Reddit Lawyers Force Founder to Redact 'WallStreetBets' From Miami Event (yahoo.com) 43
Reddit has forced Jaime Rogozinski, the founder of infamous r/WallStreetBets, to strip the WallStreetBets name from an upcoming Miami conference after legal threats citing trademark rights. According to a press release, it's the "first known case of a social media company enforcing trademark control over a user-created community." From the report: After years of litigation, courts ultimately sided with Reddit in a decision now referred to as the "Rogozinski Ruling," a precedent that grants platforms broad authority to assert trademark ownership over user-created communities. That ruling now forms the basis for Reddit's demand that the words "WallStreetBets" be physically removed from the event. "They aren't afraid of the name being used," said Rogozinski. "If they were, they'd have to sue the internet. What they're afraid of is the creator hanging out with his creation. They're afraid of the community's independence. And they're afraid it's evolved into something bigger than a subreddit."
The irony is difficult to ignore. The original subreddit counts around three million subscribers, while conservative estimates place more than seven million WallStreetBets participants spread across other platforms. For a movement that built its reputation confronting corporate overreach, Reddit's decision to extend its authority beyond the confines of its web-based platform, reaching into real-world gatherings to police culture it did not create, risks stirring a hornet's nest with a long memory and a track record of collective action.
The event formerly known as WallStreetBets Live, will proceed as scheduled on January 28-30 in Miami. In compliance with Reddit's demands, all references to the name will be physically redacted on-site. "Reddit's lawyers did one thing right," Rogozinski continued. "They proved exactly why we need a decentralized future. This event has become a live case study in what's broken about modern social media. Platforms can deplatform creators, and now, with courts backing them, they can appropriate what users build."
The irony is difficult to ignore. The original subreddit counts around three million subscribers, while conservative estimates place more than seven million WallStreetBets participants spread across other platforms. For a movement that built its reputation confronting corporate overreach, Reddit's decision to extend its authority beyond the confines of its web-based platform, reaching into real-world gatherings to police culture it did not create, risks stirring a hornet's nest with a long memory and a track record of collective action.
The event formerly known as WallStreetBets Live, will proceed as scheduled on January 28-30 in Miami. In compliance with Reddit's demands, all references to the name will be physically redacted on-site. "Reddit's lawyers did one thing right," Rogozinski continued. "They proved exactly why we need a decentralized future. This event has become a live case study in what's broken about modern social media. Platforms can deplatform creators, and now, with courts backing them, they can appropriate what users build."
Rogozinski only now stating the obvious? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Rogozinski only now stating the obvious? (Score:5, Insightful)
The people who built/run the Nebula online streaming video to shy away from this sort of thing are probably feeling pretty good about themselves right now. Youtube video creators are probably sweating bullets right now. A lot of people "invested" in youtube channels over the years, according to this, youtube owns the IP (or at least, branding) of channels like Mr. Beast, Veratasium, etc etc
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I must have had my head under a rock or something cuz this is the first I've heard of Rogozinski but based on what little I've read .. and seeing your comment Yeah, I think you're 100% right - the question is will Nebula, Patreon, and others who have increasingly become ways for notable creators to host and monetize outside of yootoob's functional monopoly - with this ruling, how long before YooToob makes a move like that exactly as you say .. because ... enshittification.
Truth is that enshittification as a
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Social structures are all about fucking over the little guy. Best of luck starting a new community platform without big money backing, and even then, best of luck.
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Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Aaron Swartz (Score:4, Insightful)
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Alas, he's dead, along with his beliefs.
Having their cake and eating it, too (Score:1)
So Reddit wants to own everything good created by their users but avoid any responsibility for anything bad created by their users via section 230.
Bad ruling by the court. They should be required to take the bad with the good or not get to control any of it. We know they'd take option 2 if the court has made a better ruling.
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The rich fucking over the poor is much older than that term you use.
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The rich fucking over the poor is much older than that term you use.
While true, it's easy to call it late stage when technology is helping the rich fuck us over in new, creative, and admittedly impressive ways. In fact, they're fucking the poor over so well that they'll ultimately end up fucking themselves as well, they're just too blinded by greed to see that particular moment coming.
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It's just capitalism. Not late stage. Not modern stage. Just capitalism. It's the best broken system we have so far.
Grabbing trademark created by a user... (Score:5, Informative)
And recently Rogozinsky lost this case. This establishes the trademark WallStreetBets as owned by Reddit (for the uses for which they filed), and given that, they can control use of the trademark. By, for example, banning its use by others for whatever reason - the reason doesn't matter, as they own the trademark.
What I think it specifically unusual about this is that Reddit didn't create this intellectual property, nor did anyone employed by them. So it is hard to even understand on what basis the have standing to claim the copyright above the person who actually coined the name.
The reason might be somewhere in the legal gobbledygook we all have to read & sign when registering an account with Reddit. Aside from specifically assigning away these rights, it's hard to imagine the basis for just grabbing them from the actual creator.
But I haven't tracked down nor read the actual case, so that is just speculation.
The trademark filings & other info for these marks can be found here:
- https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNu... [uspto.gov]
- https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNu... [uspto.gov]
Re:Grabbing trademark created by a user... (Score:5, Informative)
Creation established copyright as per the Berne convention, social media site ToS notwithstanding... which doesn't matter here.
The trademark of 'WallStreetBets' was established by using it commercially, which happened the moment Reddit inserted ad content as someone surfed the subreddit.
Which sucks, is unfair, etc... but also American law.
Re:American law. (Score:1)
and can thus be ignored everywhere else in the world.
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and can thus be ignored everywhere else in the world.
The problem is that this kind of thing gets them into even greater hot water in countries with civilised law.
By claiming ownership, they're effectively admitting that they're a publisher, meaning they'll be bound by laws regarding publishing and broadcasting. They've just given up the "we're not responsible, all the content is user created" defence when it comes to violating broadcast or publishing laws. That excuse was skating on some very thing ice as it was.
Wow (Score:2)
It's not every day you see somebody use the courts to pound a blunt screwdriver into their own nuts. I hope the lawyers are OK.
important context (Score:3, Informative)
Re:important context (Score:4, Insightful)
Does anybody truly give a damn about reddit drama?
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If by above you mean below then sure.
just the name? (Score:1)
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The law is about screwing you over, which to the law is perfectly reasonable.
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Er, WTF is WallStreetBets ? (Score:2)
Is anyone going to explain (please please) what WallStreetBets is all about ?
I suppose I could just scroll on by, but it's nice when posters add some meaning to their stories.
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Re:Er, WTF is WallStreetBets ? (Score:4)
It's a tool where internet people try to convince other internet people to help pump a stock so they can dump it.
Reddit : all your subreddit are belong to us (Score:2)
Or how to scare away your most loyal user base.
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Anybody who is loyal to reddit deserves the deep rogering they're about to receive. Reddit is a turd palace filled with turds.
Name it "NotWallStreetBets live" (Score:2)
Shorting of Reddit shares coming in 3...2...1.... (Score:4, Interesting)
User generated content (Score:2)
Reddit [redditinc.com]: “When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content”
No Hornets nest (Score:2)
Because of inertia people while whine and moan but do nothing else of substance.
Fine, how about this name: (Score:2)
All your Wallstreetbets are belong to us!
Reddit in decline (Score:2)
Reddit is in decline and has been so for years. Hope they go the way of (old) Digg.
Streisand Effect (Score:2)
This may be the best-attended event they could have ever anticipated.
Waiving Section 230 exemption? (Score:1)
If Reddit is claiming Trademark on the subreddit name, does that equate to ownership? If so, does that mean Section 230 protections no longer apply?
Go wild folks!