NetHack 5.0 Released (nethack.org) 46
"So yesterday the Devteam (it is always the Devteam) released version 5.0 of legendary and venerable rogueike compuer game NetHack," writes the Rogue-like games column @Play. "It is 39 years old..."
MilenCent (Slashdot reader #219,397) writes: In addition to play changes it's left for players to discover, this version updates the code to compile with C99, makes it much easier to cross compile the code for other systems than the one running, and now uses Lua for its dungeon generation. Happy hacking!
For new players, "Nethack 5.0 now has an optional tutorial in the early phases of the game that might help you," notes the Rogue-like games column @Play: Three systems binaries are provided: Windows, MS-DOS and Amiga. Yes, Nethack still supports MS-DOS, and yes, it still supports classic Amiga: it explicitly supports AmigaDOS 3.0, meaning it can still run on 68000 machines... That these are the only systems they provide binaries for shouldn't be seen as an indication that these are the "most important" platforms for Nethack, it's more that, since it's entirely open source, building it yourself is entirely possible, and more expected than with most software. Nethack can be built for Linux, Windows 8-11, AmigaDOS, MacOS (I'm not sure if this includes classic Mac too but it might), Windows CE (wow), OS/2 (additional wow), BeOS, VMS and multiple Unixes... Another option is to play through public Nethack servers. The most popular of these are probably alt.org and Hardfought.
MilenCent (Slashdot reader #219,397) writes: In addition to play changes it's left for players to discover, this version updates the code to compile with C99, makes it much easier to cross compile the code for other systems than the one running, and now uses Lua for its dungeon generation. Happy hacking!
For new players, "Nethack 5.0 now has an optional tutorial in the early phases of the game that might help you," notes the Rogue-like games column @Play: Three systems binaries are provided: Windows, MS-DOS and Amiga. Yes, Nethack still supports MS-DOS, and yes, it still supports classic Amiga: it explicitly supports AmigaDOS 3.0, meaning it can still run on 68000 machines... That these are the only systems they provide binaries for shouldn't be seen as an indication that these are the "most important" platforms for Nethack, it's more that, since it's entirely open source, building it yourself is entirely possible, and more expected than with most software. Nethack can be built for Linux, Windows 8-11, AmigaDOS, MacOS (I'm not sure if this includes classic Mac too but it might), Windows CE (wow), OS/2 (additional wow), BeOS, VMS and multiple Unixes... Another option is to play through public Nethack servers. The most popular of these are probably alt.org and Hardfought.
I only just updated to 3.7.0-132 a while back (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I only just updated to 3.7.0-132 a while back (Score:5, Informative)
Some of those things that I've found:
* A tutorial is offered on starting a game
* There can be themed rooms now, including (seen with my own eyes) non-rectangular ones, icy rooms, nested rooms and statue gardens (where the statues can actually be monsters).
* Iron bars can now be normal dungeon dressing. Before, they had only been seen in very few instances in Quest levels.
* Monkeys in minetown can now try to steal items from you (those may have been in a previous version)
* player monster corpses can generate on traps
I've also heard that the mid-game Gehennom area (aka Hell) is much less monotonous now, with all kinds of special terrain. I'd say it's mostly an incremental release, no major game systems have been added, but I guess the game's pretty set in stone now. I do miss the days when Nethack 3.0 greatly reworked the game, and Nethack 3.1 its dungeon, but then there's lots of room for new classic-style roguelikes to fill in those blanks.
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In 3.6.7, they could also appear in front of the 1-tile closets [nethackwiki.com] on the north/south faces of random rooms (specifically, the ones that would normally be locked and contain a scroll of teleportation). 5.0.0 adds iron bars to certain Gehennom levels.
That's also been a thing for a rather long t
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Ah, I hadn't played 3.6.7 yet so those were new to me. Thanks for the info!
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Nethack now supports cross compilation, so it might be possible to build for BeOS from a different kind of machine. Or maybe they use Haiku?
Yo C so old.. (Score:2)
It might as well be called Dead C
that was updated (Score:1)
So the first "standard" for C was called K&R C, meaning that the language conformed to the first edition of the best book ever written, The C Programming Language, by Kernighan and Ritchie. Then came ANSI C (aka C89, aka C90 -- some very minor changes were made between the ANSI standardization in 1989 and the ISO standardization in 1990). The inventor of the C language participated in the standardization efforts and therefore this was the last true version of C. You could still compile K&R C with an
Version (Score:3)
I know version numbers are often arbitrary, but why did it jump from 3.6.7 to 5.0? Do they not like the number 4?
Re:Version (Score:5, Informative)
NetHack has many variants and forks, and one of them was named NetHack 4 [nethackwiki.com] (and was based on version 3.4.3) - naming this release 4.0.0 would've been rather confusing.
On top of that, there had been numerous development builds named "3.7.0", so releasing the final version with that same number would've also been confusing, so they went with 5.0.0 instead.
Re:Version (Score:4, Informative)
Thanks! That was very informative (and not something I could easily find).
I remember playing Rogue way back in the 80's on ASCII terminals :) Many hours. I think I moved on from that fad before NetHack appeared. It is cool that there is an X11 version for Athena and QT, too.
Now I am getting nostalgic.... I remember when we were on X Terminals, Xblast TNT came out. Great times blasting other players on the network. Wow- it is still in the Mint repos, and as a native package! https://community.linuxmint.co... [linuxmint.com]
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Dragons have tough skin and also count as Large creatures, so most classes will have difficulty. But Monks are made specifically to fight unarmed. There is a conduct for playing without ever having hit with a wielded weapon, and people have earned every conduct, so, I'd say yes. I don't know what you mean by "the" dragon though; Nethack has no shortage of the scaly beasties.
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It went to the same place that Winamp 4 went to.
Binaries provided for DOS, Windows, and Amiga (Score:4, Funny)
... other, more obscure platforms are also supported, but if you want to run NetHack on them, you'll have to compile it yourself from source. Kind of a baller move if you ask me :)
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in before... (Score:2)
In before someone goes into a rant about how nethack isn't a roguelike, but a roguelite, because it doesn't meet some batshit insane standard that rogue doesn't even meet.
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I once referred to FTL a roguelike. The horror which followed has left scars I will forever carry.
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I always find it weird that people will call any random game a roguelike and expect you to accept their pronouncement on faith but they'll fight over nethack.
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Well in this case Nethack is _definitely_ a roguelike, it's one of the classics. You can't get more roguelike than Nethack.
Re: in before... (Score:1)
well except perhaps for rogue itself.
modernized to C99, then unmodernized to using LUA (Score:2, Interesting)
> this version updates the code to compile with C99, makes it much easier to cross compile the code for other systems than the one running, and now uses Lua for its dungeon generation.
It never ceases to amaze me that developer spend the time to upgrade ancient code to the latest C version, yet add dependencies on sure to be broken add-ons like ancient niche scripting languages.
Is the question "How much of this was vibe-coded?"
Re:modernized to C99, then unmodernized to using L (Score:5, Informative)
(Disclaimer: submitter of the post, and also the person who's blog was linked to it, although that was added by the editor and not me.)
I would take the bet that *zero percent* of Nethack is vibe coded. The Devteam are not the kinds of people, I believe, to be easily swayed by (spits) _passing fancies_ like Claude. Lua (I've been told) can be compiled as straight C, so it doesn't introduce further dependencies. The previous special level building system of Nethack used yacc and lex, and was rather complex. I'm sad that these classic Unix tools are no longer part of the build process, but using Lua may make it easier to expand Nethack in the future.
Fun fact: Lua was part of Angband's code for a brief time.
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Lua is an excellent language.
While perhaps "niche", it is is in so many niches. One of the most successful music editing tools has its UI in LUA, the UI of world f warcraft is in in Lua.
I stumble over Lua all the time here and there.
Neovim, or nvim, has all its plugins and scripts in Lua ...
Re: modernized to C99, then unmodernized to using (Score:5, Informative)
Lua remains the commonest choice today for games to offer scripting/modding. It's pretty much the industry standard. (Outside C# for Unity).
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What a great way to announce to the world that you know absolutely nothing about the matter on which you are speaking.
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ancient niche scripting languages.
Lua is pretty widespread actually; if you want truly ancient: Tcl
To this day, in combination with Tk, the most compact and elegant way of bringing up a GUI in no time with basically zero effort.
The present is too verbose.
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It never ceases to amaze me that developer spend the time to upgrade ancient code to the latest C version
In what world is C99, from 1999, the latest version of C? Even C11 is pretty old now.
good lord (Score:2)
I'm still playing Hack 1.0.3. (On WSL.) Maybe it's finally time to try Nethack.
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I loved Hack 1.0.3. At some point between then and now NetHack got unreasonably difficult for me.
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I've heard that Nethack is absurdly complicated.
Re:good lord (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd say Hack is harder than Nethack. What matters is how much of the game you know. In Hack, if you have bad luck you are basically screwed; in Nethack, prayer can get you out of lots of trouble, you just have to know it's there to rely upon and not to use it too often.\
Nethack also has many ways you can use resources, even bad resources, to survive. Take bad or useless potions and dip them in water to dilute them into plain water, get them blessed to make them all into holy water, then use that to bless your other items to get much more use out of them. Wash scrolls to make them into scrolls of blank paper, then use a magic marker to write the scrolls you want on them. Combine these two tricks to make blessed scrolls of identify and find out what many, if not all, of your items are. Drop extra rings down sinks for clues as to what they are. Use wands to write on the ground for clues to their identities.
This is a different play philosophy from Hack, where in large part you take what the game gives you and do the best you can with it.
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Nethack has a lot of 'deep' stuff like tricks and combos for the player to discover. While you will still die arbitrarily to a random occurrence in the true roguelike fashion, knowing these tricks can greatly improve your chances of success and survival.
Sometimes those tricks can be downright unbalanced and exploits rather than features. Those of you who have wished for the PYEC, polypiled and wraith-farmed know what I'm talking about (of course those tricks have been toned down quite a bit since they were
Shattered Pixel Dungeon (Score:2)
A really good equivalent of NetHack for mobile:
https://shatteredpixel.com/ [shatteredpixel.com]
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One for Temux would be cool, oh wait, I guess it is right here ...
Confirming it runs under DOSBOX on Android phones. (Score:4, Informative)
There goes some of my productivity for the week.
On a VAX? (Score:1)
Well, folks had a good time playing Nethack 3.2 on my VAX as VCF PNW this weekend. Is it worth trying build and install the new version or keep the period correct version?
These are the important questions in life.
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I would say yes! 3.2 is from before when they split race and role. In 3.2 you could play as an Elf; in more recent versions, you can play as an Elf of many different roles. 3.2 is also before they introduced magic proficiencies, so you couldn't get better at classes of magic individually. And 5.0 greatly improves Gehennom, in many versions of Nethack it's the least interesting part of the game, an interminable slog through 20+ maze levels where most of the monsters don't post you much threat, until you fina
Come on (Score:5, Funny)
The MS-DOS download is 2.5MB, and NETHACK.EXE is over 3 MB uncompressed! How am I supposed to fit that on a floppy disk?!