New MacBook Pro Does Not Include a Charger in the Box in Europe (macrumors.com) 70
Apple is releasing its new 14-inch MacBook Pro with the M5 chip in European markets without a charger. Customers in the U.S., Ireland, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Norway, and other European countries must supply their own power adapter. Buyers in the U.S. and other regions will receive Apple's 70-watt USB-C adapter. Apple attributed the decision to environmental goals as the European Union implements regulations on electronic waste. A USB-C to MagSafe 3 cable remains included. The adapter costs 59 pounds in the United Kingdom.
Good in theory (Score:2)
Re: Good in theory (Score:2)
Good in theory, and in practice
For people like me that take good care of chargers, i can use one of my multittude of previous ones.
For people who destroy their chargers like there is no tomorrow, they can buy a replacemment charger fit to their needs.
You want ultra-low-price becuase you keep forgeting them, or the electricity spikes in your area keep burning them. Check
Yoiu want ultra low price and use the price difference for a good portable surge suppresor. Check
Want a high quality charger that can handle
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Want a longer cable? A shorter one? Black? Gray ? Braided? All check.
Apple still includes the charging cable, which I would expect they would do as it there is a MagSafe port for charging. The MacBook can still charge from a standard USB-C cable if desired but the entire point of MagSafe is to not have your laptop jerked off the table because something was dropped, got tangled in the cable, and lead to $200+ in repair costs. I didn't like it that Apple got rid of MagSafe, and apparently so did many others, so it's back now. Without that cable people might be left unable t
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An addendum to my other comment...
Want a high quality charger that can handle two (or more) devices and jhas a mixture of A and C ports? Check
Apple offers a high quality charger with two USB-C ports as an option with some (maybe all?) of their laptops. If people need USB-A then use an adapter. How many devices use USB-A for charging any more? How many people, especially those with a MacBook, won't have a couple spare USB-C/USB-A adapters on hand?
I had a collection of USB-A chargers because so many devices came with them and I was able to pare that collection down by gifting a two or three to my mom since I saw
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An addendum to my other comment.......
But then this wasn't Apple's decision, right? This was imposed on them by EU rules. I don't know if people will complain on this but it could cause more support calls to Apple as people might expect a charger and not find one, complain of dead batteries because they were using their cell phone charger than a properly sized charger, and perhaps more I'm missing. I'm seeing this as government interference that could upset a lot of people. Or not, because all the "hardy" Europeans immigrated to the USA over the last few centuries. I kid, but I'm also a bit frustrated at how much Europeans have allowed their governments to pull over on them.
This is exactly what the EU demanded, and Apple complied. The EU piles on regulation after regulation, claiming this is what their citizens demand.
Europe is kind of getting
This is what they get: https://observer.com/2024/04/h... [observer.com] https://www.ft.com/content/80a... [ft.com]
I guess they know what they are doing, making more and more regulations about ridiculous things like charging ports, while falling further behind.
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Re: Good in theory (Score:5, Informative)
USB-C negotiates voltage and current, and current (and thus watts) are supplied on demand. So an oversize charger will always work fine on an undersize accessory. (there's NO risk of "blowing it up" if you try to charge a 60w macbook with a 140w charger)
There are also cases where a larger charger works better. We have some high end windows laptops here running CAD and they are entirely capable of DRAINING the battery WHILE PLUGGED IN because they shipped with lightweight chargers that supply fewer watts than the laptop can use when run hard. We ordered in some larger chargers (and yes, they're beastly bricks) that can keep up with and even charge the battery while CAD is running hard. So, bigger IS better.
I picked up a 140w Anker awhile ago, it's got three USB-C ports with quickcharge, and two USB-3 fast charge ports, with a nice built-in display. (it even came with a 140w USB-C cord) That's all I need to take with me, no matter which accessories I pack. It's so much better than ANY of the generic USB-C bricks they're including with laptops nowadays. I honestly don't WANT to pay more for an additional bundled brick I'm not going to take out of the box.
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I actually bought it quite recently, so I could take three bricks out of my laptop bag and replace them with just the one. Less space, less weight, and I love that built-in display. (it won't charge my watch unfortunately)
I've got a few spare older bricks from previous laptop purchases, so I can't say I'd need to buy a brick if my next laptop didn't come with one, but that shows my experience that bricks usually outlive their product. I also believe that most people have started accumulating unused brick
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USB-C is a good standard. So good that there is no point in a government telling people to use it. That makes things expensive and causes trouble later on.
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1) The price of the laptop went down with the price of the charger
2) You have an option to buy the charger together with the laptop
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Not for 70W. I'd hazard a guess only a small number of your chargers are 70W, and the ones you have came with a laptop.
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You have a 70-watt USB-C charger lying around? I have a 65 or two, for the laptop I'm typing on, but no 70s.
How many people have a 140 watt charger lying around? The 16-inch models include a 140 watt charger, and the higher end 14-inch models include a 96 watt charger.
I recall the largest USB-C charger I have is rated something like 85 watts. That might be enough for the high end 14-inch laptops even though they come with one that's more powerful but I'd expect disappointing performance if using that with a 16-inch laptop.
Apple laptops won't charge from two chargers at the same time so it's not like two 65 watt
Apple of course plays the "proprietary" game (Score:1)
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I didn't see anything in the linked video about AVS. Did I miss it somehow? Can you specify the time AVS was discussed?
There's nothing Apple specific about AVS, it is part of USB-PD version 3.1. AVS is something of an update to PPS, a means to allow for the higher voltages allowed by v3.1 and perhaps more I'm not seeing. That wasn't in the video, I had to seek that out elsewhere.
I'm not seeing anything from my searches on the web to indicate that Apple uses AVS anywhere. So, what are you talking about
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Apple being Apple thought hard how to circumvent EU regulation to continue scamming their believers
Apple is doing as the EU demands. You might think that everything has to comply with USB C, but you'd be crying like a baby that lost its Binky if Androids all had to change to Apple connections.
The weird thing is Apple users don't care. We still get a charger, you can buy one off eBay. Enjoy getting whatt you presumably demanded, and your EU overlords did what you asked. Another pointless regulation.
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Lol. AVS is part of the USB specification. It's not proprietary. In USB PD 3.2 it's required if you want to deliver more than 27 W.
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That would be a welcome change if it's true. Before I stopped buying and using Macs (bought my last Mac in 2010), MagSafe power adapters gave me more trouble than most other power supplies. The DC cable would end up breaking internally and either get an open circuit or a short. They'd sometimes get leaky capacitors (as in leaking current, not leaking electrolyte) before the DC cable failed, allowing enough mains voltage to couple to t
About time! (Score:5, Insightful)
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In reality they will of course not discount it.
Box should include either the charger or a refund coupon equal to the retail price of one.
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EU Regulation (Score:2)
https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/electrical-and-electronic-engineering-industries-eei/radio-equipment-directive-red/one-common-charging-solution-all_en [europa.eu]
Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device
Consumers are able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. This limits the number of chargers on the market or left unused. Reducing production and disposal of new chargers is estimated to reduce the amount of electronic waste by 980 tonnes yearly.
. Details can be found in this document: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/lega... [europa.eu]
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Is there a surplus of 70 watt chargers in the EU? No? Well, enjoy paying even more for your (overpriced) laptop EU Mac fans!
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The EU has a lot of bad ideas. A whole 980 metric tons. Whoopdeef-k. And all it cost was... born by the consumers so the EU commission didn't care.
Is there a surplus of 70 watt chargers in the EU? No? Well, enjoy paying even more for your (overpriced) laptop EU Mac fans!
Be honest....I bet you like many people, myself included, have several USB chargers sat in a drawer unused which will just end up in landfill which is why these regulations were brought in. I bought a 6 port USB charger years ago so every charger that came with anything I bought was just thrown in a drawer, unused. I now just have a GaN charger, they're dirt cheap like £60 for a 200W 6 port one from Anker.
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I have a block that plugs into an electric socket to provide a few more electric outlets, 3 USB-A and one USB-C. It charges my phone, but my laptop calls me an a-hole if I try to plug it into the C port. I have a USB3 hub that I use for charging things at my desktop and powering a Roku. It's messy though.
I find each ad
Yay, greenwashing with profit (Score:3)
That easily increases the profit margin by dozens of Euros a piece.
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Next they won't include a computer but you'll get the cool Apple box you can show off to your friends.
At least your iphone is put together (Score:2)
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That easily increases the profit margin by dozens of Euros a piece.
Again, it's not greenwashing when you're actually doing something that has an effect, like not shipping e-waste to people who don't specifically go and source it.
It's 2025, there's nothing special about laptop chargers to the point that I have 3 of them in a drawer somewhere unused. Multi-port desktop chargers are far superior and becoming ubiquitous. Even the wife simply plugs her laptop into whatever charger is laying around, whether that was for her phone or the USB sockets we have in the wall.
Now I hope
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That easily increases the profit margin by dozens of Euros a piece.
Considering it's now just a phone in a laptop form, they've got to be making money hand over fist. I think I'll stick to my ordinary laptop/PC that can play video games. There is at least some competition in that market keeping prices sane (well, somewhat sane, not paying 3000 Euro for a oversized phone).
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Think more than one step ahead.
Next: Apple increases its profit a bit.
After that: Apple competes with everyone else and can use the margin to compete better. Their price will be less than it would have been with a charger.
The competition over the new price just needs one iteration to start.
Magsafe (Score:2)
Great, I'll use my old MacBook charger.
Oh no! it's a MagSafe 1.
I guess I'll get the slightly newer MacBook charger.
Oh no! It's a MagSafe 2.
I guess I'll use the MagSafe 3 that came with the new laptop.
Oh no! It's not there.
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It's not Magsafe, it's USB C. Seems to be reasonably standard too, so you probably already have a compatible charger. The one for your iPhone will work, although probably slowly.
It's a good move. People end up with too many chargers, and because the EU requires them all to be USB C the chances of them actually needing to buy one are slim. Loads of e-waste. It also opens the market up to more competition if they do need to buy one.
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If USB-C is required by the EU then there's not much chance in competing with USB-C. Or am I missing something?
Perhaps instead of requiring Apple to exclude chargers by EU law they could require Apple to have a "no charger included" option in their "build to order" system. As it is now I'm seeing from "build to order" in the USA, which allows for chargers to be included, Apple offers a 40 watt (or whatever) charger by default, a two port 45 watt (or whatever) charger to allow for plugging in an iPhone too
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Anyone can make a USB C charger. The protocol is a standard, not proprietary. In the past Apple has bricked third party accessories that reverse engineered its protocols.
By not including one in the box, they aren't preempting the sale of one by someone else.
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Anyone can make a USB C charger. The protocol is a standard, not proprietary. In the past Apple has bricked third party accessories that reverse engineered its protocols.
You apparently missed the part where I proposed a simple barrel connector as an alternative to USB-C as a standard charging connector for portable electronics. Sure, anyone can make a USB-C charger, but they'd have to pay the USB people to be in compliance. If there's a specification for an existing barrel connector standard, and using a specified standard voltage, then there's no means by which Apple could "brick" anything while also being in compliance.
My problem with specifying USB-C is that this is go
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Barrel connectors have a number of issues.
They are fixed voltage, and if you also have a fixed size it's easy to plug the wrong one in and fry your electronics.
If you add communication to negotiate a voltage, you need to invent a new standard when USB C Power Delivery already exists.
The common size ones are rather large for things like phones.
They are only of use for charging, not data or accessories, so you need a separate charging port on the device.
The EU has experts advising it, and they saw that USB C
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Barrel connectors have a number of issues.
They are fixed voltage, and if you also have a fixed size it's easy to plug the wrong one in and fry your electronics.
There's nothing that requires a barrel connector to maintain a specified voltage. That gets to the next point....
If you add communication to negotiate a voltage, you need to invent a new standard when USB C Power Delivery already exists.
No, you don't have to specify a new standard, USB-PD has already specified how to communicate a handshake for voltage and current on Vbus/GND. This fell out of favor for complicated reasons but the specification is there and could be adopted for a negotiation on voltage and current on a barrel connector that has only a pair of V+/GND connections.
The common size ones are rather large for things like phones.
If you believe that then i suspect you've not bou
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No, you don't have to specify a new standard, USB-PD has already specified how to communicate a handshake for voltage and current on Vbus/GND. This fell out of favor for complicated reasons but the specification is there and could be adopted for a negotiation on voltage and current on a barrel connector that has only a pair of V+/GND connections.
Can you explain what you are referring to here? The current standard is USB PD, it's widely adopted and hasn't fallen out of favour.
Thing about USB PD is that it uses a side channel to negotiate between device and charger, and barrel jacks don't have side channel pins. I suppose you could specify ones with multiple rings... But why bother, when USB C already exists and the industry has mostly adopted it?
Is USB-C the end of developing power and data for portable electronics for all time? I doubt it. I suggested barrel connectors as an alternative. Then could be MagSafe 3, or some variation on that theme of a magnetic connection for power transfer to portable electronics. Then could be something we haven't seen yet.
The EU's rule have them review the required connected regularly, so if something significantly better com
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I think GP was saying that you can use the same protocol as USB-PD over a simple barrel connector, but because barrel connectors have fallen out of favor nobody does that.
It's awkwardly worded, but from context - both the fact that the GP is promoting barrel connectors, and the fact "how to communicate a handshake for voltage and current on Vbus/GND" applies to virtually any two wire set up - that seems to be my interpretation. It's not that USB-PD isn't popular, it's that the idea of improving barrel conne
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Well, USB PD uses two wires for the negotiation, and a barrel connector has one... That is also used for the high voltage. It would be more expensive and likely to fail than USB C.
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Can you explain what you are referring to here? The current standard is USB PD, it's widely adopted and hasn't fallen out of favour.
If someone wer to search the web deep enoug to find it there's a part of USB-PD version 1.0 that allows for power negotiation up to 20 volts and 5 amps using only the Vbus and GND pins. It's a kind of RF signal on those two wires and allows for communications on a connection primarily intended for power. This has been shown to work but, again, has fallen out of favor for a variety of reasons.
Thing about USB PD is that it uses a side channel to negotiate between device and charger, and barrel jacks don't have side channel pins. I suppose you could specify ones with multiple rings... But why bother, when USB C already exists and the industry has mostly adopted it?
It would be trivial to have a side channel for negotiating power on a standard connector like a 1/8 inch TRS phone
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Why do you need a "no charger included" option if you can have no charger by default and buy the charger (if you need it) at the same time? You do the same as before and just swap the labels.
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Great, I'll use my old MacBook charger.
Oh no! it's a MagSafe 1.
Those that bought a laptop with MagSafe 2 could use their MagSafe 1 chargers with an adapter. That was also something like 15 years ago since the change to MagSafe 2. Who is still using their Magsafe 1 charger besides me?
I guess I'll get the slightly newer MacBook charger.
Oh no! It's a MagSafe 2.
MagSafe 2 died about 10 years ago, and maxed out at 85 watts when newer Apple laptops started to use USB-C and come with 96 watt power supplies. The first Apple USB-C chargers were sized for something like 60 and 85 watts (same or similar to MagSafe 2 chargers) but they were replaced wit
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Those that bought a laptop with MagSafe 2 could use their MagSafe 1 chargers with an adapter.
I had several of those! They worked really well, and were only ten bucks I think.
Main reason I liked them was I had a few right-angle MagSafe 1 chargers (from old Airs I think), which didn't appear to be an option with MagSafe 2.
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Regarding Lenovo, they have three kinds of chargers: the rectangular "slim tip" (yellow at the tip), the "round tip" barrel connector (also yellow at the tip), and USB-C. A notebook will have either a "slim tip" or "round tip" connector and usually one USB-C port that allows charging. You can't interchange chargers between "slip tip" and "round tip" computers.
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The "slim tip" and "round tip" were both built for a nominal 19 volt output, with "nominal" meaning somewhere between 18 and 20 volts. There may not be complete overlap between this and what USB-C and USB-PD specifies with their nominal 20 volt output but it's close enough that it would be rare for an adapter made between any two of those three to cause problems.
As best I can tell the "round tip" Lenovo connector was limited to something like 3.5 amps as I've not seen a round tip Lenovo power supply rated
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I've been through the Lenovo series of connectors. I worked at Intel for 21 years and they were a Thinkpad/Lenovo house. I got my mother a Lenovo on the grounds they're a bit less prone to fall apart than other brands. Macs weren't in the running because she uses windows specific software. I have my yellow tipped barrel connector adaptor secreted in box for when the occasion to use it arises.
The (quite new) MacBook Air I'm typing on has 2 USB-C and one Magsafe 3. The real issue is I have only a single Magsa
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I've been through the Lenovo series of connectors. I worked at Intel for 21 years and they were a Thinkpad/Lenovo house.
Great, then perhaps you could verify that I'm not hallucinating that when Lenovo switched to their "slim tip" power connector they were rated for 19 volts like the older "round tip" connector. Then would be the matter on if there was a difference in amperage ratings. I do not recall a "round tip" power supply rated for more than 65 watts, but higher power "slim tip" power supplies were in an abundance. Adapters existed between the two so something was keeping people from trying to use a 65 watt power sup
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>Either way that tells me I'm not hallucinating that the two both used the same voltage.
Yes. 19V. Like every other barrel connector powered laptop.
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Yes. 19V. Like every other barrel connector powered laptop.
I've seen laptops with barrel connectors that used 12 volts, 15 volts, and other voltages. Maybe that's a matter of the laptops using older technology than lithium but not all laptops used 19 volts.
Good. I have too many chargers (Score:2)
Just looking through my junk boxes I have about 40 charger blocks of various sizes and power outputs... including about 5 newer ones with USB-C higher power output.
I don't think I have ever had a power block fail.
Happy that they aren't including more potential electronic waste with every purchase.
Of course, knowing Apple, they won't reduce the price.
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Seems like the EU is going through a self-defeating degree of effort to slightly reduce how much trash they produce.
Each European might now produce .002 kilos (2 entire grams!) of trash less each year. Wow. Totally worth the time, trouble, and cost. Definitely saved the planet there.
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That's 900 tonnes of waste a year by your own math, which seems to be quite low even for something pulled out of your rectum.
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The source of that 980 tonnes is the summary above, which claims the rule saves that amount.
And if 980 tonnes of trash per year sounds like a lot, it isn't. The EU produces approximately 2,278,571 times more than that every year. 2,223,000,000 tonnes. According to bing anyhow, but even if that were off by three orders of magnitude, 980 tonnes would still be trivial.
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It's been a long day.
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It'll work fine with a 65 watt charger. You might possibly be able to note a charge time difference if you completely drain the battery and use a stopwatch, but I doubt it. Apparently 20 W phone chargers also work fine, although more slowly.
Lame, yet. (Score:2)
That said 90% of the time I charge mine while it is docked into my the work station at my desk. I bring the charger with me whenever I bring the laptop elsewhere, but I rarely have to plug it in away from the desk because the battery really is all day and my office is in a room in my home. I did buy the cable to pug it into the dock though. At a minimum it should be included. But really Apple, and I say thi
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I think it is BS for a device you are spending thousands of dollars on. It should include a charger.
I agree, and that policy of including a charger should include a $600 smartphone. If they can sell a 20 watt charger in a separate box for $19.00 then that's likely a near zero cost to them for including it in the box when done on scale.
That said 90% of the time I charge mine while it is docked into my the work station at my desk. I bring the charger with me whenever I bring the laptop elsewhere, but I rarely have to plug it in away from the desk because the battery really is all day and my office is in a room in my home. I did buy the cable to pug it into the dock though. At a minimum it should be included. But really Apple, and I say this as a stockholder (albeit one small enough Iâ(TM)m sure you donâ(TM)t care), just include the fking charger. Because when you need it, you bloody need it.
I've been where you've been before. When you need that charger then you need it badly. Apple was forced into not including chargers by EU regulations, they didn't want to exclude chargers from the box. The same applied to the switch from Lightning to USB-C on many of the
Why not... (Score:2)
Include an add-on charging brick by default, but give people the option at purchase time to save $30 and select "do not include a charging brick"?
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Include an add-on charging brick by default, but give people the option at purchase time to save $30 and select "do not include a charging brick"?
You save 65€ if you choose no charger when ordering.
2028 - No charger, no cable (Score:2)
By 28 December 2026, the Commission shall submit to the European Parliament and the Council a report on the impact of the possibility to acquire radio equipment without any charging device and without cables, particularly with regard to consumer convenience, the reduction of environmental waste, behavioural changes and the development of market practices. That report shall be accompanied, if appropriate, by a legislative proposal to amend this Directive to introduce mandatory unbundling of the sale of charging devices and cables from the sale of radio equipment.’
Throw away the macbook when battery has drained? (Score:1)
Apple probably wants we should throw away the macbook once the battery has drained, and get a new macbook
Stop whining (Score:1)