Another Starship Clone Pops Up In China (arstechnica.com) 54
Longtime Slashdot reader schwit1 shares a report from Ars Technica: Every other week, it seems, a new Chinese launch company pops up with a rocket design and a plan to reach orbit within a few years. For a long time, the majority of these companies revealed designs that looked a lot like SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket. The first of these copy cats, the medium-lift Zhuque-3 rocket built by LandSpace, launched earlier this month. Its primary mission was nominal, but the Zhuque-3 rocket failed its landing attempt, which is understandable for a first flight. Doubtless there will be more Chinese Falcon 9-like rockets making their debut in the near future. However, over the last year, there has been a distinct change in announcements from China when it comes to new launch technology. Just as SpaceX is seeking to transition from its workhorse Falcon 9 rocket -- which has now been flying for a decade and a half -- to the fully reusable Starship design, so too are Chinese companies modifying their visions.
The trend began with the Chinese government. In November 2024 the government announced a significant shift in the design of its super-heavy lift rocket, the Long March 9. Instead of the previous design, a fully expendable rocket with three stages and solid rocket boosters strapped to the sides, the country's state-owned rocket maker revealed a vehicle that mimicked SpaceX's fully reusable Starship. Around the same time, a Chinese launch firm named Cosmoleap announced plans to develop a fully reusable "Leap" rocket within the next few years. An animated video that accompanied the funding announcement indicated that the company seeks to emulate the tower catch-with-chopsticks methodology that SpaceX has successfully employed.
But wait, there's more. In June a company called Astronstone said it too was developing a stainless steel, methane-fueled rocket that would also use a chopstick-style system for first stage recovery. Astronstone didn't even pretend to not copy SpaceX, saying it was "fully aligning its technical approach with Elon Musk's SpaceX." And then, on Friday, the state-aligned China.com reported that a company called "Beijing Leading Rocket Technology" took things a step further. It has named its vehicle "Starship-1," adding that the new rocket will have enhancements from AI and is billed as a "fully reusable AI rocket."
The trend began with the Chinese government. In November 2024 the government announced a significant shift in the design of its super-heavy lift rocket, the Long March 9. Instead of the previous design, a fully expendable rocket with three stages and solid rocket boosters strapped to the sides, the country's state-owned rocket maker revealed a vehicle that mimicked SpaceX's fully reusable Starship. Around the same time, a Chinese launch firm named Cosmoleap announced plans to develop a fully reusable "Leap" rocket within the next few years. An animated video that accompanied the funding announcement indicated that the company seeks to emulate the tower catch-with-chopsticks methodology that SpaceX has successfully employed.
But wait, there's more. In June a company called Astronstone said it too was developing a stainless steel, methane-fueled rocket that would also use a chopstick-style system for first stage recovery. Astronstone didn't even pretend to not copy SpaceX, saying it was "fully aligning its technical approach with Elon Musk's SpaceX." And then, on Friday, the state-aligned China.com reported that a company called "Beijing Leading Rocket Technology" took things a step further. It has named its vehicle "Starship-1," adding that the new rocket will have enhancements from AI and is billed as a "fully reusable AI rocket."
AI designed perhaps (Score:2)
Re: AI designed perhaps (Score:2)
Re: AI designed perhaps (Score:2)
Do you realize how conformist and restrictive that sounds? Did Elon have good reasons for the Cybertruck's looks? Why not be like the French who copy no one, and whom no one copies?
Re: (Score:2)
Why not be like the French who copy no one, and whom no one copies?
No one copies them for good reasons. Why they copy no one is the question.
Re: AI designed perhaps (Score:2)
But did they find the Holy Grail first without all that knees-bent running-around behavior?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:2)
Are you ragin' cause you're a littler troll?
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:3)
What do "facts" like the Tiananmen Square democracy protests matter, right?
Re: (Score:1)
Has Trump killed more people bombing random boats in South America than Chinese killed in Tiananmen?
If he hasn't yet, how much longer until he has?
Why is it sometimes OK to kill civilians? Why do you think it's not OK for China's government to protect itself?
Would America just surrender, like it wants Ukraine to do?
When will I run out of difficult questions you have no answer to?
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:3)
Does Trump deny the boat attacks and put you in a re-education camp if you say they happened?
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:2)
Is your acknowledgment that there even was an incident enough to get you censored by the CCP?
Re: (Score:2)
It actually says a lot that those are the most recent thing you have the beat them up over. Let's judge the modern US by the standards of its response to AIDS and civil rights in the 1980s and 90s.
There is plenty to criticise China over, but if you look at the COVID protests a few years ago it is pretty clear that things have changed a lot.
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:2)
Everything you just said was wrong. At no point in your rambling, incoherent statement did you approach anything close to the truth. Everyone is dumber for having read your comment. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Re: (Score:2)
You should check their energy grid, electrical engineers say that it's at least two decades above anything that will likely be done in the West. They have completely robotic and completely electric (no diesel) open pit mines. Look at a photo of Shanghai from three decades ago and another from today. Their high speed rail lines are second to none, as are their new nuclear power plants. According to Nature magazine they have 8 of the top 10 tech universities in the world.
If you think China is still a Thir
Re: (Score:1)
I don't think they are a 3rd world country technologically, but is still stunted and ultimately doomed without serious political reform. Critics argue that the Chinese totalitarian model:
They do not deny China's achievements.
They argue those achievements came despite total control, not be
Re: (Score:2)
You act as though Western European culture is the only conceivable model, and you're wrong. The Chinese model has worked for China for 5,000 years, modern Western Liberalism is barely two centuries old. Over the last 500 centuries they have managed to learn that while their system works for them, it isn't automatically the perfect fit for everyone everywhere in every time. We as a young barbarian culture have yet to learn that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
How is China being micromanaged when there are now multiple independent starship competitors?
Because they aren't independent.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe that's why Trump is buying stakes in US tech companies now. Whatever they are doing seems to be working.
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:2)
"Their car industry is dominating the planet, etc."
If I say Tiananmen Square in a Chinese car will it brick itself?
Re:China is still a developing country (Score:5, Interesting)
- Companies, even large ones, seem to do very well at scaling up as well as scaling down production runs.
- Extremely short iterations. Want to try something new, with new materials, new shapes? Takes weeks or months in the West, but the Chinese will overnight it. Something that Apple commented on: they did not shift a lot of R&D to China because of cost, but because of speed.
- Lots of cross-pollination between innovators, especially the smaller ones. So-called innovation hubs work in China.
They do go from prototype to production a little fast sometimes, cutting crucial corners. But the speed is impressive. Remember that ridiculous idea of putting a bus on stilts so it could drive over traffic jams? They actually built one. Didn't take more than a few weeks either. I don't think they can get their Starship clone in orbit and back down in one piece before SpaceX will... but if they do, it would not surprise me greatly either.
Re: China is still a developing country (Score:2)
What if someone wants to copy democracy?
Re: (Score:1)
what if they already have a better version?
Shouldn't you be asking yourself why America is copying Russian style "democracy"?
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Shouldn't you be asking yourself why America is copying Soviet style "democracy"?
FTFY
Re: (Score:2)
Re:China is still a developing country (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't clones, they are just the optimal shape. The USSR's Buran had similar claims made against it, but it was very different to the Shuttle. No main engines, larger, different mission profile, and much faster turn-around times. It's just that the best shape for a spaceplane is the shape that the Shuttle is, so every other one looks like a "clone" of it.
It's worse with China for some reason. I was reading today that they have apparently been testing a new far UV lithography machine that was "reverse engineered"... By simply hiring people who worked on the ASML one. That's a new definition of reverse engineering to me.
Re: (Score:2)
That definition of 'engineering' is very popular in Silicon Valley.
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They aren't clones, they are just the optimal shape. The USSR's Buran had similar claims made against it, but it was very different to the Shuttle. No main engines, larger, different mission profile, and much faster turn-around times. It's just that the best shape for a spaceplane is the shape that the Shuttle is, so every other one looks like a "clone" of it.
Yep. Similar to aircraft. There's a reason why planes that perform a specific function at specific performance parameters tend to look alike. Because the parameters demands certain shapes, airflow, capacity, etc, and you end up with planes doing the same mission but designed by different teams yet look alike. See the DC-10/L-1011 airliner situation.
A _picture_ of a starship clone. (Score:2)
Not an actual starship clone. Minor detail, but not insignificant.
They missed out one term (Score:2)
They forgot to add blockchain to the term "AI rocket".
That would have increased their funding by at least 20%.
Maybe the next rocket startup which is copying SpaceX will mention that as well. /j
Use the same design, use the same control software (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Do you really think that a country with almost 1/4 of the world's population, with one of the best educational systems anywhere, which has six of the top ten research institutes in the world and 2/3 of the top technical universities (including 8 of the top 10 according to Nature magazine), is unable to innovate? Be real.
cargo cult (Score:1)
Repeating someone's stupid is the dumbest cargo cult imaginable.
Starship is an idiotic system, it doesn't do anything useful for any purpose whatsoever except transferring money from the people's pockets through the government manipulation apparatus into the hands of Musk and his cronies, that's all. The Chinese could really find a better way to waste money, I am sure of it.
Conclusion? (Score:2)
The tech was either transferred or leaked.
Re: (Score:2)
The tech was either transferred or leaked.
Remains to be seen, I guess. Are any of these Starship copycats anything more than a slide deck? Hell, *I* could put together a "me, too!" slide deck with a little time. There's not much that's come out to show that any of these guys have any stolen/leaked proprietary tech - a lot of it just looks like "hey, I saw on YouTube what SpaceX is doing, I bet I could pull that off, too!"
Although I'm *sure* the Chinese government has been trying to...acquire...SpaceX-proprietary tech. Maybe they've even su
I like the tag (Score:2)
Powered by Venezuelan chips (Score:2)
How typical. Let's just try to copy success and slap some marketing buzz words on it. There are enough stupid people in this world who will fall for it.
"AI" (Score:1)
New space race issues aside, it's been at least a few days since anything has made me facepalm as hard as the phrase "the new rocket will have enhancements from AI".
Re: (Score:3)
ChatGPT: That's a great idea. I will align all 6 thrusters and calculate a trajectory to use optimal fuel burn and get us to LEO.
But ChatGPT, we only have 4 thrusters.
ChatGPT: you're right, my mistake. It seems I hallucinated how many thusters were on board. Unfortunately my calculations are off, and you are now going to die a horrible fiery death.
Would you like
Shitty design (Score:2)
Sure, let them go down that same dead end road that SpaceX has.
This does not help dispell the meme (Score:2)
... that the chinese cannot innovate, they can only replicate
They have plenty of skilled engineers, I'm honestly surprised at the lack of innovation in this area.
Pakistan, India, the world (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They don't protect IP (almost none of which is actually 'stolen') much at all, their entire economy is open sourced.
If Xi copies our bubbles he'll (Score:1)
end up inadvertently copying the bursting also.
I suspect these X-clone adventures are subsidized in multiple ways just as AI, batteries, and solar was.