Startup Pitches 'Brainless Clones' To Serve the Role of Backup Human Bodies (technologyreview.com) 163
MIT Technology Review discovered that startup R3 Bio has pitched an ethically and scientifically explosive long-term vision beyond its public work on non-sentient monkey "organ sacks": creating human "brainless clones" or replacement bodies for organs as part of an extreme life-extension agenda. From the report: Imagine it like this: a baby version of yourself with only enough of a brain structure to be alive in case you ever need a new kidney or liver. Or, alternatively, he has speculated, you might one day get your brain placed into a younger clone. That could be a way to gain a second lifespan through a still hypothetical procedure known as a body transplant.
The fuller context of R3's proposals, as well as activities of another stealth startup with related goals, have not previously been reported. They've been kept secret by a circle of extreme life-extension proponents who fear that their plans for immortality could be derailed by clickbait headlines and public backlash. And that's because the idea can sound like something straight from a creepy science fiction film. One person who heard R3's clone presentation, and spoke on the condition of anonymity, was left reeling by its implications and shaken by [R3 founder John Schloendorn's] enthusiastic delivery. The briefing, this person said, was like a "close encounter of the third kind" with "Dr. Strangelove." [...]
MIT Technology Review found no evidence that R3 has cloned anyone, or even any animal bigger than a rodent. What we did find were documents, additional meeting agendas, and other sources outlining a technical road map for what R3 called "body replacement cloning" in a 2023 letter to supporters. That road map involved improvements to the cloning process and genetic wiring diagrams for how to create animals without complete brains. A main purpose of the fundraising, investors say, was to support efforts to try these techniques in monkeys from a base in the Caribbean. That offered a path to a nearer-term business plan for more ethical medical experiments and toxicology testing -- if the company could develop what it now calls monkey "organ sacks." However, this work would clearly inform any possible human version.
The fuller context of R3's proposals, as well as activities of another stealth startup with related goals, have not previously been reported. They've been kept secret by a circle of extreme life-extension proponents who fear that their plans for immortality could be derailed by clickbait headlines and public backlash. And that's because the idea can sound like something straight from a creepy science fiction film. One person who heard R3's clone presentation, and spoke on the condition of anonymity, was left reeling by its implications and shaken by [R3 founder John Schloendorn's] enthusiastic delivery. The briefing, this person said, was like a "close encounter of the third kind" with "Dr. Strangelove." [...]
MIT Technology Review found no evidence that R3 has cloned anyone, or even any animal bigger than a rodent. What we did find were documents, additional meeting agendas, and other sources outlining a technical road map for what R3 called "body replacement cloning" in a 2023 letter to supporters. That road map involved improvements to the cloning process and genetic wiring diagrams for how to create animals without complete brains. A main purpose of the fundraising, investors say, was to support efforts to try these techniques in monkeys from a base in the Caribbean. That offered a path to a nearer-term business plan for more ethical medical experiments and toxicology testing -- if the company could develop what it now calls monkey "organ sacks." However, this work would clearly inform any possible human version.
I've seen this movie (Score:5, Insightful)
The Island. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
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Rumored to be plagiarized off a low-budget '70s film. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
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One of the writers for The Island: "Alex Kurtzman".
Oh, of course.
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Rumored nothing - it's a direct ~~clone~~ , I mean, copy of it with Michael Bay lens flares.
Re: I've seen this movie (Score:2)
Thanks. I was just about to post the same thing.
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Spock: Is there something wrong with the one I have?
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Dr. Gillian Taylor: "Do you like Italian?"
Spock: "No."
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"Brain and brain, what is brain??" One of my favorite episodes, despite its reputation for awfulness.
Anyway, happy April Fools' Day.
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I was thinking the same thing, The Island really is what they are promoting here, without saying that the clones are actually alive and not "brainless".
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I mean, I prefer the brainless version and if so....what's the controversy?
Please SIGN ME THE FUCK UP!!
Are there that few people that would be willing to do just about anything to live longer or near forever???
If you don't have a very healthy sense of self preservations, then please drop out of line, but if given half the chance for much longer life, potentially having a young body again....PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY and put me near the head of the line.
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Who cares?
I mean, I prefer the brainless version and if so....what's the controversy?
Please SIGN ME THE FUCK UP!!
Are there that few people that would be willing to do just about anything to live longer or near forever???
If you don't have a very healthy sense of self preservations, then please drop out of line, but if given half the chance for much longer life, potentially having a young body again....PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY and put me near the head of the line.
Do you want to end up tortured forever like Prometheus? Because this is literally - and I mean LITERALLY - how you end up tortured forever like Prometheus.
Remember, kids! A technology that can keep you alive forever, can be used by debtors, governments, and other similar psychopaths to keep you alive. Forever .
"Mercy! Mercy! Even if you are only one more dream, have mercy. Take me on board. Take me, even if you strike me dead. But in the name of all mercies do not fade away and leave me in this horrible la
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Who cares?
I mean, I prefer the brainless version and if so....what's the controversy?
Please SIGN ME THE FUCK UP!!
...PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY and put me near the head of the line.
Frankly, I think your take on this IS the concern. It would be a near immediate upheaval of society, with those that can obtain it amassing great power over time, and population controls being needed once fewer people are dying.
As a side note, Cory Doctorow's Down And Out In Magic Kingdom and Walkaway both touch on some of these pseudo-immortal people in a very interesting way. Both books are terrific and even hold up to multiple readings.
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I dunno about so many people I really really like being ME and would like to do so for as long as possible....and would do almost anything to prolong that.
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Who cares?
Umm... you missed the premise:
If you are down with this, the CCP already practice it with Uyghur donors. Pay your money, and someone will "donate" whatever organs you need.
Re:I've seen this movie (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that the people who could afford this and would do it are exactly the people the rest of society is better off without.
Re: I've seen this movie (Score:4, Interesting)
The book Altered Carbon also uses this theme.
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The book Altered Carbon also uses this theme.
People That theme was never part of the deal!
Corporation I have altered the carbon, pray I don’t alter it further.
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Yep, The Island and Altered Carbon (also an excellent TV series) were the first two works of sci-fi that came to mind, but Altered Carbon is a much closer match where the clones were brainless vs. The Island (if I say any more it'd be a major spoiler for sure, even mentioning that it contains the concept is a bit of a spoiler).
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Also features strongly in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan saga
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The quote from Alex Blechman also comes to mind:
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Also, The Sixth Day https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
But... (Score:5, Funny)
But what if I need a piece of brain? Abby what, you say?
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Frau Blucher!
Science Fiction Becomes Science Fact (Score:2)
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It's similar only instead of growing the bodies, some patients are intentionally put into comas when having surgery. A company charged with caring for the coma patients then harvests the organs for other people for fun and profit. I remember it being a pretty good 70's investigation thriller movie.
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Its a pitch about "what if" - not something they've figured out how to do.
Such press releases basically ARE just science fiction that they're hoping to get an investor for to MAYBE turn into fact (or not - they'll be rich when/if it fails anyways).
The God-fearing and the Accountants (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd love to have a nice slab of spare parts, custom made for me in case of injury.
You'd have to fight back the idiots who would claim the bodies had souls. That's probably the biggest hurdle, the people who would violently try to stop you because of their sky daddy fantasy.
But even if you defeat them, you have the accountants. That spare body isn't going to grow and remain healthy without a lot of effort. It will need to be fed and cleaned and exercised. During growth it will need to be monitored and probably adjusted with chemical cocktails to ensure it turns out similarly to you - you did want all the bones to be the same size as yours so you can harvest those, right? As long as you're cloning an entire body, you'll want to correct any genetic defects you can - especially for those things that might lead to needing a clone body for spare parts. You don't want to get liver cancer only to find your clone has it too. That's all going to cost a lot of money.
In the end, the real solution is to be able to grow parts as they're needed, not grow an entire body requiring expensive maintenance that you might have to throw away after you harvest one critical part.
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Not necessarily true - it's much, much easier to correct a defect when the organism is a single cell than once it is fully grown.
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You seem to be assuming no accidents.
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Speaking of souls, for a good laugh read: Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife, by Mary Roach. She goes into various efforts to measure souls. She writes in a very comedic fashion and quite enjoyable even as she studies the phenomenon seriously. In the end, they all come up empty. The closest she can come to something spooky are anecdotes from people who have "experienced" dead people.
According to Bart Ehrman, roughly 8-10% (I think he references a higher number but I'd rather be a bit cautious here) of peo
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Also yes, cloning a single organ would both make more sense and not be a crime against humanity.
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You don't get to create and then destroy life just to prolong yours.
That's what you do every time you eat. Are you monstrous?
It is a monstrous suggestion.
Only Jainism opposes it.
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What about stem cell embryo research? Or sperm research? Does that bother you?
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... or killing babies to harvest stem cells. Helping people conceive is also fine.
Devil's advocate... helping people conceive often involves fertilizing multiple eggs and throwing away viable embryos. At a minimum, you've slid into a grey area for your position. As you noted above, "You don't get to create and then destroy life just to prolong yours. It is a monstrous suggestion." Are viable embryos "life"?
Now, what if the embryos were genetically altered such that they won't produce much of a brain - something unlikely to be a sentient being? At what point is it no longer OK to discard
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If you were creating a person, it would be evil, but we're talking about a lump of meat without higher brain function. Your inability to recognize what a brain is or accept your mortality, driving you to believe without evidence in an immortal soul? That's you failing hard at growing up, clinging to childish fantasy as a coping mechanism.
That's fine, but the world would be a much nicer place if you'd be ashamed enough of it to keep it to yourself.
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I would ask what part of you is missing that your reaction is not one of revulsion. And why you are unashamed of its absence.
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Yeah, that's because you see the meat as more than meat. You see some metaphysical attribute that must be respected.
That's crazy.
I care about the mind, and as a consequence the body housing it. A mindless body is just meat.
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Do you not possess an instinctive revulsion when presented with an idea so gruesome?
I'm curious... do you find this idea to be significantly more gruesome than harvesting organs from a dead body and using them in a different living person? Or how about using organs from other animals as transplants in humans?
Personally, those seem more gruesome to me than if I had a spare kidney grown for myself from my own DNA. You even noted that growing single organs would be more acceptable - so how about if they grew a kidney, liver, pancreas, gallbladder, and stomach at the same time? The slope is ge
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Re:The God-fearing and the Accountants (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd love to have a nice slab of spare parts, custom made for me in case of injury.
You'd have to fight back the idiots who would claim the bodies had souls. That's probably the biggest hurdle, the people who would violently try to stop you because of their sky daddy fantasy.
But even if you defeat them, you have the accountants. That spare body isn't going to grow and remain healthy without a lot of effort. It will need to be fed and cleaned and exercised. During growth it will need to be monitored and probably adjusted with chemical cocktails to ensure it turns out similarly to you - you did want all the bones to be the same size as yours so you can harvest those, right? As long as you're cloning an entire body, you'll want to correct any genetic defects you can - especially for those things that might lead to needing a clone body for spare parts. You don't want to get liver cancer only to find your clone has it too. That's all going to cost a lot of money.
In the end, the real solution is to be able to grow parts as they're needed, not grow an entire body requiring expensive maintenance that you might have to throw away after you harvest one critical part.
This is one case where the sky daddy freaks could be useful to stop an extremely dangerously stupid move "forward." Because we live in this world, in this time, if this goes forward, it will 100% be used to extend the lives of the ultra-rich, while the rest of us remain fodder for their machinations. People want to believe these types of advances would be useful to the majority, but in this reality, here on Earth early in the 21st century A.D. it will absolutely be the playground for those who would like to term themselves God Emperors for Eternity. Think if Donald Trump and Vlad Putin's brains could be placed into younger bodies. Think how much damage they could cause when they never have the opportunity to die.
Aside from that, living forever doesn't sound like all that great a deal in this existence. We're already talking about moving the retirement age out further, as our life expectancy continues to drop. If it were possible to live forever, retirement would become another luxury reserved for the ultra-rich, and us normies would simply be stuck working drudge jobs for eternity. No thanks. I'll take my chances on going to sky daddy's Hell or the oblivion I think more likely in death over an eternity working in a job I only care enough about to keep myself and my loved ones taken care of. I don't want an eternity of obligation. Death is rest. Life is responsibility. As much as I like scientific advances, I don't want it taking away my potential to eventually lay down and be done with all this shit.
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This is one case where the sky daddy freaks could be useful to stop an extremely dangerously stupid move "forward." Because we live in this world, in this time, if this goes forward, it will 100% be used to extend the lives of the ultra-rich, while the rest of us remain fodder for their machinations.
Meh.
It would undoubtedly be very expensive at first, and therefore only available to the very wealth (probably not ultra-wealthy -- even without automation, caring for such a clone wouldn't be a full-time job, so call it maybe $30k/year -- within the reach of the upper middle class). But competition would drive automation, and we already have most of the techniques required, having developed them to deal with coma patients and the like, but at lower cost because this case would be dealing with a fundamen
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Why would these people (and I use the word loosely) care of poor people can afford their services? They're poor, and therefore inferior, and therefore disposable, and not even really people. If you're not rich, you deserve to die quickly. But we must do everything we possibly can to make our masters immortal, to ensure we're never without their benevolent control.
Just ask them. They'll say the words out loud. They really are that arrogant.
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The question is... can you build a body without a brain? I'll bet you actually can't, but our victorian way of thinking about the body doesn't yet know that. What I'm getting at is that our bodies are far more interconnected than we really give them credit. Things that happen in our guts, for example, can have a profound effect on our brains - and quite likely the opposite too. I'll bet that from your head to your toes, your brain is involved in the development, maintenance and operation of all those body p
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You can absolutely grow a body without the portions of the brain that support higher function. We know, because every once in a while it happens naturally. If you're up to creating a gene-corrected clone, you're up to breaking the bits that result in extended brain development.
Now, can you do it easily with gene editing, do you introduce something into the environment, do you brute-force break something mechanically? No idea, but you have a lot of more difficult problems to solve before you get there. T
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You can absolutely grow a body without the portions of the brain that support higher function. We know, because every once in a while it happens naturally. If you're up to creating a gene-corrected clone, you're up to breaking the bits that result in extended brain development.
Now, can you do it easily with gene editing, do you introduce something into the environment, do you brute-force break something mechanically? No idea, but you have a lot of more difficult problems to solve before you get there. This particular concern is far from a show-stopper.
When these people fail, they'll be paid by some wanna-be forever person to just raise clones to adulthood, then take their brain and pretend they never had them. They've already set aside basic morality around the issue. It's just a matter of a small monetary donation on the scale of the Elon Musks of the world to get them to go all the way.
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In the end, the real solution is to be able to grow parts as they're needed, not grow an entire body requiring expensive maintenance that you might have to throw away after you harvest one critical part.
I've been expecting that eventual outcome since the early 2000s when we (as in someone in an academic lab) grew a 3rd kidney in a mouse by grafting stem cells from a donor.
Re: God forbid Accountability come into play. (Score:2)
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The "shitty life choices" that cause harm are what make life fun and worth living.
I guess self-deletion is part of people’s “retirement” plan then. Because you’ll be paying for those shitty life choices at some point, no matter what.
If you thought people forced to spend 90% of their life savings on the last six months of their life was expensive, just wait until you hear the price of ONE shitty life choice from Clones R Us.
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The "shitty life choices" that cause harm are what make life fun and worth living.
100% as long as you don’t suddenly change your mind about taking full responsibility for your actions when suddenly what all the statistics say is likely to happen, happens. With a for profit insurance medical care system this means saying too bad and letting you suffer or die. Without a home because you can’t work anymore you get thrown to the streets where we all have to deal with you for up to several years before our problem goes away. If we had a system of say medical care for all, very
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Speaking of growth, did the human living in Reality actually work to avoid all the shit life choices that GAVE them cancer?
Shocking how we'll find those clones to be anomaly and disease-free, because common fucking sense. God forbid we ask humans to be accountable for their shitty life choices that literally create the harm they're paying to migitate.
Christ, you're a miserable fuck. Did all those children with cancer make poor life choices?
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Christ, you're a miserable fuck. Did all those children with cancer make poor life choices?
It is rare that I see something you post that I agree with, but words cannot express just how much I agree with the above. The GP really is a miserable fuck.
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Did all those children with cancer make poor life choices?
Christ, youâ(TM)re an arrogant fuck.
Yes, defending victims is a famously arrogant activity.
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It won't be that way, at least for the first several decades. Bodies need to be exercised to grow properly. After that, I suppose we might be able to slip an AI operated control inside the brain cavity, and have it exercise the body properly...but this opens the door to other problems.
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It won't be that way, at least for the first several decades. Bodies need to be exercised to grow properly. After that, I suppose we might be able to slip an AI operated control inside the brain cavity, and have it exercise the body properly...but this opens the door to other problems.
Muscles need to be exercised. Not brains.
I never really imagined that a yoga workout could burn over 800 calories until I challenged myself to it. Then I saw the results myself. It doesn't take MASSIVE moves to exercise a body. It takes electrical charges. Nothing more.
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Muscles, bones, tendons, ligaments...
The all need exercise to develop properly.
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Speaking of growth, did the human living in Reality actually work to avoid all the shit life choices that GAVE them cancer?
Shocking how we'll find those clones to be anomaly and disease-free, because common fucking sense. God forbid we ask humans to be accountable for their shitty life choices that literally create the harm they're paying to migitate.
What shit life choices leads to breast cancer, brain tumor, most cancers or illness? Think and reflect before you write that nonsense.
We're living on (Score:2)
Cool ! (Score:3)
They can serve as presidents. As said previously: You won't have to vote. You'll just have to build them in factories.
Brain transplant? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you could transplant your brain into a younger body, why a clone?
Surely you'd pick a better body if you could? One that's taller, better looking, stronger, not suffering from any genetic risk factors you might have etc.
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The only donor bodies that aren't going to treat the transplant as an act of war are clones or heavily immunosuppressed; and it's probably more plausible to assume that you'll be able to clone a human like a sheep than assume that you'll be making some fundamental breakthroughs in immunology to deal more elegantly with unmatched hosts.
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The only donor bodies that aren't going to treat the transplant as an act of war are clones
This story is about clones.
The word "Clones" appears in the headline, summary, and article.
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There is a small problem here: If all the dudes buy themselves taller bodies, the average size of males raises. Then to stay above average they'll have to buy other even taller bodies ad infinitum. That's actually a great marketing strategy.
Old news! (Score:5, Funny)
This technology has been around for decades. I know because my boss is definitely one of these brainless clones.
To what end? (Score:2)
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Absolutely the latter - we have no reason to believe the brain is special and not subject to age-related degredation.
On the other hand, if your brain was in good enough shape wouldn't you like the option to have a healthier body?
A bit too early (Score:2)
Say, 200 years or more. But I am sure they will get investors from rich morons that are afraid to die.
Oops (Score:2)
Oops, go to all the trouble of living "forever" only to find yourself assassinated.
The Long Khan (Score:2)
If you have to hide your plans (Score:2)
to avoid a public backlash, then you are, in fact, an evil conspiracy.
Fortunately, the odds of them ever selling more than stock certificates is slim.
Tell Sci-Fi stories = make money? (Score:3)
They cannot do any thing related to this. They cannot build a human body (except the normal, 9 months + aging method), they cannot stop the brain from forming, they cannot transplant the brain.
All they did is take an existing science fiction plot point, pretend they had something 'new' and told it to people.
Well, I need funding too. I want to build a warp core device using two nacelles to create a faster than light starship. I suspect there are logical, peaceful aliens nearby looking for other species that have FTL, so we need to do this fast before these alien 'Vulcans' leave the area.
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Ai, non-american, or Autistic?
Because you failed to detect massive amounts of sarcasm.
Just use your average brainless maga supporter (Score:3)
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One will escape and (Score:2)
...get elected. Brains are optional in politics.
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Body parts are only part of the solution (Score:2)
Brainless clones? (Score:2)
Spares, by Michael Marshall Smith (Score:2)
"Michael Marshall Smith's 1996 novel Spares, in which the hero liberates intelligent clones from a "spare farm", was optioned by DreamWorks in the late 1990s, but was never made. It remains unclear if the story inspired The Island, so Marshall Smith did not consider it worthwhile to pursue legal action over the similarities."
Anyway, we're all saying the same thing here. This is all Torment Nexus stuff. We know how this ends.
I miss the ol' April First posts... (Score:2)
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Me: Surely this is an April Fools post!
[Exams the links]
Me: Holy fuck! One of these stories was posted over a week ago! It's not!
April Fools? Please, please... (Score:2)
... please let this be a very well-done and highly polished April Fool's Joke.
Most days now it's hard to tell if some piece of news is an Onion article or the terrible, horrifying, twisted, sad truth -- usually it's the latter now.
I'm calling it, Prior Art Exists! (Score:2)
Voting (Score:2)
No Disney jokes? (Score:2)
Where have I seen this before... (Score:2)
Oh, right, part of DC's redo of the story of Krypton in the nineties.
Expect the entire (fake) pro-life and all evangelicals to be outside their door screaming, and assassinations.
Heinlein wrote books about it... (Score:2)
Did y'all read "I will Fear no Evil", "Time Enough for Love", "Methuselah's Children" ?
I'm all in. Let's do it!
If i were a betting person i'd also clone an opposite-sex version of myself, ya know, in case i wanted to transition...
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Every day is April Fools day. Just look at most examples of journalism out there, especially the most financially successful and thriving.
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