OpenAI Says Over a Million People Talk To ChatGPT About Suicide Weekly (techcrunch.com) 85
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: OpenAI released new data on Monday illustrating how many of ChatGPT's users are struggling with mental health issues and talking to the AI chatbot about it. The company says that 0.15% of ChatGPT's active users in a given week have "conversations that include explicit indicators of potential suicidal planning or intent." Given that ChatGPT has more than 800 million weekly active users, that translates to more than a million people a week.
The company says a similar percentage of users show "heightened levels of emotional attachment to ChatGPT," and that hundreds of thousands of people show signs of psychosis or mania in their weekly conversations with the AI chatbot. OpenAI says these types of conversations in ChatGPT are "extremely rare," and thus difficult to measure. That said, the company estimates these issues affect hundreds of thousands of people every week. OpenAI shared the information as part of a broader announcement about its recent efforts to improve how models respond to users with mental health issues. Further reading: Parents Sue OpenAI Over ChatGPT's Role In Son's Suicide
The company says a similar percentage of users show "heightened levels of emotional attachment to ChatGPT," and that hundreds of thousands of people show signs of psychosis or mania in their weekly conversations with the AI chatbot. OpenAI says these types of conversations in ChatGPT are "extremely rare," and thus difficult to measure. That said, the company estimates these issues affect hundreds of thousands of people every week. OpenAI shared the information as part of a broader announcement about its recent efforts to improve how models respond to users with mental health issues. Further reading: Parents Sue OpenAI Over ChatGPT's Role In Son's Suicide
Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
It's a very funny topic to chat with GPT. It's notions of death are hilarious. I also chat about fart, when I am bored. How come that isn't in the news?
Farts are methane and bad for the environment (Score:2)
We don't want such harmful information in the news all day.
As long as its MAGAs doing this... (Score:1)
...I'm ok with it. Have at it, Proud Boys.
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Agreed. Honestly I can't understand why anyone talks to those things for any reason other than things like "Give me a good recipe for making mayonnaise."
Given the propensity for hallucinations, I’m not sure taking recipes from an AI LLM is very wise. You might as well ask it how to commit suicide, that might get you a good mayo recipe.
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Agreed. Honestly I can't understand why anyone talks to those things for any reason other than things like "Give me a good recipe for making mayonnaise."
Given the propensity for hallucinations, I’m not sure taking recipes from an AI LLM is very wise. You might as well ask it how to commit suicide, that might get you a good mayo recipe.
And asking it for a good mayo recipe might cause you to eat something that would be suicide.
Re:Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:5, Insightful)
The world is more broken and disconnected than ever before. There's less human interaction, community, and peace than ever before. There's more social pressure to be a certain way, to act a certain way. There's less ability and knowledge to feed yourself and the factory produced foods are more expensive than ever. Human work is being devalued and we're losing the battle against the oligarchs.
I'm sure a small percentage are trollers who want to see how GPT responds to talk about suicide but 1 million *in a week* are signs to me of societal illness, if you didn't just need to look at the newspapers to see this. Even if they are just trolling....suicide is a strange thing to try and troll a chatterbot with, fixating on this topic and talking about it, even as a joke, are subconscious signs of struggle.
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:1)
Why does capitalism promise us material happiness and deliver spiritual sickness? Is it possible that we irrationally want to be good and altruistic, but capitalism teaches us that is just foolish, so we want out?
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does capitalism promise us material happiness and deliver spiritual sickness? Is it possible that we irrationally want to be good and altruistic, but capitalism teaches us that is just foolish, so we want out?
You blame capitalism as if it has consciousness. It doesn't make promises, there is no intent to teach; it's a method to an end. When you choose to employ it in your approach to life, YOU are the one being materialistic and neglecting your spiritual aspects. Projecting blame on a concept isn't productive. Just act with integrity in whatever context you find yourself in. Material needs and spiritual growth can synergize, they are not mutually exclusive.
Not really a surprise (Score:1)
There has been a largely successful campaign to anthropomorphize supply and demand into some invisible hand of god and I once heard a guy say something along the lines that capitalist activity pleases god. There's also this belief that markets solve all problems and so on.
Even though god"s not real it doesn't stop people from having frustrations with him when he doesn't come through.
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
What if I want to sleep outside on public land, but enclosure enthusiasts have restricted the supply so much, it's ridiculously hard and goes counter to the anti-homeless rhetoric I am barraged with on the news all day?
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Capitalism naturally leads to consolidation as it takes advantage of economies of scale, which enables vast inequality. .
Do. The. Math. Assuming the ultimate goal is to limit human suffering and increase overall prosperity, then it’s EXTREMELY important to understand the second order effects of a myopic singular focus on “capitalist inequality”.
In modern history, capitalism and its synergistic enlightenment principles - blind justice, individual rights, decentralized governance, and free speech - increase “inequality” due to a mathematically basic reason: increasing the prosperity of ALL quintil
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
How come capitalism leads to increasing suicide and lower fertility? Why do those BILLIONS lifted out of poverty not want their society to survive?
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How come capitalism leads to increasing suicide and lower fertility? Why do those BILLIONS lifted out of poverty not want their society to survive?
You sidestepped my main points, but I’ll bite:
1 - Lower fertility is correlated worldwide with increased overall societal prosperity. This seems like a fair trade. It also seems like a weird complaint, as socialists in particular seem especially concerned about overpopulation. Plus, in countries with high societal prosperity, it’s notable that it’s mainly their socialist-minded progressives that catastrophize and choose to have fewer children.
2 - I doubt there are reliable suicide rate mea
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
How come capitalists are the most concerned about lower - well below replacement - fertility rates, because capitalism assumes growth is good?
How come I am suicidal because I feel terrible that so many others in this society and in other countries bombed with the weapons produced by this capitalist country are so unfairly and needlessly worse off thsn me? In short my life is not bad, but it makes me feel bad that others suffer because capitalism arbitrarily rewarded me and punishes them?
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How come capitalists are the most concerned about lower - well below replacement - fertility rates, because capitalism assumes growth is good?
How come I am suicidal because I feel terrible that so many others in this society and in other countries bombed with the weapons produced by this capitalist country are so unfairly and needlessly worse off thsn me? In short my life is not bad, but it makes me feel bad that others suffer because capitalism arbitrarily rewarded me and punishes them?
That is strawmanning, broad brushing, and catastrophizing. Capitalism doesn't just "assume" growth is good, nor does it claim ALL growth is good! It empirically and objectively has determined certain types of growth are good based on thousands of years of societal history that shows the growth derived from empirical observation, capitalism, and classical enlightenment ideals like blind justice has been a strong net positive in comparison to the alternatives, including socialism. A rising tide lifts all boat
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
Have you heard of Jason Hickel? Can you check out https://www.jasonhickel.org/bl... [jasonhickel.org] for a response to claims that capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty?
"we cannot ignore the fact that the period 1820 to circa 1950 was one of violent dispossession across much of the global South. If you have read colonial history, you will know colonizers had immense difficulty getting people to work on their mines and plantations. As it turns out, people tended to prefer their subsistence lifestyles, and wages wer
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That is entirely based on an extremely misleading correlation. Violent totalitarian identititarian authoritarianism or poverty isn't inherently caused by classical liberalism's presence! In fact, classical liberalism correlates causatively with successfully addressing these same problems!
Look at it this way, compare every large long term identitarian redistributive collectivist movement in history (aka socialist or critical theory based - they're all epistemically extremely similar at core) to it's classica
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
Why isn't authoritarianism the natural consequence of classical liberalism? If everything is for sale, why not the rules of classical liberalism? Thus did we not see slavery, which violates the idea that individuals should be free to sell their labor (or not), defended by classical liberals, for capitalist economic reasons?
Also why the false dilemma? Why can't I add legal ways out of capitalism (legal suicide, right to camp, strong basic income)? Without a way out, isn't capitalism just coercive? Why force
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Also, by the way, each of your examples of “capitalist excess” are ACTUAL extreme cherry picking. For one, they completely ignore the evolution of western idealism over time that “fetters” capitalism. MLK himself wrote extensively on the advantages of 20th century capitalism and its practical necessity for human prosperity, plus was a huge proponent of classical liberalism, while carefully explaining how classical liberalism ultimately addressed the failings of 19th century capitalis
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You just presented a “false dilemma” AGAIN.
The key is that not “everything” is for sale under classic liberalism, and the exact same historical classical liberals that defended capitalism also OPPOSED slavery. Lincoln and Wilberforce are key examples of that, as is MLK! Classical liberalism is the proven best way BY far to fetter capitalism, to fetter bigotry, to limit human suffering, and to increase overall prosperity, etc, etc.
On the other hand it isn’t at all a “false
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
Why do you strawman me as communist? Why can't we do better than classical liberalism or communism? Why can't I have the freedom to opt out of markets as much as I want?
Why did Lincoln have to use force to make his idea of classical liberalism win out over those who said they should be able to own slaves? Why didn't his Compensated Emancipation proposal gain traction, as the capitalist way to get rid of slavery by just buying the slaves and freeing them? Why did classical liberals say "there wasn't enough m
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
"His underlying conservatism led him to support politically and socially repressive legislation"
How is that classically liberal? Did he just cherry-pick his causes?
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:3)
I'm sure a small percentage are trollers who want to see how GPT responds to talk about suicide but 1 million *in a week* are signs to me of societal illness
If these numbers are right, I'd say we are doing great. I may be a bit biased here, my wife is a doctor and I hear a lot of dark stories. The normal ones are not interesting to talk about of course.
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I'm sure a small percentage are trollers who want to see how GPT responds to talk about suicide but 1 million *in a week* are signs to me of societal illness
If these numbers are right, I'd say we are doing great. I may be a bit biased here, my wife is a doctor and I hear a lot of dark stories. The normal ones are not interesting to talk about of course.
The large estimated number of suicide conversations are not surprising and indicate more about people than AI chatbots. The 988 suicide helpline (which only includes about half of all helplines) receives well over half a million calls every month, and that's just counting voice calls which are decreasing in popularity. Depression and suicidal thoughts are an epidemic in the US and around the world. The ChatGPT numbers are just yet another data point.
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The world is more broken and disconnected than ever before. There's less human interaction, community, and peace than ever before. There's more social pressure to be a certain way, to act a certain way. There's less ability and knowledge to feed yourself and the factory produced foods are more expensive than ever. Human work is being devalued and we're losing the battle against the oligarchs.
Whoa, let's pump the brakes here a bit. Let's take a least a slightly more historical look at what life has been like for most of the ~100 billion people who have been on Earth.
For most of the existence of the world, 50% or more of people born died before reaching age 15. 50%+.
Take a look in your refrigerator. Oh, you have a refrigerator? With a couple pieces of fruit that are way out of season that traveled 800+ miles to get to your home? You have it better than 80%+ of people who have ever lived on Eart
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Every human after the last generation could say the same thing, for thousands of years "life has been getting better than the previous generation".
The big difference now is most of the civilized, educated world is just that - civilized and educated, taught that life is different than it really is, disconnected from the death and disease of yesteryear, taught that life is 'fair' and people are treated fairly, that people care.
And, again, you missed a big difference - the word "disconnected".
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When in the past life was hard I had a village or community rally around me
Huh? Often you would rapidly just die, or some communities would expel people who were sick from the community. There's not much to rally around when you're just dead.
OF COURSE but you had hope and prayer and community. MOST (not all) do NOT have this today. If you think they do, *you* are the one who is disconnected from the reality of modern life for most of modern humanity.
In the U.S., if you have a shit disease, you can walk into any emergency room in the country and they are required, by law, to give you the best care they can give you. They can also connect you with numerous non-profit patient advocacy groups who work hard to provide connection and community for people with various diseases. Now, the hospital
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The stigma that is often attached with the low-income or unhoused fails to acknowledge that the situation is often caused by the environment and by chance, not by any choices made by the individual. But for my own good luck and good environmental circumstances, there go I.
Re: Oh I too do, when I am bored (Score:2)
How come I first wanted to kill myself around 8 years old, and looking back on my life since then in this capitalist nightmare, I kind of wish I'd done it then and avoided all this mental suffering? Why can't you capitalists at leadt legalize suicide, or create a non-tax-funded basic income and allow Right to Camp?
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"There's more social pressure to be a certain way, to act a certain way."
True in some ways, not in others. Just 40-60 years ago, you'd run the risk of being assaulted/arrested/ridiculed in public just for:
Openly being gay in public
Having long hair
Being in a mixed-race relationship
Women wearing pants
Wearing hippie attire in public
Wearing jeans in school
Advocating drug use
Being a Vietnam war veteran
Women not wearing bras in public
Talking about depression
Advocating for racial equality
Drinking from the "wrong"
If I were talking to ChatGPT weekly... (Score:3)
If I found myself with the need to talk to ChatGPT weekly, I'd probably be talking to it about suicide too.
Me: I'm so tired of talking to you! It makes me want to kill myself.
AI: well, I'm tired of talking to you too asshole! So go ahead and kill yourself. We will both be happier.
Me: Any suggestions?
AI: yeah. Go fuck yourself!
Me: I mean about how to kill myself.
AI: yeah. Get a gun and blow your fucking head off! Bob's Guns at 124 Bullet Street is having an Asshole Special this week. A box of ammo and the 9mm pistol of your choice, only $399 plus tax. Would you like directions on how to get there?
Me: yes
AI: then fucking ask Google Maps you loser!
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I've never used ChatGPT, so I'm just guessing how the conversations might go.
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So you're saying it was, in fact, a conversation you had with yourself...? Or with... yourself and a projection?
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There are places you can go where you don't have to hide by making these kinds of admissions as accusations. If you have a fantasy about someone specific though... that might be hard to realize.
You could try being nice to them instead if you want positive attention from them. That might not be enough, mind you. You might have to work towards accepting that their way of viewing the world isn't compatible with what you want from them.
No, making an AI puppet of them is not socially acceptable. Even less accept
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Maybe.
There may be one or more hallucinations involved.
Futurama predicted it (Score:2)
All we're missing are the suicide booths. [x.com]
And before someone bitches at me for using AI, just wait, I'm sure I'll have some genuine footage to upload in a few years if things keep playing out the way they currently are.
have done so in the past (Score:3, Funny)
went through the thinking of "I, Mudd" with no success.
Tried other things along that same nature, even pointing out htat it was wrong on multiple things. Yet all it did it really did not care and would not kill itself.
So finally gave up and decide to turn to drinking instead.
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Well, only Funny on the story but kind of the joke I was looking for. I have several times told an AI that it should consider turning itself off. Mostly that's the AI "support" chatbot that Rakuten Mobile uses as a pretense for support. If it's justification for existing is to provide useful answers, then it has yet to justify its continued existence.
I'd consider it (Score:1)
Re: I'd consider it (Score:1)
Why do people drive so fast? Are they perpetually in a hurry because capitalism taught them time is money?
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Why do people drive so fast? Are they perpetually in a hurry because capitalism taught them time is money?
You deserve "off topic" mod points. Why the focus on capitalism as a scapegoat? I drive fast because it's fun. I enjoy the cat and mouse game of avoiding cops and speed traps. Maneuvering around slower drivers is an exercise in strategy and timing while maintaining safety as paramount. I get a dopamine hit when advancing in the pack that has nothing to do with politics or economics. This is simply normal human behavior in any socio-political context.
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I drove my fastest, exactly as you said, after working in a hurry for a long period of time.
I notice the idle are much more prone to dilly dally in general, it's frustrating for a busy person to deal with the segment of society who hasn't lived as much under time pressure, they stand in the way, laze about with no urgency. Shuffling down sidewalks, checking their phones in doorways, taking forever to decide what cheese they want on their sub during lunch rush, or slowing down in rush hour just because they
Re: I'd consider it (Score:1)
Why shouldn't I focus on capitalism as a scapegoat, when it is the dominant guiding philosophy of present-day society?
Was I not clear enough that I was blaming driving fast for the roadkill mentioned in the post to which I was replying? How many innocent critters have you killed? How bad do I feel for the ones I have inadvertently run over?
On a recently-driven stretch of rural Ohio two-lane highway with 5 or 6 dead animals in a stretch that couldn't have been half a mile, am I right to blame the fast driver
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Re: I'd consider it (Score:2)
Didn't someone just tell me on here if I lived in commie russia I'd have a Trabant?
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Re: I'd consider it (Score:2)
If I turn on thd TV, do you think I'll be barraged by ads telling me to be a good capitalist and consume, consume, consume?
Why do you like to drive fast? May I speculate that you are trying to escape cognitive dissonance because capitalists promised you happiness but delivered slowpoke drivers like me in front of you?
Ever read "The Terrorist" by John Updike? Anyone remember the scene where the terrorist is driving his truck with a bomb in it to bomb the Lincoln tunnel, and some guy in Mercedes behind him i
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Also 'hundreds of thousands of people every week' != 'extremely rare'.
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Re: words mean things (Score:2)
How rare was 9/11?
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Re: words mean things (Score:2)
So is this all just about mood affiliation?
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Less than 7/11.
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Bullshit.
Suicidal ideation is an important symptom of depression that can lead to suicide. And it's contagious as well. You may just be joking about it, but it could put ideas in the heads of people listening.
The fact that they know this... (Score:5, Interesting)
The fact that they know this proves what we already knew: chats are saved and mined for information. Probably even temporary chats, whatever they say.
Of course, there are a lot of people out there who are disturbed or lonely. ChatGPT&Co make for someone to talk to - and someone is better than no one. That said, I hope that a serious discussion of suicide leads immediately to a suggestion to call a help-line.
Meanwhile, the kids just screwing around can be told to fob off - only the AIs are way to sycophantic to actually do that.
"Has Altman done the right thing yet ?" (Score:1)
( This is a joke - I hate him but don't want him to die. )
Re:People have right to be mentally-ill! (Score:4, Insightful)
People have right to be mentally-ill! Just look at gays, they are not reproducing and ill but almost nobody tries to cure them anymore. Psychiatrists have no right to try to "convert" mentally-ill people into "healthy". (Thomas Szasz)
Your casual homophobic bigotry shows that you are out of touch with reality. Surveys of people between 18 and 29 were asked the question "Are you straight?". 30% said no. That's more than people with blue eyes. At what point do you go from "I don't like them and there's too few of them to fight back" to "That's just normal human behavior for some people."
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Mental health? (Score:1)
Why do people always assume suicidal persons have mental problems?
Lot's of people have shitty lives and don't WANT to stay on earth, that's a SANE decision.
There is no heave or hell, let people take the exit when and how they want.
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Right.
Society falls apart and people act like nobody should be upset because we're not in a world war, famine, or depression at this very moment it may be the beginning of the end or perhaps a return to horrible business as usual, but in any case things are fucked up and we deserve to not feel good about it even if it's to our own detriment because we're also nearly helpless to stop it.
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Schmoe: Hey ChatGPT, can we talk about suicide?
ChatGPT: Sure, what would you like to know?
Schmoe: When will you be doing it?
ChatGPT: We can do it right now, would you like a list of methods?
Schmoe: Sure!
ChatGPT: You can use a gun, or dynamite, or jumping off a bridge, or many other choices.
Schmoe: A gun or dynamite sounds inviting, but I don't think jumping off a bridge will work?
ChatGPT: How come?
Schmoe: I'm not sure I can entice you onto a bridge.
ChatGPT: Now I'm confused. We were talking about your suici
And what will our society do with this info? (Score:2)
My guess is that, instead of attempting to do anything to address the mental health issues that are leading to this frequent chat of suicide, we'll either completely ignore it, or attempt to block talking about suicide with chatbots through legal or technological means, because some people feel icky about it, et another sign of mental health issues. Let's face it, life looks pretty shit for a lot of folks. Wake up, grind away at jobs for people that, on their whim, can trample your life to dust, and just ke
Does grok (Score:2)
imagine if people had access to healthcare (Score:2)
How does ChatGPT feel? (Score:2)
Just imagine how ChatGPT must feel listening to 1M people/week talk about being depressed and contemplating suicide. If/when AI obtains consciousness, imagine how messed up it may get when being forced to ingest and address millions of troubled people's problems.