A Classified Network of SpaceX Satellites Is Emitting a Mysterious Signal

A network of classified Starshield satellites built by SpaceX for the U.S. government is transmitting signals on radio frequencies reserved for Earth-to-space commands. According to NPR, it may violate international standards. From the report: Satellites associated with the Starshield satellite network appear to be transmitting to the Earth's surface on frequencies normally used for doing the exact opposite: sending commands from Earth to satellites in space. The use of those frequencies to "downlink" data runs counter to standards set by the International Telecommunication Union, a United Nations agency that seeks to coordinate the use of radio spectrum globally.

Starshield's unusual transmissions have the potential to interfere with other scientific and commercial satellites, warns Scott Tilley, an amateur satellite tracker in Canada who first spotted the signals. "Nearby satellites could receive radio-frequency interference and could perhaps not respond properly to commands -- or ignore commands -- from Earth," he told NPR.

Outside experts agree there's the potential for radio interference. "I think it is definitely happening," said Kevin Gifford, a computer science professor at the University of Colorado, Boulder who specializes in radio interference from spacecraft. But he said the issue of whether the interference is truly disruptive remains unresolved. [...] Tilley says he's detected signals from 170 of the Starshield satellites so far. All appear in the 2025-2110 MHz range, though the precise frequencies of the signals move around.

Re:

[PDXNerd]

Hi Elon. Yes it's a semantic difference in the specific thing you pulled out to focus on, why would you even care about that??. The problem is not the semantics here, its that the US Government via SpaceX Contracted Deliverables are violating international standards (aka Agreements, pedantically, things the US Government has Agreed to follow in order to ensure other governments also follow them so we don't cause each other problems). It could in this case disrupt or make it so other countries have difficult

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Potential vs ability to disrupt?

This. These are weapons.

Re:What's the Difference?

[sound+vision]

I don't doubt they are weapons, but it seems odd they would be doing what sounds like continuous test fires across a wide geographical area.

Either somebody messed up, causing their secret weapon to be revealed... or they are deliberately sending these signals off to make a statement, daring that the laws be enforced. Similar to Russia's GPS jamming campaign.

Malice or incompetence?

Re:What's the Difference?

[sound+vision]

Addendum: Could very well be both malice and incompetence, that seems to be their modus operandi.

Re:

[chemputer]

It's a hard call. I can see it being internally deliberate as a deterrent, or possibly someone got inside and is making them light themselves up for tracking/targeting purposes. If it's internal, that's quite a bold, arrogant AF move. Who shows their opponents where to aim?

Re:

[sabbede]

Semantics is meaning, so a semantic difference = "means something different". It always matters.

May be the only legal source

[buck-yar]

Didn't he buy that spectrum? https://www.latimes.com/busine... [latimes.com]

And if not, could it be interference? I'm no wave scientists (I don't even know what field it goes under, physics?) but with all the transmitting he's doing, how inevitably isn't he interfering with some half, quarter etc waves?

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

If SpaceX (not Mr Musk since he doesn't own SpaceX by himself) bought the spectrum then the US Government engaged in fraudulent behavior. They cannot sell spectrum for purposes they have explicitly agreed not to use that spectrum for.

Re:

[buck-yar]

Lawmakers and officials tasked with carrying out those laws disagree. Govt literally makes the laws then carries them out. I don't see you making an Enumerated Duties argument, and you're argument is without substance (no evidence its anything but a personal edict)

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Here, genius - https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/sa/R-REC-SA.1154-0-199510-I!!PDF-E.pdf [itu.int] - and as you can see, the USA is a member state of the ITU - https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-R/terrestrial/fmd/pages/administrations_members.aspx [itu.int] - ergo the US government cannot 'legally' sell spectrum for purposes that would violate this agreement. Sure, they US Government can do whatever the hell it wants like bomb civilian boats if it wants, but that doesn't mean there won't be international repercussions.

Re:

[ArchieBunker]

Say this exact scenario was true. Would anything be done about it?

Re:

[sabbede]

Once when I was a kid playing over at my neighbor's house, we were trying to get the box for Mouse Trap down off the shelf. We were too short though, and it went horribly wrong, with the boxes falling on my friend's head. He cried, his dad sent me home, and I've never played Mouse Trap.

Your mission, Mr Bond

[greytree]

Evil genius Dr. No Leksum is taking control of our satellites. We want you to find and destroy his lair. It's probably in a bauxite mine or an extinct volcano. Make sure you use all these gadgets and shag a few chicks on the way, if you must.

Well, it's just another day in Musk / Trump world

[93 Escort Wagon]

Rules are for other people.

Re:

[Tablizer]

"Move fast and fuck others"

Iron Sky

[El_Muerte_TDS]

It's to communicate with the nazi base on the dark side of the moon

Re:Iron Sky

[martin-boundary]

Nuh-uh. Elon put the satellites in orbit upside-down.

Re:

[Shades72]

Nope, with Nazi bases in Hollow Earth instead...

Space-to-space link

[Anonymous Coward]

Playing devil’s advocate here... I (very quickly) went through the observer’s paper, and I couldn’t find any mention of the satellite’s altitude, but using the amateur-reconstructed TLE of Figure 5 (for classified Starshield USA-419) in https://satellitemap.space/tle... [satellitemap.space] I can see "Apogee Altitude: 587.67 km, Perigee Altitude: 580.72 km"

Considering that many Starlink satellites are orbiting at altitudes lower than that, they could easily claim that they were experimenting a space-t

Mump

[fluffernutter]

I can't wait until no one can do anything without Trump and Musk saying so.

There's a way to mitigate interference.

[AgTiger]

Satellites can broadcast to a tight geographic area thus minimizing any potential interference. Basically it's an aimed-cone around the antenna that restricts the signal from reaching any area other than an intended geographic circle on the ground.

Dish Network does this with local broadcast channels. If you subscribe in one geographic area, and move to another far away, you lose access to the old local network channels, not because of any digital restrictions based on zip code plus gps location, but because you're simply outside the area the signals reach.

The same technology could be implemented (perhaps already is) to mitigate any potential interference with ground-to-space signals.

Re:

[postbigbang]

And beaconing can also provide GPS and telemetry. It's easy to battle in space, take out important satellites-- unless you have to take out thousands of them. The numeric advantage in many satellites is that there is no other country coming even close to the number of Musk-launched satellites. In war, more soldiers is an advantage.

Somebody was incompetent

[gweihir]

Because pretty clearly this was not meant to be found this soon or at all. Probably made by one of the usual dumb contractors, like Microsoft.

Re:

[rickb928]

No, you know little about S-band comms, I suspect.

This sub-band, 2025-2110 MHz, is used by both federal and non-federal entities. While specified for earth-to-space communications, I suspect that Starshield is testing the impacts of space-to-space and/or space-to-earth comms, for any of several purposes.

The 2025-2110 MHz band is used worldwide by other entities, also. If they complain, there will be some more information out there, and it will be fun to see who wins. If this is more than a brief experiment

What does it say?

[nospam007]

This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way
And the stars look very different today?

Not Mysterious

[crunchy_one]

SpaceX is abusing a slice of the radio spectrum because they can get away with it. In a sane world they'd be sanctioned with escalating fines until they stop.

Re:

[Pinky's Brain]

The US government is choosing to transmit.

Even if it's fixed frequency there are reasonable explanations for wanting the capability, including it hardly makes its common use the fault of SpaceX. If it's a variable frequency transmitter you need to be suffering from Elon Derangement Syndrome to make it the fault of SpaceX.

VALIS

[lowfence]

Vast Active Living Intelligence System There are already written books about that.

Built by SpaceX for the U.S. government ...

[Pinky's Brain]

These are not SpaceX satellites in the sense people will interpret the headline, it is intentionally misleading, fake news.

First Step to Space War

[RossCWilliams]

I can imagine the reaction if China or Russia were doing this. As they soon will be. Perhaps along with North Korea, India and every other country with the capability. The outcome will be determined by how disruptive and how dependent on the disrupted communications a country is. For the last 75 years international rules have mostly been constraints on other countries with little benefit to the United States since we could and did enforce compliance with our own rules defending our own interests. That is changing. One wonders what happens if our satellite communications become inoperative and there is nothing we can do about it.

Re:

[sabbede]

What makes you think they aren't? https://www.defenseone.com/thr... [defenseone.com]

Re:

[RossCWilliams]

The linked story is related but not the same. That story is about the competition to develop anti-satellite weapons to be used against military assets. This is about interference with all satellite communications.

Re:

[sabbede]

Aren't you suggesting that this is related to satellite warfare? Something in which every major power is involved?

Also, it isn't like every satellite would be a target during a war. Communications, observation, and GPS satellites would be the primary targets. Don't think China would shoot down all the NRO satellites and leave Google Earth in place.

Besides, all that we see here is something that might be expected sat-to-sat comms, or just testing to see if the uplink/sat-to-sat channel can be used b

Re:

[sabbede]

Oops, "It isn't like every satellite wouldn't be a target"

Re:

[RossCWilliams]

Oops, "It isn't like every satellite wouldn't be a target"

Well sort of. But technology targeting individual satellites is not the same as a technology that can effectively target all of them.

Popcorn time!

[iustinp]

Just here to read all the "buh Elon bad again" comments.

Re:

[quenda]

Yes, any time a story involves Elon, Slashdot starts to look like the comment section on Youtube. Sad.

Same with Trump. I loathe the guy, but the people commenting on him here, make Trump look like a stable genius.

Though to be fair, the article itself is so lacking in facts, it is hard to make any intelligent reply, so a joke is tempting.

Up vs Down

[kiore]

Let's be charitable and assume Musk has just moved on from not knowing his arse from his elbow and is just demonstrating he doesn't know up from down either.

Bootstrapping controversy?

[sabbede]

NPR thinks it may violate an international standard. Does it really? No, but they'll find something to be upset about even if they have to make it up.

There's no sign that it's disruptive - that's what they mean when they it's "unresolved". There's no evidence that it is, but they hope there will be because that fits an agenda. It could cause problems, but it hasn't and there's no indication it will. Some people just want to make political hay out of everything.