How Windows 10 Earned Its Good Reputation While Planting the Seeds of Windows 11's Problems (arstechnica.com) 39
Windows 10's formal end-of-support arrived in October, and while the operating system is generally remembered as one of the "good" versions of Windows -- the most widely used since XP -- many of the annoyances people complain about in Windows 11 actually started during the Windows 10 era, ArsTechnica writes.
Windows 10 earned its positive reputation primarily by not being Windows 8. It restored a version of the traditional Start menu, rolled out as a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users, and ran on virtually all the same hardware as those older versions. Microsoft introduced the Windows Subsystem for Linux during this period and eventually rebuilt Edge on Chromium. The company seemed more willing to meet users where they were rather than forcing them to change their behavior.
But Windows 10 also began collecting more information about how users interacted with the operating system, cluttered the lock screen with advertisements and news articles, and added third-party app icons to the Start menu without user consent. The mandatory Microsoft Account sign-in requirement -- one of Windows 11's most frequently complained-about features -- was a Windows 10 innovation, easier to circumvent at the time but clearly a step down the road Windows 11 is currently traveling.
To be sure, Windows 11 has made things worse by stacking new irritants on top of old ones. The Microsoft Account requirement expanded to both Home and Pro editions, the SCOOBE screen now regularly nags users to "finish setting up" years-old installations and Microsoft's Copilot push changed the default PC keyboard layout for the first time in 30 years.
Windows 10 earned its positive reputation primarily by not being Windows 8. It restored a version of the traditional Start menu, rolled out as a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users, and ran on virtually all the same hardware as those older versions. Microsoft introduced the Windows Subsystem for Linux during this period and eventually rebuilt Edge on Chromium. The company seemed more willing to meet users where they were rather than forcing them to change their behavior.
But Windows 10 also began collecting more information about how users interacted with the operating system, cluttered the lock screen with advertisements and news articles, and added third-party app icons to the Start menu without user consent. The mandatory Microsoft Account sign-in requirement -- one of Windows 11's most frequently complained-about features -- was a Windows 10 innovation, easier to circumvent at the time but clearly a step down the road Windows 11 is currently traveling.
To be sure, Windows 11 has made things worse by stacking new irritants on top of old ones. The Microsoft Account requirement expanded to both Home and Pro editions, the SCOOBE screen now regularly nags users to "finish setting up" years-old installations and Microsoft's Copilot push changed the default PC keyboard layout for the first time in 30 years.
it wasn't 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 10 got a good reputation at the very last second, and only because 8 was pure shit and 11 makes 8 look good.
Windows 7 will always and forever be remembered as the last best version, and also as the best version by anyone not in love with 2k or server 2k3.
Re: (Score:3)
If you wanted an argument, you'd have picked either a different subject or a different partner. But some things are shittier than others, and most of the things have good things about them. For example, Teams is a really amazingly complete package with a lot of functionality. Unfortunately, it's a piece of shit. Windows 7 had what I consider to be one of the all time best interfaces, a little light on functionality but everything about the early system's UI was good except the inconsistency — and 8 wa
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Disagree.
Windows 10 had a bad reputation from the get-go, because of forced upgrade, spyware, and being bloated and consuming over 2gb of RAM doing absolutely nothing, and not forgetting: forced background updates and restarts.
It gained a some-what "good" reputation because people simply forgot and became accustomed to the new way of living with a system constantly spying on its users and being forced with updates being pushed without them knowing what was going on and what "updates" were being applied.
Peop
Re: (Score:2)
otherwise it improved on Win7 and fixed countless UI issues
Even putting aside the shitty shell, Windows 8 caused many more UI issues than it solved, so that's not a win either.
Re: (Score:1)
Windows is like Star Trek. So much hate when it's new, but after maybe 6-7 years it becomes beloved and the hate moves on to the new new show.
By the way, Starfleet Academy starts next month.. Guess what the Reddit "fan" base hates, even before they have seen it?
Re: (Score:2)
Windows is like Star Trek. So much hate when it's new, but after maybe 6-7 years it becomes beloved and the hate moves on to the new new show.
The masses will never appreciate the lost and meandering story of ST:D.
2K FTW! (Score:3)
It was the best Windows version ever!
Take off the rose tinted smart glasses bud. (Score:5, Interesting)
rolled out as a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users
That's not quite how I remember it. Wasn't it more of a forced, unrequested, unannounced whole O/S upgrade that could only be stopped by a registry hack or installing Gibson's Never10?
,
Other Windows Problems (Score:5, Informative)
Still More Windows Problems (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's Not Romanticize Windows 10 (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's not romanticize Windows 10. It was shit. That Windows 11 is currently more shit doesn't change that.
If you'll pause to reflect for a moment. You'll come to realize what Microsoft has known all along. That is; whatever version has been the version for a few years becomes the favorite and the new release is hated. This has been the case since the upgrade from Windows 2000/XP to Vista. Everybody "loved Windows 7. Would you trade Windows 10 for Windows 7? No, you would not. You might think you would, but 5 minutes into it you'd be saying something completely different.
There have been only two universally hated Windows versions. To the point that no one would use them. Windows 98ME and Windows 8. Both of which have been declared as war crimes by the U.N.
Re: (Score:2)
Let's not romanticize Windows 10. It was shit. That Windows 11 is currently more shit doesn't change that.
I like Windows 10. It was a huge pain in the ass and time investment especially disabling malware and medic watchdog to make usable but at least it could be made to work with assistance of numerous external programs, hacks and tweaks.
My biggest issue is the half assed "modern" settings and intentional sabotage of old ones. I'm using rasphone to manage VPN connections now because the native interface is completely unusable. There have been BSODs from their borked UASP driver. NVIDIA driver bugs occasional
Re: (Score:2)
still regularly use Windows 2000 in a VM for compatibility testing.
Why? What are you using Windows 2000 for? It's been end of life for 20 years.
Re: (Score:2)
Would you trade Windows 10 for Windows 7? No, you would not. You might think you would, but 5 minutes into it you'd be saying something completely different.
There's only one API newer than what's in Windows 7 that I care about (desktop duplication) and it's irrelevant to my job, so if I could somehow have Windows 7 back at work (where I actually run Windows) I would absolutely take it back in a hot second. There is absolutely nothing else I give one shit about in 8, 10, or 11, and quite a number of things I want changed back.
Re: (Score:3)
I mostly agree with you. But there were some versions of Windows that were *never* romanticized. Nobody *ever* longed for Windows 98, ME, Vista, or 8.
Substantiate this (Score:2)
Would you trade Windows 10 for Windows 7? No, you would not. You might think you would, but 5 minutes into it you'd be saying something completely different.
Please tell me why I - and a good number of other people - wouldn't want an OS that was Windows 7 + UEFI/NVMe support + the HAL introduced in Windows 8 + whatever API/backend updates are required to run current-gen software?
The glass look was better than the borderless squares...and while Win7 still made it possible to choose borderless, flat squares if desired, Win10/11 requires WindowBlinds for the same task. "Settings" is in no way an improvement over the Control Panel. Notifications is worse than the ba
Don't forget: Windows 10 touted as "last version" (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget: Microsoft said that Windows 10 is the last version of Windows. [theverge.com]
The article is correct though: The real reason is that the horrible parts of Windows 10 were optional before, and they are now required in Windows 11.
Also note that the web in general does this same stuff by default, and nobody cares. People log-in to Chrome using their gmail account, then happily browse an advertising-laden web while Google tracks and sells their every move. They log-in to Pinterest and Facebook and Tiktok and whatever, happily sharing their data. So the market has spoken: Nobody cares enough about the surveillance to actually change their habits.
How long before we login to Slashdot with Gmail credentials? This is like the last site left on the "old web." All 100 of us left. *shakes fist at cloud*
Re: (Score:2)
I think the pile of garbage is getting precarious even by MS standards. Linux has always been "a little bit leaner" but when I'm seeing 20% higher FPS in my games on Linux, even though they're being ran through a compatibility layer.
I'm really hoping that gamers see the FPS they're leaving on the table and start demanding Linux support. Seems like half the productivity software is going web-based now anyway, although I guess Microsoft could start fucking up Linux compatibility with Office 365.
Make it the last version.... for you (Score:2)
Make it the last version.... for you
The message is clear: Use Linux (or MacOS)
Correction (Score:4)
... rolled out as a free upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users ...
... rolled out as a forced upgrade to Windows 7 and 8 users ...
People need to never forget that Microsoft's penchant for forcing shit down users' throats goes back long before Windows 11 came along.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows 11 was a forced upgrade from 10 as well... assuming that your hardware was new enough to support it.
Sing-a-long time: (Score:1)
What reputation? (Score:2)
10 still had a host of issues. It's just moderately better than 11, hence it has a "good" reputation.
How low are our standards if that's the case? MS is worthy of such scorn, but they're hardly the only ones who's software continues to get worse and worse as time goes on.
Rare is the software upgrade that is actually an upgrade.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. Win10 was so-so, but you could mostly live with it. But Win11 can only be called bad. Same hardware, same drivers, etc. and I get crashes, instabilities and bizarre behavior after the downgrade from 10 to 11. At the same time, slower, needs more resources and has zero improvements that I can see.
"Dave's not here, man..." (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Everything 'doze since 2K has been a poor excuse to charge for upgrades.
MS Office has not functionally improved outside fringe edge cases since v4.3.
Still looks ass compared to latex.
An OS isn't "good", it's functional. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good as a term is too moralizing. I would call Windows 10 functional in that it's stable and does what you ask from it. What else do we want from an OS?
Windows 11 also fits that bill but just like 10 and even 7 if you're smart enough to find it's faults you're also smart enough to fix them to which those tools to do so have always existed; from Systernals to Nirsoft to Classic Start to WinAero, Windows has always been very tweak-able and if something that annoys enough users (like telemetry) one of them will find a way to dissect it from the system. The answer of "Just use Linux" is as valid as someone saying back "Just use Windows".
If the complaint is out of the box Windows isn't set up for a persons particular use case that really can't be a complaint or what would we say about why there are over 100 different distros of Linux?
Windows 10 was never good (Score:3)
It's UI is absolutely ugly. It looks like someone would have noticed that 7's UI is violating some silly trademark (too round corners?) and MS then quickly draw a replacement in Paint. On the technical part, I read the guide about how to make it GPDR compliant. The full procedure involves having a dedicated firewall on another host to block some of the requests that go around any disable switch in Windows 10. The only real feature that 10 did better than 7 was introducing virtual desktops. They work well for a MS product. But I don't recall any other improvements over 7.
Windows 10 fixed the nightmare that was 8 (Score:2)
Windows 11 is constantly spying on you to train AI so that they can eliminate your job no matter what your job is.
As a result it guzzles down not just ram but processor cycles and so it runs dog slow.
Also Microsoft has been using shitty AI to write patches and so every other week your computer is being destroyed by system updates.
It's not possible to have
11 is so bad I'm looking at Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 7 was the best, and yes 10 was the start of everything we hate in 11.
The last straw: forced reboots. Every control panel setting, registry hack or service disable to stop it is overwritten by the overlords at Microsoft. They will reboot your computer whenever they good and well please. I have lost incredible amounts of work. Even when I did save everything, I have to remember where I left off and re-open everything.
I've had it. Microsoft has forgotten who owns the computer.
Windows 10? 'Good' reputation? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
No shit. Everyone recalls old Windows versions through rose-tinted glasses. They remember how those old versions were less bad than the newer versions. 7 was the last Windows I used, it was definitely better than 8, 10, and 11, but I also remember forced activation and broken updates.
ORLY (Score:1)
when to upgrade (Score:2)
The time to upgrade a microsoft product is when the product is finally mature and stable, and that occurs when the product finally reaches "end of life." Now I can finally feel safe to upgrade to win 10. Won't have work interrupted by forced updates, for example, and a huge number of security flaws have already been fixed.