Logitech Caused Its Mice To Freak Out By Not Renewing a Certificate (theverge.com) 68
An anonymous reader shares a report: If you're among the macOS users experiencing some weird issues with your Logitech mouse, then good news: Logitech has now released a fix. This comes after multiple Reddit users reported yesterday that Logi Options Plus -- the app required to manage and configure the controls on Logitech accessories -- had stopped working, preventing them from using customized scrolling features, button actions, and gestures.
One Reddit user said that the scroll directions and extra buttons on their Logitech mouse "were not working as I intended" and that the Logi Options Plus app became stuck in a boot loop upon opening it to identify the cause. Logitech has since acknowledged the situation and said that its G Hub app -- a similar management software for gaming devices under the Logitech G brand -- was also affected.
According to Logitech's support page, the problem was caused by "an expired certificate" required for the apps to run. Windows users were unaffected. The issues only impacted Mac users because macOS prevents certain applications from running if it doesn't detect a valid Developer ID certificate, something that has affected other apps in the past.
One Reddit user said that the scroll directions and extra buttons on their Logitech mouse "were not working as I intended" and that the Logi Options Plus app became stuck in a boot loop upon opening it to identify the cause. Logitech has since acknowledged the situation and said that its G Hub app -- a similar management software for gaming devices under the Logitech G brand -- was also affected.
According to Logitech's support page, the problem was caused by "an expired certificate" required for the apps to run. Windows users were unaffected. The issues only impacted Mac users because macOS prevents certain applications from running if it doesn't detect a valid Developer ID certificate, something that has affected other apps in the past.
Apple Users (Score:4, Funny)
Your mouse stopped working? You should be happy. Apple is protecting you.
Apple will protect you at the bottom of the stairs.
The humans are protected. Our mission is complete.
This is a Mac OS problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Making installed apps stop working? What a controlling move, Apple. If you think your Mac is somehow Linux with a nice desktop and no tomfoolery, you're fooling yourself.
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You can disable all that you know, right?
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Mac users pay nothing to resolve issues like this. There is no "Apple tax" to be paid here.
You are a stooge.
Re:This is a Mac OS problem (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no "Apple tax" to be paid here.
True. It's an Apple tariff. Charged to the 3rd party manufacturers for the priveledge of selling within Apple's sovereign territory. But eventually paid by the users.
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"Passing on the cost" is a fiction. That's not how demand curves work. If someone gave a bonus that partially matched app sales, do you believe customers would receive the full surplus? If not, why do you believe the customers would receive the full weight of a fee?
Fees are shared between the buyer and seller, unless something wonky is going on like a perfectly inelastic demand curve.
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Fees are shared between the buyer and seller,
Where's the seller going to get the money to pay their share? Eventually, they go out of business.
Or take it out of the pockets of the employees.
unless something wonky is going on
Taxes and tariffs are "something wonky".
a perfectly inelastic demand curve.
Like taxes and tariffs. Some intransigent authority with their claws in the market, demanding their cut up front. No matter how it affects the parties downstream. Can't get much wonkier than that.
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From the profit, of course. It's basically the same as if their inputs started to cost more. The margin narrows. They can't just charge more to keep the margins the same. The pricing would be uncompetitive. They will continue to be profitable as long as the margin is positive, but they can't just charge whatever they want.
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Of course they will also reduce bonuses, hire less, and cut costs. They will try to maximize profit as well as intangibles like goodwill. For example a statement like "we're reducing or commission" attempts to increase goodwill and maximizes profit based on the demand curve at the same time. Though I'm not in corporate finance so take this with a grain of salt. (You're not either, so don't give me no snark about that.)
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Of course they will also reduce bonuses, hire less, and cut costs.
It's a shame they can't go to the government (or Apple) and cut back on their taxes.
Actually, they can cut taxes. By moving to another jurisdiction. But one can't escape the Apple tax. Because Aple is a supranational authority.
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But one can't escape the Apple tax. Because Aple is a supranational authority.
Indeed. And while I'm extremely wary of not understanding real world consequences (as that's the mistake I always see fiscal liberals making), it seems obvious that if a lot of the stuff that could be characterized as "corporate rape" were illegal or widely considered immoral, large scale innovators would not exist. Of course the engineers would still be innovating, but there would not be sufficient corporate structure and investment to do anything with it. Someone might say that's no great loss, but I like
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(they're paying in the time their applications and devices don't work)
Re:This is a Mac OS problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Mac users pay nothing to resolve issues like this. There is no "Apple tax" to be paid here.
You are a stooge.
They pay in downtime, and in the effort required to identify and attempt to solve the problem. That could be significant, as I doubt the average user thinks "oh, my mouse isn't working properly - must be a certification problem".
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Re: This is a Mac OS problem (Score:2)
You mean just like the other countries will pay for the tariffs?
You sound like the realtor that told me I shouldn't worry about his 30% commission because the seller pays it.
In other words, like a total clown
Re: This is a Mac OS problem (Score:3, Interesting)
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HP finally said fuck it and forces everyone to use HP smart, it's probably applestore (iAccount required.) exclusive too... HP got sick of the apple tax but others don't even exist enough to be taxed, in the end user loses
HP has its own "forces everyone" policies on any OS. They're well known for it, especially on Slashdot.
I have no love for Apple, but I truly hate HP because they live by vendor lock-in and by the "you buy it but really we own it" model of fucking over customers.
HP is legendary for being a bag of dicks, so painting them as a victim of Apple probably won't get you much traction in these parts.
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I get discounts on TVs, phones, SSDs, etc , up to 50% off retail.
I also get education discounts on hardware/software , that also gives me good discounts , not just from Apple but most suppliers.
Apple has to run the servers , validate the software, run the accounting system, etc etc etc...Even for FREE Apps
And I also run a lot of open source software.
30% is quite reasonable in the retail market
Unlike MS, system sof
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"If you think your Mac is somehow Linux with a nice desktop and no tomfoolery, you're fooling yourself."
Who thinks that? And is Linux the "with tomfoolery" option?
Re:This is a Mac OS problem (Score:4, Informative)
Making installed apps stop working? What a controlling move, Apple. If you think your Mac is somehow Linux with a nice desktop and no tomfoolery, you're fooling yourself.
Unless Logitech did something very weird, this is likely to be a *major* bug.
The whole reason for Apple requiring app signing to use a timestamping service is so that bulls**t like this doesn't happen. Unless revoked, an app's signature is supposed to remain valid forever, so long the certificate was valid when the app was signed, even if the certificate has since expired. If that isn't happening, then Apple needs to fix the regression in its code signature validation.
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Re:This is a Mac OS problem (Score:4, Informative)
There's no such thing. Certs for code signing are issued by Apple and have a fixed validity period. Timestamping proves when the code was signed.
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Same app broke on Windows as well.
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Sorry, but you are wrong: right in the original article summary "Windows users were unaffected." I checked the website (https://www.logitechg.com/en-ph/innovation/g-hub.html): "THERE IS A KNOWN ISSUE WITH G HUB ON MACOS. CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO DOWNLOAD AN UPDATED INSTALLER." Both installers are right there. REPOST
Re: This is a Mac OS problem (Score:2)
Nope, it's UNIX with a castrated desktop. NeXTStep wasn't so stupid.
apple wants apple store only with the upto 30% cut (Score:2)
apple wants apple store only with the upto 30% cut
I stopped buying Logitech (Score:5, Insightful)
I only buy mice that have all configuration in the mouse itself and do not require any app or driver on the computer. Since I use both Linux and Windows machines via a KVM switch, that was a really easy decision. It was harder finding ones that match that requirement.
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Personal preference? Check out Redragon (https://redragon.com/) keyboards etc. I'm typing on YAMA K550. I use my KVM between OpenBSD, Linux, and Windows. Macros are stored in the keyboard and be recorded without host software. (Windows software is available, but not mandatory.) I have found the keyboard to be resilient. Their mice seem good also.
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Since I don't use macros on the keyboard (probably could not remember them), I just use cherry blue or khail gold (replaced by myself) with a metal base.
I do agree that if you use keyboard-macros they should definitely be stored in the keyboard, and a recording via the keyboard is a definite plus.
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Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind . . .
Which mice and/or brands do you use/prefer?
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I currently use a Razer Cobra because I needed a very light one for my wrist. I did rewire that one physically though and the defaults in the mouse work for me. That one may no fit my own policy, but It did not actually check.
Before I had a Cougar 250M. That one is fully programmable and it is all in the mouse itself. Shows up as mouse and keyboard.
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Thanks.
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Logitech can do this, but it's kind of buried. You have to create a GHub profile with the settings you want, then transfer them to the mouse's "on-board" settings. This disables the ability to dynamically switch multiple profiles depending on the app that's running, though.
Re:I stopped buying Logitech (Score:4, Informative)
I am using a Logitech keyboard and mouse right now. You don't have to install any special software to use them. They work just fine as a generic keyboard and mouse.
Their software is only required if you want to use custom special functions (programmable keyboard shortcuts). Everything else just works normally under Windows and Linux.
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I am aware. But proper X11 use requires a remapped middle button, since I am not going to press the scroll-wheel for pasting text. I also dropped Logitech like 10 years back or so and found no reason to go back.
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You need the logitech (or other) software if you want to use the 3rd, 4th and 5th buttons on their mice because while macos knows about them, it refuses to allow them to be configured in a useful way like scroll to the top or bottom of a page.
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Which mouses do you have? I just use basic optical mouses with three buttons and PS/2 and USB cables. I also use OmniCube KVM from Y2K!
A mouse requiring a certificate? (Score:2)
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Developer certificate.
Signed binaries, certificate expired, MacOS won't let binary execute.
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Developer certificate.
Signed binaries, certificate expired, MacOS won't let binary execute.
So if the developer goes out of business your apps stop working? That's almost as good as having sketchy cloud SaaS locally on your computer!
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No you just disable the option for the OS to require certificates for apps.
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Pretty much, yes.
AFAIR ctrl+click allows you to bypass gatekeeper when executing an app, but the Internet says that has been removed in Sequoia. (My last MacOS was Sonoma) Now it seems to be hidden somewhere in settings.
Why do you need third-party software for this? (Score:2)
Obviously you need software, like a mouse driver.
But, shouldn't all these features essentially be buttons. Shouldn't the OS be providing standardized interface to this?
I left windows for linux such a long time ago that news like this confuse me...
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For extra things like the forward and back buttons, you can, of course, remap them to do whatever you want. For example, if you're using X11, you can do this to make them control volume up/down:
1. Install xdotool and xbindkeys
2. Create ~/.xbindkeysrc thus:
-------
"xdotoo
Works on Linux (Score:2)
No problems with my ancient Logitech M557 on LInux.
Re: (Score:2)
No problems on my S100 bus CP/M machine either!
Huh? An Apple issue? I think not! (Score:2, Informative)
Some of the comments here show complete ignorance. The Logitech app for their mice has zero to do with Apple! Neither is it some "consequence of using a Mac". Logitech even said, right in the original article summary, that their Windows G-Hub application was also affected!
The real problem, as I see it, is that too many utilities or applications people traditionally assume are stand-alone actually function interactively with cloud servers. When an SSL certificate expires, things break.
You don't even really
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Some of the comments here show complete ignorance. The Logitech app for their mice has zero to do with Apple! Neither is it some "consequence of using a Mac". Logitech even said, right in the original article summary, that their Windows G-Hub application was also affected!
Actually, both the summary and Logitech's FAQ clearly say that Windows users are not affected.
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, my confusion was with this statement: " Logitech has since acknowledged the situation and said that its G Hub app -- a similar management software for gaming devices under the Logitech G brand -- was also affected."
As far as I was aware, all those G branded gaming devices and the related G Hub software was primarily Windows-centric. (Most gamers aren't using the Mac platform.)
I agree I made a false assumption there. But my original statements are still basically valid. In this instance, they're compl
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I work with both platforms on almost a daily basis, so I'm quite familiar with how Apple does things vs. the Microsoft way. And frankly, both suck, in different ways. In the world of Windows, they may have Windows executable certificates that never expire -- but they also have an OS that *constantly* breaks things in often totally unexpected ways. Look at the latest complaint about OneDrive prompting users to use it for backups on a new install, only to discover they can't turn the backups off again witho
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Sorry, but you are wrong: right in the original article summary "Windows users were unaffected." I checked the website (https://www.logitechg.com/en-ph/innovation/g-hub.html): "THERE IS A KNOWN ISSUE WITH G HUB ON MACOS. CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO DOWNLOAD AN UPDATED INSTALLER." Both installers are right there.
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Some of the comments here show complete ignorance. The Logitech app for their mice has zero to do with Apple!
Yes, it IS an Apple issue. Windows does not require Developer ID validation on every app startup.
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"too many utilities or applications people traditionally assume are stand-alone actually function interactively with cloud servers."
-1, offtopic
The expired certificate is not for communicating with cloud servers, it is for signing the binary as required by Apple.
Whether this is an Apple "issue" depends on whether you think a signing certificate needs to be valid at run time or only at install time.
The G Hub app is a pain (Score:2)
Logitech seems to really be going downhill (Score:2)
It's the same with their newer webcams - even basic functionality (e.g. zoom, focus) requires some clunky, slow, buggy "Logi"-branded application to be running all the time.
Probably because it saves them 4 or 5 cents a unit in manufacturing costs somehow...
The real problem (Score:2)
I'm guessing this allows Apple to decide which software the owner can use: Like Google is doing with Android OS. Either way, a hardware driver needs permission to work.
Why is hardware forced to expire? I get the security purpose of certificates but why the forced expiration? It's another form of forced obsolescence. I doubt anyone is making fake Logitech mice, there are easier ways to install malware.
The real problem is, my 6-button mouse needs a manager application to work while my 38 button j