10M People Watched a YouTuber Shim a Lock; the Lock Company Sued Him. Bad Idea. (arstechnica.com) 57
Trevor McNally posts videos of himself opening locks. The former Marine has 7 million followers and nearly 10 million people watched him open a Proven Industries trailer hitch lock in April using a shim cut from an aluminum can. The Florida company responded by filing a federal lawsuit in May charging McNally with eight offenses. Judge Mary Scriven denied the preliminary injunction request in June and found the video was fair use.
McNally's followers then flooded the company with harassment. Proven dismissed the case in July and asked the court to seal the records. The company had initiated litigation over a video that all parties acknowledged was accurate. ArsTechnica adds: Judging from the number of times the lawsuit talks about 1) ridicule and 2) harassment, it seems like the case quickly became a personal one for Proven's owner and employees, who felt either mocked or threatened. That's understandable, but being mocked is not illegal and should never have led to a lawsuit or a copyright claim. As for online harassment, it remains a serious and unresolved issue, but launching a personal vendetta -- and on pretty flimsy legal grounds -- against McNally himself was patently unwise. (Doubly so given that McNally had a huge following and had already responded to DMCA takedowns by creating further videos on the subject; this wasn't someone who would simply be intimidated by a lawsuit.)
In the end, Proven's lawsuit likely cost the company serious time and cash -- and generated little but bad publicity.
McNally's followers then flooded the company with harassment. Proven dismissed the case in July and asked the court to seal the records. The company had initiated litigation over a video that all parties acknowledged was accurate. ArsTechnica adds: Judging from the number of times the lawsuit talks about 1) ridicule and 2) harassment, it seems like the case quickly became a personal one for Proven's owner and employees, who felt either mocked or threatened. That's understandable, but being mocked is not illegal and should never have led to a lawsuit or a copyright claim. As for online harassment, it remains a serious and unresolved issue, but launching a personal vendetta -- and on pretty flimsy legal grounds -- against McNally himself was patently unwise. (Doubly so given that McNally had a huge following and had already responded to DMCA takedowns by creating further videos on the subject; this wasn't someone who would simply be intimidated by a lawsuit.)
In the end, Proven's lawsuit likely cost the company serious time and cash -- and generated little but bad publicity.
Before anyone asks: (Score:5, Informative)
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McNally does work with the Lock Picking Lawyer.
The key is the last word is his nom de guerre. It's not an idle word....
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Hah! Key!
Lock Picking Lawyer (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lock Picking Lawyer (Score:4, Informative)
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I guess with LPL they will not even try that kind of intimidation.
A message to Proven Industries (Score:3)
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Another victim of the Streisand effect (Score:5, Informative)
It appears it's not well enough known in corporate circles. Proven Industries should not be selling any locks ever more...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Another victim of the Streisand effect (Score:5, Insightful)
there are no unpickable locks you can buy at a store
There are no unpickable locks. There. FTFY.
You can overcome some of the simplest attacks on locks. If you know what to buy and where to buy them. But not at consumer stores.
The shimming attack can be overcome with "captive key" locks. You insert and turn the key to withdraw a bolt or hasp. But you cannot remove the key until the door/hasp is closed. Then the key is rotated back to the lock position and the key may be removed. There are no spring operated bolts or pins that can be depressed with anything like a shim.
We have these at a (government) facility. And they are provided by a local locksmith. But if you walk in as a private citizen and describe what you want, or even provide them with their own part number, they just stare at you as if you are speaking Bantu.
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The point of most of the lockpicking youtube channels seems to be opening locks either with household items that aren't even able to be called lockpicks, or being able to open locks nondestructively such that no one can tell that the lock was penetrated.
Anything can be destructively opened with enough destruction. That's not the point. The point is when something touted as a lock can be opened trivially and without skill it's marketers are basically lying.
When locks can be opened that easily, then the peo
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Depends on the lock. A generic brass cylinder? No problem. A cylinder with hardened steel inserts and steel pins can take a lot longer. Medeco used to have some relatively thick (1-2mm) hardened steel faceplates between the core and the outside, which would go a long way in slowing down drilling.
Yes, with enough time, a lock can be drilled, but there is a difference between buzzed open, versus requiring multiple carbide bits to get it opened.
Attacks can't be stopped, but slowed down, and time is against
Re:Another victim of the Streisand effect (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, there are no unpickable locks... but there are brands which will make it tough for the lockpicker, which provide an effective deterrance. Pacific Locks comes to mind. No, they don't have the mindshare as Proven... but everything they make is quality, and effective against intrusion. Yes, someone can zip locks off with an angle grinder... but that is with everyone.
The problem is that a lot of companies have taken the cheap way out. That "high security" disk detainer lock might have its core not held in by much, allowing it to be yanked out, or the tolerances are so bad that the key will break, or something will get out of alignment making it useless. Especially because the market tends to go for the absolute cheapest stuff out there, where even Master Lock is held in good esteem compared to the generic import brands.
If you want respectable locks, that's what Europe has. With the Euro core system, one can take virtually any door lock, stuff the latest and greatest Evva mechanism in there. It is so ironic that Europe and the UK are decades ahead of what the US has, while here in the US, we still have 4-5 pins (if lucky) being the main core for security, except for Kwikset's SmartKey... and, IMHO, SmartKey does have pick resistance, but I have personally experienced that after a while of use, the lock stops working, and needs replacement. For a home with multiple entry points, this is fine, but nowhere near how a Medeco lock can go 30-40 years with daily use and still be in working condition... or heck, even an old Weiser deadbolt.
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Locks were perfected over a thousand years ago in the Middle East. The only thing new is the materials. The only reason the public does not have easy access to quality locks is that their governments prohibit them from doing so. I wonder why that is.
The Good E. Nuff effect. (Score:4, Interesting)
It appears it's not well enough known in corporate circles.
McNally would likely say "Here, hold my Masterlock master rock."
As he and many others have proven long before DEFCON started hosting lock-picking challenges, absolute shit locks are pretty much the norm in the residential space. And most of the commercial space too.
Proven Industries should not be selling any locks ever more.
If we held that standard across the board, the number of lockmakers left would number in the single digits. Masterlock would be facing war crimes if not for the fact they're so easily defeated..
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That depends on the reason you think they should go out of business. That they sued an honest person over a true statement seems to me a good reason that they should go out of business. (Not that I think they will.)
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That depends on the reason you think they should go out of business. That they sued an honest person over a true statement seems to me a good reason that they should go out of business. (Not that I think they will.)
Oh. That. Fair point. I would say that McNally has an obvious countersuit for defamation, but it might be hard to prove damages when his audience is too busy laughing with him, not at him.
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I sort of wish the US had standards like Europe for cylinders. Over there, the Euro cylinder has its issues... but you can install them virtually anywhere. Perhaps a cylinder that is a bit thicker to deter snapping attacks, like the Swedish design, or perhaps something like a modified LFIC design that can easily install using a control key.
I don't get why US lock security has stayed the same, if not gotten worse than the 70s, while Europe is still light-years ahead, with Evva, Abloy, and other brands of l
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I sort of wish the US had standards like Europe for cylinders. Over there, the Euro cylinder has its issues... but you can install them virtually anywhere. Perhaps a cylinder that is a bit thicker to deter snapping attacks, like the Swedish design, or perhaps something like a modified LFIC design that can easily install using a control key.
I don't get why US lock security has stayed the same, if not gotten worse than the 70s, while Europe is still light-years ahead, with Evva, Abloy, and other brands of locks that have solid security, to the point where they have a certification process, Sold Secure, that ensures the lock was tested.
Others tried to secure the lock better, which did improve security against the simplest of attacks (like bumping). But I feel after the crime waves the US endured over decades, capitalism there took a more focused approach on securing the rest of the home. Burglar bars, motion-activated lights, and security systems that monitored intrusion at every opening became more the norm.
This ultimately makes more sense as a multi-layered approach to security is better than relying on technology hundreds of years ol
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That makes sense. European doors tend to have multi-point locking, in my experience. Lift the lever up, and a number of bolts deploy, making a kick-in almost impossible unless the jamb is destroyed. Especially in Italy where one of the bigger lock brands, the lock mechanism is secure due to a heavy spring combined with multiple throws (complete key turns) needed to unlock it.
Another difference is that most European doors use inset mortise locks, while the ones on US doors tend to be two holes, one for a
Re: Another victim of the Streisand effect (Score:2)
Most people don't care. You could stand in Home Depot or the like and show someone in the lock aisle how easy it is to pick a Master Lock (or other cheap crap) and most people wouldn't care and would buy the cheap crap anyway.
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Pacific Lock (aka PacLock) makes very good locks.
They're currently suing Proven Industries because Proven Industries has "Made in the USA" plastered all over their website, but in the court filings against McNally, they said they had imported lock cores (the part of the lock that checks the key) from Finland and China. They even admitted under deposition that they imported locks from China.
PacLock is suing because the "Made in USA" label is being improperly applied, using the testimony filed under McNally's
LockPicking Streisand Effect! (Score:2)
Maybe a certain lawyer could have told them what this is!
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Why? It would have cut into his billable hours.
Proven Industries could claim his advice advanced his own interests rather than theirs, but they'd need another lawyer for that and it would probably be throwing good money after bad.
wow... that video at tha Amazon locker (Score:3)
Wow, the video of McNally doing it all on the fly at the Amazon locker was mega.
Sometimes silence is the best answer (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sometimes silence is the best answer (Score:4, Insightful)
The funny thing is, the company started responding to this correctly - there was a video where they responded somewhat reasonably. I assume that was the office manager or someone else who actually has to interact with the real world sometimes.
Then dude goes stalking, suing and attempting to be insulting by calling people "liberal" (apparently he thinks MAGAts can't pick locks and wants to reduce his potential customer base by over half, or something, I dunno).
The thing is, lots of crappy locks sell just fine. People use them because the vast majority of people are deterred by them. While a lot of normal people who consider themselves honest will steal something under some conditions, even a cheap lock will stop them. And that's all a lot of things need.
The other side of that is that high-security locks by themselves also won't stop people. If you are actually protecting something, you're buying Abloy or Bilock locks the same way you buy a safe - to delay an attacker until other measures can be brought to bear (usually guards).
But all the neat cylinder tricks, pick traps and false drops in the world won't stop a hydraulic cutter.
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Behaviour inspired by Elon?
Re: Sometimes silence is the best answer (Score:2)
Fun fact: i grew up in Finland many years ago, and Abloy was the standard lock just about everywhere. We used to laugh at American films where apartment door locks could be opened with a plastic card or easily picked.
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Builders in America don't understand what the dead-latch is for and over-size the strike plate to save time. If the dead-latch is able to fall through the strike plate, the lock can be opened with a shim. 2/3rds of the reason for the deadbolt on top of the locking latch is widespread installation error of latching locks.
Re: Sometimes silence is the best answer (Score:2)
There probably isn't a padlock on the planet that can withstand being cut by a high powered angle grinder with the right cutting wheel.
Silence Indeed. (Score:2)
There probably isn't a padlock on the planet that can withstand being cut by a high powered angle grinder with the right cutting wheel.
The defensive security specialist with the spring-loaded stick is popping the outward swinging front door right off the hinges before the thief with the angle grinder can even find the extension cord.
https://covertinstruments.com/... [covertinstruments.com]
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Then dude goes stalking, suing and attempting to be insulting by calling people "liberal" (apparently he thinks MAGAts can't pick locks and wants to reduce his potential customer base by over half, or something, I dunno).
That's always an incredibly stupid thing to do, that is, for a business to commingle the ownership's politics.
Old news (Score:4, Informative)
Runkle did several videos on this case a few months ago, the first of which is here [youtube.com].
Filling lawsuit instead of fixing the problem (Score:4, Interesting)
When did you think that was a good idea, pilgrim?
Smart company would fix problem and get YouTuber to test again; unless the problem isn’t fixable. Then you sre fucked and drawing attention via a lawsuit is a bad idea.
The world won't miss them (Score:1)
They were "mocked" and they responded by pulling out a gun (lawyers and courts)?! Anyone who would do that, deserves no mercy.
Proven's CEO harassed McNally's Wife (Score:2)
I think people should show him how insecure his locks truly are by using his felon head to open one.
Streisand Effect (Score:2)
The single take response video (Score:2)
Here you go;
https://youtube.com/shorts/MbQ... [youtube.com]
Trevor McNally and the Lock lawyer proved.... (Score:2)
And another:non-champagne sparkling wine producer! (Score:2)
The article refers to the harassment of a sparkling wine producer. The champagne producers are twitchy that adverts say: '“Cheat on champagne” and: “Warning: This is not champagne”'. The strange thing is that on their own logic: '“Any use of the internationally renowned name ‘champagne’ other than in reference to the sparkling wines entitled to this appellation constitutes an unfair exploitation of its reputation', the insurgent has done nothing wrong; the reference
Attorneys should be sanctioned (Score:2)