Cory Doctorow On Tariffs and the DMCA In Canada (pluralistic.net) 64
Longtime Slashdot reader devnulljapan writes: In 2012, Canada passed anti-circumvention law Bill C-11, cut-and-pasted from the U.S. DMCA, in return for access to U.S. markets without tariffs. Trump has tariffed Canada anyway, so Cory Doctorow suggests it sounds like like a good idea to ditch Bill C-11 and turn Canada into a "Disenshittification Nation" and go into the business of "disenshittify[ing] America's defective tech exports." Some of the specific ways Canada could respond include legalize jailbreaking, allow alternative app stores/clients, force companies to offer repair tools, and open firmware that break monopoly lock-ins. Cory's pitch is equal parts economic strategy (capture the rents Big Tech extracts) and national security (reduce dependence on U.S. tech stacks that can be switched off or weaponized).
Immigration Problem (Score:2, Funny)
Won't work. Literally everyone except the oligarchs and their sycophants will move to Canada. Then they will complain about immigrants until a populist PM is elected and creates the 51st state.
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Please. We'll take alternative marketplaces any day.
If we're getting politically harangued no matter what we do then it's time to open up the market. Why protect a country's copyright that won't reciprocate?
Re:More self-promotion from this grifter... (Score:4, Insightful)
More self-promotion from this grifter. The internet's problem isn't "shit" it's "spam" and grifters like Corey are a part of the problem.
Enshittification just doesn't apply to the internet, it applies to all technology. Take cars for example, replacing physical controls for things like heating, windscreen demister and wipers and putting them on the touchscreen.
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"bad design decisions"
lol, it's like you have to make things reaaaalllllly simple in your mind
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and putting them behind a paywall FTFY
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So yuo actually didn't read it, you saw the name and ignored everything else. You're a ignorant idiot.
Nice idea; won't happen (Score:4, Insightful)
Doctorow's idea is nice, but the government of Canada is just as beholden to Big Tech as the government of the USA.
This sort of thing is marginally more likely to happen in the EU and much more likely to happen in places like China or Russia where they (rightly) don't give a crap about laws that criminalize circumvention of DRM.
What Canada can do (and IMO must do) is stop using US products and services to the greatest extent practical, and then work on eliminating them from places where right now there are no practical alternatives, similar to initiatives like this [slashdot.org].
Re: Nice idea; won't happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Doctorow is an open source advocate. Something that, famously, DOESNT pay well. If he is a grifter, what is the grift? Spend your career championing FOSS and losing out to big tech for peanuts?
it is right to be skeptical that Canada can wean itself off of the big tech lobbying teat, but calling him a grifter is just a laughably bad take. It shows you donâ(TM)t know what the word Grifter means.
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Doctorow has never been an open source advocate he's a book writer shilling the next book, that's all he's ever done, that and a podcast.
He's decent at rephrasing stuff that should be common sense but that's about as far as he can go.
The idea that Canada should start 'stop using US products' is fairly ignorant that's been the policy for the last 25 years. They have a "Canada First" law just like the "Made In America" law but they actually enforce it with companies needing to make at least 80% of a product
Re: Nice idea; won't happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Being an author, and being an FOSS advocate are not mutually exclusive. That you seem to think they are shows - again - how little you understand. His books, a couple of which I have read, describe his time lobbying against big tech, which makes him an advocate. His books themselves take his lobbying positions to the general public, which makes him an advocate.
you can disagree. Just as all the big tech CEOs and their co-oped politicians. Just do so honestly. He might fail (again), but success isnâ(TM)t what makes one an advocate. The act of pushing is.
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No, the problem is the US and Canada are intertwined, and have been for centuries. Culturally both countries are similar - one just overthrew the British rule, the other asked them to leave nicely.
That's why the economies ended up interlinked well before NAFTA even - for a time the border was mostly a fiction. Sure you had to tell the border guards stuff, but you didn't need anything more than a driver's license to cross into either country. That's why it is the longest undefended border - until very recent
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All the idiots... did you actually read his speech? Do you like, when you buy an app on your iphone, paying $0.30 out of every dollar to *apple*, rather than to the seller?
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I think I spotted the pro-billionare shill.
Doctorow is an open source advocate. Something that, famously, DOESNT pay well. If he is a grifter, what is the grift? Spend your career championing FOSS and losing out to big tech for peanuts?
it is right to be skeptical that Canada can wean itself off of the big tech lobbying teat, but calling him a grifter is just a laughably bad take. It shows you donâ(TM)t know what the word Grifter means.
Yep, a grifter is a rent seeker, someone who wants money for doing or providing nothing. Someone who is cheating and/or swindling you out of money.
Doctorow actually produces shit, he's an author and a journalist. It's not uncommon for independent journalists to get funding from donations, with the consolidation of media conglomerates (buying up all the independent publishers) it's often the only way and better than being beholden to the likes of Murdoch. He's not like Trump or Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (Tomm
Re:Nice idea; won't happen (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not based on "intellectual property theft". It's based on preventing corporations from abusing customers.
When a farmer can't repair a tractor without paying thousands of dollars to the manufacturer, even if the actual problem is a $20 part, then sorry... fuck the corporation.
Re:Nice idea; won't happen (Score:4, Interesting)
Duuude.
Cory literally has copies of his works on Archive.org for FREE. https://archive.org/search?que... [archive.org]
We literally GIVES AWAY his writing so that it is accessible to those that might not be able to buy it. He used to host the free copies directly on his own website.
That is one of the reasons that people like me that understand that he walks the walk he talks make a point of purchasing hardcopies of his books for both personal use and as gifts to others. We actively support him with our money because not only are his fictions well written and good reads, but his technical, political, and social commentary writings are of net benefit to the world at large.
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Re:Nice idea; won't happen (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all but guaranteed to happen. Canada more and more seems to be aligning itself with the EU, and it's been happening in the EU for over two decades (sideloading, alternative app stores, USB-C connector, GPDR, etc.). It's happening in countries like South Korea and Japan (allowing alternative app stores and payment systems), India (app store billing policies), Vietnam, Nigeria and Brazil (data sovereignty), Australia and France (age restrictions on social media), and so on.
It's almost impossible to overestimate the damage that has been done by flushing three quarters of a century of US soft power down the drain. Anti-American sentiment in the Western world is at an all-time high. In Europe, it's even starting to outpace anti-Chinese sentiment (but not yet anti-Russian sentiment). Japan is still a bit of a holdout, partially because of Taiwan, and partially because ideas of exceptionalism resonate well there.
Re: Nice idea; won't happen (Score:2)
If youâ(TM)ve read the CBC in the last week, there is talk about concerns that US tech companies will interfere in the secessionist movements. Look at the Brexit example. Much of that voteâ(TM)s mis)information was controlled by foreign interests.
There is already talk about home grown social media and other tech.
Perhaps MAPL shouldnâ(TM)t be just for the feedstock of entertainment, but also the channels for delivering information. Though please no great firewall of Canada. What would you
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>>home grown social media and other tech.
No one would use it. It would end up being something like the Canadian government would have to make it illegal to use Facebook, and only the shittier domestic alternative would be allowed. Similar to Ladas in the Soviet Union.
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Who's to say the local version has to be inferior? With sufficient budget, as well as being able to build what works directly rather than having the learning process earlier players went through there's no reason it needs to be inferior.
And even if it is, heavy marketing could easily overcome that without having an outright ban on the foreign alternatives.
Plus if the government uses it themselves, they could tie essential services in to it - effectively forcing people to use it.
Re:Nice idea; won't happen (Score:4, Informative)
What Canada can do (and IMO must do) is stop using US products and services to the greatest extent practical, and then work on eliminating them from places where right now there are no practical alternatives.
We're working on it. Disentangling our economy from the US takes time. Meanwhile, we're basically trying to quietly make our moves without drawing Trump's attention. The pressures in play right now are bad, but they've been worse and can easily be made worse. If we can drag things out as-is for a while, it only benefits us (and our new partners).
There's a lot of petty-but-good things we could do to piss off Trump, but they'd mostly hurt us in the short and medium term. We gave in on a tax last year that would've hit the tech companies doing business here, for instance. That could be fired back up. And - as Doctorow says - DMCA mirroring. We could repeal all that kind of crap, and that'd be awesome over the next 50 years but we need to survive the next three more.
Our grocery stores have maple leafs on products that are (mostly) made in Canada, specifically so shoppers can easily avoid purchasing American products. That's the kind of thing we can do right now... helping each other while hurting the US and not getting noticed by anyone but US grocery-producers, who in turn complain about Trump's moves. We're boycotting US travel in statistically significant numbers. We're just... pretending the annoying neighbors don't exist.
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Yeah, I'm Canadian and doing my bit to avoid sending any of my money to the USA.
But our federal government is almost completely dependent on US corporations to function, namely Microsoft and to a much lesser extent, Google. If that's not a national security risk, I don't know what is.
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Canada's GDP is half that of just California, even though Canada has a slightly larger population. They don't have Silicon fabs. A decade of left-wing government that dis-invested in energy and infrastructure production while increasing regulatory requirements means that something like a data-center is prohibitively expensive to build in Canada.
And the thing about having a replacement for something like Google/Apple/Facebook means billions in capital investment, in a place that can't provide the return on i
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Comparing Canada's GDP to California's is a bit dishonest because California's GDP per capita of around $100K is much higher than the US's GDP per capita of about $67K.
Canada's GDP per Capita is about $54K which is low compared to the USA, but much less terrible when compared against $67K instead of $100K.
Re: Nice idea; won't happen (Score:2)
It's nonsensical.
Cory Doctorow suggests it sounds like like a good idea to ditch Bill C-11 and turn Canada into a "Disenshittification Nation" and go into the business of "disenshittify[ing] America's defective tech exports." Some of the specific ways Canada could respond include legalize jailbreaking, allow alternative app stores/clients, force companies to offer repair tools, and open firmware that break monopoly lock-ins.
Seriously?
...Some of the specific ways Canada could respond include legalize jailbreaking,
Wow, that sounds great - except when John Deere, et al, simply decide not to ship their product to Canada?
...allow alternative app stores/clients,...
Allow? Federal law prevents companies from offering alternative app stores? Really? The issue is that companies like Apple refuse to support alternatives, the gov't could, I guess, 'force' companies to enable/facikitate/support alternative app stores, but, really?
...force companies to offer repair tools,...
Force? How will Gov't "force" companies to offer repair tools?
...and open firmware that break monopoly lock-ins.
Again, how will this happen?
Let's not forget, Can
Re: Nice idea; won't happen (Score:2)
I just read this list again, he says the same thing several different ways:
legalize jailbreaking - OK
allow alternative app stores/clients - isn't this the definition of jailbreaking?
force companies to offer repair tools - IK, this is kinda different
open firmware that break monopoly lock-ins - oh look, jailbreaking again
So now we just need to get the government to force companies to jailbreak their software/products? Riiiiight.
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Wow, that sounds great - except when John Deere, et al, simply decide not to ship their product to Canada?
Lots of countries have laws which manufacturers don't like, and yet they continue selling their products in those countries anyway because although they are obviously trying to push for more profit at the expense of the customers, if given the choice between lower profits or simply none at all they'll take the lower profits while bitching and moaning about it.
And in the hypothetical situation that they did stop selling in a country, then their competitors would just come to dominate the market instead.
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Wow, that sounds great - except when John Deere, et al, simply decide not to ship their product to Canada?
That's OK. Then we'll buy Massey Ferguson. And if they stop too, Canada has vehicle manufacturing plants that are being decimated by Trump's tariffs. We'll repurpose them to build farm equipment. And if you think Canada can't spin up that sort of industry, just where do you think Massey Ferguson originated? (Hint: Canada and Ireland).
So this probably isn't a good idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously 5 years ago I could say something like that and everybody would have a little chuckle and we'd go about our business. After Greenland everything has changed. The only reason Trump backed down from Greenland is that a handful of Republicans indicated they would work with the Democrats to remove him from office. But it was not guaranteed and they let him go right up to t
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The US invading would hurt the US. Just the threats have opened peoples eyes. Migrations take time and I don't know anyone that ever ran to aÂbully to get abused.
Again we are crazy (Score:2)
Re:So this probably isn't a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
The USA won't invade Canada. It would be far too costly for the USA to try that.
Instead, it'll do shady things like encouraging separatists (we're already seeing that in Alberta) and trying to undermine Canadian unity and cohesiveness.
And corporations don't need an excuse to behave like dicks. They're already doing that, so we have little to lose.
Re: Jokes on you! (Score:1)
Because Trump wants nothing more than to annex 30 million more Democrats.
When quoting a job like this (Score:1)
I know he supposedly invented the word, but... (Score:2)
Re: I know he supposedly invented the word, but... (Score:1)
Re: I know he supposedly invented the word, but.. (Score:2)
Did someone order caviar?
We kinda tried. (Score:2)
Canadian here.
We told Meta they need to pay media outlets if they're using their content on Facebook, etc..
So what happened?
They banned all Canadian news outlets.
So you can't post any links to Canadian media, eg CBC.
Australia did the same thing, but Meta decided to pay there.
Odds are that if we tried what Cory's suggesting, they'd just stop selling here. (Not that a number of people are already actively boycotting US products and looking at companies from other countries. #ElbowsUp)
California can do stuff l
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>>but I think when Canada tries this, most bigger corps are 'so what' and just drop Canada as a market.
The entire Canadian market is 1/2 the size of California. Why would an international business go out of their way for Canadian dollars in that case?
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
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Because businesses usually go after even much smaller markets - leaving money on the table is seldom a good business decision.
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Another risk of ignoring a small market is that a local company will take that market and use that as a based to grow becoming a serious competitor.
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Canada's population is slightly larger than California's, so depending on what you are selling, it can be a pretty substantial market.
Canada has the 10th largest economy in the world. It'd be the height of foolishness to not try to sell into Canada.
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We had a workaround for the ban within minutes of Zuck's attempt to stop us from putting links in our comments. It looks like this: httpsCOLONwwwDOTzuckerbergblowsDOTcom.
Canada already dropped as a market (Score:1)
Canada is already being dropped as a market by raising tariffs, and in Canada by buying local products and making trade deals with non-US markets. What Doctorow is suggesting is merely the next step and we should take it.
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Honestly, if Facebook pulled out of Canada completely, I'd rejoice.
Frak Trump (Score:2)
WTF happened to USMCA? Trump's tariffs violate it, and it's law in the US, so this is just another instance of Trump admin violating whatever laws it pleases. So, WTF should the rest of us obey laws?
Awesome but unlikely (Score:1)
US citizen here. This idea is awesome but unlikely. The tariff penalties would be too high for Canada to consider it.
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US citizen here. The argument is that the tariff penalties are already too high, so they might as well consider it as they pull away from doing business with the USA more.
Not as clever as he thinks. (Score:1)
Ideas get more traction when their names aren't obscenities.
I'm not impressed.
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Cory Doctorow or his writings have appeared in The New York Times, on CBC, on the BBC, and in The Atlantic. I guess none of those count as "major media", eh?
All these stories from Doctorow (Score:2)