All That Cheap Chinese Stuff Is Now Europe's Problem (msn.com) 83
President Trump's closure of the de minimis customs loophole in May -- which previously allowed Chinese packages valued under $800 to enter the U.S. duty-free -- has redirected a flood of cheap goods toward Europe, where similar exemptions for packages under $175.8 in the EU and $180 in the UK remain intact.
The shift has been swift: exports of low-value Chinese packages to the U.S. have dropped more than 40% since May, according to Chinese customs data, and the EU has this year overtaken the U.S. as the largest market for China's roughly $100 billion cheap package trade.
Shipments to Hungary and Denmark have quadrupled, and those to Germany, France, and the UK have risen 50% or more. Temu has recorded seven straight months of double-digit U.S. sales declines, per Consumer Edge data tracking credit and debit card transactions. Its European sales, on the other hand: up 56% in the EU and 46% in the UK since May compared to a year ago. The EU agreed last week to impose a $3.5 fee on imported small packages starting in July and to close the de minimis exemption entirely by 2028. The UK plans to follow in 2029.
The shift has been swift: exports of low-value Chinese packages to the U.S. have dropped more than 40% since May, according to Chinese customs data, and the EU has this year overtaken the U.S. as the largest market for China's roughly $100 billion cheap package trade.
Shipments to Hungary and Denmark have quadrupled, and those to Germany, France, and the UK have risen 50% or more. Temu has recorded seven straight months of double-digit U.S. sales declines, per Consumer Edge data tracking credit and debit card transactions. Its European sales, on the other hand: up 56% in the EU and 46% in the UK since May compared to a year ago. The EU agreed last week to impose a $3.5 fee on imported small packages starting in July and to close the de minimis exemption entirely by 2028. The UK plans to follow in 2029.
Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: No not good he already trashed the US economy (Score:2)
It's very very very unfair for China and now everybody rightfully hates America like everybody should be.
It sounds like the EU and the UK have the same idea, so no, Russia does not count as everybody. Besides, rsilverjinping the poo, if it was unfair to your country, then why do you already have much more strict policies in your own country? You don't even follow your own obligations as a member of the WTO.
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Trump's goal here along with the tariffs is to create a national sales tax so that he can eliminate his tax burden and the tax burden of his buddies. As a percentage is still much much much less than you pay but because they have about 60% of all the money in America it's still a pretty big number and they wanted for themselves.
What we're witnessing is a correction for offshoring to countries with very low wages and no tariffs since the Clinton administration. Before you get hung up on tis, this isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. This is a Wall Street and Walmart creation. Anyway, companies are looking at building here in the US again. That's a good thing. You can't bomb a target with a solar panel. I do agree that "tax the wealthy" needs to be a thing at the same time, though. Most of that money isn't creating jobs, it's doing
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Because of the Donald. His crazy tariff policies have already precipitated the whole world into the abyss.
Spoken like a true American. They've not done anything of the sort. The rest of us outside the USA are doing just fine thanks.
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The unfortunate truth is that most people value cheap crap in the now more than more expensive quality products that will last much longer. Unless and until you or anyone else can change human nature the cheap crap will flow, whether from Chi
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It's not human nature. People simply can't afford quality products. The economy everywhere sucks. Too many fucking billionaires and snake oil tech companies hoarding the wealth and ruining the economy. Too many politicians getting their coffers filled behind the scenes. The world needs a reset starting with wiping out this sociopath behavior by those committing it.
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I'm surprised Europe has t figured out a way to regulate the flood of cheap Chinese crap out of existence. While they have tariffs of their own in some cases they usually just find other ways to enact protectionism to keep foreign competitors out of local industries.
We have at least to some degree, the $175 de minimis is only for customs fees which are only like 5% anyway. VAT is now applied to all packages so the likes of aliexpress and temu include taxes in the price and charge it at checkout, removing some of the advantage.
Obviously that wasn't quite enough becase they're now introducing this $3.5 fee which I haven't even heard of before.
Re:Good (Score:4)
Why would we do that? It's good stuff. The same stuff you get on Amazon, but for literally 1/10th the price.
A lot of it is good quality too. Better than European brands in some cases, e.g. I bought a Wolfbox air blower and kids I significantly more powerful than anything else on the market except for Makita stuff costing 5x as much. Don't take my word for it, there are numerous scientific tests of those things in YouTube.
Or thermal cameras. FLIR can't compete with the Chinese manufacturers and their high resolution modules.
Keep in mind you are being fleeced on most of this "quality" stuff. I was looking at USB borescope cameras. Local place wanted £50, Amazon wanted £30, AliExpress wanted £1.50 and they are all the same thing. Same product photos, same USB IDs, same camera module and PCB. I know because I bought all three for work and took them apart.
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Yeah, the stupid Chinese haters do not realize that. ...
Just as if a company is rich enough to run two production lines: one for cheap crap and one for expensive top notch stuff. And two supply lines and there are gabs out there that only produce trash for the cheap trash above
Look at those myths that Chines cars would not meet European safety standards.
Well, I really wonder how they can be here in Frankfurt all over the place.
I guess they are only rebranded Teslas or something ... Makes sense, right?
Re:Good (Score:4, Informative)
I am very on board with policies that clamp down on this tidal wave of cheap junk
Because it is cheap does not mean it must also be bad (although I will agree there was a lot of cheap junk being sold). There are some items for which the only manufacturer ended up being offshore, so now that item costs more due to the taxes.
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Whatever. His tariffs have thrown a lot of small American businesses out of business because they relied on stuff that is not made in the U.S. but is made by China. That's American jobs down the dumpster because that idiot never thinks further than his nose. People like you should stop buying his cheap bullshit.
We all know the counter argument. However, it will take a fair amount of time for American manufacturing to gear up. Except that won't happen because, these being small businesses, the market to them
Re:Good (Score:5, Interesting)
I work for a small manufacturing company. We make some specialized data acquisition systems and accessories. Our prices fluctuate weekly now because you never what the tariff will be on a particular item. One of our products runs on off the shelf lithium battery packs, similar to the old removable laptop style. The chargers for those packs now have an extra $100 tariff added that we must pass along to the customer. I'm not sure how much more greatness we can take.
Re:Good (Score:5, Interesting)
So yeah... great for the 1%.. for everyone else its a kick in the crotch.
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because most SMB's these days do drop shipments
Not even close. The vast majority of SMBs in sales are not drop shippers. That said your point remains intact, it doesn't matter if someone is drop shipping or bulk purchasing. The tariff is the tariff.
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It's not cheap Chinese junk you asshole, https://www.mouser.com/Product... [mouser.com]
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So the cheap junk will come from a different place. What was the point?
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Some of the most expensive stuff is made of cheap junk. This is hurting American small business, but you be happy.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Look.. you buy a 100 pot from say Bed Bath and Beyond (yes I know they are dead... don't worry about it)..
But the actual cost to manufacture said pot is closer to 10 dollars.. then the distributer adds on their cut, then the freight forwarder adds their cut, then the reseller adds on their cut (plus logistics and inventory costs).. so at each step of the way, everyone is adding on 10-20% on top of THEIR last cost..).. and its not like the 10 dollars it costs to make is profit.. if it costs 10 to make, then its really 22 out the door from the manufacturer.
VS..
You van buy it direct (or as close to direct) from the manufacturer or their preferred reseller for 30 dollars (maybe 40 after shipping and taxes).. you have saved 50%..for the SAME pot. Everything you buy has at LEAST 3-4 hands involved to get it front of you.. (sometimes up to 6 depending on origin.. and even if a reseller is acting as OEM (to rebadge product X into product Y under their name).
So despite what a lot people want you think.. its not "cheap junk" its the same stuff you buy every day just with less middlemen... And the modern SMB market thrives on this because it allows for more resellers to drop ship from the manufacturer or distributer without neeeding to hold inventory. (reducing waste on warehouses by multiple resellers/distributers and allows for more regionalized sales/marketing/support, thus creating more jobs)..
All this "closing of holes" does is benefit large retailers because they can afford to hold inventory and because they alread have other products they sell.. adding more doesn't increase jobs.. and as there are LESS options for acquiring products, the 100 dollar pot can easily become 120 or 130 since.... you need the pot and its not like you have other options to get it cheaper. And while price colluding is considered "illegal" in many markets (not all).. PROVING it is more difficult when your data is limited to a few retailers that are accused of such an action. The reason they can't do that right now is with more SMB's selling the same things (or similar things).. they can't collude as much because the others act a price check.. (ie: Hey, I won't buy that 180 pot because I can get it cheaper from cheapyjoe.com for 65.. so I have to sell mine at 70 and market my option with other incentives or lean on my size to justify the other 5 dollars..
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How costs build up is really staggering. I'm getting into the business of importing 3d filament. In Iceland, it currently sells for like $35/kg minimum. The actual value of the plastic is like $1. The factory's total cost, all costs included, is like $1,50. If it's not name brand, e.g. they're not dumping money on marketing, they sell it for $3 for the cheapest stuff. Sea freight adds another dollar or two. Taxes here add 24%. But you're still at like $5/kg. The rest is all middlemen, warehousing, a
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There's still good margin, but it's amazing how quickly costs inflate.
And it is 90% depending on the oil price. As it adds a significant amount on each step.
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A lot of high-quality electronics ship from China. As a hobbyist I've directly felt the burn on IoT project type stuff that simply isn't made anywhere else. I've felt it on high-end Audio gear as well.
I don't know if it's the same policy being discussed, but I've also had the annoying experience ordering a cool pair of *sweatpants* from Canada -- charged the tarrif and a processing fee that combined cost more than the damn pants did.
Trump isn't clamping down on junk.
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Your "junk" is someone else's "must-have".
Your "must-have" is someone else's "junk".
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I have to say as a diehard Trump-hater, I am very on board with policies that clamp down on this tidal wave of cheap junk even if "reduce the amount of cheap junk America buys and immediately throws away" is not actually the policy goal.
I bet you think that the companies exporting their goods to the USA are the ones who pay the tariffs. Come on, be honest you think they do don't you?
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This "junk market" is driven by the customers.
They want that stuff, so the providers fill that market.
Was there a shortage? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't understand how decreasing import to the USA has increased buying in Europe. Was there a shortage and more was going to the US? Did they reduce prices in Europe? The article says "redirected a tsunami of cheap stuff into Europe", so I don't quite understand how the tariff in the US has increased buying in Europe.
Re: Was there a shortage? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Indeed there is no reason for a connection. What I think is happening is Shein and JD.com, maybe others, decided to open retail shops in Europe, so their revenue from Europe is now soaring.
Re: Was there a shortage? (Score:2, Troll)
I don't understand how decreasing import to the USA has increased buying in Europe.
Because you have a working brain.
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I don't understand how decreasing import to the USA has increased buying in Europe. Was there a shortage and more was going to the US? Did they reduce prices in Europe? The article says "redirected a tsunami of cheap stuff into Europe", so I don't quite understand how the tariff in the US has increased buying in Europe.
- Import from China
- Slap "made in EU" label
- Sell it to the USA
- Profit
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The story is likely AI slop.
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I don't understand how decreasing import to the USA has increased buying in Europe. Was there a shortage and more was going to the US? Did they reduce prices in Europe? The article says "redirected a tsunami of cheap stuff into Europe", so I don't quite understand how the tariff in the US has increased buying in Europe.
Exactly. TFS and TFA state the following:
[TFS] The shift has been swift: exports of low-value Chinese packages to the U.S. have dropped more than 40% since May ...
Which is misleading as products aren't being pushed on Europe, or previously the U.S., people are buying/importing the stuff.
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I don't understand how decreasing import to the USA has increased buying in Europe. Was there a shortage and more was going to the US? Did they reduce prices in Europe? The article says "redirected a tsunami of cheap stuff into Europe", so I don't quite understand how the tariff in the US has increased buying in Europe.
It's not a matter of markets but unilateral moves by the Chinese. The reason is that China's economy is heavily dependent on exports, so they are motivated to find replacement buyers. The Chinese should and actually want to increase domestic consumption, but that's easier said than done. So, the immediate solution is to dump Chinese goods on the rest of the world.
Chinese companies are motivated by a desire for increased corporate performance but also by government pressure. The Chinese government is pus
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Does anyone actually feel it? (Score:2)
I don't personally nor do I know anyone who says they miss TEMU or missing the extra few pages of junk to scroll thru first on Amazon one little bit.
I imagine the people who do, still having their needs for the instant gratification of opening a package, any package are met with trash from Dollar General
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I'm pretty sure someone was expecting that we were addicted to that $100B trade, and by throwing a 15-999% tariff on it, 15B-1.5T of fresh taxes were going to be generated. With a 40% drop in purchasing, that's going to translate to a lot lower tax intake than expected. The price for that will probably be more inflation, but the powers that be have shown very little concern over using other, more nuclear options (possibly even literal nuclear options), for handling budget shortfalls.
Exciting times!
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Electronics is my hobby and quite often I would buy things like bnc cables or lighted pushbutton switches direct from Aliexpress. The quality on that stuff is honestly fine. However things like opamps or power transistors are a different story. Nearly 100% of it is relabeled fake parts.
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Same here. A lot tech stuff from Aliexpress is the same stuff you get domestically in Europe or the US, just at 3x or more the price.
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However things like opamps or power transistors are a different story. Nearly 100% of it is relabeled fake parts.
Oh? I have bought OpAmps and power transistors on Aliexpress. So far zero fakes. The only "fakes" I ever got were defective ball-bearings. And if I hat looked at the comments for that seller, I could have avoided that.
Problem? (Score:4, Interesting)
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The fact there can be a 40% decline in an entire category and you don't see it on the streets, in the form of empty shelves, shuttered websites etc suggests to me that a lot of economists when the considered tariff impacts wild underestimated the gamification of shopping.
There are ton of people out there that just scroll and a click buy on things they don't need and if they thought about it for more than moment would realize they don't actually really want - they're just bored...They solve that by frequentl
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tariffs are more limited hands off form of taxation than the alternatives.
if you don't want to pay them; buy something domestic or just hold onto your money.
The issue is that even "domestic" goods typically have parts sourced through imports, so you will pay a hidden "tariff tax" on most products anyway.
Compare that income or property taxes...
They main difference is transparency: with those taxes is far more easy to figure out exactly how much money goes into them out of your pockets. With tariffs you don't really know actually. There is a reason Trump threatened retaliation against Amazon when it was even only suggested they might make the tariff portion of the consumer price transparent to the cons
Re:Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Of course when prices go up people buy less. They can't afford to buy as much as before.
The rest of your post is just a spin. You're trying to claim that "they don't need it". Yes, they can make do with 2 pencils instead of 35, but that's just saying you're in a recession, and people can't afford to live at the same level as before.
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While what you say is true, I think you're indeed missing the GP's point: that in this market of cheap low quality items, a significant portion of the economic activity is not lead by 'needs' but by 'wants', and those wants are easily manipulated by aggressive marketing.
If that's the case, a reduction of activity in that specific market does not mean a recession nor a reduction in quality of life, as those impulse buys were destined to have little practical use. In this case regulation could result in a mor
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The only logic from this simple post is - cheap is bad. I thought somehow paying more for same was stupid, has this changed?
No you misunderstand the point. Cheap is bad, you're not paying more for the same product. You're paying more for a product that is often compliant with local laws, has actual quality control applied, and has an actual business which you can hold accountable.
A significant portion of shit form China is actively dangerous, be it baby toys with choking hazards, food or clothing with dangerous chemicals, or electrical devices likely to burn your house down when it's finished electrocuting you. When those produc
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Quaity and responsibility was correlated to price, but that time has gone.
It has not. It was codified in regulations, which is the point. Bypassing and doing your own imports breaches those regulations.
I can buy shoes in local shop that won't last a season and perfectly well chinesecopied electronics
And you can sue the shop owner if those shoes cause cancer or those electronics electrocute you. That's what we are discussing when we talk about "cheap".
Not for long (Score:4, Informative)
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Not just that but in a few weeks several countries will start allowing the passing on of additional handling fees from customs for small goods too. This is good. The sooner cheap dangerous Chinese shit which doesn't meet local regulations stop being sold the better.
Trump fail (Score:1)
De minimis isn't just about cheap Chinese Junk (Score:5, Interesting)
I think there was a much better way to address the cheap junk from the likes of Temu and Ali express. Closing the De minimis exemption means you can't even send Christmas gifts to family members abroad.
One of my hobbies is working on/restoring vintage European cars. Most of the parts are ONLY available abroad. Even the few domestic suppliers have pretty much emptied their warehouses. With de minimis gone, you can easily pay $50 for tiny odds and ends like a bolt that cost $5. Before, the Bolt would be $5 and they'd charge you $5 to ship it and you'd get it for $10. Now, most shippers charge a minimum fee of $20 for customs processing and a minimum of $20 tariff regardless of value (because they won't allow processing of a $1 tariff). And it's not just the cost. Shipments that would arrive in a few days (because they didn't get a full customs inspection) can now take weeks to arrive. Other's I've talked to have had shipments flagged and returned for no apparent reason. We are collateral damage in the fight against cheap Chinese junk. I've never even ordered from Temu.
Business opportunity (Score:3)
Trusted third party that collects and batches multiple orders into lumps big enough to keep the tariff overhead reasonable.
Of course it would have to charge its own overhead for receiving and dispatching orders... never mind.
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These days it is absolutely about Chinese junk. That's the problem, it was ruined by abuse. De minimis was introduced long before cheap Chinese shit even was a thing, but the fraudulent import of non compliant goods combined with the general population being fucking dumb and happily burning their house down if it means saving $5 on a non-UL listed USB charger means the cheap blind importing of products is no longer viable.
I hope a local company comes in to support your hobby. But I feel like quite a few suc
Europe was being flooded before Trump (Score:1)
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Yeah the article is stupid. Also worth noting the de minimis exemption disappears in Europe in July as well.
Doesn't Add Up (Score:2)
Why would European sales jump so much because the U.S. has blocked imports?
It is perfectly understandable that Chinese exports to the U.S. would drop, precipitously. But, why would Chinese exports to Europe increase because of it? What was holding back the European market up to this point?
It doesn't make sense. Are we supposed to believe that the U.S. demand had been exceeding the Chinese supply of Temu shit and that European buyers finally have a chance to buy what was previously an exhausted supply? I'm n
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I would agree. But then, in the next line they said;
Shipments to Hungary and Denmark have quadrupled, and those to Germany, France, and the UK have risen 50% or more.
So it's not relative volume. It is actual volume increase dramatically in much of Europe.
It doesn't really add up.
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Maybe the U.S. was a more profitable market for crap, and was consuming a lot of product volume. Now that the volume is not goting to the U.S., it's free to be funneled to waiting (less profitable) destinations in Europe?
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The US market was easier to access.
EU was second easiest.
Now the the EU market is easiest, and US is ranked far below the EU.
haha no (Score:3)
"President Trump's closure of the de minimis customs loophole in May"
NEVER HAPPENED.
I buy stuff from AliExpress all the time and I'm not seeing these big promised tariffs on my small orders.
doubleplusungood (Score:1)
This world is upside down, where getting plentyful cheap stuff is considered to be a problem, where tariffs will make something great again. It is like living among amoeba brained monkeys.
the EU has no exemption (Score:1)
We used to, and it was like €20 until 2021, but now it's €0.
Items under €150 are supposed to have their local VAT assessed, collected, and remitted by the seller (globally).
Items over €150 are assessed for VAT at entry (for an additional fee)
Items under €150 that are not handled by the seller are assessed at entry (for an additional fee)
Gifts have an exemption, but postage is counted toward the total, and the insane cost of shipping ANYTHING these days means you end up paying the VA
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False. You're confusing two things. VAT != import duties, and countries set their own threshold as to where to apply VAT. At present there is an exception to import duties for items under 150EUR which is de minimis (and like in the USA it also has nothing to do with sales tax/VAT).
That exception expires in July 2026 after which imported items will be subject to EU import duties.
Pay up, piggie. The free healthcare ain't gonna pay for itself.
This has nothing to do with raising money. It's to do with stopping people buying cheap shit and getting them to buy proper stuff.
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The majority of shit flooding the world from the likes of Temu, Aliexpress, Wish, etc, is actually dangerous in a literal sense.
Given the case of a declared "tsunami" of "cheap junk", if any of the claims above were true, we'd be seeing corresponding tsunamis of choked children, of people dying from exposure to these chemical poisons and of houses burned down by the faulty electronics.
Yet we see nothing of the sort, so perhaps the quoted statement above is actually bullshit in the metaphorical sense.
Not to mention that enforcing safety regulations has jackshit to do with an extra EU tax accepted at a closed ministerial meeting inst
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It presumes a 1:1 ratio between an item of cheap junk, and a bad outcome.
You can, in fact, have a giant tsunami of cheap junk, and a small increase in choked children, etc.
I am always amazed by just how unintelligent you are.
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You fail at reading comprehension again, so I'll bold the post I'm responding to for your benefit:
The majority of shit flooding the world from the likes of Temu, Aliexpress, Wish, etc, is actually dangerous in a literal sense.
It is, in fact, quite unlikely that a majority of literally dangerous shit will cause an inconspicuous increase in choked children, etc.
I am always amazed by just how great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect you are.
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Something that is dangerous does not have a 100% chance of causing harm. That's not what dangerous means.
Their post is correct, and there are many videos and news articles you can go find yourself of flat-out dangerous electronics coming "the likes of Temu, Aliexpress, Wish, etc."
I am again amazed by just how unintelligent you are.
I still get stuff from China (Score:3)
I've been buying electronic parts/circuits from China for a long time. Lots of good quality items at great prices that are not available from US manufacturers since our manufacturing base has been hollowed out.
I was worried about the elimination of the de minimis exemption but lately I have been able to keep buying these items and the prices don't seem to have increased.
If you go on eBay, you'll find lots of items that are from China with the usual 2-3 week shipping time. When the items arrive, I find that they have been drop shipped from a US address. I don't know exactly how this works but they seem to have figured it out.
It's destroyed small business (Score:2)
What's amazing is how many small businessmen are on the Reddit leopards eating faces forum talking about how Trump is basically ended them.
I mean you own a business that depends on imports and you didn't know what a tariff was... What the actual fuck?
But I mean if people weren't kind of stupid we wouldn'
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If Europe does not close the same loophole (Score:2)
They'll just be indirectly funding Russia's future Europe invasion.