Microsoft Weighs Retreat From Windows 11 AI Push, Reviews Copilot Integrations and Recall (windowscentral.com) 111
Microsoft is reevaluating its AI strategy on Windows 11 and plans to scale back or remove Copilot integrations across built-in apps after months of sustained user backlash, according to a Windows Central report citing people familiar with the company's plans.
Copilot features in apps like Notepad and Paint are under review and could be pulled entirely or stripped of their Copilot branding in favor of a more streamlined experience. The company has paused work on adding new Copilot buttons to any other in-box apps. Windows Recall, the screenshot-based search feature delayed by an entire year in 2024 over security and privacy concerns, is separately under review -- Microsoft internally considers the current implementation a failure and is exploring ways to rework or rename the feature rather than scrap it entirely, the report said.
Copilot features in apps like Notepad and Paint are under review and could be pulled entirely or stripped of their Copilot branding in favor of a more streamlined experience. The company has paused work on adding new Copilot buttons to any other in-box apps. Windows Recall, the screenshot-based search feature delayed by an entire year in 2024 over security and privacy concerns, is separately under review -- Microsoft internally considers the current implementation a failure and is exploring ways to rework or rename the feature rather than scrap it entirely, the report said.
It's utter shite (Score:5, Insightful)
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They just want as much data from you as possible. And many people will use these features, even if they make their work worse.
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I don't think they need Copilot to collect data about you, or about what you do in Windows. They collect all kinds of telemetry already. AI doesn't really help them do that.
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Passive collection, yes. But Copilot allows active collection by asking questions for clarification, subtle bias and other techniques that can be used when being interactive. And copilot, being a sycophant, can draw the mentally weaker ones in.
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Copilot, even on your desktop, already does all its AI work in the cloud. The LLM does not run locally. It's a lot easier to send the telemetry to the cloud and use AI to analyze it there, than to use some "embedded" version of copilot locally and send up the digested data.
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There is no copilot on my desktop. But yes, where it is the whole data-stream goes to MS.
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Thats why I've been running about with the RemoveWindowsAI script on a thumbnail and fixing as many peoples computers as I can. There are SO many people who are sick of this shit, but dont have the technical skills to run a github hosted powershell script, so hey , the friendly office IT guy to the rescue.
For me, its just about disrupting Microsofts data collection pipeline. The AI shit, meh, whatever, I dont care, its what the AI is being used for that has me irate.
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Indeed. Well, so far I have needed to do nothing, as these "improvements" are not pushed (or available?) in Europe. Probably because they are hugely illegal without a rather long explanation of what is done with all the data and a default-off setting being legally required.
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The only data they want is the ability to show their manager that the AI push is getting engagement and they met the dictates.
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That seems rather ... doubtful.
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The popups, I agree, are a waste. But the Copilot tool itself, when you instruct it to do what *you* want it to do, can be pretty useful. It can dramatically shorten the time needed to draft a PowerPoint slide deck, or a job description, or a technical document. It can also help write arcane Excel formulas that are needlessly complex, and it can create data sets like a list of the most populous cities or states, and get the data for you. The technology in Office is still pretty immature, but it's improving
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Weigh this M$ (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Weigh this M$ (Score:5, Insightful)
I think microslop puts a lot of weight on its reputation, but utterly fail to realize its reputation is shit. Its a classic bubble situation. I have a friend who works there and I just can't bring myself to dump on microslop with them because I'm sure they care about their work and they seem to like the company.
But microsoft's reputation is horrid. They can't be trusted, their software constantly lies to your face. Anyone who has had to work in-depth with windows knows this.
Now with their gamble on ai failing because their ai is the worst of all the megacorp's ai and their founder being exposed as one of eptein's close buddies and europe moving to seperate from amerislop software, perhaps an inkling of their actual reputation is getting through. They really are in danger of losing marketshare in the Non-OS sectors of their buisness. I stopped using microsoft word 15 years ago, and you couldn't get me to go back to it with hot pokers. I'm using linux for gaming and windows for work, because I must, but every year it becomes easier to forget that microslop even exists.
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I spend plenty of time making sure Microslop bloat doesn't spy on my users. I have to do this since they constantly reinstall their bloat on user accounts when they log in. I'm to the point I'm disabling it in the registry on every machine when people log in. I have had to disable the microsoft store. Since the store installs apps that need local admin without asking for local admin. Its a shitshow and the reason why all microslop installs at my house enjoy the Untrusted vlan with the heaviest filtering.
My favorite solution is the windows firewall. Pull default outbound rule and whitelist software you want to have Internet access. The important step is to use the firewall app baked into the group policy editor and disable rule merging. This prevents windows itself or any installed apps from messing with your firewall rules.
Re:Weigh this M$ (Score:5, Informative)
Even with the MS Store blocked I was able to get Copilot installed via the store.
We have a few Copilot licenses to evaluate it for our org. For some reason my PC didn't have the Copilot app. I probably disabled it a few months back for reasons. I searched around a bit and eventually figured I would ask Copilot via the web chat. It was useless and could not offer me any insight as to how to get Copilot crApp installed.
This is what fixed it. I went to office.com (now Copilot) Clicked to the install link which showed the MS Store was blocked but it downloaded the install and ran anyway. So much for our corp policy blocking the store. I repeated this with a coworker watching just to be sure I wasn't mistaken.
MS is so broken right now. I think it is going to get much worse before it gets better.
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So much for our corp policy blocking the store.
This is the problem, the kneejerk trying to block things which then doesn't work anyway, and only compounds your lack of awareness of the thing you're trying to block.
This is the direction MS are going in, instead of trying to fight against them you need to embrace this direction - ensure you learn about their new tech, and implement policies to properly configure and monitor it rather than trying to block it.
Trying to block features that MS is trying to push is going to cause you endless pain, and all mann
Re:Weigh this M$ (Score:4, Informative)
This is an EDU org following MS practices and guidance. The MS Store for Biz and Edu was shuttered a few years back and customers were directed to use Intune. MS is the one circumventing their own mechanisms in order to pump Copilot into as many systems as possible.
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This is the problem, the kneejerk trying to block things which then doesn't work anyway, and only compounds your lack of awareness of the thing you're trying to block.
This is the direction MS are going in, instead of trying to fight against them you need to embrace this direction - ensure you learn about their new tech, and implement policies to properly configure and monitor it rather than trying to block it.
Trying to block features that MS is trying to push is going to cause you endless pain, and all manner of loopholes where things come back unexpectedly, or things break etc.
This is nonsense, MS has SKUs that don't even have the store. The system is explicitly designed to work without it.
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I Left Windows as Daily Driver Because of AI (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I Left Windows as Daily Driver Because of AI (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got the same problem. After ~4 decades, I'm looking for a new OS.
Re:I Left Windows as Daily Driver Because of AI (Score:5, Informative)
May I recommend Linux Mint?
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After using it for years I had problems with Linux Mint - I remember not being able to use gscan2pdf.
I've left the old desktop PC with Mint installed, too much trouble to start afresh after spending a fair amount of time setting it up. Running Debian Trixie on my Framework 13 and an old Toshiba Satellite which work perfectly including gscan2pdf. I'm also gradually learning to get Debian set up as a better mail server than I currently run. rspamd is next on the learning curve.
So, there you are, I recommend D
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I've been dual booting Mint w/ Win11 for almost a year now. 99% of the time I'm in Mint and only go into W11 for special reasons or to update it if I'm bored.
Mint is fine but I have been frustrated that I can't find a way to update browsers (FF and Vivaldi) without it resetting some of my preferences. Even with FF sync this happens.
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I've installed via Mint Software Manager, then APT, and now a Flathub Flatpack via Software Manager. All with the same results. Next will be a manual download and install. If none of that works then it must be some odd FF config I have gotten myself into.
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I've been using a variety of mixed hardware -old and new- for years now with Mint and I've not run into any issues yet. I can't think of any hardware that doesn't work, TBH.
One time I had to hunt down drivers for a graphics tablet, and when I upgraded to the next version of Mint I was pleasantly surprised to find out that they were now natively supported. All my stuff just seems to work.
If I'm losing out on something by not having the latest, shiniest kernel, then so be it- it hasn't seemed to hold me back
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Zorin is supposed to be Windows-like.
Mint Cinnamon is easy to use and sort of like what I remember Windows 7 to be like. That's what I use now.
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I hear OS/2 is pretty good...
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Yeah, if there is a way for it to get security updates. But the thing that held it back back in the day - that it was resource hungry - would no longer be true. The most RAM it could handle would be 1GB, and the maximum storage would be 8GB. On the downside, I doubt that any modern browser supports it: Chromium or Brave would have to be recompiled on it
The other thing for me would be that it's one of the few OSs that has no IPv6 support. Although if there is no way to get security updates, it could be
Hedging bets on different VMs (Score:2)
AI is there on a lot of things. Which is why, for my next computer, I'm planning to have a hypervisor that supports the VMs I need - FreeBSD, Kali Linux, Windows 7 and macOS Mojave (for an iPod that still works), as well as some retro and niche OSs, such as OS/2 or ArcaOS, KolibriOS. I might even have OpenBSD there for the firewall and router functions. Also, given that some of these OSs are no longer supported, they won't all have internet connections, or even IP addresses
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Both the apparent AI, but also the installation of Recall means that I cannot have Windows on my machines, which have intellectual property.
I've heard from a couple of people they gave up on Windows over recall specifically.
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Don't worry, AI is coming for your Apple and Linux desktop too.
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Apple has been behind on the AI, so for now, it's not as vulnerable. Although in the long term, that may not remain true. Linux is getting more AI, as the Linux Foundation has itself openly declared. All their money won't be spent on the kernel or making this year the year of the Linux desktop: it'll be spent on AI
Which is why I suggested above having a computer w/ plenty of RAM and storage, a type 1 hypervisor and a bunch of VMs. The older ones, such as Windows 7, which run your legacy software but n
They Won't (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just bullshit to pacify the naysayers.
There's no way they'll turn around and pull features that they just launched and marketed.
Maybe they'll cut the marketing. Maybe they'll stop their push, although I doubt it. But, there's no way they are rolling anything back in Windows 11.
Maybe they'll pull it form Windows 12,but, even then, I doubt it.
Re:They Won't (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just bullshit to pacify the naysayers.
There's no way they'll turn around and pull features that they just launched and marketed.
For sure. It seemed like they were pretty careful to say that the copilot "branding" is being removed. It doesn't sound like they're changing the functionality of anything.
Re:They Won't (Score:4, Insightful)
This is just bullshit to pacify the naysayers.
There's no way they'll turn around and pull features that they just launched and marketed.
Maybe they'll cut the marketing. Maybe they'll stop their push, although I doubt it. But, there's no way they are rolling anything back in Windows 11.
Maybe they'll pull it form Windows 12,but, even then, I doubt it.
They're going to "rework" Recall. That right there tells you they aren't really going to stop the egregious shit. They're just going to try to shove it a little further undercover, and hope people won't notice it. User backlash to them just says, "hide this better." It doesn't say, "Stop doing this." And that's the systemic problem with Microsoft. They're going to do what they do, regardless. They just won't be bragging about it as much.
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This is just bullshit to pacify the naysayers.
There's no way they'll turn around and pull features that they just launched and marketed.
They will if they want to keep the money rolling in from corporate site licenses, especially if those sites are doing government contracting or deal with PII, PHI, or other sensitive information like that.
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They will if they want to keep the money rolling in from corporate site licenses, especially if those sites are doing government contracting or deal with PII, PHI, or other sensitive information like that.
This sounds great but the reality is most businesses won't drop MS products. People say it'll happen but it just isn't even in the vocabulary of leaders.
Good luck telling a company of even 100 users that they're not going to use Outlook or Excel anymore. It's hard enough de-programming people from believing they need Adobe just to open a simple PDF image from their scanner. Tell the bean counters in any company they have to use something aside from Excel and they'll have a bigger hissy fit than if you to
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100% agree they're not going to pull back the features. If anything they're going to cut back on the marketing blitz and turn down the volume of all of the nagging but they won't pull these features out.
In light of the O364 issues, I wonder if this "pause" in copilot rollout is because their infrastructure couldn't handle the surge. We all know that Redmond doesn't give a shit about us or our complaints. What they do care about is the global news coverage when they have a major outage. This will buy the
Dead weight (Score:4, Insightful)
There's some dead weight named Nadella at Microsoft. Retreating from that would probably help.
Let the powertoys team take over the ui (Score:4, Insightful)
It's about the only good thing that Windows has these days, 11 is an agile vibe driven mess and whoever thought that the os should ask you questions about your user experience every time you launch a new app needs fired into the sea
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Yes. I only use a few of the PowerToys utilities, but those that I use, I depend on. FancyZones is a must if you have a very large monitor (mine is a 42" 4K TV). Awake is great for keeping your machine from falling asleep. PowerRename is nice when you've got to do bulk renaming.
Some aren't so good, like the Workspaces tool. It's not smart enough to know if you already have the apps open that each Workspace has, so you end up with duplicates if you switch.
Still, I agree, it should be part of Windows!
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I can't wait to use Windows never. But lately I've been interacting with my phone more (android) (people keep bothering me to do stuff) and I'm shocked at how bad the interface is, even for mobile.
Oh No! Not this time! (Score:3)
After all that money they spent on AI? (Score:2, Interesting)
How can they possibly retreat after going all in on AI with all of their investments, and after reorienting the company to focus on this, even mandating employee use?
A company this big can't just turn on a dime.
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"Microsoft internally considers the current implementation a failure and is exploring ways to rework or rename the feature rather than scrap it entirely"
There we have our answer. They aren't going to retreat, they're just going to try to find another avenue to do the same thing. Microsoft just doesn't get it.
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They have to fire a bunch of executives to do that. They're running out of tech gods to believe in.
Let's not over-ReactOS (Score:2)
"It's been a quarter-century. Does ReactOS work yet?"
"No. It still hasn't achieved parity with Windows XP."
"Hm... I'm thinking it's still better than this."
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Time to start a new project, this time targeting only Windows 7 features, compatibility and functionality. For revenue once it's complete, it can use a subscription model for a Windows Defender type of utility, where the user may pay something if s/he wishes to receive antimalware updates
There is a project called LOSS32, which has the Win32 API running on top of Linux. That would be fascinating to see - whether such a system can actually run applications written for Windows.
TRANSLATION (Score:5, Insightful)
TRANSLATION: "No one wants this bullshit no matter how hard we push it!"
"But we won't give up! Grow magic beans grow!" (Score:2, Insightful)
"Microsoft internally considers the current implementation a failure and is exploring ways to rework or rename the feature rather than scrap it entirely"
Unfortunately they will just go back to the old chestnut of rebranding and trying again...
I guess sunken cost fallacy is going to be what hobbles this tech giant. This is the worst time for them to try this because there is stronger competition out there than ever in every market that they're in, and there is also the tech sovereignty issue with foreign nations on top of that. This is the moment where MS is their most vulnerable, and instead of focusing on their competency they're out there selling their co
I have an idea (Score:4, Insightful)
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They probably focus-group every design decision the way a lot of product/design people do. Instead of actually having good designs they rely on process and feedback instead of creativity/experience/knowledge/common sense. The metric for quality is the reactions of the same group of people who keep coming in for Starbucks vouchers for spending an hour answering softball questions about this horrible OS.
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I wonder if they were to ask a group of people who actually work with windows a lot, especially whatever part of it they want to change they'll just always get "FUCK OFF WITH THAT SHIT" from the focus-group, so they've decided to just stop listening.
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I don't pay a lot of attention to focus group stuff the designers and product folks do, but I do see the outcome. There are a lot of features that power users are like "DON'T BREAK THAT" or don't move it, don't change the way it works, don't "improve" it. Even if their workflow is completely stupid and roundabout, that's how they do it and they don't want to relearn something even if it's an improvement. People are animals.
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Yeah, and that too a year after quietly removing WordPad. They could have left Notepad alone, and added tabs and whatever extra features they wanted, like tables - into WordPad. Also, for Paint, instead of adding AI to it, they could have added tabs here, since one use of Paint that I do is combining/cascading images, where the multiple tabs would have been handy
no they wont (Score:2, Insightful)
pro-tip: they wont do it. they will float it out in the media like this, gain a bunch of support and then quietly do exactly nothing different. just like Recall and many many many more things over the decades.
Local users setup (Score:3)
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There is one actually good reason for using a MS account: You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local account.
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There is one actually good reason for using a MS account: You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local account.
There are no good reasons for using a Microsoft account. People have been doing MFA logins to windows for decades. You used to have to install custom dlls to override the authentication system but that hasn't been needed since like Vista or 7.
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Well if you had to install custom DLLs, you weren't really using Windows local authentication then, were you! And the fact that you could do such a thing, doesn't make it straightforward for a non-technical user to set up. For such people, a MS account is by far the easiest way to do MFA. Microsoft didn't build it for tech nerds, they built it for regular people.
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Well if you had to install custom DLLs, you weren't really using Windows local authentication then, were you!
You could still use windows accounts even if something else was controlling the login decisions. These days people just use CSPs.
And the fact that you could do such a thing, doesn't make it straightforward for a non-technical user to set up.
Users install packaged software that handles necessary technical details.
For such people, a MS account is by far the easiest way to do MFA. Microsoft didn't build it for tech nerds, they built it for regular people.
You are changing the subject. Your assertion was "You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local account." not a statement about ease of use. Neither is there substantive relationship between implementation complexity and end user experience.
Many of Microsoft's MFA modes of operation are in
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We're talking about native Windows functionality. Of course, if you install third-party software, you can make whatever changes to the login process you like: requiring MFA, or allowing purely local logins. I don't disagree with that.
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We're talking about native Windows functionality. Of course, if you install third-party software, you can make whatever changes to the login process you like: requiring MFA, or allowing purely local logins. I don't disagree with that.
No "we" are not. What I am responding to is your statement "You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local account." Which is flat wrong.
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You *cannot* enable MFA with a Windows local account, unless you modify your Windows login process with third-party software. Sure, if you introduce third-party software, you can do anything you want. We're talking about *Windows* here, not third-party options.
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You *cannot* enable MFA with a Windows local account, unless you modify your Windows login process with third-party software.
What you are now saying is relevant to neither your original assertion or my response to it.
Sure, if you introduce third-party software, you can do anything you want. We're talking about *Windows* here, not third-party options.
This is getting old. First it didn't count because you asserted it was not "windows local authentication".
When I pointed out that was a load of BS the story changed from local authentication to "native Windows functionality".
The only statement I have responded to is the following false assertion:
"There is one actually good reason for using a MS account: You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local
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This entire thread started with a request for MICROSOFT to restore the old local account functionality in WINDOWS. It is not about third party add-ons, and never was. That was your doing. Yes, bring on third party software, and you can literally make it do whatever you want. That has nothing to do with the original poster's point, or mine.
MFA standards (Score:3)
You can require MFA for access. You can't do that with a local account.
Off course you can. It only requires the creation of a shared secret and a standard TOTP app. In fact, all internet connected TOTP apps should be encountered with the utmost distrust. Or a yubikey. Or a USB drive with a key. Or ...
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If you install a third party TOTP app, that's not exactly Windows then, is it! We're talking about native Windows functionality. If you want to discuss add-on functionality, you can certainly use an add-on to disable the Microsoft account requirement as well. Windows actually still supports local accounts, it just hides it very, very well. If you use Rufus to install Windows, you can enable this feature.
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OK, so how does that change the equation? You still have to install software on your Windows computer, that is not Windows.
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That's a good argument, if you assume that the average Windows user has the information to make a good decision, given the option.
remember: (Score:4, Insightful)
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microsoft only cares about maximizing shareholder returns.
The same as all other for-profit organizations. The assumption is that providing excellent products/service will do it, but the truth is that companies in general have many avenues to maximize shareholder returns that do not involve providing excellent products/service. In fact, once a company acquires a dominance in their space equivalent to MS's in the desktop, providing excellent products/service essentially becomes a liability: something that puts a dent on their profits.
So close (Score:2)
Microsoft Weighs Retreat From Windows 11 ...
If only they had stopped at this ...
AI is supposed to be helpful (Score:2)
They learned something? (Score:3)
Naaa. They just noticed something this time. And at the next opportunity they will do crap to their users again.
Wrong context (Score:2)
Paint isn't where you go if you want to do real digital art. Notepad isn't where you go if you want to write real text. These are stripped-down, bottom tier apps in their respective genres. Why on earth would anyone want AI in these, even people who like AI?
AI makes much more sense in Office products, where they are putting real effort into turning AI into a power tool. I like some of the things it can do, like draft PPT slides or create an outline of talking points. In Excel, it can be especially useful to
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Have interns slop code the little programs to get maximum exposure to the copilot button while the company programmers are working on slopping the larger pieces of code. It's one big sloppy family with each member doing their part.
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Coding is a whole different thing, not related to Notepad, Paint, or Office.
In the hands of an experienced developer, AI coding tools like GitHub Copilot are amazing. Yes, they constantly make mistakes, like every single prompt has something wrong with the answer, but it's still a lot more efficient than coding everything manually.
In the hands of a novice, AI can help them learn. But this is dangerous, because the novice won't be able to tell what code is right and what is wrong, and what is just plain dnag
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Microsoft Copilot (Score:2)
The copilot should be an standalone application named microsoft copilot, that live EXACTLY like notepad or paint or solitaire, including running a local model until you use the "advanced thinking" feature.
If you want it to work on a document or picture or.. you have to drag the file to it.
Stop treating users like misbehaving children (Score:2)
office first put copilot into the ribbon, which is logical. That is where all new features appear eventually. Then, after people ignored it, because the did not want to use it, they put it into a button that hovers over the document, and cannot be hidden (unlike objects in the ribbon). I rolled back my office install to a version with copilot in the ribbon, so that I could hide it
They'll just "rebrand" it (Score:2)
The copilot button will be named "Microsoft assistant" and everybody will immediately think it's a cool new feature that surpasses the old one... except all they did was change an icon and a string.
ai BLOAT (Score:2)
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Make something that actually does what people want (Score:2)
Look at the insane virality and popularity of OpenMolt / MoltBot, which was made by a hobbyist over a few weekends. Yes it has security issues - but if it was actually built and provided by a company like Microsoft or Google, they could easily address those.
Why is it so popular? Because it is an AI assistant that can actually do stuff, and is useful, as opposed to the stupidity of having AI in a text editor mostly used as a cliipboard cache..
Microsoft needs better product managers. The current slate seems t
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I believe that both Microsoft and Nadella got greatly stung by all the Microslop jokes going around, and decided to reverse course. Whatever the reason, it's a good thing they did
Also, since Azure is now their top revenue earner, they should this time indeed make Windows 12 the final version of Windows, and after that, only do security updates via Windows Defender and Sentinel. Here are some suggestions:
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they should this time indeed make Windows 12 the final version of Windows, and after that, only do security updates via Windows Defender and Sentinel.
Now if only they'd done this at the Windows 7 stage.
Microsoft missing the boat again (Score:2)
Microsoft should be simplifying their entire OS, system services and removing legacy usage of obsolete technologies so that they can ship a much smaller, less complex base operating system.
And giving vendors a 3 year timeframe for them requiring that third-party software cannot install their own Windows service to prevent OS level permissions for third-party software. Feasible?
45 years of always adding more features/APIs than are retired got Microsoft here. Too many "What's new in product X?" releases li
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The whole interface experience is a disaster. It's messy, non-intuitive, like the horrible Active Desktop nonsense of a quarter century ago, only worse. I've never dealt with it as a daily driver, so I suppose never tried to break thirty years of habits, but to the extent I have used it, it's probably the worst modern desktop UI I have ever seen. Next to it MacOS, Gnome and even KDE are epitomes of elegance. I won't even get into what a fucking nightmare the update system. God help you if you don't a Window
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I see you haven't seen any version of GNOME from the last 18 years.
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A basic Gnome install is as simple as they come to use. You would have to go out of your way to make it as convoluted as Windows 11.
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Fuck that RIP shit. Windows deserves to suffer tenfold what it put humanity through. That's like saying, RIP Trump or Putin or Barbra Streisand. It's just not happening.
My terrible metric (Score:2)
Window probably hasn't needlessly killed as many people as Dick Cheney and G. W. Bush.
But by my own arbitrary metric, Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, and Charles Manson all killed fewer than Tesla so are more deserving I guess ?
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Errrr....there are good bits? Which ones?