EU Moves To Ease 2035 Ban On Internal Combustion Cars (apnews.com) 152
The EU is moving to soften its planned 2035 ban on internal combustion cars by allowing a small share of low-emission engines. "The less stringent limit would leave room for automakers to continue selling some plug-in hybrids, which have both electric and internal combustion engines and can use the combustion engine to recharge the battery without the need to find a charging station," reports the Associated Press. From the report: The proposal from the EU's executive commission would change provisions of 2023 legislation requiring average emissions in new cars to equal zero, or a 100% reduction from 2021 levels. The new proposal would require a 90% emissions reduction. That means in practical terms that most cars would be battery-only but would leave room for some cars with internal combustion engines.
Automakers would have to compensate for the added emissions by using European steel produced by methods that emit less carbon, and through use of climate neutral e-fuels made from renewable electricity and captured carbon dioxide and biofuels made from plants. EU officials say changing the limit will not affect progress toward making the 27-country bloc's economy climate neutral by 2050. That means producing only as much carbon dioxide as can be absorbed by forests and oceans or by abatement methods such as storing it underground. CO2 is the primary greenhouse gas blamed by scientists for climate change.
Automakers would have to compensate for the added emissions by using European steel produced by methods that emit less carbon, and through use of climate neutral e-fuels made from renewable electricity and captured carbon dioxide and biofuels made from plants. EU officials say changing the limit will not affect progress toward making the 27-country bloc's economy climate neutral by 2050. That means producing only as much carbon dioxide as can be absorbed by forests and oceans or by abatement methods such as storing it underground. CO2 is the primary greenhouse gas blamed by scientists for climate change.
Called it - Politicians backing off (Score:5, Insightful)
I've said before that the upcoming bans were more aspirational than effective, placed far enough in the future that when things didn't go as rosy as predicted (which itself should be predictable), that they'd modify them.
Examples include:
1. Expanding the qualifying vehicles, like including HEVs in the same category as EVs
2. Pushing deadlines back
3. Lowering percentages.
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The way it works is that there are limits on fleet emissions. A certain proportion of cars sold must be zero emission, and the fossil ones must have average emissions below a certain level.
Even with this change, the great majority of cars sold will have to be EVs.
Re:Called it - Politicians backing off (Score:5, Insightful)
We really still haven't had that major battery tech breakthrough that allows for $25,000 EV's with over 300 miles of range that can meet EU crash and safety standards... yet. I'd imagine that China is closer to the goal than most, though.
Until then, we really don't have mass market alternative that makes all ICE vehicles obsolete for lower income nations.
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We don't need 300 miles of range in the EU. My country has 101201 public charging stations on its 138065 square miles and I guess most people with cars drive less than 20 miles per day.
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When you're travelling long distances, you only need to deal with charging on the road two or three times a year. And for me, it's actually entertainment - driving all day is boring, so at least I get to choose where to charge next.
On long trips abroad, EVs need to charge about three times more often, but you just plug in, go to the restroom or restaurant, and then unplug. With a petrol car, you stand at a smelly pump for five-plus minutes filling the tank, and then stand in a queue to pay. Yes, I've hea
Must not be in the USA (Score:2)
I don't remember the last time I visited a gas station in the United States that didn't have pay at the pump available. I'm sure there are some janky stations out there, but not many.
Plus, at least in the USA, refueling one of our 300 mile ranged EVs is only maybe 50% more often than a gasoline vehicle - you don't want to go under 10% in a gasoline vehicle anyways, but while full is not a problem with ICE, with an EV you probably want to stick to around 80% most of the time to avoid the charging slowdown (
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Saying that EVs charge only about 50% more than ICE cars is a big stretch.
On a road trip in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, the optimal strategy for minimizing total travel time is to charge only about 50 percent of the battery (for example, from 10 percent to 60 percent), because charging speed slows down significantly after that. At highway speeds of 130 km/h (80 mph), the spacing between Superchargers works out to roughly 200 km. Gasoline cars commonly have a range of about 800 km today, and some can even
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Sounds like a pain in the ass to me.
It's really not.
In practice what you do is you use the car's navigation system, and it tells you if you need to charge to get to your destination. About the only manual planning I do on road trips is to think about where we'll be for meals and override the automatic charger selection to pick chargers in those places, and check the icons on the charge station to make sure there's food nearby. This is a minor annoyance, far more than offset by the fact that when I'm not on a road trip I never have to go t
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In practice what you do is you use the car's navigation system, and it tells you if you need to charge to get to your destination.
"and picks your charging stops", I should have added. On long trips it optimizes to minimize charging time, which typically translates to 2-3 hours of driving, then a 20-minute stop, then 2-3 hours of driving, repeat. The charging stops tend to align pretty well with bio-break needs.
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We do. 25-30 days of paid vacation, sick leave for as long as necessary, not too much overtime.
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For which we pay with much lower take home pay, hilarious queues for doctor in most places
Most of my coworkers have to go out of county for even fairly basic medical care because there isn't anything available here and wait times can be into the months. I had referrals for over a year that I never even got a call back on. It's not clear why you think that the USA has functional medical care, but in many cases and places it very much does not.
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You are not an European, you are a russian bot. Therefore your "we" is a lie.
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And due to time it takes to charge, the moment there's any increased traffic on those, you're waiting hours to start your charging.
We're not even going to mention the scourge of electric charging, "this charger is currently not available, please use another".
Something you'd know if you had to charge an EV without having home charging.
Re: Called it - Politicians backing off (Score:2)
I bought a Chevy Equinox EV for $27,649 out the door in August. With 319 miles of range. Including the now defunct $7500 EV tax credit.
I believe it would likely pass European crash tests.
However, I think Chinese EVs likely cost a lot less than $25k, even with 300 miles of range.
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It would not. European standards are to maximize low speed impact pedestrian safety, US are to maximize high speed impact vehicle occupant safety.
These are often mutually exclusive. For example we are mandated to have really soft vehicle bonnets that crumple on impact with human skull. Such bonnets offer little to no protection to vehicle occupants in a high speed frontal impact.
US cars tend to have thick steel bonnets with crumple zones, designed to absorb energy in a frontal impact. These will have a much
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Cupra Raval / ID.Polo / Skoda Epiq sounds pretty much like one. I'm lined up to buy one next year, unless they have screwed up really badly somehow.
Adding another point (Score:2, Offtopic)
The EU and Nato countries are gearing up their military for possible future conflicts and having to rely on not portable electric power sources to power military vehicles, trucks and cars is a military disadvantage.
A tanker truck of gasoline can be delivered nearly anywhere and well beyond any place with substantial electrical grid connections (plus when the grid is destroyed...).
That is for any military vehicle and not just heavy trucks, tanks and troop carriers.
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No military of consequence is going to shift to purely electric vehicles any time soon because of refueling times alone, but in number of roles an EV has an advantage because it's quiet and reliable. If you can deliver a tanker truck, then you can deliver a generator.
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[...]and through use of climate neutral e-fuels made from renewable electricity and captured carbon dioxide and biofuels made from plants.
If this can be ramped up rapidly, it will be just as good as electric vehicles. Electricity in Europe is still about 30% fossil fuel generated.
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4. The fucking new car price.
Just in case we forgot why new car sales are sucking hind tit, with lots FULL of unsold inventory at COVID prices. My local Ford dealer is so overstocked they turned the dealership inbound road into a one-way street. Because they had new cars lining the road on both sides.
Don’t even get me started on EV depreciation that makes a Maserati look like a 20-year old gold investment. Say it with me kids. Negative Equity. You’ll be hearing that a lot after the 84-mont
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Bans are just paperwork posturing and only serve to rile up anti-EV folks. The real work is building out battery production and developing advanced battery chemistries. Everything else is relatively easy.
How relatively easy will it be for citizens to afford that $80K EV?
Can’t sell them for shit today without government subsidies. Manufacturers seriously struggle to make them at even a minor profit. Battery replacement costs are mind-numbing, and will be a real problem after that eighty-four month loan is paid off, and you need another 48-month loan for the new battery. Especially buying used EVs, where crushing depreciation finally enables Joe Sixpack to afford one.
Someone is going to pay for all t
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I've said before that the upcoming bans were more aspirational than effective, placed far enough in the future that when things didn't go as rosy as predicted (which itself should be predictable), that they'd modify them.
Examples include:
1. Expanding the qualifying vehicles, like including HEVs in the same category as EVs
2. Pushing deadlines back
3. Lowering percentages.
You're not exactly nostradamus here.
This is exactly how politics work.
1. Make attention grabbing policy.
2. Bask in attention.
3. Slowly roll it back to what the policy should have been but would have grabbed fewer headlines.
This is not something that is exclusive to the EU but they are experts at doing it. This is why you should never fly off the handle at a mere policy announcement, not that logic and reason will dissuade the frothing hordes one iota. Anyone with an ounce of understanding of the
Meanwhile, in the US... (Score:4, Funny)
Don't worry. By 2035, Dear Leader will have abolished all of those "WOKE" hybrids and the smaller "LEFTIST" economical petrol cars. We'll be cruising around on land yachts... the BEST land yachts... better than SAD little cars the shithole countries of the world use. And they'll be powered by beautiful CLEAN COAL; with our very own black gangs shoveling it into the REAL GOOD fireboxes that CROOKED HILLARY banned for NO REASON except that she's a NASTY woman who full of HATE and she wants to spite the REAL Americans.
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Some countries are using a zero-sum mechanism where subsidies the EV are taken from a fund replenished by a new sales tax on the most polluting ICEs.
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NO company is profitably recycling the batteries.
It does not matter if it's unprofitable as a standalone activity. It will remain unprofitable for as long as the raw products remain available from the ground. It still should be made compulsory to have batteries recycled, and the cost for that is a part made part of using EV technology (through purchase price).
The same argument also applies to your proposal for synthetic fuels. It's unprofitable to synthetise fuels from algae as long as we can just pump fuel from the ground. Still we should do it. Every li
Re:Meanwhile, in the US... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, just as soon as the taxpayers stop subsidizing petroleum companies. I'm okay with that solution. Let's see what the market decides when the government isn't gifting free land in protected wildlife areas and cleaning up abandoned wells and waging wars to protect oil interests in the middle east. Let's go.
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Ah yes, let's ignore a huge part of the last half-century's history and pretend that prior conflicts don't translate into current detente. The ongoing size and strength of the US military contributes to the relative stability in the region because it is well understood that disruption could lead to intervention.
Oil prices are low and stable because of constant, unending, ever-threatened intervention by the USA.
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Lol... no, it's definitely about oil. Since the end of the Cold War; aside from the oil, literally the only reason for us to go on foreign misadventures in that entire region at all is the Suez Canal. And protecting just the canal would cost a fraction of the money we burn over there. Of course, with Putin's determination to rekindle the Cold War... or even go hot... once his cockholster in the White House is gone, we and Russia will probably make the same mistakes and prop up our traditional pawns on th
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Re: Meanwhile, in the US... (Score:2)
The market is so good at deciding that it gave us global warming, the ozone layer hole, dirty air, dirty water, a mental health crisis, a crazy over-communicating society and people needing three jobs to make ends meet. Thank you market forces!
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Didn't Trump just praise Japan's kei cars?
Re: Meanwhile, in the US... (Score:2, Funny)
Trump will be making the announcement on Wednesday that by 2035, walking will be totally banned in America. Only cars and mobility scooters are allowed.
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With his age, weight, and diet*; by all rights he should already be dead. Never mind the fact that he has denied wearing makeup** in the past, which adds cirrhosis or hepatitis to the mix as well. I'm think he must have injected some stem cells from Jackie Chan, Keith Richards, or a Florida cockroach. So I'm not betting on an early exit.
* Not to mention the stress of the job. Look at before & after every pictures of every other president. That job ages people something like two years for every one
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Woke is so 2021. (Score:2)
We're getting closer to the truth though, DEI is just a few steps from admitting that the reason they really don't like them is because they're not white and not male.
Infrastructure issue (Score:2)
Putting pressure only on the automakers was a bad idea. Force every parking lot to have chargers, and every fuel station to have fast chargers, problem solved.
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Putting pressure only on the automakers was a bad idea. Force every parking lot to have chargers, and every fuel station to have fast chargers, problem solved.
(Business Owner) ”Please define ‘force’ for me. I’d like to know if I’m reaching for a pen or a sword.”
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Probably for a pen to write checks. There are multiple locations that have passed laws requiring property owners which have 80+ parking spaces to put in covered parking with solar panels. It seems like it'd be pretty easy to put in level 1 chargers (120V AC) from that. I'd also add a sign that it only works during daylight hours. :)
Of course, of the laws I've seen to do that, none of them have required chargers (so far), so you could take the electricity from those panels and pipe it to your building to run
Germany keeps holding EU back (Score:2)
For decades now German politicians have bowed to steel, automotive and Russian gas, while hollowing out the working and middle class. Look at schroder and his sellout that merkel continued.
They weakened the EU defenses with toxic pacifism, and they stifled progress. And now they are doing it again with EVs because they failed to catch up to modern technologies and markets, for 2-3 decades. Again they are throwing their weight around and making things worse for everyone except themselves and their cronies.
Al
Bans were always just messaging... (Score:2)
You can't ban petrol cars until they are already almost extinct anyways. Current EV market share in the EU is about 15%. If you banned petrol cars tomorrow, there'd be a huge problem because automakers cannot switch from 85% petrol to 100% EV overnight. There also isn't charging infrastructure for every car to suddenly switch to electric. By the time there is sufficient capacity to ban petrol, EVs would already be at 90% market share and the "Ban" wouldn't be very meaningful because it would only impact a s
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You can't ban petrol cars until they are already almost extinct anyways. Current EV market share in the EU is about 15%. If you banned petrol cars tomorrow, there'd be a huge problem because automakers cannot switch from 85% petrol to 100% EV overnight.
Ten years is not overnight.
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No, but if in 10 years time EV marketshare isn't close to 100%, then a ban taking effect would require an overnight transition. A post-dated ban creates no compliance incentive. It can't be enforced if there is no compliance.
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But they were notified in 2023 such that they will have had 12 years to change ... there is no "post-dated ban". The auto makers should be transitioning their fleet in that time, which is what moves the market share. There is "no compliance" only if the auto makers willfully don't comply by not planning and doing. Most of them already have at least a few EV models. They just have to create and build more and stop worrying about their yearly bonuses for a few years. It's all technically doable, the auto make
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They were "notified", but nothing was there to force them to change their product lineup or force consumers to buy what they were selling. The automakers knew full well that if they chose to do nothing (or do very little) until 2035 the ban could not take effect. You are never going to get a for-profit business to do something out of the goodness of their hearts. There has to be an economic incentive.
I mentioned Norway in my original post. They did it without bans. Their strategy was to make gas cars unecon
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Insightful)
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most of the new car buyers cannot calculate TCO and they care only about purchase price.
Monthly payments matter. Also when people are poor and can't afford big payments and the vehicles are very expensive then they wind up spending a lot in interest. TCO matters but so does monthly cost.
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The difference of EV vs. ICE car purchase price is negligible compared to the cost of gas
I got a perfectly serviceable ICEV used for $5k. It will do 80 mph all day and it gets 30 mpg. If you buy a used EV for $5k it won't work, and if it does, it will still need a new battery. I could spend $15k and get a really nice used ICEV and still have another $25k to spend on fuel before I got to the price of the EV. Someday when there are more used EVs around then maybe they will actually be cheaper for people for whom it matters.
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Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
Nothing you said conflicts with anything I said
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Well, you also have to consider the large number of people that do not have the capability to charge at home.
The best numbers I've been able to find put that number at about 25% of car owners. That is a large number of people, but it's not a good reason to hold up the EV transition. Such people will transition last, and only after public charging options are sufficient that they don't need charging at home (and after apartment complexes deploy charging infrastructure so more apartment-dwellers can charge at home).
Also, we need to help people understand all you really need for home charging is a standard 120V ou
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We can start talking about apartment charging once at least a majority of homeowners are buying EVs. That is not the case today, so the unpopularity of EVs clearly isn't caused by a lack of home charging. The main issue is psychological resistance to change, and the fact that most people have never actually tried using an EV in real life.
There is also a lack of slow destination chargers - they should be everywhere (hotels, offices, shops). On top of that, there are too many charging networks, each with i
Destination chargers (Score:2)
Your mentioning having slow chargers at destinations, such as offices, is actually a potential solution to apartments being slow about installing charging capacity, or being too expensive about it.
Have people charge at work, not home, in such cases.
The workplace will probably want reasonable rates, many already cover parking for their employees, and with solar power ever expanding, daytime power might actually become cheaper than nighttime.
For areas with actual parking lots, imagine covering the lot with so
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Why? To appease the oil lobby? To combine the worst and least reliable aspects of both vehicle types together? To make the most mechanically complicated vehicle possible?
Just build out charging stations. There are countries already where the idea of needing to be "free" is just a silly concept. Only 2 weeks ago I was driving to a place in Belgium I've never been to, my car informed me that I would arrive with 3% battery remaining and that I should stop for a charge. I didn't. It suggested I look for chargin
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Why? [...] The idea of needing to be free from chargers is one applicable to a country without the forethought to put infrastructure in place that people will use.
Don't know about other countries but here in the UK the chargers owned by BP and such have been increasing the price to the point that my PHEV is cheaper to run on petrol, when last winter I'd use all the battery, AC charge at my destination and return without burning petrol.
The way things are going we'll have variable price according to the time of the day and according to the mood of the vendor. WE could end up with multiple subscriptions to pay just to have a predictable expense rather than a completely
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For about 70% of cars owned, this won’t be much of an issue, because people will charge outside the house once in a blue moon only. For some of the remaining 30% of cars owned, it still won’t be much of an issue, because there’ll be lamp-post or other on-street or work charging with sensible rates. And for the rest, my expectation is that prices will come down (relative to today) as supplier competition increases, which it will due to the build out of charging infrastructure.
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Don't know about other countries but here in the UK the chargers owned by BP
No they aren't. BP own no level 2 charging systems, Pulse are level 3 DC fast charger exclusive. You are talking about fast chargers, precisely the ones in my comment I explicitly stated I ignored on the way to my destination. I just correctly assumed there would be a L2 AC charger at the destination. That is what real infrastructure looks like.
In the past 2 years of EV ownership I've used such expensive stations only a couple of times. I don't have the ability to charge at home, and typical L2 charging is
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You’re kind of missing the point. Planning is only needed in places where the infrastructure build-out is patchy. In Belgium, it isn’t, and it won’t be patchy in lots of other places too, in the future, because electricity is ubiquitous, which means the marginal cost of putting in chargers is low.
I live in the UK, where the build-out is not yet as extensive, but I long ago gave up on planning where I would charge on any trip involving a big drive up a motorway, because there’s charge
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You treated your physical transport in a place unknown to you like a damn cellphone.
No, I treated my car the way people treat cars in a country with infrastructure that supports cars. The story would be different if I lived or travelled in a country where infrastructure only supports a subset of specific cars.
The worst mindset we could possibly convey to EVs, is the ignorant mentality of running it damn near down to zero until you charge.
Welcome to my point. When you have infrastructure you stop using the word "EV". If your post sounds absurd for an ICE vehicle, but you apply it to an EV, then you don't understand what proper infrastructure actually is.
I don't drive an "EV", I only drive a "car".
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I think the USA & EU should start developing hybrids, use a smaller engine that can take over when the battery gets low and charge the batteries while driving and when parked and it frees the car from being dependant on charging stations
When the price of gasoline corruptly translates into the price for every-fucking-thing on the shelf, it tends to remind us of which vehicles we should be targeting for upgrades.
Heavy transport vehicles should go first. So we can curb that corrupt practice of abusing gas price to raise every other price.
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I mean, we already have those all over the place, except they don't change while parked because why would we ever want to do that and focus exhaust in a bunch of stationary cars, exacerbating air quality particularly in things like parking decks?
I *guess* you might be imagining a gas engine so weak as to not keep up with driving that needs extra time, but that's just not an issue. Even if we did want to go with a tiny engine block, it could still keep up with average power demand of going 80mph. However o
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I think the USA & EU should start developing hybrids, use a smaller engine that can take over when the battery gets low and charge the batteries while driving and when parked and it frees the car from being dependant on charging stations
Many European manufacturers already have hybrids Renault, BMW, Mercedes, VW, et al. offer hybrid models. Even the supercar brands are getting in on it (Porsche, Ferrari). It's only the US that seems to be behind here.
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I think the USA & EU should start developing hybrids
They have existed for decades. What did you actually mean to say?
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He’s talking about EREVs. They’ve also been around for decades (eg the i3, the LEVC’s vehicles, etc). A small petrol engine runs at a constant speed when required, topping up the battery. It’s mechanically simpler because the engine doesn’t connect directly to the drivetrain, and the engine can be small and run at its most efficient speed. But it’s still complex and not obviously better than a BEV, which is why it hasn’t really caught on that much.
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That is the design/plan that Ford just announced to replace it's full EV Trucks (Lightning). They are calling it EREV (Extended Range Electric Vehicle). It will be a plug-in Electric Vehicle, with an engine that runs to charge the batteries on long trips.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
Do not throw USA and EU into the same sentence, the EU is so far behind it is not even funny to compare the two. Your agent orange can try as much as you want or dont want, he will not achieve a downfall to sink to the level of EU.
Meanwhile USA is quite energy independent with strong nuclear and oil and gas reserves, and plenty international sources. EU has been weakened by emotional-Germans (ze nukular) and reverted back to burning coal, while not properly maintaining and improving the grid to adjust for t
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he will not achieve a downfall to sink to the level of EU
"Challenge accepted." --American watermelons
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:3, Insightful)
How come the New Development Bank still uses US dollars? Wasn't BRICS supposed to have replaced the dollar by now?
Are you going to invest in this:
"On March 25, 2025, the New Development Bank (NDB) successfully priced a 3-year USD 1.25 billion benchmark bond paying an annual coupon of 4.375%. The bond was issued on March 31, 2025, under the Bankâ(TM)s Euro Medium Term Note Programme."
https://www.ndb.int/borrowings... [ndb.int]
Or this:
"On December 4, 2025, the New Development Bank (NDB) successfully issued a three
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:4, Interesting)
4.375% in US dollars, or 1.88% in RMB?
The USA is experiencing inflation.
China is experiencing deflation.
So the different interest rates make sense.
And where are the BRICS currency bonds?
The "C" in BRICS is China.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
Are you saying you would rather be paid in RMB?
And wasn't the C in BRICS supposed to be using the BRICS currency for trade, not RMB or dollars?
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Are you saying you would rather be paid in RMB?
At the same interest rate, I'd definitely prefer RMB over USD.
And wasn't the C in BRICS supposed to be using the BRICS currency for trade, not RMB or dollars?
RMB is the BRICS currency.
Would you prefer rubles?
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:5, Informative)
This is bizzarre consider you can't even trade RMB freely. PRC has currency controls permanently in place. One time they tried easing those, capital flight from PRC got so insane they spent all time since to this day tightening controls on ways to get money out of PRC.
At this point, people have to do things like insurance fraud to get money out, and even that has been made really hard.
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So if you're a rich Chinese resident, RMB is useful.
Otherwise, it's not, because you can't move it out in any meaningful amounts.
Do you see the problem yet?
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
Did I hallucinate the independent BRICS currency proposed a few years ago, or did you hallucinate that they didn't back off due to lack of demand?
And if you're paid in RMB, had you better be sure you never need dollars, since last time I was in China the unofficial exchange rate you could get for dollars on the street was 10 times what the government allowed at official exchange places?
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And if you're paid in RMB
Paid? I thought we were talk'n about bonds, not paychecks.
last time I was in China the unofficial exchange rate you could get for dollars on the street was 10 times what the government allowed at official exchange places?
You must have been in China a long, long time ago.
There hasn't been a black market for currency exchange in decades.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
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I somewhat regret letting the fools run the world, while I dabbled with interesting computer projects.
Re: Meanwhile in China... (Score:2)
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ICEs still have a 23 to 1 energy density than Li
That's not even wrong, it's just not how anything works. You're comparing a motor to an energy storage mechanism and also ignoring efficiency at the same time.
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Let's not forget that ICE engines are only about 22% efficient (or they use only 22% of the energy in the petrol), so that energy density you're bragging about isn't as good as it looks at first glance. Let's also not forget that EVs don't need engine oil, so there's quite a bit of less fossil fuels used in an EV (i.e. not just avoiding gas).
As for battery recycling, there are multiple companies [globally] doing that right now, so apparently they think it can be done. Of course, they do LI batteries from ma
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No i have ms in aerospace eng and a phd in physics i am not missing anything.
You're literally wrong about everything.
Energy transport of liquid fuels is very expensive. It costs more than 5% while in the USA we lose less than 5% in transmission. Getting the potential energy to the wheels through an ICE means shit efficiency, under 25% and usually under 20% because peak efficiency is reached only in a very narrow range of speeds and loads. There is generally plenty of grid capacity available at night, and when you add a lot of vehicles you can do V2G for grid stabilization and it act
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ICEs still have a 23 to 1 energy density than Li so till that changes nothing hydrocarbon based fuel is not going anywhere.
Push gas prices up to $30/gallon, and you’ll suddenly find no one gives a shit about comparing energy densities.
We know what manipulates this market. At $30/gallon, even the $100K EV looks like a winner.