New York Introduces Legislation To Crack Down On 3D Printers That Make Ghost Guns (3dprintingindustry.com) 156
New York Governor Kathy Hochul is proposing first-of-its-kind legislation that would require 3D printers sold in the state to include built-in software designed to block the printing of gun parts used to make "ghost guns." The plan would also add criminal penalties for making 3D-printed firearms and hold printer owners or manufacturers liable if safety controls aren't in place. 3D Printing Industry reports: "From the iron pipeline to the plastic pipeline, these proposals will keep illegal ghost guns off of New York streets, and enhance measures to track and block the production of dangerous and illegal firearms in our state," Hochul said.
In addition to mandating printer-level safeguards and restricting access to CAD files, the proposed legislation would require law enforcement agencies to report any recovered 3D printed firearms to a statewide database. The measure also includes a provision requiring commercial gun manufacturers to redesign pistols so they cannot be easily converted for automatic fire. "These illegal firearms are being manufactured in homes and used in crimes right now, which is why I have been working with my colleagues in Albany and the private sector over the past several years to stop their proliferation. Passing these measures will reduce crime and strengthen public safety for all New Yorkers," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
In addition to mandating printer-level safeguards and restricting access to CAD files, the proposed legislation would require law enforcement agencies to report any recovered 3D printed firearms to a statewide database. The measure also includes a provision requiring commercial gun manufacturers to redesign pistols so they cannot be easily converted for automatic fire. "These illegal firearms are being manufactured in homes and used in crimes right now, which is why I have been working with my colleagues in Albany and the private sector over the past several years to stop their proliferation. Passing these measures will reduce crime and strengthen public safety for all New Yorkers," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: Why? (Score:2)
Mostly for self-protection reasons since the types of people you mentioned would be the first to seriously piss someone off.
Mass Distraction. (Score:3)
It is about control. People, especially bureaucrats, just love to be able to tell other people what they can or cannot do. They breathe and eat this power.
This is about control alright, but it’s the control bureaucrats have and want to keep. By abusing Weapons of Mass Distraction like this ghost gun bullshit. Kathy Hochul can’t even enforce law and prevent actual crime. The hell makes anyone think they’re going to police CAD file access? Give me a break. The more absurd the suggested lockdown, the more obvious it’s a Mass Distraction designed to keep the masses busy.
I can already see 3D print vendors thinking about stopping sales
Re: Why? (Score:2)
Define 'Ghost Guns'...
Is a ghost gun a gun that can go undetected by a magneto-scope (metal detector), or is it a gun without a serial number, handmade by an individual?
How is a 3-D printer going to know it's making a gun part? HOW? Will the government provide model patterns your printer needs to lookout for? Will we get weekly updates to keep the printer up-to-date? This is moronic, it makes no sense and can't be done. This makes as much sense as 'smart guns' that magically only work in the registered owne
Re: Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Define 'Ghost Guns'...
Is a ghost gun a gun that can go undetected by a magneto-scope (metal detector), or is it a gun without a serial number, handmade by an individual?
The latter. Only in Hollywood can Bruce Willis the cop get paranoid about some perp breaking down a “invisible” ceramic Glock 7 at the security checkpoint to hide it in a keychain in order to sneak it past Clint Eastwood the Secret Service Senior Citizen, so you can try and kill The Big Guy.
How is a 3-D printer going to know it's making a gun part? HOW? Will the government provide model patterns your printer needs to lookout for? Will we get weekly updates to keep the printer up-to-date? This is moronic, it makes no sense and can't be done. This makes as much sense as 'smart guns' that magically only work in the registered owners hand, or the 'Micro-engraved' bullets so we can identify the person that bought the ammo...
Will any reporter ask NY lawmakers HOW this will be enforced?
Will anyone ask why citizens keep falling for Weapons of Mass Distraction? As if the ‘smart guns’ and ‘micro-engraved bullets’ programs weren’t obvious enough? The short answer is the machine won’t know. And legislators won’t care about this law eventually including ‘weapons’ parts printing. Which essentially means any 3D printed part that looks scary enough to a grown-ass liberal child. Argued all the way up to SCOTUS in 3 months. And the Distraction rages on..
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Here in Georgia, you don't need a permit unless you want to do concealed carry, and that one is cheap and easy to get.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
It is legal to manufacture your own firearms (Score:5, Informative)
You might want to actually research this before you make the claim, as it is you who is "100% incorrect."
ATF webpage on Privately Made Firearms [atf.gov].
Privately made firearms (PMFs) are firearms (including a frame or receiver) that have been completed, assembled or otherwise produced by a person other than a licensed manufacturer. PMFs are also made without a serial number placed by a licensed manufacturer at the time the firearm was produced. However, not all PMFs are illegal and not all firearms are required to have a serial number. ATF has compiled some information on the different types of PMFs and things to consider while owning one.
Things to Consider
Individuals who make their own firearms may use a 3D printing process or any other process, as long as the firearm is “detectable” as defined in the Gun Control Act. You do not have to add a serial number or register the PMF if you are not engaged in the business of making firearms for livelihood or profit.
While there's obviously more to this, I can legally make a firearm myself, using a 3D printer as desired and technically feasible, so long as there's enough metal in it to trigger a metal detector (that's the Gun Control Act detectable requirement). Generally a metal barrel and chamber is more than enough for this.
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
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Let's start with the basic issues though.
There's absolutely no reason you would need to make a gun that suffers the short-comings that you're referring to. I have absolutely no interest in owning a gun of any type, but I believe that if I wanted
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First off, I wouldn't bother with a 3d printed gun.
Since the topic is 3D-printed guns, and you're not intelligent enough to stay on topic, then no reason to consider the rest of your drivel seriously.
It's a little too redneck for me.
You told us enough about your circle to know that "too redneck" for you is hardly just a little redneck :)))
Although your belief that the 20 minutes of LLM generated junk qualifies you for anything is also telling :)
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Yeah as an aussie I'm *perplexed* at Americans love of guns. Its weird to me, particularly since I did actually grow up around them as a rural kid in the 70s and 80s. But they where always just tools
HOWEVER. The banning of every possible way to make a gun seems misguided. If I wanted to do a rambo, sure I'd struggle to get a gun (presumably I'd be too unhinged to pass the cop test here to get one). But thats OK, I grew up a teen in the 80s and I know 101 ways to blow shit up, because my childhood was pre 9/
Re: Why? (Score:3, Informative)
"When the 2AM pounding on the door of the family home becomes louder and more violent with more thugs showing up to take what they want from you" ... Then it will be the government knocking and the guns won't help.
How? (Score:5, Insightful)
Having the restriction on copying or printing money was easy - currency is well defined, so has a pattern that can be matched against. It succeeded because the restriction was on something that the government controlled the design of anyway (the restriction was only on US currency).
A gun? Theres basically an infinite number of ways this could be designed and printed. Theres no fucking way printer-level restrictions can ever succeed.
This is performative legislation which will accomplish nothing other than allowing for more charges or legal action. It wont prevent a single gun from being printed.
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Not to mention that CAD files aren't used for 3D printing. 3D printing needs far more detailed instructions than CAD files provide, though they can be used as a starting point.
It might also run into 1st amendment issues. I could see a court even considering the 2nd for it.
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Anyone wanting to build a gun really only needs some basic metal-working handtools and
set of plans [waghornswood.net.nz].
I know I'd much rather have a Sten gun than a 3d-printed "one time use/explode" one.
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Obviously, the answer to "how will this work?" is AI. It's always AI.
Bird is supposedly rolling out scooters that use AI to determine if you're riding them on the sidewalk. It doesn't matter if it actually works well, it's something regulators asked for, and that's how the game is played.
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Obviously, the answer to "how will this work?" is AI. It's always AI.
For some very limited definition of "work", wherein the 3D printer constantly fails with cryptic error messages and refuses to print anything that even vaguely looks like it could be a gun component, resulting in everyone just black-market importing stock-firmware versions from China.
Or for some very limited definition of "work", wherein it misses 99.999% of all actual gun components.
Or, more likely, all of the above.
Re: How? (Score:2)
How will the 3-D printer identify offending parts? Don't just say AI and think you've answered the question. Will each 3-D printer be required to have their own AI engine running locally, with gov't mandated updates as new designs become known to better train the AI?
Re:How? (Score:4, Informative)
It's not even comparable.
Printers have a degree of smarts built into the hardware and/or driver. You can send them a Postscript file generally, which is an image format. So yes, they could match it up against some kind of pattern for currency.
3D printers do not operate that way whatsoever. They recieve raw instructions in GCode that describes specifically how to move the print head around and what to extrude. The printer itself knows nothing about anything. It would not be able to match any kind of pattern.
You could do this in THE SLICER SOFTWARE, which runs on the PC, but NOT the printer. Now, enforcing people to do it in the slicer becomes more complicated because slicers are all open-source and can be downloaded from anywhere.
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This really depends on the printer. Older printers, sure, they just accept gcode or the custom format for resin printers, and deal with each layer as they get to it. Dont need anything complicated for that as the OS.
But newer printers.
My Creality K1s all run a full Linux server, for example - you can root it, replace it, SSH into it. And given the K1s are running on Marlin firmware, this isnt a unique setup. During printing they are adapting to temperatures, bed alignments etc on the fly as well.
My HeyGea
Re: How? (Score:2)
Newer printers do a lot more than they used to.
Really? Because a printer can regulate its nozzle temperature and you can SSH into it that 'proves' it can identify parts that might be used in a gun design?
I think not - I can SSH into a modern residential thermostat, that proves nothing.
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They do a lot more, but they still don't slice, so the exact same problem is still there: how are you gonna detect toolpaths that are gonna create a gun?
hope the user named it gun.gcode?
Re: How? (Score:2)
Your KT isnjust as dumb as ecery other printer. The slicer is run on the PC.
With what processor? (Score:5, Informative)
Most 3D printers run off cheap microcontrollers that don't have to do anything more than follow a set of CNC instructions provided to them. They couldn't detect an attempt to print a gun even if they wanted to.
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Most 3D printers run off cheap microcontrollers that don't have to do anything more than follow a set of CNC instructions provided to them. They couldn't detect an attempt to print a gun even if they wanted to.
Not to mention that 3D printers are frequently a DIY item - people build their own all the time. So good luck with enforcing the restriction, unless New York legislation can somehow mandate that every microcontroller and computer in existence conform to their fantasy.
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So the point of stuff like this isn't regulation (Score:2)
It is similar to what Donald Trump was convicted of. The laws that were used to convict Donald Trump are about falsifying business
ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:5, Insightful)
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens [theonion.com]
Re:ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, mostly because this isn't the right way to go about regulating homemade guns. With current 3D printing technology, the only sort of fully 3D printed gun that you can make is a plastic "zip gun". Thing is, you've always been able to make those with hardware store parts, if your goal is to build an inaccurate single shot pistol.
The truth behind 3D printed semi-automatic Glock clones (and similar firearms) is that they're being built through a legal loophole, where the majority of gun parts aren't subject to the same purchasing requirements as if you were buying the single component that is considered a gun - the receiver or frame. So, you 3D print that part and then buy the rest of the "gun" from online stores that legally aren't required to make sure you're eligible to own a gun. If gun part purchases were subject to the same ID and background check requirements as buying a completed gun, this loophole would be closed and nobody would bother trying to 3D print guns.
It's also probably worth mentioning that even without a 3D printing loophole, criminals will still probably find ways to get their hands on guns, so that's an entirely separate issue.
Re:ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. Mexico has far more stringent gun laws than the USA, has only 1 legal gun store (as of last time I checked), ownership of military calibers is forbidden (so no 9mm or 5.56 for the people). Cartels still have huge amounts of firearms, including machine guns. While US firearms are popular for handguns and niche weapons, lots are running around with actual AK line weapons (full auto/select fire), and the police have found the cartels to be manufacturing weapons as well.
Re:ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:5, Funny)
Cartels still have huge amounts of firearms, including machine guns.
Hahahahaaha. Haha. Ha. Yeah, I wonder where they get them from?
"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, 94,000 weapons were recovered from Mexican drug cartels in the five years between 2006 and 2011, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent, according to Jim Moran -- come from the United States." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Now how many of those serial numbers were of guns sold to the Mexican military and law enforcement? Anything full auto certainly was, as they sure ain't fucking paying the 10k minimum to get a pre-86 gun in the US.
Re:ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:5, Informative)
The 70% figure is a misstatement. 70% of the guns Mexico's government submits to the USA for tracing are successfully traced to the USA.
Trick is, Mexico only submits a fraction of the guns they collect. They don't submit weapons they trace to their own forces and store, weapons they know are from elsewhere, like the full auto AK-47 and 74 rifles with Russian and similar stampings, stuff obviously made in China or South America.
The whole paragraph citing the 70% figure.
"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, 94,000 weapons were recovered from Mexican drug cartels in the five years between 2006 and 2011, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent, according to Jim Moran -- come from the United States."[26] The percentages pertaining to the origin of weapons confiscated from organized crime and drug cartels may not be accurately reported. Said numbers represent only firearms Mexican authorities asked the US to trace (7,200 firearms) and that the ATF was able to trace (4,000 on file, of which 3,480 from US). US ATF Mexico City Office informed Mexican authorities ATF had eTrace data only on firearms made in or imported into the US and told them not to submit firearms that lacked US maker or US importer marks as required by US law. The guns submitted for tracing were only firearms that appeared to be US origin. The remaining guns were not submitted for tracing, or were not able to be traced. "In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States."
Firearms confiscated: 94,000
Submitted for trace: 7,200, 7.7%
Successfully traced to the USA: 3,480. 48% of 7,200, 3.7% of the 94,000 collected.
That is far less than 70%, to the point that saying 70% is in the realm of deliberate misinformation.
All this indicates is that the Mexican government has a good idea of what weapons came from the USA. High quality handguns, semi auto weapons, firearms with serial numbers.
They don't bother with weapons obviously manufactured without serial numbers or that they knew were made elsewhere, like the full auto AK series.
Re: ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:3)
Yes, we all remember Fast & Furious government program that forced FFL holders to sell guns to known straw buyers buying guns to ship into Mexico - a program which had ZERO ability to track those illegally purchased guns once they entered Mexico, and was a campaign conducted without alerting the Mexican government.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27... [cnn.com]
Re: ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:2)
https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27... [cnn.com]
You can completely 3D print a working 1911 (Score:2)
Actually, the plastic zip gun is the best somebody can do with a relatively cheap plastic or resin type printer.
Using industrial metal printers, like what Boeing and other airline manufacturers are using to make select parts, it is possible to print a fully functional handgun. I remember reading an article where they printed and tested a 1911 using one. All metal parts.
That said, not a lot of us are running around with a $100k and up printer, so it isn't that much of a factor, at least for now. The noble
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The truth behind 3D printed semi-automatic Glock clones (and similar firearms) is that they're being built through a legal loophole, where the majority of gun parts aren't subject to the same purchasing requirements as if you were buying the single component that is considered a gun - the receiver or frame. So, you 3D print that part and then buy the rest of the "gun" from online stores that legally aren't required to make sure you're eligible to own a gun.
And online sites such as PCBWay do both 3D printing and CNC machining. I don't know if they have any policies in place regarding refusal to print or machine certain things; but even if they do, there's a good chance that any such design could be made in smaller pieces that might not be readily recognizable as gun parts.
Between the parts that you can legally buy, and the ability to have parts machined in China and shipped to you, it might be possible to make an all-metal gun which no official gun manufacture
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I'm sure you could get the machine shop down the street to do the same thing if you put your mind to it. But you'd have to put your mind to it. You couldn't just download some plans, buy the unrestricted bits and print off the restricted parts on your $300 printer.
Realistically, even that latter bit is probably too much work to actually be a problem. Especially when you can just look in Dad's nightstand.
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Not really. I work with machine shops on a regular basis and they know the issue and don't want anything to do with something that could put them in a federal prison.
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Tell us more about this "loophole." It seems to me that it's the anti-gun laws which are using the Commerce Clause as a loophole for the "shall not be infringed" part.
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I think the issue is more that there are probably a 1000 better ideas they could implement first before coming to this bogus impossible to actually implement idea...
A ban on guns is a ban on manufacturing... (Score:2)
A firearm is a machine made up of discreet parts, many of which can either be sourced online without restriction in the United States (barrels, springs, slides, non-receiver frame, stock), or manufactured in a basic home workshop (basically just the receiver).
Other countries ban all firearm parts, or critical parts like barrels. The US has a particular regime that only recognizes the receiver as the actual "firearm" at a federal level. I'm not up on the current ins and outs of state laws, but to the best
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Ok, the proposed law is even more about thought control than just imposing a censorship regime on the printer:
"It would also make it a crime to possess or share the digital design files used to produce 3D printed firearms unless the individual has appropriate authorization."
In other words, it would defacto impose a gun manufacturing license requirement on anyone who even wants to have a cad file for a firearm.
So, some questions (not having read the actual text of the law) - would this then be applicable to
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The Sten submachinegun from WWII was once described as "a series of tubes."
Which is basically exactly what it is. A few tubes, a trigger, and a magazine.
Anyone calling to ban 3D-printed guns without banning metal tubing is just playing for votes with a law that will only ever be selectively enforced and certainly won't be effective.
Re: A ban on guns is a ban on manufacturing... (Score:2)
Prisoners call them "zip guns"
WW2 resistance fighters had shitty stamped-metal single-use guns that basically destroyed themselves when fired.
Aren't there something like 300 million guns in circulation in the U.S., anyone that wants a gun can get one, what's the benefit of printing one?
regulating the wrong part (Score:2)
lower receiver is no longer the hard part to DIY. It's the barrel. they need to start regulating the barrel, not the lower receiver. easy fix.
Regulations aren’t thought through (Score:2)
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Barrels are a wear part, I've replaced two so far.
As for hard to build, rifled barrels predate bolt-action rifles by centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Some of the earliest recorded European attempts of spiral-grooved musket barrels were of Gaspard Kollner, a gunsmith of Vienna in 1498 and Augustus Kotter of Nuremberg in 1520."
The military didn't use them as they fouled easily with black powder. But they were common in civilian use by the French and Indian war if not sooner.
Another point to remembe
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Barrels are a wear part, I've replaced two so far.
So what, are you trying to turn this into a gun of Theseus philosophical question? When your barrel is done you simply buy another with the new serial number and it legally is another gun. Buy extra barrels and it’s just extra guns there really aren’t limits as to the number of guns you can own. Homemade barrels have no accuracy and there is so much blow by that the bullet has insanely slow velocity to the point of barely working. No one is limiting the number of barrels here, just marking
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There are videos on Youtube where someone makes a working, decently accurate pistol barrel out of a metal bolt with a few tools. It's been a solved problem for a long time.
Rifle barrels not so much, but criminals usually want pistols, not rifles.
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Welcome to the... (Score:2)
...moronosphere
It's impossible for printer software to accurately determine if a part is a gun part
Expect a lot of false positives
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And BIOS/software patches to remove it entirely. Yo-ho and a bottle of rum.
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They assume 3d printers are made by monoliths like HP or Canon. There is software in 2d printers that will prevent you from printing currency with an ink jet, which is probably where they got this idea from. The issue is that a lot of 3d printers are more Macgyver than mass produced product. In addition there is the obvious issue of "prohibition only creates black markers" and all the "unregulated" Prusa and Bamboo Labs printers will just be imported to New Jersey.
I agree this is stupid, New York's attem
Why are almost all politicians so clueless? (Score:2)
"Passing these measures will reduce crime and strengthen public safety for all New Yorkers," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
No. No, they really won't. From an economics perspective, ghost guns are merely a substitution of a less expensive good for a more expensive good. Nothing more. Therefore, if you somehow miraculously manage to prevent 3D printing of gun parts, they'll just go back to wood or whatever they used before. Or they will 3D print moulds and then pour liquid into the moulds
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" E. collapsing the profitability of illegal drug sales through marijuana legalization, "
Washington State tried that. It failed.
"F. providing better financial support for the poor so that young people are not so easily tempted to join gangs."
Teenagers don't join gangs due to lack of financial support. They want to belong to the "in" group.
"requiring people to store their firearms in locked safes when they are not physically present to dry up the sale of stolen firearms,"
Didn't help.
"D. massively increasing
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" E. collapsing the profitability of illegal drug sales through marijuana legalization, "
Washington State tried that. It failed.
None of these things work in isolation. You have to do a large percentage of them.
"F. providing better financial support for the poor so that young people are not so easily tempted to join gangs."
Teenagers don't join gangs due to lack of financial support. They want to belong to the "in" group.
Lots of gangs are involved in dealing drugs or other criminal activities. Better financial support makes that less interesting, and also opens up opportunities for doing lots of other activities that make people feel included, all of which can reduce the rate of gang membership. It isn't a complete solution, but there's a very significant correlation between poverty and gang membership, so arguing that it won't help is at b
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Criminals don't make their own guns. They just buy them illegally.
It's possibly worth nothing that the Sullivan Act of 1911 which brought "gun control" to New York was pushed by a politician who was owned by the criminal gangs, because the gangs didn't think it was fair that their victims were armed and could shoot back.
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Criminals don't make their own guns. They just buy them illegally.
Yeah, and that was the point of B. above. Illegal firearms have to come from somewhere. If they aren't making them, then either they are stealing them or they are buying them from someone else who made them or stole them. If firearms have to be locked up under penalty of jail time, and if gun stores have to have guns in locked cabinets at night under penalty of jail time, the opportunities for stealing guns decrease dramatically, which should significantly reduce the supply of illegally bought firearms.
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I'm afraid that just like most regulation the impracticality of enforcement is about the practicality of a class line. below the line is where the users of the technology will eat the cost of having regulated stuff that does not work as well in general, so everybody wins......
The computing power inside a 3D printer is mostly microcontroller-class. Doing this would require enough computing power to generate a 3D model from G-Code (which is computationally nontrivial), then run large AI models against the result (which is even more nontrivial).
I would not be surprised if doing this in an offline fashion adds $10k or more to the cost of a 3D printer.
Doing it in an online fashion would violate privacy and corporate security and would still add massively to the cost of the printer.
S
What about new designs? (Score:2)
Kathy Hochul is a fucking moron (Score:2)
And it will require some private AI tech she owns (Score:2)
Tell me you know zero about how 3D printers work (Score:2)
3D printers consume a set of GCode, which is raw instructions of where to move the XY axis, how much to output, and when to move the Z axis.
They know ZERO about what is being printed, and their compute is so low they would have ZERO ability to do any such analysis. All of that level of smarts is contained in THE SLICER, which is a set of software that takes in a 3D model and turns it into GCode for a specific printer based on user controls.
You could in theory have this legislation target SLICER SOFTWARE, li
Do politicians all get lobotomies when they run? (Score:2)
Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:2)
Since the introduction of ghost guns, homicides have been on the decline.
Does that mean ghost guns are responsible?
No. It's more likely that homicide rates are declining in spite of ghost guns, not because of them.
A larger percentage of gun crimes are being committed with ghost guns.
Does that mean ghost guns are responsible for gun crimes?
Again no. It's more likely that people who commit crimes decide to use ghost guns than people who have ghost guns decide to commit crimes.
If you don't like the second am
Re: Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:2)
Please, define a ghost gun.
How does requiring a gun to have a serial number keep them out of the hands of undesirables?
Oh, it means guns that can't be detected by a metal detector? That's already a law, how does this change anything?
If I go into my workshop and build one of these unregistered, undetectable guns, how will anyone know what I've done until I use it in the commission of a crime?
Are they going to forbid/regulate pipes? (Score:2)
AFAICT 50 dollers worth of stuff from the hardware store makes a pretty useful gun aswell. Much quicker and way more effective than any 3D printed piece of semi-plastic ever could. Are they going to regulate who can buy pipes? Sounds kinda dumb this attempt at a law.
Unenforceable, unimplementable (Score:2)
3D printers don't even require speci
Re:Bullet (Score:5, Funny)
how about bullet control?
We have gun ranges where you can practice getting the bullet to go where you want it to.
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I'm not an American, I find this firearm frenzy confusing. I know I'm not the first to ask this, but I'm still looking for a good answer: how about bullet control?
In a society where "muh gunz" is a fundamental part of the social fabric, even controlling the availability of bullets probably wouldn't help much. It would make them a LOT more expensive; but among outright theft, stock "miscounts", bullets that "fell off the back of the truck", and the ability to (expensively) make your own bullets, people WOULD get their precious ammo.
Not to mention that efficient and well-oiled (pun intended) drug-running networks would just add bullets made in other countries to their
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I read a quote once from a security pundit that if he wanted to smuggle a nuclear device into the US he would just stash it in a bale of marijuana. Seems apt
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The gun craze goes back nearly to the beginning. In fact Jules Vernes even wrote a somewhat famous book satirizing the gun craze.
Re:Bullet (Score:5, Informative)
You can cast your own bullets. It's a popular hobby especially for handguns. I do it myself for lower velocity rifle loads.
You can also machine solid copper or silver bullets on a lathe.
If you mean cartridge control as in the loaded ammunition then you might get somewhere, but remember black powder is easily made at home.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
That will kill you just as dead as a modern 9mm.
All in all reducing crime would benefit more from executing drug dealers than from harassing the innocent which is all gun control will ever achieve.
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Yeah but all those things are a MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE barrier to entry.
You can do it. I've never tried but I expect I could since I know my way around a lathe and my job is engineering. But a substantial number of people really can't tell one end of a screwdriver from another. There just are not enough people with those skills for it to be a problem.
Look, I live in the UK where gun (and ammo) control is really strict. Having read that guy's article on ECMing rifling grooves with a 3D printed mandrel, I
Re:Bullet (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole issue is written into the constitution of our nation, where it identifies gun ownership (as a means of self defense) as a right. The Supreme Court went further and included all sorts of essential gun oriented things as part of that right. They eliminated the very loophole that you suggested as an "answer".
In short, there is only one answer that satisfies the needs that people that are against guns have, and that is to change the constitution.
That takes a supermajority of the people and the states working together to pull off.
As far as this being a "frenzy", there are only about 20% of the US population that have that opinion. Half the population want to protect the law, Many want stricter laws, but when politics enters the equation everything seems to get complicated quickly.
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You're correct of course. Although it's pretty clear the original intent of the amendment was to allow states to have self-defence militias, which were common in the 1800s. The Supreme Court has obviously expanded the original meaning to what it is today over the last 150 years.
It might be that only 20% of the US population thinks it's a frenzy, but America's gun culture is recognized widely across the world, so much so that Jules Vernes wrote a famous novel satirizing it.
Re:Bullet (Score:4, Informative)
If the 2nd Amendment was mean to allow the militia to have guns, it would have said "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms" and not "the right of the people to keep and bear arms."
It's quite clear that it was always meant to allow individuals to own any kind of weapon they wanted. People often owned their own cannon when it was written, and the Constitution implicitly assumes that people would own private warships which could be issued with Letters of Marque.
18th century America was run by men, and men laugh at the idea of not being allowed to own guns. Particularly people who were OK with private warships.
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If the 2nd Amendment was mean to allow the militia to have guns, it would have said "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms" and not "the right of the people to keep and bear arms."
It's quite clear that it was always meant to allow individuals to own any kind of weapon they wanted. People often owned their own cannon when it was written, and the Constitution implicitly assumes that people would own private warships which could be issued with Letters of Marque.
18th century America was run by men, and men laugh at the idea of not being allowed to own guns. Particularly people who were OK with private warships.
However, if you look at the laws in place at the time, they also seemed to be OK with regulating firearms, since there were requirements to muster and register arms, limits on how and where you could store powder, even ownership was restricted, etc. If one wants toa rgue the founders were in favor of guns you can also argue they were in favor of regulation.
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I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials. - George Mason
The Supremes haven't expanded the original meaning, the anti-gun nuts have tried to shrink it to exclude the people.
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You're correct of course. Although it's pretty clear the original intent of the amendment was to allow states to have self-defence militias, which were common in the 1800s. The Supreme Court has obviously expanded the original meaning to what it is today over the last 150 years.
It's so clear that the supreme court disagrees with you. As you mention in your third sentence.
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> From the text you are allowed to use a gun only as a member of a militia.
Only if you don't understand English grammar.
Unfortunately that's probably at least 2/3 of the population these days.
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Re: Bullet (Score:2)
Bullet control?
Making/reloading your own rounds is a thing, and aside from trying to tax ammo into unaffordability, the other option folks like to propose is Micro-engraving serial numbers on bullets - another practical impossibility.
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It will work about as well as the 3,504,949,394 gun laws. CRIMINALS don't obey the laws.
Some gun laws *do* work, but only gun laws that work by restricting non-criminals in ways that make it harder for criminals to get guns.
But this particular law is completely abs
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Canada pretty much has all of those things. Barrels don't need serial numbers but I believe they can now only legally be bought after showing a gun license.
Yet three or four years ago a couple were busted in Alberta for making MAC-10 submachineguns and selling them to criminals.
Even in the UK, which has much stricter laws than that, a group were busted a few years ago making handguns in their little gun factory and only discovered because they were dumb enough to test-fire them where the neighbours could he
Re: DUH! Won't work (Score:2)
Yet three or four years ago a couple were busted in Alberta for making MAC-10 submachineguns and selling them to criminals.
Of course, anyone illegally buying a gun is a criminal - they couldn't legally sell the submachine guns they produced.
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Here are the gun deaths per country per 100,000.
Venezuela is the worst with 44.1
The US is 19th from the top with 11.9
The UK is 194th with a death rate of 0.15
And lowest is China and Singapore with 0.02.
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Knife crime went up in UK after effective gun control rolled in. Be interesting to correlate gun deaths with stab wound ER admissions, likely inversely proportional.
Re: (Score:2)
And the number of knife deaths in the UK in 2019 was 0.01 per 100,000, which is less than the 0.15 for guns, resulting in a UK that is ranked in 197th place for knife deaths, which is even lower than for guns. But the US is also doing better for knives than it is for guns, at 132nd pla