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As Windows Turns 40, Microsoft Faces an AI Backlash (theverge.com) 64

Posted by msmash from the Windows-8-deja-vu dept.
Microsoft's push to transform Windows into an "agentic OS" that allows AI agents to control PCs is drawing user backlash similar to the Windows 8 controversy, as the company marks the operating system's 40th anniversary this week, writes Tom Warren, a reporter at The Verge who has been covering Microsoft for nearly two decades. Windows chief Pavan Davuluri announced the agentic OS plans in a post on X last week and faced immediate criticism in hundreds of replies before they were locked days later.

"It's evolving into a product that's driving people to Mac and Linux," one person wrote, while another asked for a return to Windows 7's "clean UI, clean icon, a unified control panel, no bloat apps, no ads, just a pure performant OS." Davuluri later responded to software engineer Gergely Orosz, saying "we care deeply about developers" and acknowledging Microsoft has "work to do on the experience, both on the everyday usability, from inconsistent dialogs to power user experiences."

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella told the Dwarkesh Podcast that the company's business "which today is an end user tools business, will become, essentially an infrastructure business in support of agents doing work." The Recall feature already spooked users when it was initially turned on by default before Microsoft reworked it to be opt-in. Navjot Virk, corporate vice president of Windows experiences, told The Verge that "every user can use [AI agents] when they're ready. It's their choice, they decide."
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As Windows Turns 40, Microsoft Faces an AI Backlash More

As Windows Turns 40, Microsoft Faces an AI Backlash

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  • So the backlash is basically irrelevant. Even if valve can get some Linux hardware into people's hands the majority of operating system purchases for computer desktop and laptop hardware or for corporations and business and Linux does not have anything approaching active directory.

    So they can ignore any complaints. Because realistically the average user can't do anything about it..

    Meanwhile AI has the potential to replace hundreds of billions if not trillions of worth of wage labor. Remember AI is n

    • Yes, that is the obvious goal. Mr. Whipple didn't learn shit.

    • Technically, Linux has Samba 4 which does support acting as an Active Directory Domain Controller, but as I've pointed out previously, it's far from ready for production use.

      Also if you think the average windows user gives two fs about AD, then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. That's strictly for the nerds in a home lab and the enterprise. For everyone else, it's something that gets in the way. (If they even know about it in the first place.)

      As for your "potential", AI will be dismantled long bef
  • I can take a Microsoft branded laptop ouf the box and it'll spend two days crashing and installing updates. You can't do that with Linux/MacOS

    • Whatever one might think about Microsoft and it's AI push, your experience is not typical. I've set up numerous Microsoft laptops and desktops. Most work correctly out of the box. Some need updates, but when they do, it's usually a few minutes, not a few days. Blue/black screens of death are very rare these days.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by 0123456 ( 636235 )

        I just set one up for my mother-in-law. Setup worked great until Windows Update couldn't install an update and couldn't not install an update, so I had to reinstall Windows to fix it. Then I copied over all the old files and went to back it up with Clonezilla and discovered that Microsoft had turned on disk encryption by default so now I have to figure out how to turn that off because I don't want her to lose all her data at some point in the future when something breaks and expect me to figure out a way to

        • Windows installs do happen from time to time, my point was that they are not *typical*.

          Your problem here seems to be CloneZilla's lack of support for disk encryption, not necessarily with Windows itself.

          Honestly, I wouldn't recommend trying to clone a disk when installing a new version of Windows. The "cloning" process often copies garbage you don't want. Reinstalling from scratch doesn't usually take much longer than cloning (for most people) and you get a cleaner system.

          If you want to turn off disk encryp

          • The reason clonezilla can't decrypt it is because it's not Windows. Specifically, the TPM measurements of the booted system don't match. Which means the TPM will refuse to decrypt the Bitlocker master key needed to get everything else. Of course this is by design. Owner override is bad mm'kay?

            As for the "garbage" most people take that out before taking commemorative photos. :)

            • Other software besides Windows *can* decrypt BitLocker-encrypted drives. https://www.elcomsoft.com/efdd... [elcomsoft.com] Also VersaCrypt.

              By "garbage" I'm referring to registry clutter, keys that point to nothing or uninstalled software. Sometimes these can cause problems when preserved by system-cloning software.

        • Select Zorin OS instead.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Actually, getting Linux to crash is very easy. Just do some stupid things like telling the kernel it has more memory than there is. On the plus-side, even Linux _crashes_ will be reliable, while MS cannot even do that.

    • That is what every user at my workplace suffers from when they get a new pc, but worse since there's a lot of stuff added through the company portal too.

    • I can take a Microsoft branded laptop ouf the box and it'll spend two days crashing and installing updates. You can't do that with Linux/MacOS

      Funny, I built a DIY PC and installed Windows and Linux, and both run flawlessly. It's been that way since the early 90s for me. The only machine that had problems was a PC laptop school chose for me. I reconfigured it for dual boot, but the Linux WiFi drivers were crap.

      For DIY my parts are carefully chosen. It's 3rd-party drivers that are usually to blame, both for Windows and Linux. MacOS less of an issue when you don't let users plug things into slots, USB/Thunderbolt/etc., or no go.

  • In my experience (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Thursday November 20, 2025 @02:09PM (#65807655) Homepage Journal

    LLMs are not good at self-management or judgement-call making. Allowing them to be "agents" and do things on your behalf is problematic because they can get things wrong and then make things worse when they try to fix it. They are much worse about this than human agents.

    In my experience so far LLMs can generate code that "looks right", but doesn't necessarily work right. The more details there are in the requirements, the worse the LLM does. And in my experience implementing business workflow pipelines using LLMs, the LLMs are pretty good at interpreting plain English requests and translating them to something machine-parseable (like JSON or whatever), so you can then write your own code that reliably takes action, using the LLM just as a bridge between the two. But the more you ask the LLM to solve problems itself, make decisions itself, or take actions itself, the more it lets you down.

    So, I think that AI just isn't ready for what Microsoft plans to use it for. And it seems like many others agree.

    • The AI is not to solve your problems; rather, it is to solve Microsoft's problem of not having enough control over your wallet. Make no mistake, if you saved your credit card info in your web browser, the AI agent they will install will be able to use that and will purchase 'needed' 'services' for you without your input.

      (weird, CAPTCHA is nexact, but it supposed to be inexact... is AI doing this?)

    • Allowing them to be "agents" and do things on your behalf is problematic because they can get things wrong and then make things worse when they try to fix it.

      This shows you have no idea what agents are. Agents act on your behalf *under you instruction*. No they aren't self-managing or judgement making. They are task completing. Ultimately an AI agent is akin to AI how a Macro is akin to an Excel formula. You create agents to do specific things with specific criteria. And they many orders of magnitude more useful than generic LLMs.

      • Not really. Agents have no concept of instructions. They're still just LLMs, with more output methods in order to not just generate a string of tokens but perform additional actions triggered by them. There is a deep, qualitative difference to macros where you determine what actions an automation should take (and you're responsible if you mess up). The unpredictability is inherent to LLMs. The very fact that makes them seem more helpful in some cases, because you don't have to spell out every step, is inher
  • "which today is an end user tools business, will become, essentially an infrastructure business in support of agents doing work."

    It sure sounds like he's saying he doesn't want the desktop anymore. I think everyone should help them with that and drop Windows today.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      --
      I forget what 8 was for.

      It was supposed to make Windows universal on personal computers, tablets, and smartphones. One interface for all three. Apps that ran on all three. Normalize an app store that set guardrails up on what you did on your computer, and brought Microsoft revenue just like the iOS App Store does Apple.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by abulafia ( 7826 )
        That sig quote is a line from a song [youtube.com].

      • Normalize an app store that set guardrails up on what you did on your computer, and brought Microsoft revenue just like the iOS App Store does Apple.

        I bought a new Windows 11 laptop for my kid and it came locked in "S Mode" and would only install software from Microsoft. I had to jump through flaming hoops to get it turned off. How do they get away with that?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by SeaFox ( 739806 )

          Devices like that normally advertise (or at least mention it) on the product page. It's supposed to be a security feature.

          I don't have any personal experience owning a Windows S device, but I feel like I've looked at it before and simply trying to open a command prompt triggers a message about it and steers you to a setting to disable the S mode, with lots of scary language added about how if you do there is no way to put it back.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by 0123456 ( 636235 )

            Sending all your files to Microsoft is now supposed to be a security feature.

            "Security" is now a codeword for "we're going to steal all your shit for your own good, and you will pay us for it."

    • Translation: "you will own nothing, and rent everything, including continued access to your own work".
    • Not really. They likely are going to turn windows into an app that doesn't work without an internet connection and charge a subscription fee for its use. Existing control of the desktop givens them a way to capture customers and make it very difficult for them to switch to a competitor. You don't want a desktop that can compete with your main business of selling support agents

  • We need a new os that'll run windows apps without Microsoft deciding how everyone of must work.

    No fucking libraries or default bullshit. Bring back a plain, old file sysyem.

    • We need a new os that'll run windows apps without Microsoft deciding how everyone of must work.

      Rather tall order, that. ReactOS is trying. And wine & Proton run a lot of stuff.

      No fucking libraries

      That's a big part of the problem -- a lot of what makes Windows apps work isn't in the kernel, it's all the system libraries with their decades of cruft and backward compatibility that have to be re-implemented in clean-room fashion to avoid infringing MS's copyright.

      • This is why things tend to work better on Mac. Revisit 3-year-old software, and it probably won't compile. Apple's Xcode IDE will inform you of about three deprecated frameworks and their "modern" replacements, which you must now rewrite your code for.

        Annoying as it is, it sure cuts down on the cruft. :-)
        • It also makes your OS unusable for many who don't want to shell out for a new app every three years. Or developers who don't want to spend thousands of billable hours rewriting their code just for what would be a quick no payment security update on any other platform.

    • I get your frustration, but I'm having trouble following your proposal.

      If you're on Windows, Windows (Microsoft) decides how everything works.
      If you're on Mac, Apple decides how everything works.
      If you're on Linux, the Linux OS decides how everything works.

      What is a plain-old file system, exactly?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Touvan ( 868256 )

      Any given Linux with Wine is basically that. It's really gotten quite good!

  • And while Microsoft is at it - how about they quit making security nightmares of THEIR "AI".... That's why it SUCKS! There is little to NO security around ANYONE's AI.

    https://www.windowslatest.com/... [windowslatest.com]

    https://arstechnica.com/securi... [arstechnica.com]

    • Now remember that the IRS is on ( or will eventually be on) Windows 11.
      Your tax records for the world to see!

  • and have a standard instead of making users test them, they would get less hate.

  • They want Microsoft to leave them alone (Score:3)

    by AcidFnTonic ( 791034 ) on Thursday November 20, 2025 @03:05PM (#65807835) Homepage

    All they want is Microsoft to leave them alone and let them get professional work done.

    All the clamoring for 7 is just that. Give us a clean working os free of cruft.

    Microsofts answer, you just need more cruft. Oh and do it while saying DEVELOPERS!

    • Windows 2000 (workstation and server) was the best version that I worked with. Anything after that was only downhill and even 2000 had plenty to complain of.

      A completely blank desktop (currently openbox on Devuan) is the only one that I like. Give me a bare-bones OS with network connection and everything else as opt-in.

  • The Recall feature already spooked users when it was initially turned on by default before Microsoft reworked it to be opt-in. Navjot Virk, corporate vice president of Windows experiences, told The Verge that "every user can use [AI agents] when they're ready. It's their choice, they decide."

    That's what apple said about theirs, then Tim Cook and ArchieBunker became furious after learning that nobody wanted it, so they made it opt-out.

  • Recall This (Score:3)

    by Spinlock_1977 ( 777598 ) <Spinlock_1977@yahoo . c om> on Thursday November 20, 2025 @03:30PM (#65807913) Journal

    I'm a developer with 4x years of experience. Windows has been my desktop operating system since DOS 3.0 days, and have no desire to move off of Windows 10. I didn't, that is, until now. There's no way I'm letting Windows 11 into my personal life, so I got the free 1-year security extension, I'll buy another if I can, and then, if that AI Recall spyware is still on Windows, I'm leaving. Probably to Linux.

    • I abandoned MS_Windows when XP was released, I dual booted with Win2k for a while, then eventually pure straight Linux 100%, I did not do a lot of distro hopping but I tried a few, not as many distros back then as their is now, I eventually settled on Slackware

    • There's no way I'm letting Windows 11 into my personal life, so I got the free 1-year security extension, I'll buy another if I can, and then, if that AI Recall spyware is still on Windows, I'm leaving. Probably to Linux.

      If you are a developer, why exactly are you waiting? Linux can likely do everything you need now faster, easier, and without MS looking over your shoulder at everything you do.

      I defenestrated MS about 4 months ago, and havn't looked back.

      • Developer here with almost the same amount of experience as the other guy.

        The problem with Linux is that although it is very good as an operating system, it is still trash as a desktop. As a developer I need a good desktop to work on, where things just work and all applications work consistently. Copying and pasting, for example, should not behave differently in each application you use as happen in Linux desktop.

        And then there's the serious problem of fragmentation. If I had to migrate to Linux perma

      • Good question. I'm delaying because I also write music, and my music software isn't available on Linux. I suspect others are in my position, having that one app that isn't available and it's data file incompatible with any completing products. I'm locked in :-(

  • ... it will be stuff nobody wants them to do. LLMs are seriously incapable of delivering secure and reliable agent functionality at this time and for many years to come. Maybe we can revisit that idea in 10 or 20 years. But now? Pure madness.

    • Sure. But even if the agent can do things you would want it to, the problem starts in giving unambiguous specifications... which most people are incapable of. I've never had a client that could articulately describe what they wanted*, no matter their education level. In fact interviewing experts might be harder because they often use rules of thumb or other non obvious intuition which can be even harder to pry out of someone, because they might not even know themselves why the rule works. Ironic, really.

      Thi

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        And that is an additional problem that may invalidate the whole idea long-term. Agreed.

    • Maybe we can revisit that idea in 10 or 20 years.

      Climb in your time machine and go back 30 years or so and look up General Magic. They had ambitions of developing an ecosystem where their device could be a self-directing agent on the owner's behalf - scouring the network (wasn't really The Internet quite yet) and find things, like concert tickets and restaurant reservations, and book them for you.

      It was way too early for such ambitious ideas.

      (Don't comment that I don't know what I'm talking about. I was there - collaborating with Marc Porat - in

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        And your point is? Yes, an LLM can to this. Insecurely, unreliably and not always. That is impressive as a research result. That is not what a practicably useful system looks like.

        If you were part of that historical project, you apparently did not understand what real-world requirements for such a system are. May explain that failure if you were important enough.

        Incidentally, I had my first Internet access almost 10 years before (via Sprynet, which was Compuserve, but gave you real Internet access). And yes

  • Paywalled (Score:3)

    by Stormwatch ( 703920 ) <rodrigogirao.hotmail@com> on Thursday November 20, 2025 @05:11PM (#65808313) Homepage

    Paywalled article, go here to read it: https://archive.is/4qzDM [archive.is]

  • Satya Nadella told the Dwarkesh Podcast that the company's business "which today is an end user tools business, will become, essentially an infrastructure business in support of agents doing work."

    Microsoft keeps providing less and less satisfaction to its users. Soon it will provide nothing that pleases them, so I think its CEO should be renamed Satya el Nada. That's only a one-letter difference in total, but it's so much more fittingly descriptive.

    • He's been good for shareholders but that too is about to change. I think MSFT is gonna fare the coming storm worse than it did for the .com bubble which was also a hard time for the company.
      It'll be good for consumers because a suffering microsoft is a well behaved microsoft.

  • Because it determined by itself that there was high probability that Nadella needed more money than I did.
    Be careful as you sign all your rights away in the M$ EULA.

  • "It's evolving into a product that's driving people to Mac and Linux," one person wrote

    I'd say that Windows has largely evolved into a service, not a product. It seems the end game is for Windows to be mere terminal software which won't allow your computer to do much of anything if it's not connected to MS servers. Everything old is new again...

  • They actually suck at, and have always sucked at, consumer technology. The only reason Windows became dominant was because of IBM's mistake and that everyone could license the always mediocre OS relatively cheaply. It was never because the OS was best at anything. Granted, it did become the best for gaming, every other way that Windows is best is either part of its Achilles heal (people wanting their crappy old software to be immortal on Windows) which is mainly what makes Windows insecure, the fact that so

  • They keep wanting to turn the OS into a bunch of non-optional, deeply-integrated, unremoveable, application-layer talkie assistants.

    It's been the same for decades - Active Desktop, the little paperclips and wizards, etc. Microsoft Bob infected them and they're still trying to make it happen.

    If Windows was an OS, and Copilot was an optional app that you could download for free or buy, and which any similar AI assistant could plug into your OS in the same way (e.g. so you could choose Gemini or ChatGPT to he

  • I use Windows as my daily driver (it is what works best for me and I came from Linux) and AI is a big distraction for them. The CEO has become obsessed with AI and how them not being leader threatens the whole company and is pushing AI where it doesn't want to be and where nobody wants it.

    Eroding Windows and Office with AI slop is a much, much larger threat to actual business model than OpenAI, et al. will ever be. Microsoft is fortunate that they have the opportunity to go backwards (with a few new things

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