Judge Dismisses Retail Group's Challenge To New York Surveillance Pricing Law (reuters.com) 23
A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by the National Retail Federation challenging a New York state law that requires retailers to tell customers when their personal data are used to set prices, known as surveillance pricing. From a report: U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff in Manhattan said the world's largest retail trade group did not plausibly allege that New York's Algorithmic Pricing Disclosure Act violated its members' free speech rights under the Constitution's First Amendment.
The first-in-the-nation law required retailers to disclose in capital letters when prices were set by algorithms using personal data, or face possible civil fines of $1,000 per violation. Governor Kathy Hochul said charging different prices depending on what people were willing to pay was "opaque," and prevented comparison-shopping.
The first-in-the-nation law required retailers to disclose in capital letters when prices were set by algorithms using personal data, or face possible civil fines of $1,000 per violation. Governor Kathy Hochul said charging different prices depending on what people were willing to pay was "opaque," and prevented comparison-shopping.
Why are scumbags shouting free speech so much? (Score:5, Insightful)
Everytime so shmuck wants to break the law, they scream Free Speech!
Free Speech means you can say what you want to say. It does NOT mean you can do any business you want (Charging money is not free speech).
It does not mean you can refuse to let the government speak also, or refuse to 'assist' the government in speaking.
Free speech does not mean you can stop other people from speaking.
Free speech does not mean you can force your religion on other people.
I think that any spokesperson, lawyer, or asshole that has a court tell them free speech does not mean X should be required to go to a class on what free speech actually means.
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I was basically going to come and say something like this. It's really obnoxious how first amendment rights are thoroughly misused/applied these days.
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or refuse to 'assist' the government in speaking.
Courts have often ruled that various forms of compelled speech violate 1A.
I think court got this one right though. There is a bright line here. The law requires disclosure of an activity the business is engaged it. It isnt requiring business to engage in anything speculative or discuss what any others are doing or may do, for example forcing you to disclose the existence of a competitor or that they might offer a lower price.
Meh (Score:2)
Countries which actually have laws "FOR the people BY the people" for consumer protection are far more honest
I am happy I live in one.
I know....but.... (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm fully aware that this is an unpopular opinion....but I don't have a problem with a retailer charging a customer what they're willing to pay, should that retailer actually be able to figure that out.
That said, my experience has been that retailers almost always charge me less than what I'm willing to pay, for whatever reason. Probably because they have no idea what I'm willing to pay.
All of that aside, I was under the impression that issues of "free speech" generally do NOT apply to "commercial" speech.
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The way they are wringing a nickel out of you is by offering you lower prices on certain items they've seen you buy, enticing you to spend money at their store instead of the competition. That's how it's being used. To entice you to shop for items you already buy.
Do you pay in cash for every transaction as well? I hope so, otherwise your bank, credit card company and phone pay apps, they are all going to sell your precious little personal shopping habits. Best go be a hermit if you think your privacy is som
I don't believe (Score:2)
I don't believe the retail industry's assertion that it will charge me less than they would otherwise. I don't think it's too much to ask that I am aware of how a retail business conducts itself before I decide to give them my money.
And no, I'm not so naive to think that my data isn't out there, for purchase. I don't need to reward companies for abusing it, though.
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Why do you want to know the inner workers of a retail business? Do you know the inner workers of your automaker? Do you know the inner workers of Microsoft, Google, etc? How about the inner workings of the people who make your clothing or the inner workings of farming? You don't know anything of that or an incredibly small portion. The list goes on and on.
The bottom line is, grocery stores and retail are businesses and business are there to create wealth for their shareholders. They also have the side affec
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You seem awfully hostile to the idea that I should want to do business with companies that don't act as greedy and exploitative as they possibly can. Do I know everything about the company that made my car, or Microsoft, or Google, or the companies that make my clothing, or brings my food to market? No. I do try, however to learn what I can about them, and it does influence my choices.
I don't subscribe to Miton Friedman's philosophy of "the social responsibility of business is to increase its profits," when
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Not angry but I think you'll find that if you tried to source most modern day items, you won't find truly ethical sources. Some are of course better then others, but pull back the veneer and I think you'll likely find that your average publicly traded company sucks.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better but one has to keep things realistic, which I imagine you do.
Messed up (Score:1)
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Haggling and charging people what they're willing to pay is not illegal. It's just that you have to disclose that's what you're doing.
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"Governor Kathy Hochul said charging different prices depending on what people were willing to pay was "opaque," and prevented comparison-shopping."
Price haggling and negotiating deals *is* "charging different prices depending on what people were willing to pay", so I was strictly addressing the Gov.'s comment.
what is it with double negative headlines? (Score:2)
i've even seen triple negative headlines, where i have to mentally cancel out two of the negatives just to be able to understand the sentence...
why can't we just say "Judge Upholds law requiring retailers to disclose Surveillance Pricing"
no really, why??
Unintended consequences (Score:2)
Ahh how cute. You think you have some kind of privacy when shopping in a retail store. If you get "personalized" digital coupons that make items you already buy more affordable, of course your bring tracked. How else did you think that worked?
This has a strong chance of causing retails to literally stop offering this, which will just increase prices overall.
This feels a lot like this new law the city of San Diego recently passed. All digital coupons offered by retailers that are not personalized prices must
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"This has a strong chance of causing retails to literally stop offering this, which will just increase prices overall."
Good. Then I'll continue to shop at stores which don't play these games. I don't use coupons, and a lot of stores that I shop at don't take them. (e.g. Aldi, Costco)
There's going to be a big knock-down drag out war on transparent pricing over the next few years. Personalized pricing is just one aspect of it. Getting through the minefield of hidden surcharges, fees, and taxes is another.
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Costco doesn't have customers, they have members. You pay for the pleasure of shopping there. Never shopped at Aldi so I'll take your word for it.
With that said, why do you hate coupons? They literally reduce the price you pay for an item. I guess you like paying higher prices. That's weird.
Plain Dealing (Score:2)
Is it too much to ask?
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Apparently so.
They want to charge the marks more. Those who let money easily slip from their fingers will be paying more. Those who watch every dollar (sorry, pennies are meaningless these days) will be given the best deals.
The way they'll know you are a mark is by looking up your spending habits and income level. If you are a rich tightwad, you'll get a better deal. If you are a poor spendthrift, you won't.
There are a lot of marks out there.