Denmark Posts Its Last Letters as Hallowed National Mail Ends

Denmark's postal service, established by King Christian IV four centuries ago as one of Europe's first modern mail systems, will stop delivering letters on December 30, ending a tradition that once saw riders given a maximum of 45 minutes to cover each 10-kilometer stretch of routes running from Hamburg to Norway.

PostNord, the postal service Denmark has shared with Sweden since 2009, started removing its 1,500 remaining red post boxes in June; a handful will go to museums. Letter volumes collapsed from nearly 1.5 billion in 2000 to 110 million last year. A standard stamp now costs 29 Danish kroner ($4.52). A private logistics firm called DAO will take over letter delivery. PostNord will continue handling parcels. The decision has rattled postal services elsewhere in Europe. Deutsche Post in Germany, still delivering 61 million letters daily, has warned it faces the same trends.

Reduction

[JBMcB]

I'd say keep letter delivery, but cut it to once a week. Have a smaller workforce cycle through the routes. Do bulk mail once a month.

Re:Reduction

[b0s0z0ku]

I say keep letter delivery since it's incidental to parcels anyway and mostly needs the same infrastructure ... plus, it keeps people employed. I'm actually very much FOR New Deal style government jobs programs, even if they're "make work." Pure crapitalisim is overrated.

Re:

[noshellswill]

Bet classical Egypt had a ( Nile-based ) postal service ... Tigress/Euphrates cultures certainly did. In the USA New Deal government-jobs were a model of efficiency for their time. Sadly government services  have  NOT become more efficient/responsive/effective. Still, something to be said for  easily communicating with another human W/O using electricity. Extra points for hand-writing  with  real ink on real parchment. Do I trust FedEX? Hahahaha...

Re:

[anoncoward69]

Keeping people employed just because is probably the reason the USPS is having the issues it already has. Cutting the workforce and cutting every other day of delivery could make a HUGE impact to their bottom line. Likely the same mail trucks could carry and deliver two days of mail every other day without needing to put more trucks on the road.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

And yet, we squander over a trillion per year sending our military thugs all over the world, buying them gold plated toys, and on abusive domestic lawn forcement and mass incarceration. USPS is a drop in the bucket. Fuck austerity.

Re:

[anoncoward69]

Let the postal workers join the military if they need a job

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

Yeah, and risk their bodies for Big Oil? Or perhaps risk their good names following orders to commit war crimes? Fuck the US military ... anyone with half a brain should stay far away from that band of filth and vermin. War is a racket. Let's create good jobs, not more murderers and thugs.

Re: Reduction

[drinkypoo]

We don't need more military. In fact we need less.

The reason for the existence of the second amendment was to not need a standing militia. We DEFINITELY don't need both things.

Obligatory

[ChunderDownunder]

Get off my lawn!

Re:Reduction

[tlhIngan]

Keeping people employed just because is probably the reason the USPS is having the issues it already has. Cutting the workforce and cutting every other day of delivery could make a HUGE impact to their bottom line. Likely the same mail trucks could carry and deliver two days of mail every other day without needing to put more trucks on the road.

No, the USPS is having to fully fund pensions for people not born yet is what's causing the problems. If you look at the profitability graph it nosedives around year 2000 or so purely because Bush Jr and the GOP were trying to kill it by forcing it to fully fund pensions for the next 75 years or so, which includes funding pensions for people not born nor employed by the USPS.

Most companies aren't doing this which means if they go under, there goes all the pension funds. USPS pensions being fully funded means those people keep their funds when USPS goes under.

It's basically been a way to kill the USPS without killing the USPS directly.

Before this ruling came out, the USPS was really quite profitable, and those profits could've been used to fund the pensions until the obligation was met rather than force them to pay for pensions fully by going into debt.

Not anymore

[pavon]

They are no longer required to fully fund pensions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[BoogieChile]

There's a few other reasons, just FYI -> https://ips-dc.org/how-congres... [ips-dc.org]

Re:Reduction

[anoncoward69]

Bulk mail should just go away. It's a garbage delivery service.

Re:

[thegarbz]

Because you only have people send you garbage? Bulk mail is a form of communication. The way it is used varies. That you are using it poorly doesn't mean it should go away.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

Fuck FedEx ... nothing wrong with socialized public services, 'ya neoliberal austerity twit. Efficiency is boring.

Re:Now do USPS

[fahrbot-bot]

Now do USPS.

Paper mail is a waste of time except when it isn't, and for those times pay for FexEx!

Noting that UPS and FedEx don't have to deliver to every address, USPS does.

Also, the Postal Service is in The Constitution, Postal Clause [wikipedia.org].

Also, some myths debunked: Let’s Get to The Truth: Myths and Facts about Postal Privatization [apwu.org]

Physical addresses vs. mailing addresses

[virtig01]

Noting that UPS and FedEx don't have to deliver to every address, USPS does.

USPS delivers to every mailing address, but not to every physical address. USPS has been using cluster mailboxes as a cost-saving mechanism for some time. There are also "Group E" PO Boxes, which the USPS provides (without charge) to those physical addresses to which it will not deliver.

In other words, the Universal Service Obligation is satisfied by having a "drive here and pickup your mail" policy. I expect a private company would offer the same.

Re: Physical addresses vs. mailing addresses

[drinkypoo]

The USPS is also pretty crap about it. They regularly just don't bother to add new addresses to their databases for months or sometimes even years. At work we're having to use an alternate address for a multi story residence with dozens of units because of this. It's really quite irritating. Their address validation system is also shit. They will tell you for example that an address has an invalid secondary (unit number type, e.g. suite/apartment/whatever) but then won't tell you what the correct one is eve

Re:

[drn8]

Living in a rural Hawaii town USPS neither delivered mail to my physical address, nor provided free P.O. Boxes. I had to pay for my P.O. Box, and when I first moved in I actually had to get on a waiting list for a paid P.O. Box to be available for me to rent. I had my mail delivered to a neighbor's box until my name came up and I was able to get one for myself.

Re:

[cfulmer]

Never going to happen. The junk mail lobby has too much influence in Congress, and Congress gets free use of the postal service for "constituent communications" (aka electioneering).

Re:Now do USPS

[slacktide]

Why? I ship a lot. It's almost always faster and cheaper to ship by USPS than UPS or FEDEX. For-profit services are always worse quality that government services. They have to be, in order to make a profit.

Re:

[thegarbz]

"Worse" is a matter of specification. Worse in what regard? There's no reason it needs to be specific to all metrics, it can be to just some. E.g. cost, speed, care, coverage. Objectively all private systems are worse in coverage due to a legal obligation to deliver to all postal addresses. That doesn't mean that someone else can't turn a profit while meeting the other three requirements.

Where I live the local post office is slower and the same price as DHL - a for profit service.

Re:

[anoncoward69]

USPS should just go the package delivery route. Almost no one sends snail mail anymore these days, it's all ads that just go straight into the trash. USPS should do package delivery daily, 1st class letter delivery once per week and an express letter delivery tier for letters that absolutely must get delivered before the next weekly delivery, they can go on the truck with the packages.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

If they're delivering the packages, why not just deliver letters along with them? Basically same infrastructure.

Re:

[anoncoward69]

Because delivering letters means they basically have to do a full route and basically roll by each house even if there is no letter to deliver or pickup. Just doing packages means you only target those getting a package. Potentially less miles driven and less man hours used.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

If there's no letter to deliver, they don't need to do a full route, unless picking up mail in the box is also a service.

Re:

[anoncoward69]

As things exist with the USPS today im pretty sure they roll past each house on every delivery day even if there is no mail to deliver. As far as I know the mail is just sorted in the boxes in order that they will pass the house on delivery day so they just do their route and pluck the next item out of the box, they also have to roll past each house to look for mail boxes with flags up that there is outgoing mail waiting for pickup.

Re:Now do USPS

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm not rooting for it ... this is why I love Poland and prefer it to the US. It kept the best aspects of socialism. The national railway or one of the local successor companies runs trains to virtually every city of 50k people or more, as well as may smaller places. Generally, decently fact, clean electric trains. Public schools and certain higher ed are publicly run and of fairly uniform, if not of top-notch quality. National healthy system. Anyone working on the equivalent of a US W2 is enrolled by default and employers pay ~9% of income for employees getting insurance with very low deductibles ... none of this annual minimum or HSA nonsense like in the US. Feels much like the US and UK in pre-enshittification days, and it's absolutely glorious.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

The problem is that the alternative to government ends up being Snow Crash style corporate authoritarianism. I prefer having a society that's fairly egalitarian ,,, Poland has a much lower GINI than the US or even Western Europe. It's great,

Re:

[roman_mir]

right, they modded me troll decade and a half ago here when I said the nations will fall apart, governments will fail, libertarian ideas will take hold. They are modding me troll today, yet it is exactly what is happening. It is possible that people are actually afraid that my comments will cause ot to jappen somehow should more people read them. My comments are not the reason anything happens, that is magical thinking by the fearful moderators. My comments are a prediction and the reality is moving in

Re:

[MikeS2k]

I would never mod you as troll simply because your belief system sucks, it's a real shame that others on here do. After all you do have the right to say it!
The UK has privatized a lot of its national services and in basically all cases, the quality has shot right down.

This is not an improvement, and the thing is even if you were wealthy enough that you don't care about the proles as you can buy your own services - a lot of the times there are no better services. E.G. Royal Mail - the UK Government sold off

Re:

[pipegeek]

USPS does parcel delivery for half the cost of UPS and FedEx, and can go to more places. Why on earth would we get rid of such a good system?

Re:

[whitroth]

Screw you. I want my mail. As it is, they've raised the raites for an office that's IN THE CONSTITUTION too much. Meanwhile, looked at mailing rates for private cos? Basic minimum priority mail vs. FedEx equivalent - USPS was $11 last time I used it, while FedEx is $15 or $20. And going up whenever the CEO wants more ROI.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

Also, what's the functional difference between a letter and a small parcel? Could you drop off a parcel-shaped letter at the post office, with the only difference being that it's not being put into an outdoor post box?

Re:

[bugs2squash]

Money I should imagine - a small parcel would likely cost the sender more, maybe have more content scrutiny

Re:

[itsme1234]

Better question is if you can drop a letter-shaped parcel to some post but not actually post-office and have it delivered to someone (ideally still to the post box, but it'll be the letter-shaped-parcels box I guess). And if you can how's that different from a regular letter, except that it's handled by that company.

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

Bulk it up a bit, stick it in a bubble wrap flexi-pack?

Re: infrastructure remains

[madsh]

Letters can be pdf and delivered digitally. Small packages not so much.

USPS should be once a week for most places

[schwit1]

Also put a trashcan next to community mailboxes to recycle junk mail.

Rural locations could have residents pick up their own mail at the PO.

Force government agencies to use comm methods other than USPS.

Re:

[wyHunter]

Rural locations mostly do have residents pick up their own mail at the PO if you're within a certain number of miles of said PO - 5? 10?

Re:

[Buchenskjoll]

As for Dernmark we haven't had post offices for a decade. People send/pick up parcels at supermarkets or gas stations. Letters could be sent from our red mail boxes, that are now going away.

Re:

[wyHunter]

It's a great way to keep people from communicating with being spied on.

Re:

[sysrammer]

So now I have to mail a letter in a parcel? That's kind of a waste of space, isn't it?

We'll send USPS to the grave
We'll send USPS to the grave
I hope that someone gets my
I hope that someone gets my
I hope that someone gets my letter in a parcel yeah
Letter in a parcel, yeah
- apologies to The Police

Hope this also reduces use of wet signatures

[gilgongo]

As somebody who has had to deal with a lot of bureaucracy recently, I sure hope some organisations revise their insistance on sending you a paper document to physically sign and send back to them.

Re:

[Buchenskjoll]

In Denmark most signing is handled with our national identity service MitId. I signed my car loan that way a few months ago, and got divorced that way 15 years ago.

Re:

[thegarbz]

As long as you cover all options then sure. I am all for signing PDFs on a touch screen or via digital signature. My mother, not so much.

Everything old is new again?

[magusxxx]

A friend told me how mall used to be delivered here back in the 1960's:

"A huge truck would drop a postal worker off at each block. Then the truck would circle around to the where they'd drop the first carrier off and wait. The carrier would go down the block, cross the street, and then go back up to meet the truck. On heavy volume times, like Christmas, there would be two workers doing the same block. One would have a trolly cart for packages that needed to go to the post office. After those workers were al

enshitification existed long before the word

[Tom]

My grandparents and parents sometimes talked about how mail used to work.

Delivery within the same city within a few hours. The mailman would come to your house several times during the same day. Every day.

Telephones changed that. With phones, if something is urgent but not so urgent you go yourself, you can make a call. So the demand for same-day-delivery disappeared. Visiting each house only once means a mailman can cover more houses in the same amount of hours.

Privatizing mail delivery is an astonishingly

Re:

[Buchenskjoll]

Official documents in Denmark are sent via e-boks - a digital mail box. I haven't received paper mail from the state/municipality in 10 years.

Re:

[Tom]

Yes, this stuff is moving digital as well. At different speeds in different countries.

Re:

[Carewolf]

Privatizing mail delivery is an astonishingly stupid idea, given that what is left in physical mail delivery is often important, official documents.

No shit. We raised the price to $5 per letter, and now no one is writing any letters....

Re:

[groobly]

Mail delivery was twice a day in big cities. There were also pneumatic tubes in places like Wall Street for rapid delivery of documents. But that was before mailmen had to earn $300k in salary and benefits.

Re:

[Tom]

Seems to depend on location. In my home city in Europe, it was 3-4 times a day, even shortly after the war.

But that was before mailmen had to earn $300k in salary and benefits.

Numbers mean nothing once enough inflation is involved. But back in those same days, a mailman could support a family on his salary. Not a luxury life for sure, but enough to rent a place and put food on the table. Women working was still a somewhat new thing.

Haha.

[groobly]

It's going to be fun and games when their internet is broken for weeks, maybe due to Russian sabotage.