Nepal To Scrap 'Failed' Mount Everest Waste Deposit Scheme (bbc.com) 59
A scheme to encourage climbers to bring their waste down from Mount Everest is being scrapped -- with Nepalese authorities telling the BBC it has been a failure. From the report: Climbers had been required to pay a deposit of $4,000, which they would only get back if they brought at least 8kg (18lbs) of waste back down with them. It was hoped it would begin to tackle the rubbish problem on the world's highest peak, which is estimated to be covered in some 50 tonnes of waste. But after 11 years -- and with the rubbish still piling up -- the scheme is being shelved because it "failed to show a tangible result."
As the saying goes... (Score:5, Insightful)
You want compliance, try telling them that climbers who bring at least 8kg of waste with them get to come back down. Vastly more exciting than a $4k discount on a trip where the ultra-budget options are ~$35k and going north of $50k is pretty common and past 100k hardly unheard of.
Re: (Score:1)
Pay to have extra sherpas bring up balloons with bags. The balloons have built in thermal source to heat them enough to loft them (or use some other scheme). Launch waste balloons when the wind in the right direction for them to float to the lower elevations. Pay the locals to retrieve them and dispose of the trash. It is slow process but over time it can reduce the waste near the top. Might even be able to optimize with a radio command to drop immediately when over the right area; radio command pops the b
Re: As the saying goes... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
That has actually been proposed but the physics of it don't work. To make the cable strong enough to resist the extremely high winds it becomes too heavy to get it up the mountain side.
Re: As the saying goes... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like a job for some of these vaunted smart robots that don't breathe air and don't get tired and otherwise work like a human. They should be able to climb Mt. Everest and even heft an oversize backpack to bring trash and a lot of other things down, like maybe injured climbers, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Two words : Battery life.
Re: (Score:2)
Solar should be really intense up at altitude, the robot may have to stop and rest from time to time while recharging. Installing a power grid up there may actually be feasible if the robots do it.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you really don't get the "wilderness" part of mountaineering, do you?
Elevators all the way to the summit.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you really don't get the "wilderness" part of mountaineering, do you?
Elevators all the way to the summit.
I get that there may be some nature worship going on, but the fact is that there may be a way to tame nature a bit so's not quite so many people get killed, and maybe they could even clean the place up a bit. No mystical soul-experience is worth people dying when they don't have to. If we can build robots to do what we want to be able to do anyway, which is wilderness rescue, we should build them.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you really don't get the "wilderness" thing, do you?
What did you think of Tejado-Flores' analysis in "Games Climbers Play"? I think it amply punctured the nature of the game in expedition climbing, and a full decade before the first oxygen-free ascent. Anyone playing the expedition game these-decades knows they're a failure before they start.
Re: (Score:2)
Many commenters don't understand how dangerous the trash removal is. There are human bodies near the summit which haven't been removed.
After a little research drones are likely the answer. They already have them working up to 20,000ft. With more R&D it is possible to make drones which work at the summit and still have lift capacity. Many people are already flying camera drones at the summit.
Re: (Score:2)
Might be more practical to burn the waste with napalm.
Re: (Score:2)
I think the wind would be a bigger issue than the altitude itself. Ventusky is showing wind speeds of 90mph at 30,000 ft over Nepal right now, and I believe that's fairly normal.
Maybe they have a calm season, but I've heard it's unpredictable and highly variable.
Re: (Score:1)
Will you be attending the funerals of each person killed attempting to retrieve a trash balloon cargo from a dangerous landing location? You, personally?
Because that person's death is your fault.
Well done,
all hikers must (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Climbing down with a bunch of shit strapped to you is more likely to end in death than coming down unladen.
Re: (Score:2)
And the problem is ...?
You go to Everest base camp ; you're already accepting a non-zero chance of death through altitude sickness.
It's very expensive (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah basically.
Stupid Ineffectual Law (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They need to make the fee far more substantial and punitive. Everest climbers are spending tens of thousands of dollars to make the climb. A paltry $4k is an easy sacrifice to not have to schlep your shit. I'm surprised any of them brought anything at all back.
2. Nepal need to make the weight requirement at least 50% greater than the average waste generation rate. If the average climber generates 26lbs. of waste, then require them to bring back 38lbs. of waste.
Properly done, the climbers would clean up the mountain, or the Nepalese government would have enough money to send up garbage Sherpas.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Stupid Ineffectual Law (Score:5, Informative)
Which is exactly what the new plan is about. The money would go to a dedicated fund which would then pay for sherpas to climb up and bring trash down.
As the article relates, most of what is brought down comes from the lower camp(s). It's the ones higher up, where there's less oxygen, that aren't getting cleaned up. You're already exhausted from being there or trying to make the ascent. The last thing you have energy for is to haul down your oxygen bottles or tents.
And this doesn't take into consideration all the human bodily waste which keeps accumulating and can't degrade because of the persistent freezing temperatures.
Re: (Score:2)
And this doesn't take into consideration all the human bodily waste which keeps accumulating and can't degrade because of the persistent freezing temperatures.
So either use poopcopters or adapt that design of the robot that runs on composting snails, and make it run on composting shit.
Re: (Score:2)
In 2019, they pulled out 11 tons of waste and bodies [pbs.org]. Apparently, that made a small dent in what is there.
Re: (Score:3)
So either use poopcopters
There were exactly two helicopter landings ever on the Everest summit, and the sole purpose was setting a world record. The helicopter was stripped down to reduce weight so I guess taking down significant amounts of waste would be out of question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
poopcopter is a recent demo of a drone that can spot dog turds, pick them up, and fly them to a receptacle.
Re: (Score:2)
... then drop them onto the dog-owner's head?
Re: (Score:2)
That would certainly be ideal.
Some fucko is having their dog crap in the gutter in front of my house.
Everest is a vanity pursuit (Score:2)
So, make the incentive vanity. How about keep a record of "most trash hauled down"? I'm sort of being cheeky, but the money isn't the incentive. It's ego.
In either case, shouldn't they keep the program, as it does generate revenue? Can't that revenue be used to subsidize some sort of cleanup effort?
Re: Everest is a vanity pursuit (Score:2)
Make personal cameras illegal on Everest and have professional photographers who earn money by exchanging trash for photos. So, you summit, a pro takes you photo, but then you can't have the photo until you come pay for it with trash at the bottom.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have you considered (Score:2)
Have you considered. $40k deposit? The economics of Everest mean that $4k is a small upgrade, but $40k is a significant increase in the cost of the trip. Or hell, make it $250k.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
55 gallon drums (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You've never seen a photo of the Khumbu Icefall, have you?
No wonder (Score:2)
Ban them (Score:2)
Ban anyone from getting a visa for 10 years if they don't pick up enough rubbish off the mountain.
Re: (Score:2)
Ban anyone from getting a visa for 10 years if they don't pick up enough rubbish off the mountain.
I imagine that for most people, climbing Everest is a once in a lifetime thing, so I don't know how effective that would be. On the other hand, confiscating their passport and not letting them leave Nepal for 10 years or until they clean up enough trash might work.
Re: (Score:2)
That would work... and, apply that to any international tourism spot... if you don't clean up after yourself and a little of someone else' trash, you have to stay and either shlep as much as possible to the proper receptacle, or live as homeless wherever the tourist spot is.
Re: (Score:2)
Rich, or at least very well off, people (as I imagine many/most Everest climbers are) could probably afford better living arrangements, though there probably aren't that many in Nepal. :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Ah hah! Another option... before you ascend, you leave your wallet at a ranger station at the bottom, and don't get it back if you don't bring your trash and some decent amount of other's trash down.
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, confiscating their passport and not letting them leave Nepal for 10 years or until they clean up enough trash might work.
Technically, preventing people from leaving the country like that would be a violation of basic human rights. Of course, the loophole to that is that you can obviously imprison people or keep them on home confinement, etc. as a punishment for a crime. Still, you're talking about a decade long prison term for littering.
Re: (Score:2)
Still, you're talking about a decade long prison term for littering.
I might be okay with that in this case...
Re: (Score:2)
Hos so?
You break the law of a country you're visiting.
You are convicted of that crime.
You lose your liberty for a period of time determined by the court.
What is the problem?
If only we had organ banks, so we could use such miscreants productively.
Re: (Score:2)
Hos so?
You break the law of a country you're visiting.
You are convicted of that crime.
You lose your liberty for a period of time determined by the court.
What is the problem?
I did, in fact, specifically mention that scenario. That would be due process for a criminal infraction which is the known (and once again, acknowledged by me) exception to the human right in question. The post I was replying to, however, did not mention due process or indeed anything that would normally be a criminal infraction. Also, seizing a foreigners passport issued by their own country is extremely unusual for non-criminal cases and even many criminal ones in most countries. In any case, please refer
Re: (Score:2)
This would be much more effective if it applied to all countries with scenic mountains. Shit on one country's mountains ; discover that other countries with nice mountains won't let you off the plane.
Poor implementation. (Score:2)
The problem is that it wasn't set up to actually solve the problem.
The fee should have been set high enough to contract with local Sherpas to go get the trash if the hiker didn't bring it back down, and it should have been spent that way. There should be enough extra in the fee to cover collecting additional trash left in the decades before it became such an embarrassment, with a goal of perhaps collecting it all within 20 years.
Perhaps the fee can be extended to cover a "Body Recovery Insurance" also. Re
Drone work ? (Score:2)
Dunno , but it seems like the carryiing down the mountain could be accomplished using drones. Air is thin .. ok .. might be hard to do but they did manage to have a helicopter working on Mars. Nothing is impossible .. just needs a bit of imagination.
Like the 80s sign on stores... (Score:2)
Like the 80s sign on stores..."No shoes, no shirt, no service."
From Nepal, "No poop, no pay, no point." That is, making it to the top point of Everest.
--JoshK.
Easy fix (Score:2)
A government program that ended! (Score:2)
The most remarkable part of this story is that a government had a program, it didn't get the planned result, so they ended it. This is unheard of.
Most governments would double-down.
The mountain is monetized. (Score:2)
Tourists can afford to pay user fees sufficient to pay for cleanup.
Add a weigh station. (Score:2)
Yes, you lose weight during the trip. Just call it the visitor fee.
They've never heard of waste chutes? (Score:2)
For extra efficiency, drill the other end down to where the lava is. Boom, no more trash problem!