Mobile Phones To Be Banned In Schools In England Under New Plans (theguardian.com) 95
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Guardian: A ban on mobile phones in schools in England is to be introduced by the government to ensure that "critical safeguarding legislation" is passed. The government will table an amendment to the children's wellbeing and schools bill in the House of Lords after the bill was held up by peers on opposition benches. It will make existing guidance on mobile phone bans in schools statutory, a move that ministers have resisted until now.
The government had consistently argued that the vast majority of schools had already banned mobile phones, and that there was no need to add a legal requirement. They finally capitulated, however, describing it as "a pragmatic measure" to get the bill through. [...] The bill is regarded by many as the biggest piece of child protection legislation in decades and includes proposals for a compulsory register for children who are not in school, a crackdown on profiteering in children's social care, and a "single unique identifier" to help agencies track a child's welfare.
The government had consistently argued that the vast majority of schools had already banned mobile phones, and that there was no need to add a legal requirement. They finally capitulated, however, describing it as "a pragmatic measure" to get the bill through. [...] The bill is regarded by many as the biggest piece of child protection legislation in decades and includes proposals for a compulsory register for children who are not in school, a crackdown on profiteering in children's social care, and a "single unique identifier" to help agencies track a child's welfare.
Re:Took You Long Enough (Score:4, Funny)
Its England, not New England. They'll be just fine.
A new National ID Card to track people (Score:4, Insightful)
Generating a new national ID number ("single unique identifier) for students is the headline here.
"The bill is regarded by many as the biggest piece of child protection legislation in decades and includes proposals for a compulsory register for children who are not in school, a crackdown on profiteering in children’s social care, and a “single unique identifier” to help agencies track a child’s welfare."
So they add a new government ID number for each student which most likely is:
- Free of all the legal protections on driver's licenses and other government ID cards
- Free to be linked to government databases, health records, etc. for each child
- Free to use as a new unique lifetime profile key for each person as they attend school
The other ones such as a register for children not in school and a "crackdown on profiteering in children's social care" affect the poorest and poorest immigrants subsisting on government handouts.
Re:A new National ID Card to track people (Score:4, Informative)
We already have NI numbers and NHS numbers in the UK, each of which is a unique identifier and a national scheme. This is in no sense an ID card
Re: A new National ID Card to track people (Score:2)
Which is why it will probably have less protection and be free to use because "we only want to protect.th children".
And once established, do you think that number won't continue to identify the adults once they reach that age?
Re: (Score:2)
What protections do you imagine are in place for the NHS number and NI number that will not be in place for this? I use the word imagine advisedly
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not saying the idea is nefarious, just stupid. You already have one too many IDs.
Re: (Score:2)
If I had to guess, then ironically it would be exactly because of data protection and privacy, which restricts the re-use of sensitive personal information across government departments
Re: (Score:2)
You entirely missed the point there. Those numbers have laws surrounding how they can be used. This number will NOT. Address THAT issue if you wish to defend this action.
Re: (Score:2)
Its England
Stabbed. Not shot.
Re:Took You Long Enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
do you not use knives in kitchens?
oh of course you dont ive seen your food.
Re: (Score:3)
do you not use knives in kitchens?
oh of course you dont ive seen your food.
There actually was a push in the UK a few years ago to outlaw pointy kitchen knives, but it met with great resistance and was dropped.
However, the point remains that stabbings in the UK are actually less common that stabbings in the US. This points out that while many think that guns are the cause of the US' violence problem, the real problem is deeper: US culture is just more violent.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Screwdrivers. Ask Bernhard Goetz.
Folding blade pocket knifes make little difference whether locking or not. Most "working knives" are fixed blade and therefore marginally legal even under UK law. Go ahead. Prove I'm not on my way to my chef's job. Locking/not locking makes little difference when commiting assaults. It does affect a knife's use as a tool. Non locking blades are definitely weapons. Period.
UK law obviously written by a bunch of aristocrats who have never gotten their hands dirty or calloused
Re: (Score:3)
UK law allows fixed blade carry with a "good reason" as a defence but that's the key word. A chef with a roll of knives on his way to work is a good reason. A sailor carrying a sheath knife is a good reason. A guy out camping is a good reason. Even so cops could totally hold and charge you all the same
Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
The fact that funding in the USA depends on race, religion, if you are red/blue, etc etc etc is complete BS.
Funding should be by pupil, same amount no matter where you are, who you are
The USA is Fk'd, its so broken I doubt its worth saving.
Re: (Score:2)
The biggest problem with education in the US is the educators. There is no getting past that. Record spending per pupil, lots and lots of restorative this restorative that bias opportunities toward demographics that the left claims were historically disadvantage. The one consistent outcome is poorer outcomes no matter what color or economic stratum a kid belongs too.
Modern classroom theory and pedagogical theory are obviously broken. This is the only possible valid conclusion anyone rationally looking a
Re: (Score:2)
LOTS of that money gets funnelled into sports, particularly the "football team"
The you have BS education, blatantly lying about how "great the USA is". Its does NOT tell the truth.
No National curriculum because "freedom". Religion is also harmful and is pushing deeper into education.
Having to spend money on armed security at schools because of the insane gun culture
This is what produces
Re: (Score:2)
The results from those tests are used for firing teachers / faculty (Russian roulette style), setting funding for budgets, and being used as justification for what ever angle a politician wants in a speech. (I did[n't do] that! That was[n't] my policy!)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Not really (Score:2)
"The biggest problem with education in the US is the educators. There is no getting past that. Record spending per pupil"
Too bad you know nothing about anything. Educators are buying school supplies because they don't have enough budget to run their classes. If you actually knew any teachers you wouldn't talk this ignorant shit. It's administration and consultants that are eating up all of the funding.
Re: (Score:2)
Citation needed.
Re: (Score:2)
And you now have a redo prep who uses federal funds to punish states he does not like, education, FEMA, etc etc etc etc...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Schools are mismanaged, not underfunded. We spend plenty, we just don't spend it well.
Bold move, but jolly good! (Score:5, Insightful)
Study after study shows kids do better in school, are more engaged, and more social when phones are out of the picture. 'Social' media is exactly the opposite, it's isolating and anxiety inducing for a lot of teens.
I think there's a lot of adults I know who might be better off too. I definitely have some friends / colleagues who waste so much time on it, and it mostly just seems to make them anxious or irate -- but as far as the platforms are considered, who cares as long as they're 'engaged' with it...
Re: (Score:1)
Re: Bold move, but jolly good! (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Unless ofv the Ipads that are allowed are ones enrolled in some kind of management scheme that only allow certain apps and loc away anny posibility to use bg, rhen they can just block ip ranges of the bekend of the apps they have no need for at the schools firewall and bingo no social media for you until scoool i out for the day
Wow, did you actually read what you typed?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Study after study show kids do better in school, are more engaged, and more social when Pokemon cards were taken out of school.
No shit Sherlock. At school, you are supposed to be paying attention to the curriculum. There is nothing special about phones or Pokemon cards here. Whatever the full details of the scheme here, they have gone too far for reasons NOT related to helping children focus in schools.
If a teacher finds a student doodling on paper when they should be paying attention, what does the teacher
Re:In other news (Score:5, Informative)
as students can't call for help.
On their way to and from school, pupils/students have their mobile phones, so there is no change in their ability to call for help on the public street. Inside school, they can call the staff for help.
Also you're missing that this policy isn't new. The only change is will become compulsory for the 0.2% primary schools and 10% secondary schools who still hadn't banned mobile phones.
TFA:
Research from the children's commissioner for England last year found that 99.8% of primary schools and 90% of secondary schools already had policies in place that limited or restricted the use of mobile phones during the school day.
The policy: https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]
Re: (Score:2)
The old guidance had "not seen, not heard" as a possible policy in the guidance. Only the most recent guidance made forbidding possession the clear default, likely triggered by the opposition amendment.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The old guidance had "not seen, not heard" as a possible policy in the guidance. Only the most recent guidance made forbidding possession the clear default, likely triggered by the opposition amendment.
This is not something that NEEDS a law. The end of the article has a quote quite fitting for the bureaucratic totalitarians out there:
“Statutory guidance will give school leaders the clarity they need to implement a ban, and will remove any ambiguity or differences between how schools approach smartphone policies.”
'cause God forbid there be any differences or variance in policies or that some school not receive proper "statutory guidance"!
there was a time when the Britain made held itself opposite of
states where “everything that was not forbidden was compulsory.”
(it was popular in the 1930s apparently https://quoteinvestigator.com/... [quoteinvestigator.com])
what was that quote about "the sneaking suspicion that someone somewhere might be having a good time" ? ( appa
Re: (Score:2)
bleh. too many quotes! (i thought of the sneaking suspicion first.... but then the forbidden/compulsory seemed more apt. ah well... so much for my punchy missive )
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe, but I suspect it was the schools with the most dregs which avoided the harsh disciplinary road of banning possession just to avoid trouble and for their perception of social justice. So kids in the good schools get a true mobile ban and the rest gets the dregs being disruptive and teachers scared to intervene because of fuzzy rules and no support from the top.
Re:In other news (Score:5, Insightful)
> School violence projected to skyrocket in the United Kingdom as students can't call for help.
Monthly school shootings are not in fashion in the UK.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Google also referenced a story about an 8 year old caught with one, all the ref's were FB, IG or X so didn't copy them. This is one state in the first 4 months of the year.
Re: (Score:2)
Why can't students call for help because of no mobile phones? This doesn't apply to staff, or the countless phones throughout the school.
Wait... Did you raise your kid to tell them to call you on their mobile if they are bullied, or to call the police? Wow poor kid.
Re: (Score:3)
The government's changing guidance into law to ban mobile phones during the school day. They're not sewing the kids mouths shut, nor are they giving kids kung fu lessons. Kids are just as free to report violence as they ever were.
To be clear - this meat of this was already "guidance", and nearly all schools had some *something* in place already. This now makes it law that they *have* to do something, but that something can be as little as "keep your phone in your bag, on silent or switched off", although mo
Re: (Score:3)
Kids under say 16 shouldn't have "smart" phones.
Here in the US, you can get a learner's permit at 14 in a few states, and in the vast majority of states at 15 (with a few outliers at 16). I'm really not seeing how a freakin' car is somehow more age-appropriate than a smartphone. Anything you don't want your kid to access on a smartphone can be locked down with parental controls. Can't really say the same about sending 'em off into the real world with a vehicle.
Re:DUMB phones (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess that students in the US are asked to park their car in an appropriate parking place and are not allowed to use their car inside a classroom. That's what UK students are being asked about their phones.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd put the snark tag, but there's a portion of me that thinks they'd actually do it if they could get away with it.
Re: (Score:2)
This reads like it's being written with the full chest of someone who doesn't have kids. I quite like my kids to have a device that holds money, a map, a travelcard for the tube and buses, multiple methods to contact me and others, books, a camera, etc. I don't have a fucking conniption over fucking Insta, and there's more than enough pernicious behaviour that my kids get exposed to whether I want them to or not with or without social media
Burying the lede (Score:2)
The government had consistently argued that the vast majority of schools had already banned mobile phones
Assuming this is true, headline is a no-op. However,
The bill is regarded by many as the biggest piece of child protection legislation in decades and includes proposals for a compulsory register for children who are not in school, a crackdown on profiteering in children's social care, and a "single unique identifier" to help agencies track a child's welfare.
Re: (Score:3)
I think they did this years ago, as a means of proving the education (stream) a child received. This suggests, a second identifier will be a de facto SSN.
Re: (Score:2)
And its likely only of use during primary/secondary schooling, tertiary schooling will be different.
And this will be different to the health ID, different to their driver ID, different to their tax ID, different to their passport ID, etc etc etc etc
Re: (Score:2)
Different ... and all tied back to NIN (or the "it's not a NIN" number before they hand it out officially at 16, in the database it's all the same).
Re: (Score:2)
And if its already that way, what change has ben made ?
Re: (Score:2)
You call it paranoia, I call it common sense.
Even if every department does their own identity check based on historical paper chains, like they are supposed to in the UK, they still need something unique to cross reference when inevitably the need to cross reference arrives ... and look, the NIN is right there. So it becomes the universal identifier regardless of the revulsion anglo's feel for that.
As for issuance at birth, it's the same number used for child benefits and pension plans. I assume that's beca
Re: Burying the lede (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So lets say child protection made a casefile for an underage kid without child benefits? What did they use as their unique identifier before the NHS number?
Re: (Score:3)
Jesus Christ. We already have unique identifiers from birth in the UK in the form of NHS numbers, and a National Insurance (not SSN, because we don't actually live in the states) from 15.5
Re: (Score:2)
In the UK, people get a national insurance number at the age of 16 for tracking tax / pension contributions & social security payments. I assume the measure is intended to issue the number at birth for similar reasons.
Re: Burying the lede (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Ban Phones at Lunch and Between Classes (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
I think some schools do ban phones during what should be students' "free" time. That's great if your goal is to send a message that you can't trust them to be responsible with their device usage after laying down rules as to when it is and isn't appropriate to use their phones. Also, making something into contraband almost never backfires. /s
Re: (Score:2)
I dont see an issue with that, as UK schools also ban a lot of other things during "free time" (its not actually time without restriction), for example leaving the school grounds for most of the school body (when you get into sixth form, you gain more freedoms as you are deemed to be there voluntarily).
Re: (Score:2)
Oooh... they "banned" cell phones! Are they searching the kids on the way in, or do they just assume the kids simply won't break the rule and have their phone on silent in a pants pocket?
Easier to just wrap the building in copper mesh... if the parent(s) need(s) to get ahold of the kid, they can call the school.
I don't think my kid needs a thousand dollar iPhone... maybe a limited flip phone.
Back to slide rules and log tables (Score:2)
Are they banning calculators as well?
Re: (Score:2)
Anecdotal evidence (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
more personal interactions between students.
That a euphemism for swirlies in the public toilets?
Re: (Score:2)
Ontario did it too, and it was very well received by both teachers and students.
single unique identifier (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They get a national insurance number when registered as born already ... but in true British fashion, they will probably just make a new number (and then tie it back to NIN any way, the one number to rule them all).
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps the government has some store of all pre 15.5 year old's NINOs, but they don't issue NINOs to individuals till 15.5. But everyone gets an NHS number at birth
Re: single unique identifier (Score:2)
NI numbers are automatically allocated three months before a child's 16th birthday, but only when the parent's have claimed child benefit. Everybody else has to apply for an NI number, if they want to work. Theoretically, somebody could get by without an NI number, but Iâ(TM)m sure that's a niche reserved for people with silver spoons.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup
Re: single unique identifier (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As far as I'm aware, Child Reference Numbers (CRNs) follow a different format to NI numbers. Do you have experience otherwise or can point to somewhere online that explains this?
This doesn't say how things are implemented, but suggests that CRNs and NINos are different:
Re: (Score:2)
The NHS number is new, but they already got a NIN immediately when they got an early pension or child benefits regardless of age.
Of course before the NHS number kids also had database entries for whatever government creates cases for and they needed a unique identifier for those. In theory you could just use the parents NIN until a personal NIN is issued, but that's awkward and fragile. There's already an unique identifier they will issue eventually or immediately any way depending on circumstance ... maybe
Phone ban seems fine, but why a law? (Score:2)
Great not to have phones in school - so great that it seems most schools have already banned them some time ago. So I don't see the point of making a law; perhaps Department of Education regulation would have been more appropriate - this just looks like Parliament trying to make some sort of voter-pleasing statement by enacting a pointless law. I am curious (and too lazy to read the bill itself) what the penalty for non-compliance will be. Fine the teacher? Or the student? Send them to prison? And is t
Really not needed (Score:3)
I don't believe a significant number of schools are seeking a change in the law.
Right now, schools can set their own policy. Some introduce lockers, or lockable pouches. I've seen this implemented really badly where not having a phone in a pouch was a punishable offence, even if you forgot your phone, or deliberately left it at home. It's also expensive - you're looking at something upwards of £10k to setup something like this, and there's an ongoing cost in time as well as money needed to replace/maintain pouches/lockers over time.
More common is a rule of "not seen or heard", which is usually expressed as "your phone should be off in your bag during the school day". If you need to contact a parent, you go to the school office or similar. This rule seems to work well on the whole. You'll get some kids going to the toilets to use their phone, which definitely isn't ideal, but I don't think it's a widespread problem. Without lots of funding, I can't see anyone Faraday caging such rooms.
kid cellphone ban (Score:2)
I suppose the next thing they'll do (Score:3)
is bring back mortar boards, robes, and trips to the headmaster's office for a caning. After all it is all about control. As a one who grew up having British parents in the 60's in America, I used to see a lot of this depicted in the British Beano, and Dandy comic books my parents gave to us as kids.
The problem with control is it usually becomes a "Whack a mole problem. Even during the times the schools had corporal punishment, kids still got away with a lot. In fact, it was a game to see how much they could get away with.