norway and Sweden have to be even *more* socialist because they have a comprehensive public welfare system which China lacks. And those Nordic countries are rated quite high on global measures of political and personal freedom, and very low on corruption. In general they outperform the US on most of those measures, although the US is better on measures of business deregu