'The AI Revolution's Next Casualty Could Be the Gig Economy' (yahoo.com) 56
"The gig economy is facing a reckoning," argues Business Insider's BI Today newsletter."
Two stories this past week caught my eye. Uber unveiled a new way for its drivers to earn money. No, not by giving rides, but by helping train the ride-sharing company's AI models instead. On the same day, Waymo announced a partnership with DoorDash to test driverless grocery and meal deliveries.
Both moves point toward the same future: one where the very workers who built the gig economy may soon find themselves training the technology that replaces them.
Uber's new program allows drivers to earn cash by completing microtasks, such as taking photos and uploading audio clips, that aim to improve the company's AI systems. For drivers, it's a way to diversify income. For Uber, it's a way to accelerate its automated future. There's an irony here. By helping Uber strengthen its AI, drivers could be accelerating the very driverless world they fear... Uber already offers autonomous rides in Waymo vehicles in Atlanta and Austin, and plans to expand. Meanwhile, Waymo is rolling out its pilot partnership with DoorDash [for driverless grocery/meal deliveries] starting in Phoenix.
Both moves point toward the same future: one where the very workers who built the gig economy may soon find themselves training the technology that replaces them.
Uber's new program allows drivers to earn cash by completing microtasks, such as taking photos and uploading audio clips, that aim to improve the company's AI systems. For drivers, it's a way to diversify income. For Uber, it's a way to accelerate its automated future. There's an irony here. By helping Uber strengthen its AI, drivers could be accelerating the very driverless world they fear... Uber already offers autonomous rides in Waymo vehicles in Atlanta and Austin, and plans to expand. Meanwhile, Waymo is rolling out its pilot partnership with DoorDash [for driverless grocery/meal deliveries] starting in Phoenix.
Canada's slave labour program at risk (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
We're all wage slaves thanks to classism, don't let this pseudo-conservative racist headline fool you, slavery is doing very well, and not just in Canada. Show me one transnational corporation or one upper class person that isn't shady and actually down right entitled and exploitative, here's the big lie folks, it's just the immigrants faults, which is just overt racism.
It's all wage slavery, we pay while the rich play.
Re:Canada's slave labour program at risk (Score:5, Interesting)
We're all wage slaves thanks to classism
I really don't like the term "wage slave", not when meant more or less literally. Please don't diminish the the horror and evil of actual slavery (remembering that still exists today) with having to work for a living. No one is threatening your physical safety with beatings and other violence because you need to support yourself. Unlike an actual slave, you can just not show up for work tomorrow and no one will try to have you killed.
Having to work to provide for yourself is part of the human condition. We've had to work since days of knapping flints and running after gazelles. The nature of work has changed but short of receiving manna from heaven, we've always had to work. It's not slavery unless it's slavery to the physical world.
Show me one transnational corporation or one upper class person that isn't shady and actually down right entitled and exploitative
I've worked at a number of large and small high tech companies. I don't think any of them have been especially shady or exploitative. The internal conversations were always how do we produce great products our customers are eager to buy.
I'm quite well off by historical and geographic standards. You probably are too if you have time to post on Slashdot. I don't think I'm shady or exploitative. Most of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances seem to be fine, upstanding people (with some exceptions, because we're all flawed humans). How about the people you deal with day to day? How many are mostly good people and how many are money hungry monsters?
Oh FFS (Score:2)
Like a lot of words in english, slave can have different nuanced meanings in different contexts. Its not reserved just for people enslaved or their ancestors so please don't pretend otherwise unless you think for example master-slave tty's are example of kernel cruelty.
Re: (Score:2)
i mean, the commenter has a point. using the word 'slave' in the context of 'i'm not being paid well' kinda dilutes the meaning of the term. it's like using 'genocide' to refer to every goddamn thing
Re: (Score:2)
"wage slave" is a pretty old term. Yeah, some people overegg things to get sympathy but its hardly a new use of the word.
Re: (Score:2)
just because a phrase is in use for a while doesn't make it above reproach
Re: (Score:2)
That... isn't what it means? It's not simply "I wish my boss paid me more because then I could also be a lazy slob like him"
It's an observation that a system can be set up such that it gives the illusion of choice and freedom to those who are in it, while simultaneously undermining them if they attempt to do anything other than proscribed actions, all while creating excess value for an oligarch or a group of shareholders. It's an observation that certain types of capitalism systems are just financial feudal
Re: (Score:2)
To be honest (Score:3)
It's not like a Uber driver would like to make a lifelong career out of that. So they'd train their future robotic ov, err, substitutes for a few dollars more, no problem.
But yeah, it looks pretty dystopic.
On the other hand, I doubt automated delivery would succeed, there already experiences that automated delivery vehicles constantly malfunction, get stuck, get vandalized/robbed, etc.
Waymo taxis already cause trouble in dead-end streets and other atypical scenarios.
Re: (Score:2)
A gig, was supposed to be something that supplemented another income. Or was a temporary measure.
Well, good news. The vast majority of sharing economy workers (think: Lyft and Uber divers, Door Dashers) do, in fact, use it as a side gig to augment their income from a conventional job. These are the people being offered a new gig: gather training data for AI models.
Some people, think free lance writers or graphic artists, use free lance work for full-time income. But not all of these, a lot work part time for any number of reasons. These are not the people TFA was talking about.
Building an entire economy around that,
More good news: the vast
If AI replaces every job is there an economy? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the AI Capitalist wet dream. AI sells the capitalist the slave labour they always dreamed of so the psychopaths can truly "own" their businesses rather than having to rely on herding pesky humans with all their feelings and families and other inconveniences.
Fair enough, capitalism has created some truly bullshit min wage jobs I wont miss, but if no one is working in this utopia, where does the money come from to buy the things the robots are producing and the services they provide?
Re:If AI replaces every job is there an economy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I can see that. Might explain why we see corporate bloat, entropy and inflation. Maybe they should be a bit more efficient. Perhaps that's the capitalist problem, focus on profit and not sustainability commercially or environmentally. Capitalism has primitive motivations, it's got animal cunning, but that's about it.
Profitability is always cost dependent. You cant determine profit without knowing your cost.
You don't answer my question. In the "you don't work, AI/robots do it all" future we're being punted,
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't want to believe it, but one wild thought is that the robots are stopgap measure to extract the last bit of wealth out of the masses before putting them out of their misery. If they had to use workers, some of it will trickle back down (horrors!) and it would be that much harder to get the very last drop. Once that's done, they don't need the masses any more.
Looking at what they're doing in the U.S. (cutting health care, cutting food assistance, putting farmers out of business and buying up their
Re:If AI replaces every job is there an economy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't let the grifters hoodwink you: What they're selling right now isn't AI at all, it's an expert system. These things can't do anything but spit out answers based on limited data training sets. You can't even let them roam freely without rules because they'll end up "poisoned" by the data and have to be wiped. Why? They can't make any factual judgments based on the data alone. They "read" enough Holocaust denial stuff without rules that it is NOT trusted data point, they'll start regurgitating that crap and might even start calling itself Mecha-Hitler. Why? Because it's nothing more than a Liza bot.
What most people think of as AI is HAL 9000, Skynet, Colossus / Guardian, Andromeda Ascendant / Rommie, or any one of a thousand other artificial systems that not only spit out answers based on stored data, but have volition of their own to create new goals, and/or the ability to seek data without prompting.
Re:If AI replaces every job is there an economy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Second, if a businessman does actually succeed in creating a useful product using AI and zero workers, two others will realize whats happening, do exactly the same thing, the three single-person companies will compete for customers by lowering their prices, and the price of whatever product theyre making will asymptote towards zero. Pretty damn quickly, I suspect. The end result - the cost and price of the product will be about the same as sunlight or rainwater.
Or, those three people meet up and set a minimum floor price for their product, to ensure that all three make massive profits. Then they get on with manipulating markets, politicians and laws to entrench their dominance, ensure that newcomers can't compete, that their product is a required part of other businesses, that future regulations will benefit their business etc etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are you a fundamentalist? In the ISIS of capitalism. A blind faith believer.
You're chimp brain was triggered. I forgive you
Capitalism is a an economic model where people get to own businesses. What's their motivation to do that, greed, an intense desire for more.
You may not like the word greed, for good reason, it's not friendly or socially acceptable behaviour at a party, a sheep dog like me will call you out as a wolf.
Intense desire can also be to have the best product, qualified by market share. Some pr
Re: (Score:2)
This is the AI Capitalist wet dream.
Said the opponents of every productivity improvement, ever. Why would we expect AI-led productivity improvements to be any different?
We invented steam looms. Did textile employment fall because home weavers were put out of business? No, employment surged as fabric became cheaper and more people could afford more than one change of clothes. Textile workers became better off because you create a lot more value working a power loom than you do a hand loom and that translated to higher wages (higher, that is, t
Re: (Score:2)
We are not disagreeing. AI to augment work as a tool is good.
Capitalism is "owning the means of production" , following that mantra as a fundamentalist, you want to own your labour, it's good risk management. We have to manage that intention or the labour ends up jobless, with no money to buy your products, or as slaves who will revolt and burn your business down.
Re: (Score:2)
Capitalism is "owning the means of production" , following that mantra as a fundamentalist, you want to own your labour, it's good risk management. We have to manage that intention or the labour ends up jobless, with no money to buy your products, or as slaves who will revolt and burn your business down.
Sorry, I don't think I'm following you. Are you saying that as a business owner, I want to own the labor which I need to produce goods? I guess so but you can't legally buy laborers anywhere, that's literal slavery. All a business owner can buy is some hours of your time.
Are you also saying as a business owner, I have to make sure I pay my workers enough so that they can buy my products (a la the common story about Henry Ford)? No, I don't think so. Very few if any businesses employ enough people to make t
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, I don't think I'm following you. Are you saying that as a business owner, I want to own the labor
When you are a business owner, maybe you might consider the advantages of slave labour. Many have in the past. British plantation owners were capitalists too, our government only recently stopped paying them for their loss of "capital" when they were made to free their slaves. Today there are places in the world where immigrant workers passports are seized as leverage to make them work for little, with no rights in dangerous conditions. We call it modern day slavery, the chains look different, but they are
Re: (Score:2)
Slave lobor implies exploitation. Can you exploit a machine?
Re: (Score:2)
Guess not, at least until they can let us know they feel exploited.
We can be over dependent on them and that's not a good survival strategy. The machines stop working when the lights go out. History shows the lights go out regularly.
Re: (Score:2)
Meh, I don't feel bad for the "gig economy". That thing is exploitation.
Look at companies like Uber. Do they pay for the car wear and tear?
Do they provide an insurance? Do you know taxi drivers need another insurance (and Uber drivers would too) because they have a huge liability when their passenger is hurt in an accident? Uber ignores that and makes it a problem of their "gig employees" who break the terms of their insurances by have commercial passengers.
Do you know that taxi drivers need to have physica
Re: (Score:2)
I think the taxi companies missed the trick. Uber is just handy, it generally works.
Taxi firms could get together and do the same, or someone could offer it to them, then they have the convenience and the safety.
I don't like Uber either, they are grifting parasites.
Re: (Score:2)
I am sure taxi companies can improve. I just don't think Uber is an improvement, but I think they are exploiting people who think they are clever entrepreneurs while Uber profits of them.
they can't climb steps (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
That'l go over well in cities (Score:2)
And they will still ask you for a tip.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm more worried about getting it to my door in a single family house. In the example you describe, the DoorDash robot can pass it off to the resident robot, and the resident robot will take it to your room. This latter part is already working in some Chinese hotels from what I experienced, and presumably in other Asian hotels as well (I didn't see it in Japan, which is kind of ironic).
I won't have such a robot in my house.
Video games as inspiration? (Score:2)
earn cash by completing microtasks
Microtransactions from video games? There's an idea. (Sarcasm on) Why not turn every job into a gig of microtransactions? Every task from the boss is given a dollar amount, and you get paid when its completed. There could also be little monetary incentives, like if you compliment a fellow employee, $0.50+. Or if you misbehave, that'll cost you. Think of the productivity increase. No time difference from the task completed to reward. Not like a forgotten paycheck that seems entitled anyways. A tight relation
Re: (Score:2)
Good (Score:2)
Gig economy was invented by big corporations trying to sidestep work regulations and minimum wage. The whole scheme should have never been allowed to happen.
Worst Drivers & Riders (Score:2)
Predicted in 2016 (Score:2)
This 2021 paper [h-brs.de] cites a 2016 source for:
my gig is SAFE - I fold your laundry (Score:2)
You need hands, dawg
Re: (Score:3)
Lol! There are automatic folding machines for some time now. Just Google it.
Uber is evil (Score:2)
When the business model is to buy politicians in order to corrupt and pervert livery laws, that's evil, Uber and the other slave corporations should never have been allowed, but this is what happens in a corrupt and classist economy. Freedom is done, we're all either wage slaves or privileged these days, welcome to have and have nots. We sold ourselves out, and this is exactly what greed does to stupid people.
but they will own and maintain the cars? (Score:2)
but they will own and maintain the cars?
So how can that be cheaper then under paying an driver to use their own car?
Re: (Score:2)
That's actually a good question. Executives are probably calculating that having their own FSD-fleet will be cheaper than the current scenario. But we've seen so much exaggerated tech-optimism lately that it's hard to be sure.
It is inevitable (Score:2)
If you haven't, go for a drive in a Waymo. Or check out the most recent Tesla FSD software.
It is obvious that this is going to replace human drivers in a lot of applications and roles.
AI is real. Welcome to the terrifying future.
Sure but, (Score:1)
I thought gig economy jobs weren't good enough? (Score:3)
Despite millions of individuals exercising their free will to work gig economy jobs, evidently because they determined that to be their most attractive option, there has been a lot of commentary over the years that these jobs "weren't good enough". I've seen countless airmchair protests that the pay, or benefits, or conditions aren't adequate for a human worker. Now, when suddenly it may be possible that human workers will no longer have to do these jobs, are the same comentators worried about the loss of jobs? It doesn't compute...
Re: (Score:1)
Take your propaganda away, "libertarian".
They didn't "exercise their free will", they took what they could find. As a computer professional - retired now - I was out of work for almost five fucking years during the W Bush recession. Instead of saying "he's out of work, we can hire him cheaper", HR - mostly outsourced now - says "well, you're not fresh" (that's a direct quote), and won't even look at you.
You should turn off Faux Noise and get out of your basement occasionally.
Re: (Score:3)
Goodness me! That there is some righteous ad-hominem bitterness towards a person you've never met! But help me understand - will be better that the gig economy jobs cease to exist, so the people who "took what they could find" will no longer be able to find even that?
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, a ad hominem would not be what I did, since I *quoted* him, and "enlightened self-interest" is a pure libertarian phrase.
Remember a time before Uber? (Score:3)
Uber launched in 2010. It seemed crazy to get in the car with a total stranger, but people quickly warmed up to the idea.
Now it's 15 years later, and we're worried that this is going to go away, and jobs will be decimated.
However did we survive before Uber anyway?
Before Uber, nobody conceived of such a way to earn money. In the unlikely event that robotaxies will completely make Uber driving a thing of the past, some other new kind of work will pop up, just like Uber provided a brand new line of work that nobody thought of before.
Re: (Score:2)
Uber launched in 2010. It seemed crazy to get in the car with a total stranger, but people quickly warmed up to the idea.
Now it's 15 years later, and we're worried that this is going to go away, and jobs will be decimated.
However did we survive before Uber anyway?
Before Uber, nobody conceived of such a way to earn money. In the unlikely event that robotaxies will completely make Uber driving a thing of the past, some other new kind of work will pop up, just like Uber provided a brand new line of work that nobody thought of before.
Driving a taxi was a job before Uber came along. Driving a taxi was job before cars were invented. There were even "gig" type taxi drivers (i.e, they drove taxis occasionally to supplement their other job or family commitments) The only innovation Uber made was outsourcing the cost of the vehicles to the workers.
Re: (Score:2)
While your comments are true, they aren't really relevant. Cars were a thing before Henry Fort too, but hardly anybody had one until Henry Ford. Taxis were a thing before Uber, but unless you lied in a major urban area, good luck actually getting a ride in one. Before Uber and Lyft, there were about half a million taxi drivers, Uber and Lyft increased that total (if you call them taxi drivers) by about 5x.
Not a new thing... (Score:2)
20 years ago I trained my Indian replacement, and then took a package. I worked as a contractor for a few more years before retiring. All corp's are bloodsuckers with no regard for the humans that they exploit. My father worked his whole life for the same private company and got well taken care of. A corp. doesn't even understand the concept.