US Threatens Penalties Against European Tech Firms Amid Regulatory Fight (nytimes.com) 112
U.S. officials excoriated the European Union for discriminating against American technology companies and threatened to penalize European tech companies in return, in a social media post on Tuesday. From a report: The pronouncement appeared to signal a rockier period for U.S.-E.U. trade relations, as the two governments work to finalize a trade framework they announced this year. The United States has been pushing Europe to open up its tech sector to American firms. But U.S. officials have complained that the European Union has not walked back broader regulation of company business practices while also proceeding with investigations of major American tech firms like Google, X, Amazon and Meta.
In a social media post, the Office of the United States Trade Representative, which has carried out the negotiations, said that the European Union and some member states had "persisted in a continuing course of discriminatory and harassing lawsuits, taxes, fines and directives" against American companies.
The United States had raised concerns with the European Union about these issues for years "without meaningful engagement," all while allowing European companies to operate freely in the United States, it said. If the European Union continues these policies, the United States would "have no choice but to begin using every tool at its disposal to counter these unreasonable measures," the U.S.T.R. said. It named fees and restrictions on service companies among the possibilities, and said it would use the same approach against other countries that echoed Europe's strategy.
The post singled out potential European service providers that could be targeted by name, listing Accenture, DHL, Mistral, SAP, Siemens and Spotify, among others.
In a social media post, the Office of the United States Trade Representative, which has carried out the negotiations, said that the European Union and some member states had "persisted in a continuing course of discriminatory and harassing lawsuits, taxes, fines and directives" against American companies.
The United States had raised concerns with the European Union about these issues for years "without meaningful engagement," all while allowing European companies to operate freely in the United States, it said. If the European Union continues these policies, the United States would "have no choice but to begin using every tool at its disposal to counter these unreasonable measures," the U.S.T.R. said. It named fees and restrictions on service companies among the possibilities, and said it would use the same approach against other countries that echoed Europe's strategy.
The post singled out potential European service providers that could be targeted by name, listing Accenture, DHL, Mistral, SAP, Siemens and Spotify, among others.
Re:Seems fair (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, it would be nice if the US believed in things like fairness, privacy and law.
That said, I'll happily watch spotify get fucked to pieces.
Re:Seems fair (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump and his supporters only claim to support law enforcement when they aren't the ones being investigated/prosecuted for crimes. Trump is a criminal and with recent activities, shows the current US government is a rogue state.
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Right? Who is the US not threatening these days?
Re:Seems fair (Score:4, Informative)
Trump even attacks US citizens these days, so it's NOT good.
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They also only claim to support a free/fair market (unless your company is based somewhere other than the US).
Re:Seems fair (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost like US companies have problems operating lawfully or ethically.
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Don't worry, most aren't. A large majority of business are run by reasonable people, so when you show them that they're breaking the law, they simply change their behavior to comply, thereby avoiding any fines.
These are very easy fines to avoid. If you, personally, were in their shoes, you would find that you'd have to go to a lot of extra trouble to get into trouble. Only the very stupidest/stubborn laughingstocks are ever going to have to p
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A large majority of business are run by reasonable people, so when you show them that they're breaking the law, they simply change their behavior to comply, thereby avoiding any fines.
Apple seems to fit the 'coz I don't want to' category.
Or else (Score:3, Funny)
The tariffs rise to ONE BILLION percent!
Republicans could hold a vote tomorrow and shut this tariff bullshit down immediately.
Remember when world trade was boring and everything just kind of worked? Pepperidge Farms remembers... Everyone remembers the pool scene from Caddyshack. Except now the world is the pool and there's an orange turd floating.
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Everyone remembers the pool scene from Caddyshack. Except now the world is the pool and there's an orange turd floating.
This reality won't have quite as happy of an ending as that scene. Our turd won't end up being a chocolate bar.
Oh, no... (Score:2)
The EU should outright ban US social media. (Score:5, Interesting)
They are used as a destabilisation tool in Europe for the profit of fascists. I don't even understand why they don't ban them and put a red notice on the arse of their CEO ? Russia Today was outright banned in the EU. The responsibles for Radio Television Libre des Milles Collines were not fined, but jailed for life. That's where Elon belongs: In jail.
It would also make the repulsive people who invest in those companies lose money, which would be a good thing.
Fortunately, the Europeans understand much better now the US will not protect them when NATO will be attacked so i don't think that lever is that strong now. And that the morals of a child rapist are exactly what they should have expected.
Re: The EU should outright ban US social media. (Score:2)
The only firewalls being built at the moment are the protection rackets that trumpistan is erecting around the putin commie pederation to protect the latter from the consequences of their unsuccessful "little" war in Ukraine and the reason the old paedophile is doing it is the ruzzkie money that bailed the failed orange shit-faced moron from poverty.
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Yes, I agree. I wish Canada would follow some of the EU rules and guidelines too.
And all non-US countries and organizations need to reduce their dependence on US tech as much as possible. That means no Google, Amazon, Microsoft or Apple, which practically means we all need to move to Linux and local data centres. It will be expensive as ****, but not to do so is a national security risk now that the US has become a threat to western democracy.
Re: The EU should outright ban US social media. (Score:2)
TBF the US was always such a threat, and it was obvious. It was always insane for other nations to use Microsoft products. They have been a US defense contractor all along. It's especially insane though since five eyes was established, because all of the member nations knew for sure that Microsoft was involved.
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"Free Speech" from the MAGA "If you don't think sunshine came out of Charlie Kirk's ass you're losing your job" crowd. From the SLAPP "BBC hurt Trump's reputation" as if his reputation is even capable of sinking lower than it already is. From the "Let's ban LGBT books" campaign led by Republicans who inevitably subsequently get arrested for possessing CSAM or diddling minors.
HILARIOUS.
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Russia Today (actually just RT) should not have been banned. It was also effectively banned in the US by being deplatformed. (a) They sometimes reported real things that were suppressed in the West, and (b) I find it useful to know what propaganda the Russians are pushing.
Re: The EU should outright ban US social media. (Score:1)
Buy local (Score:2)
Re:Buy local (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called giving people the freedom to use whatever they want to use, as long as the "whatever they want to use" isn't breaking the laws that are put in place to protect consumers.
Re:Buy local (Score:5, Interesting)
if there is an option?
Is there such an option? Barely a day goes by without some US VC bankrolled tech bro buying yet another EU company. Hell have you seen Google's share price right now? They are riding the high of an AI boom. It's a good time to remind everyone that 100% of Google's AI efforts and their entire AI division is built almost exclusively out of the acquisition of a European company (actually 3 European companies), with most of the AI development efforts still focused in the UK.
There's no such thing as "local" in the tech industry anymore. The world is multinational and some companies have gotten big enough that they literally gobble up any innovator they can find. Heck is the iPhone even American? By all accounts it's a device with a CPU developed on tech from a UK company that can't even charge its own battery without tech from a Germany company, and sure as heck wouldn't be able to put anything on a display without Korean tech, all built thanks to the ingenuity of the Dutch showing the world how to make cutting edge microprocessors.
You can't so much as download a French email client for iOS without finding out it was bought by Google and subsequently killed (sorry for all the French people who used Sparrow because it was "local").
By the way the story of the day recently is that an American former spin-off of IBM has just bought a Dutch company which managed cloud infrastructure for DigiD, which means an entire country now can't log into their own government services (all 100% locally developed at the time), without the American firm Kyndryl sitting in between.
Buying local isn't as easy as you think.
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You can't so much as download a French email client for iOS without finding out it was bought by Google
So, play the TikTok card. French email clients to be owned by the French. Or crazy punitive laws will be passed.
What's good for the goose ...
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While I generally agree, this kind of protectionism doesn't really work well in the modern world.
Arbitrary borders are bullshit. Instead we should treat all companies like companies, without qualifier of where they are from. We should treat all mergers through the lens of global competition. And to the point that Trump doesn't like to hear, we should treat every company equally under law, regardless of which yellow haired orange shitstain of a borderline inhuman being is threating another country.
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No problem, just don't expect free access to the US market if you are going to restrict access to European market.
Well, because... (Score:3)
"European Union has not walked back broader regulation of company business practices while also proceeding with investigations of major American tech firms like Google, X, Amazon and Meta....
There FTFY
Have you tried not breaking the law? (Score:3)
I mean is GDPR / DSA / DMA that bad? In the absolute worst case nobody is forcing you to do business in the EU.
Facebook, Apple, Google, et al., can just do what other (much smaller) companies do and block access to their sites from the EU. I see it when I'm in the EU and perusing news articles from home. Sometimes I click on one link and I'm blocked because they don't want to follow EU rules.
The same can be said for the fact nobody is forcing Apple or Google to sell phones in the EU. Amazon isn't being forced to sell goods to people in the UK or EU.
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Payback (Score:2)
Elon should just have blocked X in the EU.
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Yep, that would be nice. These social networks are a cancer.
Re: Have you tried not breaking the law? (Score:2)
Objectively, all twats that I've seen from the fat apartheid fuck on his twatter account are lies, disinformation or fantasies.
E.g.
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Â
Apr 25, 2022
I hope that even my worst critics remain on Twitter, because that is what free speech means
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/1... [cnbc.com]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/m... [forbes.com]
https://futurism.com/twitter-s... [futurism.com]
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I mean does he, or do you, think that Chinese companies shouldn't be subject to American law when doing business in the America?
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There is no question they are subject to local laws, but they go far beyond their local jurisdiction and determine their fines based on global revenue. The more comparable analogy is if China made revenue of 1 / 100th of their business in America and America decided 100% of the business has to follow American law and 100% of that business get used for fines. It's completely unfair.
Try to move the goalpost, nice. You are saying the US is being unfair at that point because we fine (all) companies using the same logic as the EU.
Try again?
Again the simplest solution is for him to withdraw Twitter from the EU if he doesn't want to follow the rules.
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What do they expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
That we'll simply allow the USA to shaft us with all of these companies which are basically monopolies?
- Microsoft (Windows)
- Apple (App Store)
- Google (advertising, Android, Chrome)
- Amazon (AWS)
- OpenAI (illegally vacuuming up paid content without permission)
These monopolies deserve to be hit with regulations and, upon non-compliance, be fined. There is exactly one EU company which is a monopoly (ASML), and even that company is facing competition. All the rest need to catch up to the USA companies. Now, the EU is not playing favorites for EU companies, it's just that most tech monopolies are in the USA.
The EU is doing what the USA should have done a loooooong time ago. And now the USA is complaining because its government was basically bought by those 5 companies and/or the billionaires owning them.
Real statesmanship on display. (Score:2)
What are you gonna do? threaten to dissolve NATO and impose tariffs?
Law of the Land (Score:1)
Think of the plutocrats! (Score:1)
You're all being played. Simple regulatory protections that apply to every single company doing business in the EU are being framed as anti-American, and you're all falling for it.
What do you do when your country is in internal turmoil? You conjure up an external threat, and use it to divert your population's attention away from the fact that your own house is not in order. It's an age-old playbook.
Take your heads out of your collective asses, and recognize that there's much more that unites the EU and the
Iâ(TM)ve said it before (Score:2)
I said it on here a while ago, and I will say it again: rip the bandaid off. The US is going to punish the EU either way, they already are. This is just more abusive tactics by Stinky McBubbaBeej. Tell the US to stuff it
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You really should engage in some self reflection.
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
"No the EU should act like vassal state that it is"
The US is rapidly leaving its first world status behind. Not surprised you can't see this given where your head is stuck.
Re: Not enough (Score:2)
Ok coward. Pay my way including my USA former resident slave tax.
Re: Not enough (Score:2)
You don't make anywhere near enough to have to pay US income taxes if you live overseas. You still have to file, but if that bothers you then just renounce your citizenship. Problem solved, no need to complain anymore. Your net worth isn't anywhere near high enough to have to pay the 30% exit tax. I think you'll be much happier that way, and you'll be in good company with countless others who share the same view of the United States as you do.
The question is, why wouldn't you do it?
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LOL. Okay, time for your meds and off to bed with your little boy.
Re: Not enough (Score:2)
The US is trying really hard to let China take its place as Europe's first ally these days! Do you also think that big US tech companies are entitled to European citizens buying their products? What about Chinese companies, are they entitled to US citizens buying their products? I hope we agree that double standards are bad.
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Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't. They apply the same laws to _anybody_ that does business in the EU. Kind of like US law applies to _anybody_ doing business in the US. But I guess that idea is to complex for you.
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
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That is unfortunately in progress. The EU parliament is shifting right/far right. Eu laws about ecological transition are being amended; That might be a bad sign. Also the far right parties are anti-EU and for sale. Russia buys.
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American tech companies are only getting investigated and fined because they continue to think that EU laws and regulations don't apply to their operations in the EU. American companies operating in the EU that comply don't have the problem.
If the EU can fine or threaten to fine US companies for ridiculous reasons like the Power Jack on iPhones, it only follows that tit for tat is perfectly acceptable.
As EU people have said in if you don't want to follow our rules, don't sell or send your stuff here. What would you want to?
Waiting for the yeah buts, rotting to claim that it is only right when teh EU does this sort of thing.
Re: Not enough (Score:3, Interesting)
Taking legal action to protect customers and reduce waste is anything but ridiculous. Any real country that wants to be taken seriously should do those things.
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America is just threatening a shakedown. There is noting similar about it.
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Informative)
Note that the US has, multiple times, extradited people from the UK in order to try them in the US, for actions done in the UK - simply because they breached US laws and somewhere in the chain there was a US connection.
The US loves fining foreign companies as well, including major banks like HSBC, for breaching US law.
The US has also confiscated transactions between two Europeans who carried out a transaction in two countries outside the US, simply because they breached the US embargo on Cuba and the transaction was done across the SWIFT network.
In other words, the US loves to do what it complains about here.
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Note that the US has, multiple times, extradited people from the UK in order to try them in the US, for actions done in the UK - simply because they breached US laws and somewhere in the chain there was a US connection.
Not the best example. The UK-US extradition treaty has a "dual criminality" clause, meaning that the extradited individuals also breached UK law.
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It is a good example, because its someone who was never in the US being charged, tried and jailed in the US for an alleged crime against a British company.
Dual criminality means that the act that they are being extradited for is also an offence under UK law. It does NOT mean that they actually broke UK law. And in the case I am thinking of, they were never prosecuted in the UK. Thge UK-US extradition act is also severely lopsided, with a firm case having to be presented to extradite from the US, but only
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Indeed. They think the law essentially does not apply to them. Of course that is not acceptable at all.
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Haha. The whole point of many EU laws has been to screw US companies.
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The EU-laws are bad - immoral. You can't motivate a law with its own existence. C.f. laws against homosexual acts and sodomy. You are philosophically shallow.
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of course you'd sacrifice 80 years of American soft power dominance for your fragile little conservative feelings.
"I'm something of a fucking idiot myself"
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Re: Not enough (Score:3)
Trump is the same kind of conservative as the rest of the Republicans, i.e. not actually interested in conserving or preserving anything but his own privilege.
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Yep, fake "conservatives" all around.
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Have US tech companies considered following the laws in the countries in which they wish to operate?
Re:Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
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Providing privacy means smaller profits.
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Never underestimate how difficult it is to ensure privacy when your entire business model is exclusively dependent on not doing so.
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Re:Not enough (Score:4, Insightful)
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Even European companies are fined the same way if they brake the same laws
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You're mistaken. 1) The reason the fines are calculated on global revenue is because those companies started developing legal tricks to avoid having revenues in particular places when it's not convenient; calculating fines or even taxes on the global amount is the right way to calculate them; it does not mean the fines are big or small, it only means it is calculated on a more reliable total number. 2) The reason the fines are potentially enormous is NOT that they are calculated on the global revenue; the r
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Re: Not enough (Score:2)
EU companies are subject to the same laws, the difference is that they act like it.
If these companies don't want to obey the laws they can pull out like your father should have
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Will you be alllowed to enter the US with a boat full of bananas, then just start sellling them on the street, and then disappear? I guess not!
You'd be better to shup about other countries if the world's trading systems are too complicated to grasp.
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The Administrator needs to unambiguously tell the EU, stop DSA actions against US tech companies or there will be negative consequences for the NATO umbrella.
You're right we should allow business to abuse monopoly positions, infringe on privacy and not give a damn about the negative social impacts. Oh and funnel money into tax havens. /s
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Hey, clueless...
1. They are separate countries, not US states.
2. They have their own laws, and if US companies want to operate there, they have to follow THEIR laws.
3. They're fed up with no right to repair, and the probability (not "possibliity" that US companies have kills switches. You know, the way John Deere shut down the tractors that the Russians stole from Ukraine? Like Demented Dozy Don got all upset with the INTERNATIONAL Criminal Court, and had M$ shut down all their online operations/