PC Sales Explode In Q3 As Windows 11 Deadlines Force Millions To Upgrade (nerds.xyz) 103
BrianFagioli shares a report from NERDS.xyz: IDC says global PC shipments jumped 9.4 percent in Q3 2025, reaching nearly 76 million units. Asia and Japan led the growth thanks to school projects and corporate refreshes tied to Windows 10's end of support. North America was the weak link, with tariffs and economic unease keeping buyers on the sidelines even as aging fleets strain under Windows 11 pressure.
Lenovo kept its top spot with 25.5 percent market share, followed by HP at 19.8 and Dell at 13.3. Apple and ASUS both posted double-digit growth. IDC's takeaway is clear: the PC market is not surging on flashy new features, it is being pulled forward by deadlines, old batteries, and the reality that five-year-old laptops do not cut it anymore.
Lenovo kept its top spot with 25.5 percent market share, followed by HP at 19.8 and Dell at 13.3. Apple and ASUS both posted double-digit growth. IDC's takeaway is clear: the PC market is not surging on flashy new features, it is being pulled forward by deadlines, old batteries, and the reality that five-year-old laptops do not cut it anymore.
Never been a better time to run linux (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Never been a better time to run linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Try Pop OS, its nice.
In the process of switching to using other system full-time that's running Mint... So far, have just been lazy. All my systems are (technically) too old to run Windows 11, but all run Linux (or BSD) just fine. Thank you MS for forcing me to switch!
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Shifting data around can take effort, if it's too much effort, get a new PC anyway and put Pop! OS on that. If you don't get on, put Windows on it then, less invested that way.
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Shifting data around can take effort
ffs.. is there where were at?
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Especially when using an os you're not familiar with
Re:Never been a better time to run linux (Score:5, Funny)
I'd contribute to a mass Linux ad campaign to agitate the hell out of Microsoft.
Re: Never been a better time to run linux (Score:1)
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$10k? um, I don't hate MS that much.
Re:Never been a better time to run linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Like this one?
https://endof10.org/ [endof10.org]
Re:Never been a better time to run linux (Score:4, Informative)
Try Pop OS, its nice.
Seconding Pop OS. It just works. Even the touchscreen just works. Which I didn't even know I had.
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And there it is. Nobody who doesn't have me to set it up (or similar) wants to run Linux.
If I set up a desktop for someone, I can configure it for them. Most Windows users can even run pacman.
And that's why the Year of The Linux Desktop never seems to happen.
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ChromeOS is a better option. On supported hardware. I've had zero tech support calls since switching people to that.
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Upgraded my decade old TPM non-compliant but still going strong stationary to Linux Mint LMDE, and it's been great. I was preferred to sacrifice PC gaming alltogether in the process. Turns out Steam runs Windows games in my library using Proton quite nicely (have only tested a few though). Really happy with ditching Win 10, rather than resorting to shenanigans like logging in with the M$ account, enabling OneDrive backup to get one additional year of free support, and probably having to deal with a lot more
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I was preferred to sacrifice PC gaming alltogether in the process. Turns out Steam runs Windows games in my library using Proton quite nicely
I've been skeptical about the "Windows games on Linux" thing, but I'm hearing nothing but good things about Proton. If it is indeed as good as advertised, it could truly a way for young men to finally get out of the Windows world.
I would have moved my parents to Google's Chrome OS Flex, but while it's super fast and does a few things extremely well, its lack of support for things like DVD playback is a killer in the "Upgrade for Grandma" department.
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Young men? likely not. They want the "newest" games. New titles are a lot more hit and miss with proton then established titles 5+ years old. Steam w/ proton does run a fairly large amount of games though.
Also, just because someone is a gamer doesn't mean they know shit about computers. I use to think that but I've just come across way to many people that know nothing that are gamers. Gaming isn't just for nerds anymore.
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It may never be a better time, but this is a huge reason why there will never be a "year of the Linux desktop". When Microsoft cuts support, most people will just knuckle under and buy new machines, even if they're happy with what they've been using. They bitch. They threaten. They shake their fist and tell Microsoft they'll go to something else. But most just give in and write the check.
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There is a reason for that called Microsoft Office. And Photoshop. And a million other niche applications that are Windows only (I work with scientific lab equipment) because not enough people wanted or cared about Linux support. Heck, companies selling hardware to labs will bundle a free Windows workstation rather than port their complex app to Linux.
And no, Libreoffice is not good enough if you are a person who uses Office specifically rather than any random Word processor. Writer is ok. Calc is incompati
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I'd vastly prefer the masses to stay on Windows, it's truly the finest OS for mass marketing crap to happy consumers and I fear for the mutations greed will force on Linux should their spending power ever transfer here.
Stop buying that garbage. Jesus people are dumb. (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Stop buying that garbage. Jesus people are dumb (Score:5, Funny)
It's not even a BDSM beating
Blue Death Screen Malfunction?
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Actually, it's black death now. They got rid of the "blue screen." It actually does look a lot better, even if it is a kernel panic.
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There are those that think we're masochists for running Linux. I disagree with them of course. But whatever.
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Ooomph. Thank you sir. May I have another sir. (Score:3)
Reminds me of canings/paddlings they used to (some US states stll do) give out in school for malfeasance.
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Amazingly it is true, in some Southern states anyway; America never ceases to amaze me.
https://publications.aap.org/p... [aap.org]
It is only used in 4% of US public schools however and seems to be a "paddling" that gets administered, so perhaps not the old Victorian birching but still it says a lot about the psyche of the US south that this is still going on.
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I was in gradeschool the 1980's. So, it may be different now, but I'm told by folks wit
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Anyone who hits a kid should be locked up and throw away the key.
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Re:Stop buying that garbage. Jesus people are dumb (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft has been publicly and loudly called-out and shamed for creating an ocean of needless e-waste, and forcing people to buy new PCs that they would not otherwise need (and in many cases cannot afford) or to continue using out-of-support software (with resulting risks of malware or lack of support from other software vendors).
Microsoft's response has been to laugh all the way to the bank, hand-in-hand with their hardware partner vendors.
I understand why technicians would think that people are "retarded" for choosing Windows (I run Linux and Apple myself), but the greater retardation is the continuing and widespread belief that we can modify the behavior of wealthy industry moguls by trying to make them feel guilt.
They are incapable of feeling guilt. They aren't normal people; they just pretend to be. Normal people with normal moral compasses don't ever attain positions of such wealth and power, as they are at far too much of a competitive disadvantage against these "natural leaders."
If we want to change their behavior, words will not work. We must apply force (in the form of legislation and/or boycott). These are not easily done, but they are the only things that will work.
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Re: Stop buying that garbage. Jesus people are dum (Score:2)
Agreed - and lets not forget that Apple owners pay a premium for their Macs with their shorter useful life.
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Macs with their shorter useful life.
I don't know about a shorter useful life. There are enough people who, especially with the advent of OCLP, have been effectively using Macs that are 15+ years old. These same Intel Macs will also run Linux once OCLP ages out.
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People like will complain that Microsoft only supports hardware for a minimum of 9 years and complain about e-waste, while boasting they use Apple who will only support their computers for 7 years....
The difference is, Apple gradually replaces the old with the new; especially since "Non-Updateable" does not mean totally unsupported, especially for Security Patches. Also, Apple has forever turned a blind eye toward "Mac Life Extension" Projects by DOSDude and the Open Core Legacy Patcher; which have allowed Mac Owners to quite easily Install macOS versions significantly past the "Officially Supported" Age.
That's very different from what MS is doing. . .
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Microsoft doesn't support hardware for any number of years, unless you mean their peripherals or tablets. They make Windows and they decide what the hardware requirements for new versions are going to be.
Windows 11 requires an 8th generation Intel processor and roughly the same for AMD. The 8th generation was released in October 2017, 8 (not 9) years ago. The 7th generation was released in August 2016, BUT, Intel kept manufacturing it until October 2020, 5 (not 9) years ago. And their various resellers kept
Re: Stop buying that garbage. Jesus people are dum (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a bit silly, there wont be tens of millions of 5-15 year-old PCs being tossed in the local dump by Nov. 1st.
The VAST majority of home users running machines incapable of running Win 11 will simply keep running Win 10 (they really don't care, and they'll be happy to be free of Patch Tuesday).
The real shift will be corporations that are not quite big enough to lease their computers and refresh them every three years.
The real consternation will be the small business users - Dr offices and small businesses that really just need something to run quickbooks on and surf the web... and their 5-10 year-old computer certainly may be "good enough", but honestly, it may just be time to upgrade...
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The real shift will be corporations that are not quite big enough to lease their computers and refresh them every three years.
There's no such thing. The scale of a corporation scales with their user requirement. If you have 70000 employees you need to replace 70000 laptops, but I'm sure you can dip into your billions of dollars revenue to cover that cost. If you have 7 employees you need to replace 7 laptops, you can put that on your credit card.
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Yeah nothing every has made a case better than calling people who are perfectly fine with their choice retards for making that choice.
To be clear, you're the problem with Linux and alternate software. If we ever want to convince people to move away from Windows we need to start by getting rid of toxic arseholes like you and actually make the alternate environments welcoming.
Stop supporting Microsoft by making alternate ecosystems look so shit. Let someone more capable represent and market them.
You can bend over if you want. Not me. (Score:1)
If you want to have a rainbow hug session and make sure your build a "welcoming" and "inclusive" environment you're going to end up with Windows or Linux and all their gay-boy choices wi
This was always the plan (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft is pleasing their OEM partners. TPM 2.0 requirements also giving them what they want. When it's in every PC, Microsoft will start locking down Windows starting with games, which will be seen as a benefit to large publishers who will say it's in the name of stopping cheats, but it will also stop modding and other ways consumers get after-market value out of their software.
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That's only if you run Microsoft's slop. Free your mind as Kuato would say.
Re:This was always the plan (Score:5, Informative)
They call it protection, but it’s really control. TPM 2.0 isn’t a safety measure, it’s a soft reboot of Palladium. Microsoft wanted that control decades ago, when they tried to make every program require approval, every file be signed, every action traceable. They failed then because people still believed computers should belong to those who use them. Now they’re trying again, quietly, under the banner of “security.” it is about ending free computing. It is about strangling the last breath of the general purpose machine and replacing it with an appliance that obeys orders from Redmond, not you. A locked future where Bitcoin miners, hackers, modders, and creators must beg permission to compute in their own homes.
Re:This was always the plan (Score:5, Informative)
Your EFI does (or does not) do that.
The TPM is used to securely store the keys that will (or will not) lock you out of your machine.
Currently, no motherboard vendor is shipping an EFI that doesn't have the PK completely in your control, meaning you can lock Microsoft out.
The fact that MS locks down their OS using SecureBoot (which game makers can then leverage to make sure you aren't fucking with their address space) doesn't make the fucking trust root the bad guy.
You're spreading FUD and misinformation.
Re:This was always the plan (Score:4, Insightful)
More like ignorance. The TPM can be used for good or ill. Windows otoh, will use it for ill.
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They'll find a way to use everything they can for ill. They're a fucking multi-trillion dollar corporation.
However, TPMs and SecureBoot guarantee the security of the boot process of your machine.
They are a net good if you give a fuck about being confident the code running in your kernel is actually what was shipped by the distributor of that kernel, and not something patched by some shitware you ran while you were drunk.
It offers boot-to-desktop security that is completely under your control
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We've seen hints at re
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But that's not the fault of the TPM.
Remote attestation existed long before TPMs did, and would still exist if they didn't. It would just be a little bit more defeatable.
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They're used for local attestation as well.
They can be used to detect that a system was booted, for example, with SecureBoot disabled, letting you know the machine was started up in an untrusted state. BitLocker uses this.
Again, I agree that remote attestation, as most people are likely to encounter it, is bad.
But the TPM simply supports attestation- and that has a local security purpose.
Also- you are free to wipe your TPMs attestat
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Everything can be used for good or ill. The point is the user is in control. There is nothing about TPM 2.0 that locks you into Microsoft. It just doesn't work like that.
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The fact that MS locks down their OS using SecureBoot (which game makers can then leverage to make sure you aren't fucking with their address space)
HahahahAHAHAHAhahaha lol, roflmao, omg hahahahahahahahah lol hahahHAHAHAHAH lol omfgwtfbbq
*cough* These tools are clearly keeping the cheaters and pira .... lol hahahahaha lol rofl lol hAHAHahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha
Ahem
These tools are clearly keeping che lol HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lol rofl omfg hahahaha fuck me
Sorry. It is hard to keep a straight face here while making the statement.
Ahem
These tools are clearly keeping cheaters and pirates from doing *cough* *giggle* doing the things they do. I am so glad fo
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I think you missed the point; however, it is not surprising that I am getting dumber by the year. *shrug*
The point was that all of these shenanigans do nothing to stop cheating or piracy. A TPM that is under the control of the user is a good thing, but, whatever.
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They could have been made to exclude us at any time.
They still can.
TPMs are an implementation of ISO/IEC 11889.
Manufacturers don't need to use a fucking open standard to implement lockdown if that's what they desire.
See: every fucking arm part made.
TPMs exist specifically to give you the control.
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Remote attestation is done by software running on your machine.
Cryptographically verified firmware is a good thing.
Using it to lock people out is a bad thing.
In the year of our lord 2025, in spite of decades of SecureBoot existing, still not a single implementation of it exists in the wild that does not have the PK in your control.
So yes, FUD.
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That lock-in used to be called the Microsoft/Intel devil alliance.
Anyway, Steam is gaining users and many of them will be Linux/proton users.
Tempest in a teapot. (Score:4, Insightful)
After this long commercial users will have planned for a hardware refresh. Their discards will be a feast far larger than the potential Linux user market (burp!) as always. I consider it a friendly Linux user hardware subsidy.
Home Windows users will amble on as usual. Clueful users (the tiny few who perform their own installs) long ago figured out how to run W11 on unsupported hardware and how to multiboot and/or run VM if they want W10 for something.
W10 VMs run fine on Linux hosts.
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"Their discards will be a feast far larger than the potential Linux user market (burp!) as always."
For a while, until more and more websites start enforcing passkeys which require tpm2.0. Also some authoritarian governments may not even allow isp's to permit pc's to connect to the Internet unless they do a TPM signed certificate exchange identifying the user.
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What are you talking about ... which websites? AFAIK passkeys can be generated and stored in software (i.e. bitwarden) without TPM ... on Linux for instance.
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Yeah, basically every PC and laptop made in the last 5 years can be upgraded to Windows 11. Many of the older ones still have spinning rust hard drives that are due to fail soon, so those end users are probably better off upgrading their systems anyway.
Sure, they could just replace that failing slow hard drive with an SSD and just switch to Linux instead... but if they were willing or able to actually do that, they've probably already done it.
Re:Tempest in a teapot. (Score:4, Informative)
My 10-year Intel i7-6700K w/ NVME, 32GB RAM is not rusty at all. It's actually running containers, VMs and IDEs - all at the same time! Capacitors are also doing fine, btw. It also running fine on Linux.
Wonder why M$ does not mention some people might be able to install a TPM 2.0 module on their MB? Windows/M$ are crap.
Re: Tempest in a teapot. (Score:2)
W10 VMs run fine on Linux hosts.
Win 10 also runs just fine on older hardware - exactly what problem does running Win 10 in a VM solve?
It still needs a license/COA.
It still won't get security updates.
And running Win 10 in a VM on a Linux box requires a level of sophistication and motivation many/most casual Windows 10 users don't have.
It's a shame Microsoft only gave users, what, 4 or 5 years notice before dropping support for Win 10...
In other news, every Intel-based Mac except a few very particular models, are no longer supported by the
Re: Tempest in a teapot. (Score:5, Interesting)
It still needs a license/COA.
It still won't get security updates.
Windows 10/11 runs just fine withOUT a license/COA. The only thing is you can't customize it. Big F'ing deal...
As for "no security updates", try 0patch.com (thats a digit zero, not the letter o". They charge $24/year for security patching Windows10, 8.1, 7 and believe it or not, XP... Check it out
www.0patch.com
Weird brain (Score:5, Interesting)
In my 90s head, PC will forever mean a desktop to me, and laptops will subsequently never mean a PC, despite being the same class of devices.
Just a weird brain. Some signals must have got mixed up in my childhood.
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In my 90s head, PC will forever mean a desktop to me, and laptops will subsequently never mean a PC, despite being the same class of devices.
Just a weird brain. Some signals must have got mixed up in my childhood.
I had the opposite experience. To me, a workstation was a linux/unix machine. When I finally got a laptop (big and slow Toshiba), it was a Windows machine. Of course, starting about 20 years ago, the workstations went away. I had servers and workstations in the lab, and those all ran linux, but the office desktop went away and was replaced by a Windows laptop with a docking station and a monitor.
Been buying mini PCs lately (Score:5, Interesting)
They are small, cheap, pretty fast, and run Linux well. And Windows 11 decently if you have to. Most of them come with Windows 11 Pro (licensed in the firmware). $200 USD for 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD. Perfect for those that are forced to upgrade their old desktop PCs.
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You can buy a refurb workstation off eBay with an old i5 [cpubenchmark.net] for the same and get better performance and higher-quality components.
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Sure bit if you do need to run Windows 11 the old i5 might not have the TPM 2, and probably is bigger and consumes more power.
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A mini PC isn't that far from a laptop with a broken screen. They both need DC input, rather than AC, so if it fits your needs, you can use an old laptop rather than a mini PC, it even comes with UPS in the form of onboard battery.
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No these computers plug straight into 110v (or 220v). Yes they are modern laptop components inside. If you're replacing an old desktop computer and already have a screen, these are way more economical than a laptop. Have you looked at cheap old laptops lately? You can buy them on Amazon for a song, but they are all 10 years old. These mini PCs are simply a better buy. I use them for mini servers. They may be 10 times more expensive than a Raspberry Pi, but with 10 times more utility in my opinion. For
Will there be a flood of cheap used PCs? (Score:1)
For those who use Linux or FreeBSD (or OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc). Will there be dirt cheap but still good used PCs to purchase?
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It wouldn't surprise me one damn bit if Microsoft is secretly funneling money to companies to ensure their perfectly good "old" PCs never make it to the used market but instead get shredded. Nadella is an asshole.
Re: Will there be a flood of cheap used PCs? (Score:4, Insightful)
MS doesn't care - the gravy train is corporate software assurance contracts, they aren't concerned about the fate of machines that don't run a supported version of windows - they just aren't.
Wells Fargo has 20,000 desktops, and they pay $50/year for each desktop to cover Windows and Office license subscriptions, and there store literally thousands of companies like that who pay millions in fees every year.
They aren't sitting around hoping your grandmother's 10 year-old tower PC doesn't turn into a Linux workstation...
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So you want a shorter lifespan of compute based hardware? This will generate even more e-waste. I have a 10 year old i7-6700K that could run Windows 11 just fine. It's the artificial hardware barriers by Microsoft that won't allow it. (My system is not running Windows by the way, it's screaming along with Linux). In my opinion the longer you can make old tech useful the better. It's better for me, it's better for you, it's better for the environment. It's not better for Microsoft's need to harvest your PC's
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Never noticed it in the past "forced" HW upgrades. There was the XP -> vista movement, then windows 7... it goes on.
The HW manufacturers that matter have had years to prepare, so their old stock that matters has been priced to sell, sort of.
The only thing that changed anything was covid, there were lots of new desktop/laptop sales. Ryzens jumped in performance around that time too, probably OEMs demanding chips faster meant AMD could invest more. Maybe just speculation.
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The thing is, you can get a new mini-PC in the $250-$400 range that's more capable than the typical decade-old dust bucket.
Yep. (Score:2)
That's right.
I put a pre-order down on a Framework laptop so I don't have to use Windows 11.
Maybe it's time to buy a cheap Linux laptop (Score:2)
Since I suppose a lot usable machines that will not work with Windows will flood second hand sites.
Windows 10 PC's will still keep working..... (Score:2)
I had that on my pc (Score:2)
22 Years of No Windows (Score:2)
It's been 22 years since I ran Windows as my home PC OS. I don't game on PCs and all the business I conduct on a computer absolutely has not required Windows.
Anyone "forced" in this way should seriously evaluate their relationship with computers as tools and entertainment.
I still don't fear the hacker boogeyman (Score:2)
Who believes this (Score:2)
Who believes this ?
and the reality that five-year-old laptops do not cut it anymore
I am on a 10 year old Laptop running Slackware. It is fast and very useful. I would say no one would see a speed difference between my system and any new Laptop. Maybe heavy GPU gamers might see some difference.
Me, I am looking forward to very cheap used laptops :)
"upgrading" to Windows 11 (Score:2)
Talk about throwing good money after bad.
Buy a Mac and don't look back (Score:2)
The Mac Mini is ideal for a user just coming up from Windows hell. It can use your existing monitor, mouse and keyboard and can be surprisingly cheap if you buy a year-old unit from the "official" refurb store. This will be your first experience of booting up without that ten-minute wait cursor as the PC rattles away doing Gates knows what.
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It will also be their first experience in buying/installing third party apps for everything from scrolling up on the mouse and maximising a window properly.
free extensions (Score:2)
i went to settings, updates etc and a notice appeared offering me security updates for another year. for free no less. i accepted, then did the same with 3 other PCs including a 5th gen trackpoint carbon. none of which go to 11. not sure what i'll do next october but in the meantime i'm covered. i love my thinkpad. hate to lose it. just wrote this on it.
- js.