Secondhand Laptop Market Goes 'Mainstream' Amid Memory Crunch (theregister.com) 36
Sales of refurbished PCs are on the up amid shortages of key components, including memory chips, that are making brand new devices more expensive. From a report: Stats compiled by market watcher Context show sales of refurbished PCs via distribution climbed 7 percent in calendar Q4 across five of the biggest European markets -- Italy, the UK, Germany, Spain, and France.
Affordability is the primary driver in the secondhand segment, the analyst says, with around 40 percent of sales driven by budget-conscious users shopping in the $235 to $355 price band for laptops. The $355 to $475 tier is also expanding -- representing 23 percent of the refurbished market, up from 15 percent a year earlier -- indicating some buyers are prepared to spend a bit more for improved specifications.
Affordability is the primary driver in the secondhand segment, the analyst says, with around 40 percent of sales driven by budget-conscious users shopping in the $235 to $355 price band for laptops. The $355 to $475 tier is also expanding -- representing 23 percent of the refurbished market, up from 15 percent a year earlier -- indicating some buyers are prepared to spend a bit more for improved specifications.
Mainstream, huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't bought a new laptop in years. There's a company in Australia (and many other countries I assume) who acquire ex-govt and ex-lease laptops. Business-grade laptops.
They get a new SSD and a bloat-free copy of windows, a 12-month warranty (excludes battery), and free shipping, for about 1/3 the price of a new machine. Currently typing this on a Lenovo i7-8550 with 12GB memory, a 240GB NVMe and a 500GB SSD in the spare slot. It'll do me for another couple of years.
You can keep windows or install your choice of distro. My "other" laptop has similar specs and runs Debian Trixie.
I hate seeing perfectly usable hardware go to waste, so every time I visit a pensioner with some creaking, wheezing old desktop, I point them to a "new" second-hand laptop.
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Yeah, particularly since specs have been really stable the last decade, and there is no reason to buy a new laptop if the old one is still running smoothly. Unlike in the 90s, when there was a rapid growth in the demand for computing resources, today w/ multi-core CPUs, 64-bit computing and 8GB of RAM and higher, most laptops are likely to last longer
Timing of Windows 10 end of support (Score:2)
Unlike in the 90s, when there was a rapid growth in the demand for computing resources, today w/ multi-core CPUs, 64-bit computing and 8GB of RAM and higher, most laptops are likely to last longer
That's not the impression that I got from doomers griping about Windows 10 end of support coinciding with the memory shortage.
Refurbish the software too (Score:2)
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Games are likely a problem. The current Linux Mint runs just fine on a 2014 Mac Mini and most of those came with 8 GB. I don't know if the current Plasma desktop will run with integrated graphics that old. Picking and choosing may be needed.
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Next we'll be refurbishing old software to run on machines with lower specs.
Some of us are kind of doing that already by running old OS's in VirtualBox, and then running old but useful abandonware for personal tasks on those OS's. It's pretty fun and there's an ocean of useful and interesting software out there.... especially from the 90's. You just have to be careful about where you get it from to avoid the malware aspect. But there are some reliable sites. And it's pretty fascinating using software that my dad used. We're definitely in a weird time.
Yes and no (Score:3)
Complete systems maybe, but if they're refurbs then good luck. The secondhand market is falling apart for machines that have been stripped of RAM and/or storage. You will not find replacements at prices that make any sense. Perfectly good, working machines that have been repaired and restored to working condition can't be sold if they were stripped of RAM/storage prior to sale on the secondhand market.
Re:Yes and no (Score:4, Funny)
The secondhand market is falling apart for machines that have been stripped of RAM and/or storage.
So Apple integrating the RAM into their M-processors was just forward thinking!
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Some of the RAM being close to the CPU is critical, given the speeds being called for. But you have others like some mini-boxes, where there is RAM soldered to the motherboard, but they still have DIMM sockets to add extra RAM, if needed
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But you have others like some mini-boxes, where there is RAM soldered to the motherboard, but they still have DIMM sockets to add extra RAM, if needed
I suspect that in the long term, after the memory crunch, this sort of design is the way to go. Instead of swapping to the soldered SSD's SLC intake buffer, as Macs appear to do [slashdot.org], they could swap to a RAM disk in a CAMM socket, the sequel to SODIMM.
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Or just call it another level of cache - L4 or L5 cache if you will (depending on the outermost cache of the CPU). That way, one can still have one or more CAMM sockets on the motherboard, put in even slower RAM (thereby enabling higher yields and thereby availability) and it won't matter much in terms of performance, since there is still another layer of cache to keep feeding the CPU
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Some of the RAM being close to the CPU is critical, given the speeds being called for.
The RAM was integrated into the CPU package to lower the power requirements of the memory bus. With an electrically short memory bus, series instead of parallel termination can be used. The newest DRAM specifications allow the use of half of the signalling voltage for exactly this configuration.
Speed was never a consideration because the memory bus was never long enough for that to matter. At about 125 picoseconds per inch, the RAM was never that far away.
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The secondhand market is falling apart for machines that have been stripped of RAM and/or storage.
So Apple integrating the RAM into their M-processors was just forward thinking!
Until the advent of CAMM2 (and the inminent advent of SO-CAMM2) the only way to have LP-DDR4 or LP-DDR5 was to solder it to the mobo, as per JEDEC Spec. If the Laptop had SO-DIMM, it used DRR4 or DDR5, which consumes more power AND generates more heat, not ideal for Laptops, Tablets or Phones.
So Apple integrating the memory in the same organic substrateas the processor was not forward thinking, but rather, something dictated by JEDEC, product requirements and economies of scale
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NAND storage is also nontrivial to remove/replace on recent MacBooks (iirc). Sadly, used MacBooks are quite expensive.
Who would have thought ... (Score:2)
... that electricity guzzling AI would actually reduce waste? At least some. Kind of.
Can't wait (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a feeling that the next Slashdot story will be about the amount of personal information and private pictures being recovered from secondhand laptops whose owners thought the HD was wiped.
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Teach everyone to run Cipher on an "empty" Windows machine as a minimum before giving it away / selling it with the OS. /w:c" or if you have other drives, change as appropriate.
"cipher
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A PROTIP for this is that many SSDs have an erase feature. Good laptops let you access it from the BIOS. Basically everything on the SSD is encrypted with an internal key, and the wipe process simply regenerates that key and overwrites the old one.
Also good for desktop Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Just remember, if a company doesn't support Linux it means they like abusing you with enshittification. Stop worrying about the year of the Linux desktop, and instead think about the year the Windows desktop abandons you.
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Put a desktop distro on an old Laptop and you no longer have to worry about [...] arbitrary end of support deadlines.
1.) Even Linux Distros have "Arbitrary support dates". I guess there are not too many distros that will support a version released in 2021 beyond 2032 without making you go to the next version of the distro, with newer kernel (which may or may not work in your equipment), new builds of the Apps (which again may or may not work in your equipment), and potentially a new UI (as your desktop/window manager and aps may have evolved their UIs in the interim)...
2.) In the end, and OS is a means to run Apps. As the
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There's also the small issue of Linux dropping 32-bit support going forward. Sure, if one has a 32-bit only CPU, one can run an old distro. But will it still require periodic security updates?
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There's also the small issue of Linux dropping 32-bit support going forward. Sure, if one has a 32-bit only CPU, one can run an old distro. But will it still require periodic security updates?
For the last year and pocket change, I've been giving away 32Bit only Laptops with Linux. Mostly to my Venezuelan country-folk and cuban visitors. I settled for Mageia for "Upper end" 32bit machines (think Intel T2080 or similar ilk) and AntiX Linux for lower end Machines (Think P4 or P3).
Both will be supported until 2028 at the very least.
Yes, one could install Win10 IoT on the T2080 types (and the P4 and P3 only get to Win7 POSReady Tops) and get done with it. But it is slower, and the license is a grey a
Even netbooks have had x86-64 for 16 years (Score:2)
Even Linux Distros have "Arbitrary support dates". I guess there are not too many distros that will support a version released in 2021 beyond 2032 without making you go to the next version of the distro
Most well-known GNU/Linux distributions aren't charging for the next version, nor increasing the system requirements quite as sharply as Microsoft did from Windows 10 to Windows 11. The system requirements of Windows 10 differed little from Windows Vista's recommended specs. Windows 11 began to require much newer features in the CPU, particularly mode-based execution control (to limit the damage that an old vulnerable driver can cause) and an ongoing commitment from the CPU manufacturer to update microcode
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Yeah, 4GB was the maximum that could arguably do win32, if one ignores the memory that can't be addressed due to it being reserved for other functionality. So anything 8GB and above would automatically have 64-bit support. My point was that if someone is running a 32-bit OS, even an i686 kernel, then one will be out of luck. Maybe it is worth moving to NetBSD then, which is one platform that doesn't seem to abandon older architectures
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And there's the small issue of X v Wayland. Which desktop? LTS v today's hotness.
And systemd.
Linux is not the same as Windows, but it struggle with the same software complexities. Incompatible stuff, hardware support, UI complaints, really only viruses are much of a distinguishing trait, and well the recent Telnet debacle shows Linux is not immune to troubles.
Recommending Linux as a Windows alternative is disingenuous. Many valid reasons to not jump into the Linux world. Even Apple is an alternative.
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Upgrading Memory on Second Hand Laptops (Score:2)
Problem with "old-ish"second hand laptops is that, for the most part, the memory and SSD, while adequate for the laptop's release date, is insuficient for the needs of today, and sourcing Memory and SSD upgrades for an old Laptop is prohibitive in the current climate, even taking into account the savings in the rest of the laptop by going used.
At this point, by sheer volume, HP, Dell, and Lenovo will secure better prices on the RAM and SSD than you, or a refurbisher/recycler. Of course, if you find a used L
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>"Problem with "old-ish"second hand laptops is that, for the most part, the memory and SSD, while adequate for the laptop's release date, is insuficient for the needs of today"
That is extremely true IF you are try to run MS-Windows on them. But if you install Linux, it will cut disk usage in half and RAM use by perhaps 25%. And it will perform much faster at the same time, offer updates for way longer, and protect your freedom and privacy at the same time.
Linux is a great solution to recycling computer
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But if you install Linux, it will cut disk usage in half and RAM use by perhaps 25%.
True, for workloads that don't involve a lot of web browsing. For web browsing, I've seen a single article on Ars Technica open 40 or more Firefox content processes: one for each origin that is running its scripts in the document.
Used Thinkpad (Score:2)
I bought a used Thinkpad last year. A few years old. Amazing computer. It looked brand new so probably was from some clueless corporation as "surplus".
500 GB hard drive, 16 GB memory Intel Core i7 vPro
$200
Installed Linux and runs great.
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I bought a used Thinkpad last year. A few years old. Amazing computer. It looked brand new so probably was from some clueless corporation as "surplus".
I also have a used Thinkpad that seemed intact, except for some wear on the outer case corners. I'm guessing it was always used with a dock, so nobody has touched the keyboard or the display.
OTOH, I also have a used Chromebook with a school's logo painted on the top cover, but otherwise looked intact. It doesn't have a docking connector (traditional or USB-C) so it could be a "surplus" item, although that too seems unlikely for a school.