Man Who Cryogenically Froze Late Wife Sparks Debate By Dating New Partner (bbc.com) 87
A Chinese man who cryogenically preserved his wife after her death has sparked a heated online debate after it emerged he began dating a new partner in 2020. Some argue it's natural for him to move on, while others say he's being selfish or disrespectful to both his late wife and his current partner. The BBC reports: As a sign of his devotion, Gui Junmin decided to freeze his wife Zhan Wenlian's body after she died from lung cancer in 2017, aged 49, making her China's first cryogenically preserved person. But after a November interview revealed he had been dating a different partner since 2020, Chinese social media has been torn on Mr Junmin's predicament. Whilst some asked why the 57-year-old didn't just "let go" another commenter remarked he appeared to be "most devoted to himself."
After Zhan Wenlian was given months to live by doctors, Gui Junmin decided to use cryonics - which is scientifically unproven - to preserve her body once she died. Following her death, he signed a 30-year agreement to preserve his wife's frozen body with the Shandong Yinfeng Life Science Research Institute. Since then, Zhan's body has been stored in a 2,000-litre container at the institute in a vat of -190C liquid nitrogen.
Chinese newspaper Southern Weekly revealed that although Mr Junmin lived alone for two years after the procedure, in 2020 he began dating again, despite his wife remaining in cryopreservation. He told the newspaper that a severe gout attack which left him unable to move for two days began to change his mind about the benefits of living alone. Soon after, he started seeing his current partner Wang Chunxia, although Mr Junmin suggested to the paper the love was only "utilitarian" and that she hadn't "entered" his heart.
After Zhan Wenlian was given months to live by doctors, Gui Junmin decided to use cryonics - which is scientifically unproven - to preserve her body once she died. Following her death, he signed a 30-year agreement to preserve his wife's frozen body with the Shandong Yinfeng Life Science Research Institute. Since then, Zhan's body has been stored in a 2,000-litre container at the institute in a vat of -190C liquid nitrogen.
Chinese newspaper Southern Weekly revealed that although Mr Junmin lived alone for two years after the procedure, in 2020 he began dating again, despite his wife remaining in cryopreservation. He told the newspaper that a severe gout attack which left him unable to move for two days began to change his mind about the benefits of living alone. Soon after, he started seeing his current partner Wang Chunxia, although Mr Junmin suggested to the paper the love was only "utilitarian" and that she hadn't "entered" his heart.
Seems pretty cold (Score:3, Funny)
Debate? I dunno how much debate there can be.
It seems pretty cold to me!
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Debate? I dunno how much debate there can be.
It seems pretty cold to me!
I see what you did there. Cold blooded move.
Re: Seems pretty cold (Score:1)
Not an actual case of cryocide, so what's the... (Score:2)
Mod FP funny, and if that moderation had happened sooner, then maybe the humorous opening FP would have been more productive. But I don't have another joke to add, so I'll fork (as is my tendency in most cases).
New Subject:
Not an actual case of cryocide, so what's the problem here?
Near as I can tell (without actually breaking down and reading everything) is that she died, was pronounced and certified as dead, and he didn't incinerate or bury her corpse, but chose to freeze her remains. Minor question about
Illuminating Foil (Score:1)
Of course he dated again (Score:5, Funny)
Her wife was giving him the cold shoulder.
He can move on, can't he? (Score:5, Insightful)
Cryogenics preserved his late wife's body. It did not guarantee that she could be resuscitated. I doubt she can anyway. Even if she could, how long would he have to wait for it to be possible? Would he even live long enough to see the technology created?
In short, his wife is dead. Let him get back on the market.
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Cryogenics preserved his late wife's body. It did not guarantee that she could be resuscitated. I doubt she can anyway. Even if she could, how long would he have to wait for it to be possible? Would he even live long enough to see the technology created?
In short, his wife is dead. Let him get back on the market.
This. A man’s wife passed and they both agreed to essentially donate her body to science. He wont even be alive IF they can ever reverse her condition.
Her body is the experiment. Not his life. People move on all the time. That’s life.
Re: He can move on, can't he? (Score:1)
She already died and, depending on the definition where this happened, generally means brain death before freezing. So they have to cure stage 5 lung cancer AND brain death.
Then again in California, even that doesn't necessarily count as dead. That's why drinkypoo is technically still allowed to receive TANF and SNAP.
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There's yet one more problem (among many): Cryogenic freezing doesn't prevent ice crystals from forming, shattering cell membranes.
Basically, the body is mush where it is critical for it not to be for a successful resuscitation.
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There's yet one more problem (among many): Cryogenic freezing doesn't prevent ice crystals from forming, shattering cell membranes.
I glanced through TFA. They mention that the body is infused with antifreeze, so removing that is yet a third problem to solve.
C'mon, seriously folks. The tank is a 21st century crypt, not any sort of medical devices. She's as dead as can be and not coming back.
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Even with antifreeze, attempts to thaw bodies prepared that way have resulted in massive widespread organ cracking.
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Indeed. I'd consider it much more likely if we had a process where we could freeze and revive so much as an otherwise healthy mouse. Much less a technically and realistically already dead human.
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"It did not guarantee that she could be resuscitated"
Once you die from cancer the secondaries have usually spread everywhere so until a seriously good cure for fatal cancers has been found then there's no point reviving her. Given his health I suspect he'll be long dead before that technology comes to pass.
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He's betting on becoming immortal through science, having his wife thawed, cured and brought back to life also with the immortality fix applied. But he knows that's way off in the future. I'm sure he's planning to be iced until the technology exists to make all that happen. They'll both wake up to a very different world and be happy of course because love is infinite.. But until such time as he's ready for the freezer, he needs a romantic partner to continue living his best life...
oh wait -
"a severe
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Interesting. Is he really counting on his wife's resuscitation, or is he just a widower with baggage?
I wonder whether the "utilitarian" perspective he has now will fade over time. He's being a bit of a dick right now, but if his new partner is okay with it, then I'm not sure we can argue.
WTF dating app is this guy using. Profile:
"I'm looking for a utilitarian relationship because my gout is terrible, and I want a nurse with benefits who I can do as I wish with"
I didn't see anything about his dating profile in TFA, so I assume that's your speculation.
Who cares (Score:2)
While freezing is a bizarre way to bury a corpse, this is still a corpse and there is no chance of revival, ever. The damage done by the freezing is exceptionally severe and irreversible, as there is no data on the "good" state.
Hence, who cares? Stupid people doing stupid things. This is just a stupid person with money. People with money are not smarter than average.
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To be fair, everyone would have an opinion on this issue(if they knew about it), but the long and short of it is that our opinions don't matter since we don't know the people actually involved.
No one cares. (Score:1)
This is the type of article you would find in People magazine. It's not news for nerds.
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This is the type of article you would find in People magazine. It's not news for nerds.
Indeed. And they ignored my seriously science-y submission about Hitler possibly having had a micropenis.
Re: No one cares. (Score:2, Funny)
What? Don't look at me like that. I went for the sports page !
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Cryogenic Widow Reveals the ONE TRICK He Used to Find Love Again (While His Wife is Still on Ice).
Some folks think its cold (Score:2)
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Pascal's wager.
Wait so she's dead *and* frozen? (Score:2)
How is that any different from the fish sticks in my fridge?
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Sliced? You buy up-market fish sticks. Hoi polloi have to make do with mechanically recovered meat bound with transglutaminase.
Re:Wait so she's dead *and* frozen? (Score:5, Funny)
One goes better with tartar sauce.
Although, admittedly, some people do like tartar sauce with their fish too...
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Spilled my coffee. A bit through my nose. Thank you
Kinda pointless due to cell damage (Score:2)
What's the point of freezing a body? The water in the cells freezes, expands, and ruptures the cell membrane. The body is effectively mush at that point. Does anyone really expect medical tech to get to the point that it can repair that kind of cell damage in every cell in the body?
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If the heart has stopped how do you get the anti-freeze distributed throughout the body? Do they put the person on an artificial heart for a time?
I am curious is if there is really anything to this; or if these cryo firms are just sure, "we'll take your money and freeze your loved ones corpse, and who knows maybe the future will have nearly magic nano bots that can fix the mess we are making anything is possible right?"
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If the heart has stopped how do you get the anti-freeze distributed throughout the body?/p>
Bicycle pump
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Not exactly the same thing, and I'll warn you that if you're squeamish, don't keep reading:
In preclinical pharmaceutical animal testing, there is a chemical fixation/preservation technique known as perfusion. There are a couple of ways of doing it. Common way: a mouse is put under a deep, deep, plane of anesthesia and held there. The chest is opened. A catheter of aldehyde fixative is introduced into one of the aorta's and the one of the major ventricles cut. The heart, still pumping away, pumps the fixativ
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'she hadn't "entered" his heart' (Score:2)
Okay, but - has he "entered" her... um, heart?
1 mental dwarf and 7 sleeping beauties? (Score:2)
Do I recall the tale correctly?
1 nasty dwarf and 7 sleeping beauties?
He is at his nr 2 at the moment...
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Yeah. The potential new Mrs Gui had better check out how large a freezer he bought.
Duality (Score:5, Informative)
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blame the survivor for living.
No one is blaming this survivor for living. They are blaming this guy for effectively cheating, hanging on to the body of a dead wife while moving on with a new girlfriend. The blame is about his extreme selfishness. Mourn, miss, move on if you can, but also accept to be called out as a selfish hypocrite if you do all at once.
Sorry for your loss, and fuck anyone who blamed you for living.
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If my response is what you're talking about then you did a poor job of explaining what you're talking about. Or a poor job of reading my response. Your and my point was fundamentally different.
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If a person's spouse truly wished that for them, then perhaps one should honour it. But we don't know about how their relationship was before so aren't in a position to make the decision. Is
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If his new partner is okay with Ice Lady, I see no real problem. It's their issue, stop bothering them.
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I'm not bothering anyone. I don't even know them. That doesn't mean I will agree with them or that the actions aren't hypocritical.
Cryo-embalming (Score:5, Informative)
Humans are simply too large to cryopreserve like we do embryos. The body can't freeze fast enough and so always forms ice crystals. This destroys tissues at a cellular level. Just think what happens to a strawberry you freeze then thaw. That happens inside your organs.
The technique used in cryopreservation involves replacing the blood with an antifreeze compound. The stuff is toxic and will destroy cells even if the ice doesn't get them. This is more like embalming or pickling than preserving.
The cryopreservation process has to be done after death. If you do it to a living person, it's murder. You can't reanimate a corpse, especially not one that's been pickled.
When frozen, a corpse has yet another reason it can't heal damage done to it. Temperature doesn't affect the decay of radioactive isotopes inside a body. The radioactive carbon and potassium alone would subject a body to LD50 doses of radiation inside of a decade.
Cryopreservation is about preserving a corpse as a death ritual and not a legitimate attempt to preserve a life. It should be viewed more akin to ancient Egyptian mummification than a medical procedure. And it has exactly the same chance of resulting in a reanimated corpse as following the Book of The Dead.
Re:Cryo-embalming (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a grift, taking advantage of a grieving person's desire for it not to be so final, for there to be hope of seeing their loved one again.
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That's literally what Egyptian mummification was, as well. Thus my comparison.
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When frozen, a corpse has yet another reason it can't heal damage done to it. Temperature doesn't affect the decay of radioactive isotopes inside a body. The radioactive carbon and potassium alone would subject a body to LD50 doses of radiation inside of a decade.
This one gave me pause, trying to figure out how. Found a discussion mentioning that your normal repair is turned off, so the radioactive damage over the years is cumulative, as in a single dose. However just the body's isotopes may be insuficient: "While this is true, that is not going to kill you in only 100 years. The human body only emits .01 mSv per year and it tasked ~4 Sv to give you dangerous radiation poisoning. ~(100,000x more) " ( https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi... [reddit.com] )
The googles disagree with the l
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Radiation poisoning is simply damage to the cells and DNA. Given we would need to repair every single cell in the body, I don't see how the radiation damage would be a problem, it is just an added complication. Cryogenics is simply a case of waiting for magic to catch up with reality.
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There is a Q-factor when dealing with radiation poisoning. Different radiation types have differing quality of damage. For example, gamma rays have very low quality. Human bodies aren't that dense and most gamma rays can pass right through you without even touching your atoms. It take more grays of gamma rays to cause harm than grays of beta particles. Alpha particles can effectively be stopped by your skin; if you get an alpha emitter on your skin, you can just wash it off and be fine. But if the alpha emi
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Thanks for the informative explanation, much appreciated.
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Embryos are clearly the easier case, being small and impressively good at using some sort of contextual cue system to elaborate an entire body plan from a little cell glob(including more or less graceful handling of cases like identical twins, where physical separation of the cell blob changes requirements dramatically and abruptly); but they are also the case that faces looser constraints. If an embryo manages to grow a brain t
Can't wait (Score:2)
...until the new girl trips over the freezer power line.
To be fair ... (Score:2)
"Another Cold Morning" - Transmet (Score:2)
The science fiction comic book "Transmetropolitan" covered this in issue #8 "Another Cold Morning".
It's a standalone story, that deals with being revived in the future. It's a truly heartbreaking story.
(Disclaimer: The writer - Warren Ellis - is a bit *ahem* problematic in the comics community. No shame if you decide not to support him monetarily.)
There is zero chance (Score:2, Insightful)
That any technology can revive or recover the brain of this woman.
despite his wife remaining in cryopreservation (Score:2)
I don't see the issue (Score:2)
cryonics (Score:2)
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Damn, thwarted again!
He'll be dead (Score:2)
He'll be dead before any technology exists that can even remotely come close to bringing her back. It's unlikely she survived having died and then was frozen, let alone repair the cancer AND the damage from the cancer that was severe enough to kill her.
Victor Fries (Score:2)
I don't know, but I've been told.... (Score:2)
I don't know, but I've been told
Frozen Chinese woman's pussy is mighty cold!
You can't blame... (Score:2)
You can't blame him, his dead wife is now very frigid indeed.
JoshK.
judge ye not (Score:2)
judge ye not, lest ye too be judged
Mr Junmin (Score:2)
Shouldn't that be Mr Gui?
It's interesting (Score:2)
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His new partner should understand (Score:2)
He needed someone new because his ex is too coldhearted.
There's a love triangle story here... (Score:2)
OK, first wife is frozen, that's where it starts.
Man finds 2nd wife, and they both choose to be frozen upon death.
Time passes, until such technology allows the revival of all three.
The love triangle story ensues!
I'm sure a billionaire doesn't have (Score:2)
That would never happen
Stop with the fake outrage already.