Microsoft's Next Xbox Will Run Full Windows and Eliminate Multiplayer Paywall, Report Says (windowscentral.com) 66
Microsoft's next Xbox console will run full Windows and allow users to exit the Xbox interface to access Steam, Epic Games Store, Battle.net, and other PC storefronts, according to Windows Central. The device will launch without a multiplayer paywall. Xbox CEO Phil Spencer told users last week to look at the Xbox Ally handheld for an indication of where Xbox is headed. The company has been using the Ally as a beta test to gather feedback on the experience that will power its next wave of console hardware.
The new Xbox will include the entire Xbox console library spanning original Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X/S titles. These games will run natively and launch through the Xbox launcher's library. Users staying within the Xbox ecosystem will encounter an onboarding experience similar to current consoles. Those who choose to access Windows will be able to install PlayStation PC titles like God of War and Spider-Man purchased through Steam or Epic Games.
The new Xbox will include the entire Xbox console library spanning original Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X/S titles. These games will run natively and launch through the Xbox launcher's library. Users staying within the Xbox ecosystem will encounter an onboarding experience similar to current consoles. Those who choose to access Windows will be able to install PlayStation PC titles like God of War and Spider-Man purchased through Steam or Epic Games.
Going meta with stores (Score:2)
Supporting "Steam, Epic Games Store, Battle.net, and other PC storefronts" feels similar to how an Amazon Fire Stick supports Prime video along with Netflix, Hulu, Paramount, Disney+, etc... Not sure how it will go for gaming, but that plethora of "services" has really soured me on streaming video along with a lot of other people. Microsoft probably sees this as a way to dilute interest in Steam boxes and Linux as competitors by "supporting" them - an abundance of them.
My advice: Get Steam on Linux and n
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It's a regular PC running regular Windows.
They don't "support" Steam- they're just not going to disallow you running it on your XBox-branded PC (that hopefully still comes with some pretty cool AMD APUs packed full of GDDR)
They're in 3rd place, no monopoly here (Score:2)
Or it's an attempt at avoiding antitrust hot water, as closed ecosystems are under pretty serious attack right now. It's a regular PC running regular Windows. They don't "support" Steam- they're just not going to disallow you running it on your XBox-branded PC (that hopefully still comes with some pretty cool AMD APUs packed full of GDDR)
First of all, XBox has no monopoly. They're losing...badly. This reminds me of their Azure shift under Nadella...let's stop fucking the customer with our stupidity and focus on making them happy for a profit. Ballmer was a total assclown. He was fucking useless. Nadella changed the focus of the company from locking you in to simply making money, especially through Azure. Similarly, they're happy to sell you licenses to Call of Duty on a PS5...because money is fucking money.
Finally, consider the RO
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Neither Google or Apple have a monopoly either.
Would you like to recompute and try again?
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For gaming we have the choice of Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Android, and Apple for significant platforms. Linux is viable too. It's a pretty competitive space really.
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All that matters is the barrier to move to those spaces.
This is the fundamental danger of closed ecosystems.
Antitrust law comes with a concept of a "relevant market".
Adding everything you can think of that plays a game does not a relevant market make.
It's important to remember that Apple was not considered within Microsoft's relevant market for its antitrust proceedings in the early 2000s, because the barrier to moving all of your applications to the new platform was too high.
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It's important to remember that Apple was not considered within Microsoft's relevant market for its antitrust proceedings in the early 2000s, because the barrier to moving all of your applications to the new platform was too high.
This was also easy to do because Apple was a tiny fraction of the company that it is today.
What you're talking about with the walled gardens should have weight in any proceedings but doesn't completely eliminate the fact that there are multiple platforms for gaming available. If a walled garden always equals monopoly then virtually every game system ever made would be a monopoly after all.
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Hmm. I doubt theres too much worry about that. Whereas phones have a fully locked down duopoly , theres a tonne of competition in the console space with 3 major players, and a boatload of minor ones, and even running old C64s and N64s and the like. It was always understood consoles ran on loss leader economics. The manufacturers take a loss on the console in return for a profit on game sales. So the arguments that work for phones dont really work for consoles. At least to a matter of degree.
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Hmm. I doubt theres too much worry about that. Whereas phones have a fully locked down duopoly , theres a tonne of competition in the console space with 3 major players, and a boatload of minor ones, and even running old C64s and N64s and the like.
Kind of. The landscape is rife with exclusivity agreements, which is highly anticompetitive. This is on machines that are virtually identical on the inside.
Sony has faced antitrust scrutiny in the EU for this.
Microsoft settled an antitrust lawsuit in the US.
The manufacturers take a loss on the console in return for a profit on game sales.
Microsoft is actually alone in this, now.
PS5 and Nintendo are selling profitable units.
So the arguments that work for phones dont really work for consoles. At least to a matter of degree.
The arguments never really mattered. That is something people lose sight of a lot in antitrust discussions.
They think {n}opoly is a factor.
Anticompetitive behavio
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Supporting "Steam, Epic Games Store, Battle.net, and other PC storefronts" feels similar to how an Amazon Fire Stick supports Prime video along with Netflix, Hulu, Paramount, Disney+, etc... Not sure how it will go for gaming, but that plethora of "services" has really soured me on streaming video along with a lot of other people.
I think it really depends on the business model. It sucks when its a service you pay a recurring fee for for "buffet" content. MOST streaming works that way. Gaming has some options there but most of the content is still sold as individual purchases.
In that regard, I don't care as much. I don't want to feel like I have to subscribe to a half a dozen different services to play or watch a specific title, but if I'm paying a one time fee for it, I don't much care which one I bought it on. I mostly prefer S
I'll try anything once... (Score:5, Informative)
If I can get a PC, plus a gaming console (kinda) for under $1,000, I will definitely do it.
My biggest problem with PC gaming is trying to stay up with the current hardware. My computer is a few years old, and now it's too slow to run most of the new games.
Give me a reasonable experience that will last for 5 years, AND function as a computer, and I am all-in. Try to charge me $600 for a gaming console, and I'm not interested.
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That's weird, my cpu is 13 years old and was mid at the time I bought it, my gpu is 5 and not a high end one, my 16 gigs of ram are ancient and I can still run most games. In fact I don't think I've encountered a game my computer can't run at mid specs yet. The only one that stutters a little bit is Mount and Blade Bannerlord in big battles.
But I haven't bought all games so I'm sure there are some out there which might be too much. The new Battlefield 6 has a minimum requirement of a 2060, but I don't reall
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Mine is an I-7. It runs everything fine so far. Perhaps if I tried to build a huge city on Cities Skylines 2 or a huge dwarf fortress with 400 dwarves that would be too much, but I haven't tried. But I do play RDR2, the new FFVII, Squad, Dark Souls 3 and Baldur's Gate 3, games that I've read are supposed to have high hardware standards. Elden Ring might be a challenge for it, but I suspect that's mostly a gpu intensive game.
Re: I'll try anything once... (Score:2, Funny)
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I don't get a boner for having old computer parts. I upgrade them when I feel I need to. I got my 16 gigs of ram to play PubG. I'll probably have to upgrade again because visual studio demands I should have 32 gigs.
A lot of games really don't use the CPU very much, but my 1-7 does a great job with factorio and satisfactory.
A lot of games were made so they can run on the playstation 5, which came out 5 years ago and was already behind in its hardware. Or the switch, which is an even less powerful machine.
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The PS5 was modern at launch.
It uses Zen 2 for the CPU, and AMD launched Zen 3 seven days before the PS5's global launch with Zen 2 being under 18 months old at that point.
And RDNA 2 for graphics which was launched as GPUs from AMD six days after the PS5's global launch.
The limitation was related to clock speeds. This allows the console to run at a much lower power limit versus a mid ranged gaming PC.
I went from a i7 2600K to a Zen 2 CPU in 2019 and some games doubled in frame rate using the same GPU. The P
SteamDeck (Score:2)
Give me a reasonable experience that will last for 5 years, AND function as a computer, and I am all-in.
In the mobile space this is basically why Valve (unlike their competitors) is not releasing a new console with slightly bumped up specs every few months, or why the line-up of Steam Decks only vary in specs (storage, screen type, cosmetics) that don't affect performance (same APU for all, the gains from the newer process used in newer OLED's APU is used to reduce power consumption, not make the APU go faster. The entry level and the top of the line Steam Deck will give you the same FPS) (unlike, e.g, Ally v
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If I can get a PC, plus a gaming console (kinda) for under $1,000, I will definitely do it.
My biggest problem with PC gaming is trying to stay up with the current hardware. My computer is a few years old, and now it's too slow to run most of the new games.
Give me a reasonable experience that will last for 5 years, AND function as a computer, and I am all-in. Try to charge me $600 for a gaming console, and I'm not interested.
That's basically what this console is going to be, a laptop that's less useful than a laptop. You can already get a gaming laptop with reasonable but low budget hardware for close to what a console costs, with console prices going up soon it's going to be cheaper.
My gaming computers and laptops have lasted for 5 years now for well over a decade. Does a Xbox/PS last that long without YLOD/RROD-ing?
The fact is, Sony and Microsoft can't keep making the hardware at a loss. Especially with gaming laptops a
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My biggest problem with PC gaming is trying to stay up with the current hardware.
The only value consoles have is:
1) A standardized controller layout
2) A hardware baseline that is reliable to know in advance which games will run and for developers to target.
They are releasing a new generation of console to satisfy the two things above, but it probably isn't the smart way. All they have to do is come out with "XBox Gaming Baseline 2026" as a certification process for gaming PCs and a way to match custom build specs to these standards. If it has the shiny sticker it will run x games.
PC G
The actual good news (Score:2)
Should be that the entire XBox catalog of original Xbox, XBox360 and modern game titles should run on your regular Windows computer many already own. And if it runs on Windows, it shall run on Wine, Crossover or Proton platforms in a *nix.
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"look at the Xbox Ally handheld for an indication of where Xbox is headed": So original Xbox games being "streamed from the cloud", rather than running locally.
Well, that makes sense and was probably predictable, given that Windows is quickly moving to a client / server model where a PC won't do much unless it's connected to Microsoft servers and you're up-to-date in your rental payments.
Microsoft wants to be a landlord, not a vendor, and they're well on their way to achieving that goal.
The "Xbox Ally" is not a console... (Score:3, Insightful)
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Will any console allow you to buy and sell used games in the future? I think it should be a thing too but it seems like nobody really wants to have physical games anymore.
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Will any console allow you to buy and sell used games in the future?
Nobody knows, but I do know that I spend money for video games only on physical media, and will stop spending any money on video games if none are offered for pure offline enjoyment.
I think it should be a thing too but it seems like nobody really wants to have physical games anymore.
The number of physical game media sold is not small, >50 million pieces in Europe alone in 2024.
But of course, games companies are free to choose not taking my money or that of other physical media buyers.
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I suspect in a generation or two, it'll be gone.
The only thing it really allows you to do is sell your old games.
You still need internet connection to even play the single player games.
The battle is pretty much lost.
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What's funny to me is that the market for used video games that are from the nostalgic era is very hot and you can sell certain games for way more than you bought them for, so the physical used game market is booming - in some sectors -
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If so, I bought many before I surrendered to the online story mafia!
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The only thing it really allows you to do is sell your old games.
Not really. You forget about DRM. You can't necessarily repair/replace the console and still play the games. The servers required for that will go away. And of course Microsoft could just decide to ban your account and you don't own any games at all.
The reason optical media is on the way out is of course because they don't want you to have true ownership but also because games are too big for optical media. Although SSD NAND is almost cheap enough to go back to cartridges.
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Not really. You forget about DRM. You can't necessarily repair/replace the console and still play the games. The servers required for that will go away. And of course Microsoft could just decide to ban your account and you don't own any games at all.
Separate problem.
That problem has existed for over a decade, long before the death knell of optical media.
The reason optical media is on the way out is of course because they don't want you to have true ownership but also because games are too big for optical media. Although SSD NAND is almost cheap enough to go back to cartridges.
Most games fit on optical media.
A good amount of AAA games don't, that is very true.
Re: The "Xbox Ally" is not a console... (Score:2)
You call it a separate problem but it's the reason I don't own any digital only consoles. You lose a lot more ownership than resale capabilities. And I usually buy with the future in mind.
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However- I still don't see how you lose any more ownership than resale capabilities.
Every single game on a modern console- even opticals (both of which mine are) still authorize online.
i.e., even with physical media, you still can't play if Xbox bans your account.
It's fucked, but like I said, I think the battle is lost, and the real reason optical is dead is simply because it just doesn't matter except for resale
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Yeah, the Asus "Xbox" Ally X is really just an XBox App skin over Windows 11. Mostly because Windows 11 is painful to control with a D Pad and a 7" touch screen.
Most reviewers who have tried the "console" don't seem to like it, and they prefer the Steam Deck interface better. Some early adopters have even gone so far as to reformat the device and put Bazitte on it.
It'll just be a mess (Score:3, Interesting)
Well Xbox is going the way of Zune, Windows CE, Windows mobile and Clippy. The Xbox 360 was peak Xbox. All downhill once they released that horrible 'Xbox One is your new cable box' marketing campaign.
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The Zune was ahead of its time. Chippy was just an attempt to get grand parent's to learn how to open a file manager. Window's CE/mobile was designed on systems that ran under 200mhz and very little memory, but kept the "windows experience". Essentially, they were good ideas but Microsoft didn't want to go all in on the concept. Once they realized they would have to spend years or decades to improve it they cut their losses. Google is just the same, I am still amazed Android is as good as it is after
So they're making the games a subscription? (Score:2)
This is microsoft we're talking about. They love their subscriptions. No way they're going to give up a subscription revenue stream unless they're going to 100x it some other way.
They're trying to do away with subsidized hardware (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically they want what valve has but they don't want to be valve. They don't for example want to create a user and developer friendly platform run by a guy that everybody trusts not to stab them in the back.
So basically the next Xbox is going to probably cost at least $700 or $800 maybe more. Because Microsoft doesn't want to lose money or even break even on the hardware.
But they are counting on people not being able to figure out how to install steam. Which might work with a lot of console gamers.
As for me the reason I am a PC gamer is that I get good value from the hardware. I can do all my PC stuff and I spend about $400 every 5 years on a new CPU motherboard and RAM and about,... Well it used to be about $100 on a new GPU every two and a half to three years but that's out the window.
The crazy cost of modern video cards is what's changing my calculus. At a minimum I've got to spend $400 to get something worth upgrading from my ancient GTX 1080. Which itself was bought used for $150.
So I'm looking at about $1,000 every 5 years to play games on my computer now. Microsoft has to beat that price at a minimum.
There is one hard part Microsoft is going to have which is if they go full PC they lose the ability to write to bare metal which they do periodically and even for the people who don't they lose the really really advanced automatic resolution scaling that the consoles have.
Both the Xbox and the PlayStation will dynamically scale the resolution whereas with PC you usually have to set a hard resolution scale option.
PC cards have this with dlss and FRS but they don't seem to work as well as on the consoles. Not entirely sure why but it's how the PS5 and the xbone have been able to stay competitive even though they're running what's basically a GTX 2080.
We will have to see. There's also the possibility that Microsoft will still slightly subsidize the hardware or that they might get a better deal from AMD then I can buying my own GPU.
I know the 8060 looks pretty impressive but AMD only puts it on super high-end hardware meant for AI workstations so it's kind of pointless because you've got something that has 4060 to 4070 level performance but comes on a $2,000 desktop or a 2500 laptop and at that point I can buy something with a 5060 or even a 5070 that's going to run rings around it.
And finally the question is will the bootloader on Microsoft's hardware be unlocked so I can install Linux if I want to. I'm too lazy to do it right now but when does 11 sucks so hard that I would be tempted. I'm still on Windows 10
So it is obsolete? (Score:2)
Well, nothing of value will be lost.
So? (Score:1)
If I wanted to sign up to just give more and more money to a multinational corporation AND put all my personal information on someone else's servers to help train AIs and enable scammers who can get through Microsoft's "security", then I'd consider this. Only Microsoft has the gall to charge you for being their product.
But no, I think I'll keep my money for myself and protect my personal information from Microsoft farming it out to whoever.
Two decades late (Score:3)
XBOX has always been a distraction to Microsoft. One of the worst mistakes Microsoft has made, together with ditching Windows Phone.
They should have made closely controlled HTPCs for standard Windows with high QA standards, similar to Chromebooks. This would have improved their image and would have had a knock on effect on the reliability of Windows in general.
They likely would have had competition to Steam before Valve could dominate the market, but because PC gaming was seen as competition by the XBOX group their eyes were off the ball.
I don't get it? (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's full blown Windows with a PC experience then why bother purchasing an Xbox?
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"not to users" - exactly.
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So upgrading your Xbox's hardware is out of the question then. Still sounds to me like a no-brainer to purchase a PC instead of an Xbox. This will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Nadella has made Microsoft a confusing mess during his tenure. This just sounds like another one of his messes waiting to happen.
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I dunno, the way I build PCs it's pretty rare I ever upgrade a part on my machine. I just build a new one every 8 years.
I'm two years out from another build and looking at the price of a decent video card and thinking something like this might be a viable option to be entertained.
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So... (Score:5, Insightful)
... it'll be a PC, then?
Suuuuure it will.. (Score:2)
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Valve (Score:3)
Recent Windows as a console experience (nightmare) (Score:3)
I wanted something my kids could play in the living room. I bought official XBox controllers...they only worked wired. I would add them to bluetooth and they'd fail about every hour or 2. OK, so I tried another brand...same experience...so I bought a new bluetooth controller...same experience.
We had to keep a keyboard and mouse to reconfigure it every time it fucked up....which was daily. Every month or 2, some driver update would break something. A Switch, PS5, XBox?...just gaming....my gaming PC?...a bit of gaming a bit of troubleshooting and learning....more gaming...more troubleshooting...not a relaxing experience.
My wife HATED it. My kids HATED it. It was 90% there, but just never worked. It sucked and was a miserable failure.
6 months later, we managed to get an XBox series X....FAR superior experience. Shit just works. I hold down the X icon and it boots. I never rebooted it once.
I LOVE steam on a PC. I like the XBox ROG Ally X in theory and am considering purchasing one. However, I am very nervous because of my experience trying to make my own windows gaming console. Will it be close to the normal console experience of shit just working?...or will I be debugging something every week?
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Not sure why you were having connectivity problems with blue tooth controllers. I've gone through a couple different xbox controllers over the years and never had a problem with them getting disconnected.
I run my old gaming PCs in my living room to function as a media server / platform for lower end multiplayer gaming for when people are over. It works just as well as I thought it would although I knew I'd never get away from the occasional need for a wireless keyboard and mouse. It is still a windows PC af
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Of Course! (Score:2)
Of course Windows will now run on XBox - you only want to write that telemetry code once!
Yeam Um - Windows Central is not a trusted source (Score:1)
There are no quotes around it being able to play the _entire_ xbox catalogue natively. Its just their conjecture.
So far all we know is that it will be able to play xbox games, which may just be the ones that have PC versions you own.