Waymo Reveals Remote Workers In Philippines Sometimes Advise Its Driverless Cars (newsweek.com) 75
Waymo surprised U.S. lawmakers Wednesday during a hearing on autonomous vehicles and their safety and oversight. Newsweek reports:
During questioning, Sen. Ed Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, asked what happens when a Waymo vehicle encounters a driving situation it cannot independently resolve. "The Waymo phones a human friend for help," Markey explained, adding that the vehicle communicates with a "remote assistance operator." Markey criticized the lack of public information about these workers, despite their role in vehicle safety...
[Dr. Mauricio Peña, chief safety officer at Waymo] responded by clarifying the scope of the operators' involvement: "They provide guidance, they do not remotely drive the vehicles," Peña said. "Waymo asks for guidance in certain situations and gets input, but Waymo is always in charge of the dynamic driving task," according to EVShift. Pressed further on where those operators are located, Peña told lawmakers that some are based in the United States and others abroad, though he did not have an exact breakdown. After additional questioning, he confirmed that overseas operators are located in the Philippines...
The disclosure prompted sharp criticism from Markey, who raised concerns about security and labor implications. "Having people overseas influencing American vehicles is a safety issue," he said. "The information the operators receive could be out of date. It could introduce tremendous cyber security vulnerabilities," according to People. Markey also pointed to job displacement, noting that autonomous vehicles already affect taxi and rideshare drivers in the U.S. Waymo defended the practice in comments to People, saying the use of overseas staff is part of a broader effort to scale operations globally.
Waymo also defended the remote workers to Newsweek as licensed drivers reviewed for "driving-related convictions" and other traffic violations who are also "randomly screened for drug use."
Thanks to Slashdot reader sinij for sharing the news.
[Dr. Mauricio Peña, chief safety officer at Waymo] responded by clarifying the scope of the operators' involvement: "They provide guidance, they do not remotely drive the vehicles," Peña said. "Waymo asks for guidance in certain situations and gets input, but Waymo is always in charge of the dynamic driving task," according to EVShift. Pressed further on where those operators are located, Peña told lawmakers that some are based in the United States and others abroad, though he did not have an exact breakdown. After additional questioning, he confirmed that overseas operators are located in the Philippines...
The disclosure prompted sharp criticism from Markey, who raised concerns about security and labor implications. "Having people overseas influencing American vehicles is a safety issue," he said. "The information the operators receive could be out of date. It could introduce tremendous cyber security vulnerabilities," according to People. Markey also pointed to job displacement, noting that autonomous vehicles already affect taxi and rideshare drivers in the U.S. Waymo defended the practice in comments to People, saying the use of overseas staff is part of a broader effort to scale operations globally.
Waymo also defended the remote workers to Newsweek as licensed drivers reviewed for "driving-related convictions" and other traffic violations who are also "randomly screened for drug use."
Thanks to Slashdot reader sinij for sharing the news.
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Re: why is any one supprised (Score:2)
Also consider that those advising the cars must know the traffic rules, which would require them to hold a valid drivers license for the area the vehicle is in.
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It makes a lot of sense. Cars do 99% of the work themselves, you only need a small number of drivers, and they can be anywhere in the world.
Re: why is any one supprised (Score:2)
whence such percentages? you don't have any idea what the reality is, and those who do have all the incentive to lie about it.
Re: why is any one supprised (Score:2)
Moreover, it makes zero sense legally. none of the states that allow waymo cars recognize a Filipino license, you have to do a full test to get one if you come from the Philippines.
How come it is legal for a Filipino from sebu or wherever to drive remotely car in those states is a mystery to me.
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They don't need a licence because they aren't actually driving, they are just advising the car. It sees something it doesn't understand, they tell it if it is safe to proceed or not. Liability is on Waymo.
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because they aren't actually driving, they are just advising the car
LOL, really, how do you know what's going on in there, when waymo only mentioned it a few days ago?
Do you work for waymo now in a capacity that doesn't involve signing an NDA or did you just pulled something out of your ass?
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It literally says that in the headline.
Waymo has done this slowly and carefully, and always within the law. It would be very odd if they suddenly decided to illegally employ unqualified drivers.
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It literally says that in the headline.
One must be a literal idiot to take the 'ai' slashvertisements at face value.
Waymo has done this slowly and carefully, and always within the law.
Says you. Are you a credible source? No, you're not.
It would be very odd if they suddenly decided to illegally employ unqualified drivers.
They literally admitted to using Filipino Schumachers to robomusk their cars a few days ago under pressure. Who knows what else will come out when they're pressed more?
For the moment we are sure of one thing only - for every story about "AI" "replacing humans" there have been two of, as someone else put it above, "Actually, Ilotes", i.e. human slaves, making sure "AI" doesn't shit
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They don't need a licence because they aren't actually driving, they are just advising the car.
What does it mean to advise a car? I've never done that.
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Presumably it's stuff like when the car gets stuck because it can't understand what it is seeing or can't see how it should proceed, it asks for assistance. Solves the 0.1% problem, as in your car can be 99.9% antonymous but solving that last 0.1% is exponentially harder, so you have it come to a stop and ask a human for advice.
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> They don't need a licence because they aren't actually driving, they are just advising the car.
But shouldn't someone who is advising someone how to drive a car have the same license as the someone driving the car.
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That's an interesting legal question. Presumably Waymo has cleared it with the cities they operate in, and presumably the cars will not just blindly follow suggestions.
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> That's an interesting legal question.
Yeah, like a driving instructor and a student vs a friend giving advise.
> Presumably Waymo has cleared it with the cities they operate in,
Presumably something, though I'm not sure what.
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I'm sure the exact details of their operation that have to be shared are subject to confidentiality agreements.
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Yes, they don't drive the car. They only intervene with the car gets "stuck". They then advise the car on what to do to get out of the situation... i.e. back up, turn around, etc.
They don't drive the car.
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Quite likely.
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A small number. Like in 1 for every car. And that person must be always connected and see everything the car sees in order to be abler to advise.
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Indeed. This is really all as expected. It also is in no way the problem it gets presented as.
But the clueless will be constantly amazed when they occasionally find out by accident how things actually work. And most people are clueless.
More of the AI patina is rubbing off (Score:3, Interesting)
Amazon Go stores employed hundreds of low-paid Indian workers in offshore sweatshops [businessinsider.com] while pretending their AI was magically determining everything people put into their baskets and carts.
And now, we see Waymo is doing basically the same thing. While the congress-critters were focusing on the off-shoring aspect, I wish they'd asked exactly how many times per trip the Waymo AI "asked" the humans for assistance - that could've been enlightening.
Amazon Go was obviously a scam (Score:1)
When I tried it out with my girlfriend we used the same cart. It took half a day to get our invoices. There was never any doubt about who took what off the shelf. We didn't do anything cute like put stuff back on the shelf or try to hide what we are doing. No computer works that slow, so clearly the reason it took so long was the process was being done by people and we made it hard by having two people share a cart.
I went back later and they had normal checkers at the exit and eventually Amazon killed the w
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Re:More of the AI patina is rubbing off (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More of the AI patina is rubbing off (Score:5, Informative)
Re: More of the AI patina is rubbing off (Score:2)
Really? Why are all sources for this story saying it was revealed only after waymo was grilled in a Congress inquiry, then?
Re: More of the AI patina is rubbing off (Score:4, Informative)
https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05... [waymo.com]
As to how it's reported, I truly think yellow journalism / clickbaiting / scandal-mongering in the media has become endemic. I feel like very few news sources bother or choose to report all the facts that a neutral observer would consider relevant. Instead they just build a "story" to appeal to an audience - using true facts usually, but selectively.
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They could have just said "we hire a lot of Filipinos on the cheap to drive taxis remotely" and no meaning would have been lost.
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again, false statement.
the remote ops do NOT 'drive' the car 100% of the time. what percentage? we dont know but I'd guess its less than 10%, probably even lower.
nothing is level 5 yet. get that in your head. no one claims level 5, either.
what I'd like to know is how often waymo needs 'help' remotely vs tesla vs any other.
I suspect that tesla that is sensor-poor needs 10x as much help as waymo.
(I used to work in car biz, in a self driving car co.)
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Indeed, and if one person can help out (say) 5-10 cars getting to their destinations, then that's a taxi with only a tenth of a driver. They've shaved off 9/10ths, and are angling to make that 19/20ths and so on. It doesn't have to be 100% autonomous to be useful, or indeed "AI driven". In fact, if anything, it tells us something about the car manufacturers that claim to have "full self driving" coming any day now...
Way back in the day, some people found that if you played a recording of a voice agent sayin
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Not who you want in charge of road safety.. (Score:5, Informative)
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To be fair, babies don't really drive a lot of motorcycles.
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Re: Not who you want in charge of road safety.. (Score:2)
Why single babies out, all five won't wear helmets. Actually could be six, if the woman is pregnant.
Anytime I rented a bike there everyone was surprised that I asked for two helmets, that I insisted they are new and that we actually put them on.
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Actually, I wasn't even aware baby helmets exist, but now I know.
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It's pretty common to see a family of five on a motorbike there, no I am not joking.
The economic progress allowing ordinary Indians or Filipinos to buy motor scooters, and the limited carrying capacity has been a big driver of lower fertility rates.
Its really hard to fit six people on a 100cc Honda.
A new trend I've noticed in Australia is seeing a family of four on an e-bike. They'd never do it on a motorcycle, but somehow a cargo e-bike is OK.
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Could have been worse...
- Italians or French (known for their scrupulous obedience to traffic laws)
- British (left? right? It's OK, guvnah!)
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America requires babies to wear helmets when driving motorcycles?
I'm surprised.
I'd have expected American motorcycle babies to be maximising their legal disruptiveness by being required to shoot passers-by. Why not - they're under the age of legal responsibility. Until it comes to the consequences of violating their NDA.
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We teach our babies to never shoot from motorcycles. The recoil can be dangerous.
And rightly so, children should not be taught to use individual firearms.
They're much better suited to crew served weapons, the stationary nature of crew served weapons means their relative individual strength is less of a drawback and it promotes co-operation and teamwork.
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Don't say things like that - it'll inspire fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst Trump and the tecbrodudes.
What are you - some sort of pinko-commie-subresive? Or even (say it not in Gath!) a Canadian?
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I mean, this is a country where babies don't wear motorcycle helmets.
Scarily enough, the Philippines is not the worst place I've seen for driving, easily outperformed by Thailand, where you've a reincarnation religion in a place where life is cheap (combined with an attitude of "if I die, I die"). Pinoys are relative paragons of safe driving in comparison.
The big issue with the Phils is road quality, once you get of the NLEX and SCTEX motorways you've got potholes the size of small lakes.
I'm shocked, shocked (Score:2)
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Foreign pilots do fly in US airspace, however it's way more difficult to get a pilots license around the world than a drivers license is.
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That's way mo information than I expected (Score:1)
What about a driving licence? (Score:2)
If a remote worker operates a vahicle in the US, do they need a valid US driving licence do be legally allowed to do it?
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Not sure that the question of ongoing operation on US roads by someone who remains subject to a different state's licensing requirements has been addressed; since historically it would have been purely hypothetical.
The situation you describe here is actually quite common. From the Texas Department of Public Safety [texas.gov]:
Driving privilege reciprocity allows a person to use a valid, unexpired foreign license to operate a motor vehicle in Texas for up to one year or until a person becomes a Texas resident, whichever date is sooner.
I've encountered similar wording in every US state I've been in.
But in any case, I think they're precisely trying to maneuver themselves out of this situation altogether. Quoting from the article:
“They provide guidance. They do not remotely drive the vehicles,” Peña told the Senate committee.
"Providing guidance" ... Slick. Let's see how that goes.
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But the US in contrast to the Philippines did not sign the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic signatory. The signs in the US are completely different from the ones I had to learn for my EU driving license. And as far as I know, there are even some rules that differ from US state to US state, e.g. turning right on a red traffic light. I would not dare to claim that I know the US rules better than a Waymo car.
Removing Whammo from my phone (Score:2)
I'm removing the app, I don't want to support any American company that off shores critical support like this.
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Fun story time, I do think if more people voted with their wallet instead of belly aching on the internet, things might change and if it doesn't, I can say I tried. I don't think my one vote matters but if everybody followed in the same footsteps, you can bet their business practices would change quickly.
I hope you can find some encouragement in my response. Have a good weekend =).
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You have a good weekend as well.
Time zones (Score:2)
Re: Time zones (Score:2)
I don't think we have enough information to decide if this is a problem. If they are misrepresenting the tech that's a problem. If it's just a backup that seems like good planning. The missing information is an example of the kind of interaction that can occur, and the frequency.
Re: Time zones (Score:1)
Real life Captcha solvers (Score:3)
Re: Real life Captcha solvers (Score:2)
With a 200ms ping time.
Makes sense (Score:2)
Microsoft has Copilot, Waymo has Backseat Driver.
The Things I Do For Money - Northern Pikes (Score:2)
The things I do for money, I'll never understand
I used to be quite critical but now I find I'm cynical
A lady with a starving baby miles away from me
No problems there, just life and death
What the hell is wrong with me
And everybody else
No questions asked
Just get receipts and write them off
Expenses - taxes are a bitch these days
Yet the lady and the baby starve
Waiting for a contribution in a UNICEF box
In a drugstore in this ugly little town
The things I do for money
I'll never understand
The world is just a marble