Students Increasingly Choosing Community College or Certificates Over Four-Year Degrees (cnbc.com) 57
Enrollments in undergraduate certificate and associate degree programs both grew by about 2% in fall 2025, while enrollment in bachelor's degree programs rose by less than 1%, the report found. Community colleges now enroll 752,000 students in undergraduate certificate programs -- a 28% jump from just four years ago.
Overall, undergraduate enrollment growth was fueled by more students choosing to attend community college, the report found. "Community colleges led this year with a 3% increase, driven by continued rising interest in those shorter job-aligned certificate programs," said Matthew Holsapple, the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center's senior director of research.
For one thing, community college is significantly less expensive. At two-year public schools, tuition and fees averaged $4,150 for the 2025-2026 academic year, according to the College Board. Alternatively, at four-year public colleges, in-state tuition and fees averaged $11,950, and those costs at four-year private schools averaged $45,000.
A further factor driving this new growth is that Pell Grants are now available for job-training courses like certifications.
Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)
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America's system could be great if we got rid of ALL federal subsidies. Student loans are a horrible evil. Force the schools to fire all their useless staff and make programs that are actually worth their value. Student loans prevent all of that. They're a toxic mess, and they lead to entitled students who believe their bad decisions should be pa
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My daughter faces distinctly lower risks of death by suicide or overdose, or risk of sexual assault, or even risk of any number of substance use disorders or other mental health issues, than undergraduate students did in my day. Are you sure that's not worth something to me, and that absolutely none of it was caused by having university employees responsible for maintaining programs in those areas?
While you're at it, be sure not to account for increases in demand in a st
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It's a lot more complex than even that.
Small colleges can generally pay more attention to individual students, but can't afford really expensive tools. So many fields can't really be taught at a small college. (Computing used to be that way. Small schools would mail the programs the students had written in to a central site which would run them and mail the results back. Not a good learning environment.)
It's a simple question of weight ratios [Re:Duh!] (Score:3)
Non-instructional staff should not exceed a ratio of more than 1.25 times the number of bona fide instructional staff.
If this is too tight, I don't have a problem increasing the ratio slightly if those extra numbers are students on temporary work-study programs. (Supplemental janitors, library staff, IT staff, dining hall staff, etc.)
The 1.25 number is from eyeballing a bar graph at https://www.aei.org/education/how-many-administrators-do-colleges-have/ [aei.org]
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"make programs that are actually worth their value" Sure, we'll turn the actuaries loose on the Unis, they can put a price on your grandmother. So what do you figure is the "value" of a philosophy degree (if you think it has none, please learn some philosophy and join the post-Enlightenment civilization (we have an entrance exam so study hard) and not the current U.S. regime). How about language departments, we don't need no stinking other languages spoken in the U.S., since the U.S. has no need to trade wi
Re:Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)
First, let me state my opinions: we've got enough advanced education in the US, and we don't need any more. Half of our youngsters go to college. That's great. I'm all for education. The other half isn't interested or truly isn't ready for that level of academics. Why force them? College isn't for everyone. The world needs all sorts of people with different skillsets - academic skills is only one type of many.
Certificate programs and community colleges are incredibly beneficial. They should grow.
Now, to address your point directly. The whole thing about college being too expensive is mostly way off target. Here are a few facts about US college education:
1) A rock-solid college degree from a reputable mid-tier state school, with totally solid employment prospects, can be had for 40-50k, living expenses included. That's 4 frikkin years.
2) For comparison, most US families drive a car/truck/SUV that costs more than that. And most US families have two cars.
3) If a student looks like college material but they truly can't afford it, US universities are EXTREMELY generous with financial support. AKA, they reduce the price tag. I've seen this in real action. US universities are looking for students that can make through their programs. If they identify one, they will usually lower their prices to "whatever you can afford". This is a dirty secret in US higher education, so don't tell anyone.
4) Yeah, the top-ranked US universities charge more like 75-150k for the degree, but these are top-50 places, which means top 100 in the world, which means frikkin ELITE. Those places have labs and facilities that cost major money, which doesn't come out of nowhere.
5) I'm completely ignoring the ivy leagues and similar places. Those institutions are few, small, and they exist in a distorted space where the normal laws of physics don't apply. They affect so few people that they're best considered as anomalies.
6) All those European countries that provide free college education? That's not free. They pay for that with tax dollars. Who pays? The taxpayers. In other words, those countries are taxing their citizens, most of whom are middle and lower class, in order to provide free college to a bunch of students that mostly come from upper-middle and upper-class families. Plus, those countries don't let in nearly as many students. They're highly selective because they get hordes of applicants and admission is free. In other words, European countries are taxing MANY POOR PEOPLE in order to provide a benefit to A FEW RICH KIDS. It's amazing to me that liberals and progressivess think this is a great thing to emulate.
Most US universities are actually fairly good deals, in terms of what they charge and what they provide. However, we don't need to expand them. On the other hand, I totally agree that certificate and 2-year programs should grow by a lot.
Re:Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)
All those European countries that provide free college education? That's not free. They pay for that with tax dollars. Who pays? The taxpayers.
Firstly having a nation with college educated people is good for everyone rich to poor. Poor people need doctors, engineers and other professional people just as much the educated people need labor and tradesmen. It's the same exact reasoning everybody has to pay for K-12 education, it's in societies benefit top to bottom to have educated children regardless of their ability to pay. Also Europe has a much deeper system of apprenticeship for non-college careers (which is also covered)
Secondly this is a reason taxes are progressive and in Europe in particular their rates tend to be more progressive than the US. Proper progressive taxation means the wealthy people pay a larger percentage of that tax money so they should be paying the most and when they come out of school into high paying jobs they continue to pay that higher rate of taxes. Yes the poor pay as well but they pay less because they make less.
This line of thinking says nothing really about how we fund higher education where the question you are more getting at is how do we get more poor people into high education.
I fully agree on 2-years and certificates and if it were up to me those are covered just the same by a potential better funded higher-education system just as I would say that system should only cover community and state schools and not elite school tuition. We live in a world where some education after high school is necessary, let's just treat that like education in years prior to that.
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Again, if a student truly can’t afford it but has even half-decent grades, universities will waive as much as necessary to make it work. Need-based scholarships that completely waive tuition costs are not uncommon.
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Can you give some examples? I live in GA and researched a few. This is in-state tuition and living on campus with living expenses.
Kennessaw State - $28k/yr Georgia Southern - $18k/yr Georgia State - $29k/yr
I ballparked a few other states and all had higher costs than what I was seeing in GA if collegetuitioncompare.com
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I could not find anything in the range that was listed for a 4 year degree at an accredited university when living expenses were included.
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First, let me state my opinions: we've got enough advanced education in the US, and we don't need any more.
Well, thanks for leading with "Americans should be dumbshits" so we can just move on from your self-effacing screed.
Cost? (Score:5, Insightful)
Community colleges are a *hell* of a lot less expensive, and in some communities, they're free.
Meanwhile, outsourced HR departments, who have NO CLUE what the hiring managers actually need, keep asking for more and more useless and pointless certifications, *and* qualifications the managers don't need.
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At every company I've worked at, the hiring managers tell HR what the qualifications for the proposed role are.
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It's probably coming from management. HR is usually just an administrative function. They do what they are told. Real power comes from senior management, and they very often make unpopular decisions that get blamed on HR.
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If HR implements those decisions, then HR is a fair target for blame. Your argument only means that one shouldn't ONLY blame HR, and that's definitely correct. Management deserves the blame for every mistake that it doesn't rapidly correct.
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HR doesn't have a choice over whether to implement these policies. They can do what they've been told or be fired for refusing, and they management will hire someone who will do as they are told.
The dumbing down of America continues (Score:5, Informative)
When people get college educations, they get uppity and want bullshit like progress and rule of law. This gets in the way of the owner class's fun. Fuck that. Let's say how useless and wasteful college degrees are. When people stop getting educated, they're easier to control. In fact, they'll believe anything.
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Most colleges are not for profits. Some top admins make great livings, but they are not centimillionares fucking the rest of us over. Colleges have flaws, but the right massively overstates the flaws.
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"Staff" at a college are waxing the floors for minimum wage. It's fairly clear that you (1) do not know what the term "owner class" means, and (2) have no idea what happens on a college campus.
That's fine, but when you insist on commenting anyway, it makes you look dumb. Take it back to Facebook, and make sure to stay well clear of any voting booths on the way. (There could be trannies in there! Danger!)
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I'm in an engineering field. If I had a nickel for every time some "self-educated engineer" who "didn't need formal education" came up with a bright idea that violated the second law of thermodynamics......
I wouldn't be rich, but I would have a small jar of nickels.
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Then you'd be in the owner class, fucking the rest of us over.
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Incel much?
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Ya know who's not going to trade schools and community colleges? Rich people.
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You're in your parents' basement.
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Overall, our population is getting smarter, not dumber.
"smarts" can be trained up (within limits) and nearly everyone understands that smarter usually means more success. The few right-winger businessmen who flog
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A third of the US is college educated. Half of youngsters do college. Then, you add the 2-year and certificate education on top. The truth is that the younger generations are better educated and healthier, and thus probably straight-up smarter and harder working because of all these things.
Overall, our population is getting smarter, not dumber.
An alarming trend we're working hard to stop.
I Did This (Score:5, Interesting)
I did exactly this waaaay back in 1980. I went to the local community college instead of university. Like the OP said, it's much cheaper. I think I was paying $600/semester plus books and lodging. But when you're living at home like I was, it's really just books. I had to sell my Les Paul to pay for books one year - I wonder if a Les Paul these days can cover a semester's-worth of college books.
I was also in a highly desirable specialty - computer programming - so I had a job before I got out. If you're in a highly-desirable area these days, college instead of other options can make very good sense!
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Les Paul prices are probably the worst thing to compare it to. If you had a '59 Les Paul, it might be worth 10x its original price today, 5 figures. By the 80s they had so many different "Les Pauls" that it varies widely whether it's appreciated or not. And if you want a *new* Les Paul today, you're looking at anywhere from a few hundred up to $5k and beyond for a Custom Shop model.
The guitar market is basically at "How much do you want to pay?" - And it's an open secret those multi-thousand-dollar Gibson
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I wasn't expecting a guitar enthusiast to respond to that, but since you did...
It was a 1975 Les Paul Standard with a tabacco sunburst finish. Nothing super-special, but I think I got $800 bucks for it.
Keep on rockin!
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I think I was paying $600/semester plus books and lodging.
I paid about that for a semester's tuition at a top 100 4 year Land Grant university in 1980.
starting college vs overall college: a distinction (Score:5, Insightful)
As an example (and I'm aware it's one point, but I'm not making a data argument, just an example to clarify what I mean), my sister was kind of a fuckup in high school. She ended up going to community college ... for two years, and the to university for two years, and then to law school until she got her JD.
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Be careful this. Sure, stuff will transfer. But, that won't mean you get two years off your four year degree.
Why?
Because for most majors, there are specialized courses for that major that will happen during the first two years: often ones that are needed for upper level third and fourth year classes. Two year schools don't offer them. So, transfer students often spend their first year catching up on such courses (eg, sophomore level special relativity and quantum mechanics for a physics major), then th
Market forces but maybe not those market forces? (Score:2)
While the past five years of college price rises are nominally less than inflation, they’re taking up an ever larger chunk of discretionary spending (discretionary = what’s leftover after rent, food, and other necessities).
So the rise in community college popularity arguably isn’t really because community colleges are cheaper per se - or at least that’s not the root cause - it’s that folks have less money to burn.
It's a trade off (Score:2)
I was in university through the mid 80s getting my BSCS, which is still all I have. Certifications weren't really a thing then, so community college would have been the other option. And while it would have been less expensive, I'm sure the ones around here wouldn't have had the resources that my university had -- large mainframe, numerous PCs, a VAX 11/785 running 4.3BSD, Sun servers/workstations and a Xerox 1108 LISP workstation, on which I did work for a NASA grant on automated programming techniques.
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Except, nowadays, if you don't know what you want to do then going to a traditional 4-year university is an absolute and complete waste of money. The inflation-adjusted cost of a 4-year degree has, on average, tripled since the 80s. You probably either didn't take on much debt, or only a very small amount, that was able to be quickly paid off. If you went to college now to do roughly the same exact courses (modernized where necessary), you'd be in more debt after one year than all 4 years of the 80s. At the
So another news (Score:4, Informative)
This is your monthly reminder that when baby boomers went to college the government paid 70% of tuition and now the government pays 20%.
Also remember rich people are constantly reminding you that your kids don't need to go to college but do they skip college for their kids?
These are the questions someone who thinks critically will ask. Remember that thinking critically is about questioning the information you are being given.
And the boomers planned to make us all (Score:1)
Starve to death Jesus Christ I hate all of them and can't wait until they all dead. They are the direct cause for all our problems. There's a growing problem with baby boomers who just want to kill somebody and they're old so they decide what the hell I'm going to shoot a random person on my property and see if I get away with it and if I don't who cares if I die in prison I'm only going to be alive for a few more years. You keep seeing kids wandering on to somebody's property playing hide and seek and gett
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They [boomers] are the direct cause for all our problems.
I'd hazard to guess that you never went to college and never learned much history or how to look up basic statistics. It was the parents of the boomers who elected the likes of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. In 2024, men under 30 voted for Trump by 16 points (41 percent Harris – 57 percent Trump). Bottom line is that the generations previous to the boomers as well as those who came after are every bit as responsible for the mess we are in as the boomers. There is nothing special about the boomers. T
Makes sense (Score:3)
In a world where we're expecting to need to retrain every 15-20 years, why would you saddle yourself with the kind of debt that a University degree demands.
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I think it's now every 5-10 years. OTOH, it *does* depend on the extent of retraining required.
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I don't think people are going to be able to retire if they are retraining every 5-10 years. Maybe that's the goal, get all of us to work for peanuts until we drop dead.
Why do you think? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's insane that the routine expectation is for an 18 year old still in high school to commit to 5 figures of debt before they've even had their first real job (no, McD's doesn't count as a real job). Even moreso that it's the one debt that cannot be discharged by bankruptcy.
Insane to the point that any councillor or teacher that tells them it's fine should be fired for educational malpractice.
Further the schools that re-assuringly pat the kids on the back and tell them it's OK because they'll get a high paying job due to their degree should be forced to eat the loss when a student graduates with a degree and can't do better than Starbucks.
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Is that really the expectation for all/most high schoolers, or is it a less common expectation that somehow people get fixated on? I have to hope that counselors/teachers take students' abilities and interests into account when suggesting a path.
Although for some students (ie- those bright+motivated enough
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It IS an insane expectation even for talented high schoolers. It MIGHT work out for them, but they have zero real world experience to base a decision for that kind of financial commitment.
Consider, ever where you are in your life right now, are you prepared to commit to a debt of 10-20 times your lifetime earnings so far? Now consider that you have years more experience in financial matters than a high school senior.
It's especially insane given that it wasn't that long ago that working through school was a
Go to a community college or State university... (Score:3)
were tuition is low, and credits are easily transferable to a more prestigious university. Instead of doing 4 years at high tuition costs, do 3 years low cost low profile, and 2 years at a high profile university, so that you graduate "from them" and their name is in your degree.
Not only is this cheaper, but, if you discover in years 1 ~ 3 that maybe this was not the career for you, pivoting to something else is less expensive.