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Military Planners Dread the Arctic, 'Where Drones Drop Dead and GPS Goes Haywire' (msn.com) 117

Posted by EditorDavid from the Arctic-circling dept.
An anonymous reader shared this report from the Wall Street Journal: Sending drones and robots into battle, rather than humans, has become a tenet of modern warfare. Nowhere does that make more sense than in the frozen expanses of the Arctic. But the closer you get to the North Pole, the less useful cutting-edge technology becomes. Magnetic storms distort satellite signals; frigid temperatures drain batteries or freeze equipment in minutes; navigation systems lack reference points on snowfields.

During a seven-nation polar exercise in Canada earlier this year to test equipment worth millions of dollars, the U.S. military's all-terrain arctic vehicles broke down after 30 minutes because hydraulic fluids congealed in the cold. Swedish soldiers participating in the exercise were handed $20,000 night-vision optics that broke because the aluminum in the goggles couldn't handle the minus 40 degree Fahrenheit conditions....

An arctic conflict would force war planners back to basics. Extreme cold makes the most common components brittle. Low temperatures alter the physical properties of rubber, causing seals to lose their elasticity and leak. Traces of water or humidity freeze into ice crystals that can scratch pumps and create blockages. Wires should be insulated with silicone rather than PVC, which can crack. Oil and other lubricants thicken and congeal. In most standard hydraulic systems, fluid becomes syrupy and can affect everything from aircraft controls to missile launchers and radar masts. A single freeze-up can knock out an entire weapons platform or immobilize a convoy.
Even the Aurora Borealis interferes with radio communications and satellite-navigation systems, according to the article.
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Military Planners Dread the Arctic, 'Where Drones Drop Dead and GPS Goes Haywire' More

Military Planners Dread the Arctic, 'Where Drones Drop Dead and GPS Goes Haywire'

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  • -40 degrees (Score:5, Informative)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @01:02AM (#65885775) Homepage

    When mentioning -40 degrees, there is no need to mention F or C, because that's the cross-over point!

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Kelvin says hold my beer.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • It's not "degrees Kelvin", it's just "Kelvin".

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Xenx ( 2211586 )
          They didn't say "degrees Kelvin" they said "Kelvin".

          • They said Kelvin wanted a word (actually wanted to have its beer held) whe suggested that "-40 degreea" doesn't nees further specification, because it's the same temperature for all systems; implying that "Kelvin" would disagree.

            It wouldn't.

            "... degrees" is only ever Celsius or Fahrenheit, never Kelvin.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Xenx ( 2211586 )
              To me, it just looks like you're shoehorning your own interpretation into an otherwise stupid joke. There was no context for them to even mention Kelvin, so why would one assume the use of degrees was implied when the statement as a whole wasn't really in context.

              • Huh? But they did mention Kelvin:

                Kelvin says hold my beer

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Xenx ( 2211586 )
                  I'm seeing a pattern of you finding your own interpretation, regardless of what is being said. I specifically brought up them mentioning Kelvin. How did you read that to say the opposite? I said their wasn't any context for them to have brought up Kelvin at all. The comment they replied to had nothing to do with Kelvin, outside of it being temperature related. Their comment had no relevant tie-in. As such, using the context of the thread to imply they meant "degrees Kelvin" is flawed.

                  • see a pattern ofna split personally on your side (or something).

                    First you say:

                    There was no context for them to even mention Kelvin

                    To which I say:

                    But they did mention Kelvin

                    And then you:

                    I specifically brought up them mentioning Kelvin

                    Dude. Words have meaning. All of them. Everybody in your head needs to get onnthbsame train bfore you use them to.sharw your inner state with the outside world.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Xenx ( 2211586 )
                      Exactly. Words have meaning. If you invent your own, it makes this process difficult. Try actually reading what is written, instead of what you think was written. You failed again to notice that what you think I wrote and what I actually wrote are different.

                      Unless you take the time to acknowledge your mistaken interpretation, I don't see any reason to continue this discussion.

            • In my grandmother's house, there was a thermometer that had scales for C and Ré.
              So, not 'only ever'.

        • kevin is not here

    • Sure, but then you have to explain that fact in case people don't know, which takes longer.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      it's outside of the USA, so it is ALWAYS Celisius

      • But when being reported in the USA the conversion is always done, with no reference to the original reported value.

        "The fine was $27,031" without mentioning it was GPB £20,000, for example. So you can get these weird arbitrary values which are just a round number in some other non-USA system.

        -40ÂF == -40ÂC, but why wouldn't they report that, or even infer that? One assumes it to keep the USA folks uneducated and ill informed...

        • but why wouldn't they report that, or even infer that? One assumes it to keep the USA folks uneducated and ill informed...

          Or it could be that it is so much fun to watch people who can't use Kelvin shit their pants. Or aren't smart enough to do mental conversions.

          Parading around Centigrade or even metrics as a mark of superiority stinks heavily of insecurity to a nation where we use all three.

          If you wish to actually seem like you know something - use Kelvin. No negative numbers, and it starts exactly where a temperature measurement system should start - at absolute 0 degrees, not silly arbitrary things like the freezing p

          • Dude, aren't you the one who is butthurt? Which European bit your arse so hard that your need to tell everyone how much you hate Europeans at every opportunity you get?

            • Dude, aren't you the one who is butthurt? Which European bit your arse so hard that your need to tell everyone how much you hate Europeans at every opportunity you get?

              You bit it - How did it taste?

              If you have issues with me trolling insecure Europeans, welcome to the gang. Game on! The curb stomping begins! The USA made one mistake in WW2, getting involved. And guessing from your username, you are sad at the result of US interference in your thousand year Reich plans!

              No, Mein Freund - I'm not butthurt - despite the weird homoerotic vibe of the insult. I just love to pick on people who act like they are the smartest people on earth, while loudly proclaiming their

      • it's outside of the USA, so it is ALWAYS Celisius

        That's because the rest of the world isn't smart enough to use both.

        If you want to get all high and mighty about your method of measuring temperature, you would use only Kelvin, and nothing else.

        IOW, miss me with that Celsius stuff - -40C is 233.15K. While you guys struggle with minus temps and crossover points and other silliness, there is a system that starts at absolute zero and works its way up. It is based on the Centigrade version of degrees, so you don't have to be too upset.

        But bragging abou

    • I read that it was so cold in the Yukon that propane stopped boiling and tanks required heated jackets. My house would be on the market as soon as spring arrives.

  • Note Testing... (Score:5, Informative)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @01:04AM (#65885779) Homepage

    We do have vehicles and equipment that has proved it works under those conditions. This was a test for new equipment.

    • This auto-generated article inadvertently implies that the extreme cold was somehow unexpected... Dear God, when will the stupidity stop.

    • Also, the same conditions will be affecting the other side, so both sides are equally handicapped.

      Unless the other side is Finland, in which case you're screwed, -40 degrees is when the Finnish army cancels winter training due to warm weather.

      • Unless the other side is Finland, in which case you're screwed, -40 degrees is when the Finnish army cancels winter training due to warm weather.

        The only army to have successfully stopped the Russian army in winter.

    • You don't find it fucking odd as hell that modern systems are performing worse than ancient systems? It is almost like nothing was ever learned and that knowledge should never be passed on or learned.

      It is like starting at day 0 for EVERY fucking project. Just insanity.

  • Uhh (Score:3)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @01:06AM (#65885781)

    If we're fighting a war in the Arctic the world has already ended.

    • In this case, it's along the lines of "Those who wish for peace; prepare for war".

      By conducting public testing like this, it demonstrates that we have the capacity, that we are not slacking off, and this reduces the chances of us needing to use said capacity.

      Same idea behind deploying with NBC protective gear and smallpox vaccines - if anybody gets any ideas about using that stuff, well, we're nominally ready for them, reducing the benefit of even trying.

      Everything I've seen says that the DoD would really p

  • Ask Moscow (Score:3)

    by cusco ( 717999 ) <brian.bixby@gm a i l.com> on Sunday December 28, 2025 @01:06AM (#65885783)

    If they want to know how to carry out military operations in the Arctic they should ask the country with the largest expanse of permafrost on the planet. I'm sure the Kremlin would be happy to give them some tips, right? :-)

    • Re:Ask Moscow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by newcastlejon ( 1483695 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @01:35AM (#65885803)

      I'm sure the Kremlin would be happy to give them some tips, right? :-)

      Ask the Finns. They know a thing or two, just ask the Russians.

    • In putinland it is called "meat waves", pushed forward by barrier troops.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      After their 3 day Special Military Operation dragged on into its 4th year...Russia is the last place you'd go for military advice of any kind.

    • Russia wins in large thanks to Generals Winter and Mud.
      It's officer corps...not so much.

      • Gens Winter and Mud won't have much to say when it's missiles flying in via the Arctic, just targeting command centers to destroy. Don't send actual human troops into Russia, and one would be fine

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          The amount of delusion and uninformed opinionating in this thread is pretty high, even for Slashdot. It would be amusing if it weren't so revealing how many people just rely on the MSM for any information they might have on foreign countries, which just makes it kind of sad.

    • Maybe, but they'd actually need to have the manpower from whom they can conscript people to go fight on their northern shores, let alone the Arctic. Except that they've been shedding it all in Ukraine. If China wanted to walk into Siberia, there ain't much that Putin could do about it: he's exposed himself as a paper tiger

    • Their equipment barely works in moderate climates.

  • We need to know that our equipment will work in the extreme north if we have to chase some holdouts and rebels there. /s

    • Ever hear of Albert Johnson who was shot in 1931 after a 150-mile chase across the frozen Yukon in -40 degree temperatures, due to complaints about his trapping?

      • Not until the movie comes out with the next WWWF wrestler putting his acting skills to better use.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        Thank you, I've been trying to remember the guy's name for ages. I read the story when I was a kid (in the long-gone Argosy magazine), and have wanted to go over it again to recall if it really was as incredible as I remembered.

  • It cannot be the aluminum (Score:3)

    by alw53 ( 702722 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @03:51AM (#65885897)
    Passenger jets are mostly made of aluminum and operate below -40 all the time.
    • It would be a design mistake that I'd be a bit surprised nobody doing Swedish military contracting would have thought of; but seems plausible enough: aluminum has a fairly high coefficient of thermal expansion(markedly different from glass, which ranges from 'lower' to 'much lower' depending on the formulation); and specialized vacuum tubes remain the image intensifier of choice, thanks to their sensitivity, despite being fairly delicate(and nontrivial to just put a cushy mount around unless you are OK with
  • We have had to cancel your invasion of Greenland...
    • Actually, any invading army just has to capture Nuuk, Qeqertarsuaq, Ilulissat and a handful of other cities, probably 4. They won't have to fight for every acre of Greenland, which is even less populated than Alaska. Their population is just 57,000: how many troops would an invader need to conquer them?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        US Army? Around 120,000. Now to hold it will take at least twice that.

      • Providing all the needed extra "Q"s.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Actually, any invading army just has to capture Nuuk, Qeqertarsuaq, Ilulissat and a handful of other cities, probably 4. They won't have to fight for every acre of Greenland, which is even less populated than Alaska. Their population is just 57,000: how many troops would an invader need to conquer them?

        It's not the capturing part that's hard. That's the easy part, the US Army will have that accomplished in a few hours.

        The problem is, and always has been, holding area. Capturing is easy since you'll have it

        • LOL you're comparing countries with 40+ million people(Iraq & Afghanistan) with Greenland's 57,000?

          They wont be dispersing into the wilderness to live off the land and take pot shots. It will be like a teenager who runs away from home. And comes back again that night when it's cold and he wants his dinner.

    • Nice .sig. Now do one about "smoking fags" :-)

  • But _of course_ the Aurora Borealis. However that serves to help some long range VHF communications, some military high power communications.

    The fun one is the Dellinger fadeout which will wipe out frequencies from 3-30MHz and leave the bands stone dead.

  • All of the wiring should be silicone-jacketed already. PVC is flammable AF and is also toxic AF when it burns. It's not that you want to huff burning silicone jacketing, but it's a lot less toxic than PVC, which produces large quantities of dioxins because of the chlorine involved in its makeup. And finally, silicone wire is a lot less likely to combust in the first place. The majority of car fires are caused by electrical faults (specifically shorts) occurring in the engine bay, then the insulation catches

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kackle ( 910159 )
      Thank you for the information. I am in electronics and have wrenched on cars for decades. Maybe they don't worry about it because everyone is going to try to get away from any car fire immediately. Unless you're talking about environmental impact...

      And I've observed this for a while in cars: I no longer blame the automotive manufacturers for the seemingly dumb designs they come up with. I realized that the cheapest thing for them to do/change is "nothing", so why do they change their designs consta

      • I realized that the cheapest thing for them to do/change is "nothing", so why do they change their designs constantly? It's the pollution laws that force them to play these expensive games

        Or it's planned obsolescence. If parts stayed the same for years, that would lead to a robust second-hand market. This way customers are forced to buy a new car instead of pulling an abundant spare part off a wreck for a few bucks.

        But I'll grant you that there are also some bad design decisions based on "cheaper to manufacture" taking priority over "cheaper to maintain."

    • The great thing about PVC is that it's cheaper; and you can be a dick about it and try to change the subject by ignoring the fact that silicone is just plain better and instead whining about how eurocrats and environmentalists are taking away lead and cadmium based thermal stabilizers and pretending that is the real problem. At least the plasticizers are often toxic as well, though less obviously, so you still get to use those in wire cladding applications.

  • Time to break out the Antarctic Snow Cruiser! [wikipedia.org] Just kidding, that thing sucked. Tracked vehicles are definitely the way to go. Still I thought that thing was cool in that you could live in it for a very long period of time.

  • > Sending drones and robots into battle, rather than humans, has become a tenet of modern warfare. Nowhere does that make more sense than in the frozen expanses of the Arctic.

    Only if your Military Industrial Complex is totally out of control.
  • This whole thing, with cold weather altering military aspirations, has been vetted before. Read the lead story in "Napoleans Buttons". Or just Google it.

  • Not to be pedantic... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @10:15AM (#65886191)
    But no, the Aurora Borealis doesn't interfere with radio communications. The solar wind and its effect on the magnetosphere does. When the solar wind is such that it affects the trajectory of charged particles in the magnetosphere, aurora can appear. The aurora are a symptom, not a cause.

    But yes, the conditions that wreak havoc with radio comms are the same conditions that cause the auroras.

  • Maybe they should have thought about cold during the acquisition process. But then just grease the generals and their families and it becomes the soldiers problem

  • I guess ... (Score:3)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Sunday December 28, 2025 @03:28PM (#65886665)

    ... we'll just have to rethink warfare [pinimg.com] in the arctic.

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