Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
IT Linux

HDMI Forum Continues To Block HDMI 2.1 For Linux, Valve Says (heise.de) 127

New submitter emangwiro shares a report: The HDMI Forum, responsible for the HDMI specification, continues to stonewall open source. Valve's Steam Machine theoretically supports HDMI 2.1, but the mini-PC is software-limited to HDMI 2.0. As a result, more than 60 frames per second at 4K resolution are only possible with limitations. In a statement to Ars Technica, a Valve spokesperson confirmed that HDMI 2.1 support is "still a work-in-progress on the software side." "We've been working on trying to unblock things there."

The Steam Machine uses an AMD Ryzen APU with a Radeon graphics unit. Valve strictly adheres to open-source drivers, but the HDMI Forum is unwilling to disclose the 2.1 specification. According to Valve, they have validated the HDMI 2.1 hardware under Windows to ensure basic functionality.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

HDMI Forum Continues To Block HDMI 2.1 For Linux, Valve Says

Comments Filter:
  • Sherman act? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by coats ( 1068 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @01:01PM (#65848907) Homepage
    This needs an anti-trust lawsuit.
    • It's called a suit becuase it needs a heap of lawyers.
  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @01:02PM (#65848913) Homepage
    Well, let's see, before HDMI, we had DVI, which worked for both analog and digital, and we had displayport which works. The problem is: the MPA has money and therefor political clout. Oddly, most of the ports on my RTX 4070 are DVI: "1x HDMI 2.1, 3x DisplayPort 1.4a"
    • ...that's not DVI, that's DisplayPort.

      DVI is the prequel to HDMI, that single HDMI port on your GPU is also putting out DVI signalling at the lower bitrates. It's also how the various RP2350 "HDMI" boards work, is the DVI protocol is a very simple subset that the early generations of HDMI was built on top of with additional data structures.

    • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @02:41PM (#65849231) Homepage Journal

      I used to certify HDMI equipment, and the standards for HDMI were always there to protect IP rights even if it made the devices less reliable and harder to use. End-users just know that sometimes when they bought a new Blu-ray player or settop streamer that it didn't want to work at full resolution with their TV or their A/V switch or the various incompatibilities that exist between revisions.

      • On "IP rights": what's to stop me from renting a video, and then just pointing my 4K camera at it to record while playing? Assuming I have a tripod, and can get the ratio close enough, can't I make bootleg videos that way? Sure, it's more work, but it's probably less hassle than futzing with HDMI adapters, and such.
        • Go ahead, there's an analog hole and for the most part the industry doesn't care. With your described setup, you're likely to have a great deal of color loss as the gamut of the screen and your camera are not well matched.

          The goal of HDCP is to make it inconvenient for a typical user to make a high quality copy of a video or stream (like pay-per-view sports streaming tends to want higher levels of content protection). Stopping all possible avenues of copying media is not the goal of DCP (Digital Content Pro

    • The problem is: the MPA has money and therefor political clout.

      Y'know, back in the day of $30 BluRay movies, I could see why the MPA would fight tooth and nail to encrypt HDMI to prevent piracy.

      Color me skeptical that's nearly as important as it used to be. When's the last time you bought a BluRay? Since the vast majority of video watching is streaming now, there's so much less incentive to rip and re-distribute movies. Bigger problems are probably people sharing accounts or using VPNs to circumvent geographic restrictions.

      Same thing seems to have happened to music. Si

    • DRM has nothing to do with it. DisplayPort also has DRM (the same DRM: HDCP) but doesn't have the same restrictions. It's pure licensing bullshit for certain features.

      Also what ports you have on your GPU isn't relevant. The only question is what ports you have on your TV, and I'm guessing it's not DisplayPort as HDMI has a feature set specific to your living room that gives it some significant staying power.

    • Given that the vast majority of users can't actually see 4K, does it matter? Not being allowed to support a resolution people can't distinguish seems to be a non-problem.
  • DisplayPort has been better than HDMI at everything since it began. Why fixate on proprietary shit?
    • Re:why HDMI? (Score:5, Informative)

      by BeepBoopBeep ( 7930446 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @01:40PM (#65849031)
      Its a steam machine, aint no TV have display port.
    • Because consumers keep buying HDMI, even though it sucks.

    • Everything? Displayport supports sending CEC remote codes between devices? It offers eARC for receivers and speakers? No DisplayPort has provided higher resolution and bandwidth for display. That's it. There's far more to these protocols than simply electrical signalling and the DisplayPort spec lacks some features that are virtually essential in the living room now.

      There's a reason no TVs use display port.

  • Of everything uses displayport, hdmi will die off. Consoles are the main driver, so the steam machine going displayport will create a massive incentive for TVs to use displayport. Displayport to HDMI can be bundled with the machine.
    • by flink ( 18449 )

      Steam is such a tiny player in the handheld/console space, I doubt it will move the needle for most TV manufacturers. Certainly Sony would be in no rush to make things easier for them.

    • Or hear me out here. It's a computer and already includes both DisplayPort and HDMI ports.

      It supports CEC over HDMI making it function like a console allowing TV and audio systems to be powered on/off and input switching.

      But you could just use DisplayPort if that's your thing.

    • TVs won't use DP as DP lacks many features that are essential to AV systems. E.g. eARC or CDC.

      DP -> HDMI can't implement the full feature set (including no VRR meaning display tearing) and introduces latency, precisely the opposite of what you want on gaming console.

  • by organgtool ( 966989 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @01:57PM (#65849089)
    At this point, I think I'm over HDMI. While I haven't used any devices with DisplayPort, I'm inclined to switch to it with the purchase of my next monitor. For computing, I have a lot of issues with HDMI and I'm suspicious of HDCP being the culprit. Also, the latest versions of DisplayPort almost always have superior bandwidth compared to the latest versions of HDMI.

    For home theater, I hate the fact that HDMI couples audio and video together. I understand why other people like that, but for people with advanced setups this is an enormous pain in the ass. If my AV receiver doesn't support the latest HDMI video features, then my only option is to connect the device to the TV and use eARC to send the signal to the receiver. But depending on my TV, certain audio formats aren't supported via eARC. With HDMI, every damned component in the signal chain has to to choose whether or not to support (and pay the requisite licensing fees) for all of the many features offered by the latest versions of HDMI. If I had the option of using separate digital outputs for video and audio, this wouldn't be as much of a problem. I know I'm in a small group of people affected by this, but coupled with the other issues regarding HDMI I'm considering minimizing its use in my house.
    • You just too cheap to upgrade your reciever, 4k video/audio codecs havent changed in over a decade. 4K Dolby Vision/TrueHD Audio are so old now, which means, just buy a modern receiver. Aint no one want 2 cables.
      • You just too cheap to upgrade your reciever

        This post may be a troll, but I'll respond in the event that you're serious. At the time that I bought the Playstation 5, it came with HDMI 2.1 which was recently released and I had just purchased a television that supported HDMI 2.1 as well. However, there were no AV receivers for about a year after that which supported HDMI 2.1, let alone contained all of the sonic qualities and other features that I wanted. And that brand new TV didn't support several Dolby

        • I ran into this same issue, only when using eARC my sound bar had some of buffer overflow issue that would cause an audio dropout every five minutes or so.

          It took about 10 months, but HDMI audio extractors finally came out. That have the single cable from the console and outputs the full signal to the TV, and just the audio to the second output.

          The audio EDID flags are pulled from the audio side.

          The extractor wants you to connect to the eARC port which I'm not doing. So I lose CEC signals so my TV remote ca

    • For home theater, I hate the fact that HDMI couples audio and video together.

      It is literally the selling feature for home theatre. Most people hated the fact that early HDMI *didn't* do it. Either you hate it for incompatibilities with your specific equipment or you heat it for reasons that separate you from most of the rest of the AV world.

  • by RUs1729 ( 10049396 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @02:43PM (#65849251)
    Nothing like artificially constraining people's options to guarantee that piracy will thrive. Is it that they can't learn, or that they won't learn?
    • by ukoda ( 537183 )
      It is they won't learn. They have someone telling them what they want to hear, so won't listen to people who are saying what they don't want to hear. Wishful thinking make life so much easier than facing reality.
    • Hope springs eternal that "the next big thing" will keep people from recording stuff, and provide a one-way direct link to customers' wallets. Meanwhile, I just posted here, https://linux.slashdot.org/com... [slashdot.org], and until Sony makes a camera that won't record a video on a TV screen, anyone can make a bootleg at any time, if they try hard enough.
    • This has literally nothing to do with piracy or DRM which literally did not change in the slightest between the 2.0 and 2.1 spec, but ... sure whatever you say.

  • Hardware designers should switch to the much more capable Display Port.

    • by ukoda ( 537183 )
      Won't happen, companies don't like bad feedback and products returns. The best option is to have both Display Port and HDMI ports. People who understand the difference can then use the Display Port. Remember a typical consumer has a TV with a spare HDMI port and a HDMI cable so they expect to plug that cable into a HDMI port on the new device they brought. When they can't they return product to the store and write a scathing review about how the product didn't work.

      Asking people to learn about Displa
  • by malvcr ( 2932649 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @03:22PM (#65849387)

    What this says to me is that the future must be something open and not HDMI.

    Anyway, HDMI is not a forever technology ... soon or later something better will take that place. To stay with a technology controlled by "some" is not a good idea.

    • by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      >> soon or later something better will take that place.

      I am under the impression that Displayport already did.

      • You'd be wrong. There are many features in HDMI that have no equivalent in DP which are virtually essential in the modern AV setup, things like eARC or CDC passthrough.

        DP is by far superior on an electrical signalling perspective. But the best tech means nothing if you're unable to use it effectively. At the end of the day, features win out and consumers won't be interested in replacing a couple of HDMI cables for a shitton of separate AV cables.

        Actually I don't think there's actually a way to properly impl

  • Can't Europe (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kwerle ( 39371 ) <kurt@CircleW.org> on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @04:49PM (#65849657) Homepage Journal

    Can't Europe solve this for us? I expect this kind of crap in the US, but Europe tends to lean a little more toward consumers than copyright holders, right?

    I wonder if pursuing this in Europe would be more fruitful than doing it here.

    • Can't Europe solve this for us? I expect this kind of crap in the US, but Europe tends to lean a little more toward consumers than copyright holders, right?

      I wonder if pursuing this in Europe would be more fruitful than doing it here.

      I'm not sure what you think Europe is, but it is in no way illegal to have a closed spec over here. Never has been. Hell I remind you the Germans were instrumental in the development of MP3. Look how well the open source community did with that spec, a default Linux install didn't ship with an MP3 decoder for 2 decades.

      This is a licensing issue, nothing more nothing less. Europe isn't a magical place where everything is forced to be open source. It's a magical place where cheese tastes good.

      • But they could require a DP input on TVs. Once you can expect people to have TVs with a DP input, it'd start to become sensible for devices with HDMI outputs to add a DP output and drop the HDMI one. The EU could do that without touching HDMI's licensing at all.

        • But they could require a DP input on TVs. Once you can expect people to have TVs with a DP input, it'd start to become sensible for devices with HDMI outputs to add a DP output and drop the HDMI one. The EU could do that without touching HDMI's licensing at all.

          Two questions:
          1. Why would the EU mandate a specific standard on TVs? What is the basis? The USB-C mandate was directly linked to e-waste recovery whereas that isn't a problem here. Do you think they care that a couple of gamers can't get a Steamcube working at 61 FPS?
          2. Law of unintended consequences, do you realise how many things you've just broken for consumers? Suddenly consumers are left wondering why their TV remote passthrough doesn't work on some of their inputs, or why audio return isn't possible?

    • The time has come for a European University CSE department group to reverse-engineer HDMI 2.1 and publish a compatible implementation on Github.

      There's a solid history of this category of work going back 30 years.

      They have certain legal protections for compatibility and public interest work.

      This 1990's licensing model is antiquated and obsolete.

      IEEE and ITU have abdicated their responsibility so sombody like Valve needs to do for transport spec what AV1 did for codecs and linux did for operating systems.

      "A

  • Done with HDMI (Score:4, Insightful)

    by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @05:01PM (#65849683)

    I will be actively seeking out DisplayPort-compatible devices for all future A/V purchases, and will recommend the same for anyone who asks. I have just become a DisplayPort evangelist.

    • Re:Done with HDMI (Score:4, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @07:48PM (#65850007)

      I will be actively seeking out DisplayPort-compatible devices for all future A/V purchases, and will recommend the same for anyone who asks. I have just become a DisplayPort evangelist.

      So you're not going to get any new A/V purchases? The reason DisplayPort is virtually non-existent is that it lacks a chunk of livingroom specific features. E.g. eARC, CEC-Passthrough, those are all things you need in your TV to communicate correctly with receivers, speakers, and bluray players (If you're a physical media kinda gal) There's no Displayport alternative. In fact without HDMI it's not possible to route Dolby TrueHD, Atmos, or DTS:X to a receiver as the alternate audio connections don't have the bandwidth for it which would limit your sound options, and that's before you consider the point of ARC in the first place, without it you're back to a million cables between your pieces of equipment and reaching for the remote to change audio and video channels independently.

      Displayport is superior for anything video related. But there's a reason it borderline doesn't exist in the A/V world.

      • So you're not going to get any new A/V purchases?

        If necessary, then yes. I don't see that as a problem. I will also make it know to the sales people that lack of DisplayPort is why I am refusing to buy their stuff.

        • Well companies aren't not going to screw up existing compatibility and features just to get one fussy customer. Dp has a long way to go before it becomes viable in the living room, but for that to happen they need to care, ... and they don't. Dp is wholly focused on everything but the living room. Even the future spec is focused on simply chaining multiple displays with more bandwidth rather than implementing feature sets that make it a viable alternative in the living room.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @05:55PM (#65849791)

    ... give a little ground on the opensource drivers.

    Valve strictly adheres to open-source drivers, but the HDMI Forum is unwilling to disclose the 2.1 specification. According to Valve, they have validated the HDMI 2.1 hardware under Windows to ensure basic functionality.

    In my experience, some Linux systems still need binary drivers for stuff like WiFi or cellular. Just hold your nose while you download the Windows driver and load it with NDISWrapper.

    • They could just leave that up to consumers. If it's anything like their approach to the Steamdeck then they will release an open and incredibly tweakable platform which the user themselves has root access to do with as they please. I predict that a binary blob driver will be available for HDMI2.1 support on the week of release, just not one provided by Valve themselves.

  • Congratulations on making the HDMI interface even more irrelevant compared to Displayport.

  • My understanding is that if you want to make a HDMI device you need to pay a license fee (covering patents and etc) and that the HDMI people can and will use you if you use HDMI without paying.

    And if they control IP rights that allow them to force everyone to pay up, why would this stuff (which isn't even the full spec, just the bits bring done in the driver rather than the firmware or hardware) bring open cause a problem?

    • you also have to keep the implementation closed. Both AMD and Valve are willing to pay the license so that is not the issue, the issue is only that the HDMI Forum refuses to bless AMD:s open source 2.1 driver, which AMD wrote back in 2024.
      • My point is, why does the HDMI licencing mob care if the implementation is open or closed given that they will.get there royalty (or penalties from a court for companies that don't pay) for every port anyway?

  • by thogard ( 43403 ) on Wednesday December 10, 2025 @10:16PM (#65850169) Homepage

    Maybe someone could start an IETF RFC for communications protocol for digital video over local wire and fiber that is open.

    • It's not a question of other standards bodies. It's a question of capability. The best standard in the world doesn't mean shit if my TV, AV receiver or sound bar doesn't have the input for it. Standards are dime a dozen, and everyone here is already mentioning alternatives, completely forgetting about why they haven't been implemented: living room specific feature sets. There's a reason the same company that produces monitors with display ports produces TVs with HDMI, and it has nothing to do with wanting t

  • The proper headline would be "AMD made a very bad choice, and Valve suffers because they choose AMD".

    AMD (unlike Nvidia and Intel) choose to not include the protocol enumeration in their firmware (which they apparently plan to do moving forward (they learned the lesson), which required them to do it in software. They knew they would need to make the protocol public, which the license and NDA they signed did not allow. They did try to convince the HDMI forum to let them publish the protocol, which the H

  • ...back when we had the story about Steam releasing a console. It didn't make any sense to me why a new device would only support HDMI 2.0, now I know why. Idiotic licensing.
  • How can that even be legal under competition law? To me that looks like a classic cartel.

    https://competition-policy.ec.... [europa.eu]

Why do we want intelligent terminals when there are so many stupid users?

Working...