ISP Deceived Customers About Fiber Internet, German Court Finds (tomshardware.com) 36
The German Koblenz Regional Court has banned the internet service provider 1&1 from marketing its fiber-to-the-curb service as fiber-optic DSL. The court found that the company misled customers because its network uses copper cables for the final stage of connections, sometimes extending up to a mile from the distribution box to subscribers' homes.
Customers who visited the ISP's website and checked connection availability received a notification stating that a "1&1 fiber optic DSL connection" was available, even though fiber optic cables terminate at street-level distribution boxes or building service rooms. The company pairs the copper lines with vectoring technology to boost DSL speeds to 100 megabits per second. The Federation of German Consumer Organizations filed the lawsuit. Ramona Pop, the organization's chairperson, said that anyone who promises fiber optics but delivers only DSL is deceiving customers.
Customers who visited the ISP's website and checked connection availability received a notification stating that a "1&1 fiber optic DSL connection" was available, even though fiber optic cables terminate at street-level distribution boxes or building service rooms. The company pairs the copper lines with vectoring technology to boost DSL speeds to 100 megabits per second. The Federation of German Consumer Organizations filed the lawsuit. Ramona Pop, the organization's chairperson, said that anyone who promises fiber optics but delivers only DSL is deceiving customers.
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Sometimes words matter. If Germany has a law that says "Fiber Optic Internet" means fiber to the house, then 1&1 must follow that law. I'm sure they had multiple warnings before the ruling.
There are similar laws worldwide to protect customer's expectations. Butter and cheese must contain dairy or you must use a different name. In some countries Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France or it must be sold as sparkling wine. Ice Cream must contain a certain percentage of cream or it mus
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So if I have an apartment complex deliver fibre to the basement and then Cat6a to the flats at speeds up to 10Gbps, I can't call it fibre internet because the last bit is over copper? Noting that unless you are plugging an SFP-based ONT into a suitable NIC in your computer, the last bit is coming over copper or even wirelessly.
Re: Gotta have something to complain about, I supp (Score:2)
What do you mean by 'it'?
Sounds like you would have FTTP in your scenario.
And the story has FTTC. Common in the UK. Virgin media (cable compay) for example bang on about their Fibre network constantly. But most people are on coax. FTTP is a thing here too now that mostly POTS and DSL are not really such a thing here anymorr.
Re: Gotta have something to complain about, I sup (Score:2)
I dunno. If I ordered fttp, I'd expect it to reach my flat, not the basement. In Finland, my flat had fibre to each flat, which was all routed through a basement patch panel - I forget if there was any other equipment there.
It's ambiguous, which I guess is the point.
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In Australia, FTTC (to the curb/cabinet - fibre terminated at a cabinet or pit on the street, then copper to the customer premises), FTTB (to the building/basement - fibre terminated in a utility room in the building, then copper internal building wiring to each dwelling/office suite) and FTTP (to the premises - fibre terminated on the customer's premises) are all treated as different categories of service.
I currently have one FTTP service and one HFC service. I previously had FTTB. I have to say that FTT
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You don't need a law. Words have connotations, and when people advertise DSL internet, cable internet, or fibre internet, the connotation is that these words mean the final hop to your house. No one sells internet advertised based on what the backhaul infrastructure looks like, precisely because people often have a minimum clue about what outlets are already around their house.
There's no specific law for fibre internet in Germany, it's just basic misleading marketing.
By the way I'm on a Hybrid Fibre Coaxial
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The icecream one has been a thing for decades in Australia - if it doesn't contain enough cream, it's called "ice confection".
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But, I'm not German.
Well duh (Score:2)
I never understood the RFoG boxes that have coax coming from the street and PON to the customer.
Newsworthy (Score:2)
Finally found an ISP worse than comcast I see.
Yes, I use the name comcast still. I know they have tried to rebrand to Xfinity because their name was so bad. That is why I use it. It is bad. They shouldn't be allowed to get away from it.
Cox (Score:4, Interesting)
>"The court found that the company misled customers because its network uses copper cables for the final stage of connections, sometimes extending up to a mile from the distribution box to subscribers' homes."
Yeah, the marketing name game. A lot like the words "unlimited" or "free".
Cox Communications calls their home coax cable modem service "Powered by Fiber". Hmmm, that is cutting it a bit close. Technically, ALL ISP's are probably "powered" by "fiber". It is true that most of Cox's modern network is now fiber, but the last step to the home, at the neighborhood level, is still coax. And it suffers from all the typical signal interference, leveling problems, and channel bonding errors we have had for eons.
That said, I am lucky and my home connection seems to be very reliable. But just a few blocks away, where I manage an almost identical connection, it is a nightmare of constant issues. Dropped packets, long ping times, regular outages (sometimes many per month). It is on a different "node", so I am told.
Anyway, my point is that the biggest advantage of fiber is not speed (at least not when talking about home connections), it is reliability/lack of interference. And one doesn't get that unless the fiber makes it all the way to your house.
And yes, finally, there is a fiber-to-the-home option in my neighborhood from a competitor. But their pricing is too high to have me bother changing to it. I think they are still trying to milk pissed-off Cox customers at high prices and haven't tried undercutting yet (that might happen later). Their service is more expensive, but twice as fast (and CGNAT, so you have to pay $10 more per month to get around that "feature"). But I don't need the speed. At 300/30 I am just fine. Yet it is nice to finally have choices and perhaps having competition might get Cox improving services and lowering prices.
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They pulled the same shit in the UK, calling crappy DSL "fibre optic broadband".
Fortunately we now have real fibre, and some competition, which has pushed prices down.
For CGNAT, the best option depends on what you are trying to do, but I'd suggest either use a VPN that supports port forwarding (for P2P etc.) or Cloudflare Zero Trust/Tailscale (for apps). The latter two help avoid exposing any machines on your network to unfiltered incoming connections.
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Cox has played that game before; and lost. They were trying to compare themselves to FiOS 15 years ago and insulting Verizon because Cox has "had fiber for years now". It literally wasn't adveritising specials or anything; just a "we're better, they suck" followed by deception.
Judge didn't buy it, and the NAB didn't buy it. They got a pretty hefty fine and I think they weren't allowed to advertise for several months. This may have been just in the local area too.
But they got in trouble because they didn't s
They are delivering ... (Score:1)
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It's marketing. I live across the Baltic from Germans, and "fiber DSL" has been a thing here too. But here they at least would immediately admit that it's not fiber if you asked. It was just a marketing term.
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And naugas [naugahyde.com] have been driven to extinction. So that's out as well.
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This is the "first time" meme moment. First time you are an expert in something marketing makes absurd claims about?
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Sure, maybe they deliver 100 Mbps, but they do *not* deliver fiber internet. Yeah, I know advertisements lie all the time. That doesn't mean we have to be OK with it.
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I'm inspired to do a speed test right now and see what I'm getting.....
Download : 590 Mbps
Upload: 89 Mbps
That's using t-mobile 5g home internet, sitting in bed with my phone, connected wirelessly to the router sitting in my office on the other side of the hallway, upstairs, behind two closed doors, or two walls as the crow flies.
For $50/month, all-in.
I don't think I have much room to complain.
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That's using fast.com for the speed test.
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That's pretty good. I'd see if they have service in my area but unfortunately they are one of the corporations that paid a build-the-ballroom bribe so now they're dead to me.
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The great thing about cutting your nose off to spite your face is that you eventually run out of nose.
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The great thing about cutting your nose off to spite your face is that you eventually run out of nose.
The great thing about licking boots is that they will always find a new boot to put in your mouth. Great if you love licking boots, that is.
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I love the taste of leather in the morning.
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People who are planning for the future care. 1&1 do actually offer fibre plans with actual FTTH as well. If you're planning on future proofing your house you'll be pretty pissed if signed up for fibre, had someone install "fibre" only to then find out a year later that your neighbour had a gigabit connection only to be told no you can't upgrade your 100mbit connection, and no you can't switch to another provider who would do it properly because you're under a 3 year contract. Also fibre is almost univer
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But these people still have a DSL line in from the curb. They pay for 20 Mbps (lets say) and they are owed that. It's true that a speed upgrade may be more easily made available if there's fiber at that curb. But utilities (at least here) may choose to not offer an upgrade for many other reasons. DSL to the house is standard and that's what you get.
It's all fiber! (Score:2)
Partially self defeating? (Score:2)
Installing fibre internet involves construction work. Plenty of people would prefer to choose something that they already have. Why advertise it is fibre?
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Most of the major construction work for fiber is usually done before they start advertising it's available. Those are just the guys working out on the street in your neighborhood. Installing it to the home is not a huge deal anymore either. My fiber install was far more involved than most people due to the length and it's on poles; but it still took them less than half a day to hang the fiber and then bury it from the pole to my house. Like you could call one day for service, crew shows up at 8am the next d
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No you miss the point for the consumer. Most of the major construction work has zero impact on people. Yes we have fibre running down our street but if *I* want to sign up for a fibre connection it will involve my front yard being dug up, my foundation being drilled through, and a new fibre access point being installed in the house.
In fact if you want to get technical the "major construction work" in many parts of Europe isn't done by ISPs but rather from fibre wholesalers who then lease their fibre network
Kinda like Windstream in the US, can't get 100DL (Score:2)
Bell Canada (Score:1)
Upc does this also (Score:2)