Dell Rivals Apple's MacBook Neo With $699 Touchscreen XPS 13 Laptop (bloomberg.com) 116
Dell has introduced a redesigned $699 XPS 13 aimed squarely at Apple's budget MacBook Neo, offering a premium aluminum design, touch display, backlit keyboard, Wi-Fi 7, 512GB of base storage, and various other configuration options. Dell's machine costs more than Apple's entry model but tries to justify the difference with lighter weight, better display specs, and upgrade paths Apple doesn't offer. "The XPS 13 begins at $699 -- students can purchase it for $599 -- while the MacBook Neo costs $599 and drops to $499 for education buyers," notes Bloomberg. From the report: Dell's product allows for more configuration, with up to 32GB of memory compared with the Neo's nonupgradeable 8GB of unified memory. Its display can also produce a wider spectrum of colors and supports refresh rates up to 120 hertz, while Apple reserves its best screens for the pricier MacBook Pro line.
The inclusion of a backlit keyboard should allow for easier typing in dark conditions. Dell has also tossed in other nice-to-have upgrades over the Neo like more robust Wi-Fi 7 wireless networking. As for battery life, Dell is touting "up to 17 hours of streaming" versus a comparable 16 hours on the Neo.
Still, the XPS comes with compromises of its own: Unlike the Neo, there's no built-in headphone jack, which means owners will need to rely on its quad-speaker audio system, use Bluetooth earbuds or plug a headphone adapter into one of the two USB-C ports. You can learn more via Dell.com.
The inclusion of a backlit keyboard should allow for easier typing in dark conditions. Dell has also tossed in other nice-to-have upgrades over the Neo like more robust Wi-Fi 7 wireless networking. As for battery life, Dell is touting "up to 17 hours of streaming" versus a comparable 16 hours on the Neo.
Still, the XPS comes with compromises of its own: Unlike the Neo, there's no built-in headphone jack, which means owners will need to rely on its quad-speaker audio system, use Bluetooth earbuds or plug a headphone adapter into one of the two USB-C ports. You can learn more via Dell.com.
The big question is build quality and feel (Score:5, Interesting)
Can Dell produce somethinbg that doesn’t *feel* cheap, though? Low cost laptops aren’t new news. But low cost laptops that don’t feel like flimsy crappy plasticky things are, hence why the Neo drew attention. Will be interesting to see if Dell tackled this or not.
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The Neo, inexpensive as it is, still feels professional. You can tell it is a budget model when comparing it with a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro, but it definitely has a solid fit and finish, arguably on par with most PC laptops.
What I'd consider doing is maybe looking at budget models as loss leaders, and getting some upsell models. For example, I'd say a next step up would be an i5, 16 gigs of RAM, a TB SSD, with a fingerprint scanner. This way, as mentioned by another, there is some profit to be made fr
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Re:The big question is build quality and feel (Score:4, Interesting)
Very true. I still have one, and still using it for a WAP which works perfectly for older devices that don't like newer APs.
I just wish Apple made them again because they do what they do extremely well.
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Look around. I think i've seen stuff that does Time Machine out there. I don't know how much longer apple supports network Time Machine servers... they are dropping Intel emulation soon so all your old apps die. Unless you have a windows version of the app and an emulator. No, you don't need to upgrade old software, not everything needs internet or exchanges complex data files with the outside world.
Re:The big question is build quality and feel (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The big question is build quality and feel (Score:4, Informative)
Have you ever handled a Dell XPS laptop? They don't "feel cheap." They're the state-of-the-art in what we used to call "Ultrabooks."
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It's not about whether I think they feel cheap. It's about whether sufficient numbers of consumers do, particularly head to head vs the Neo.
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Have you ever handled a Dell XPS laptop? They don't "feel cheap." They're the state-of-the-art in what we used to call "Ultrabooks."
So they feel Ultracheap?
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So they feel Ultracheap?
Said by someone who's never handled an Ultrabook.
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I admit I was never dumb enough to buy one.
Re:who cares how it feels? (Score:4, Informative)
I work in IT at a hospital. Dell Latitude 3420 and 3430 laptops have to be held carefully to avoid having the plastic crack simply because of the weight of the laptop. We have had to replace multiple top and bottom panels because of this. If you pick it up while its open, with two hands towards the front of the laptop, and then so much as move it a little in the air, the plastic shell noticeably flexes. We have been trying to train users to close the laptop before moving it, and to always hold it more towards the middle to avoid this.
Yes, I know the user is ultimately at fault here, but this can be an expensive issue for organizations with lots of laptops and lots of users, so it is often worth it to look for better build quality. Fortunately, the newer models have been a bit better in this regard, but it's always an up and down cycle with how they constantly try to see just how much cheapening they can get away with.
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I posted yesterday about how bad my Dell G5 is made, it's shocking. The motherboard seems to be providing structural support; it's the stiffest thing in the computer and all the bendy plastic secures into it.
I'm guessing "aluminum design" here means they flattened some soda cans and glued them on the plastic panels for aesthetics.
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I had a plastic Dell (Inspiron something several years ago) and we kept it for something like 7 years before replacing it by a newer laptop. Never cracked. Sounds like your problem is more that your users don't take care of the laptops because they are not theirs. In my field we often use rugged laptops to use in shops, maybe that's what you need as well.
What people call "build quality" is more often about looks and feel than actual strength anyways. Glass back on phones is a good example of this. A plastic
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Do you find that telling people they are wrong for valuing something that you don't value wins you (a) new friends or (b) new business?
People care about things feeling good in their hands, about things looking good. Always have, always will. You may pride yourself on your oh-so-rational focus on performance, but I will lay money that exactly like every other human on the planet, you make purchase decisions via a mix of rational, post-hoc rationalising, emotional and other factors, not all of which match wit
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Oh, no problem with people who want their computer to look good. Just don't call it "build quality" as if it had anything to do with the quality of the product or it's ability to last. Call it "look and feel". And admit that sometimes inferior products from a durability perspective can look or feel better. Glass back on phones is a perfect example of this. Plastic would be superior from a technical perspective, but "look and feel" people and reviewers forced us to have a weaker material because it looks and
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But in this case, we're talking about metal vs plastic, not glass vs plastic. We're also talking about large touchpads (more usable) with a good haptic sensor (more usable) and a high quality screen that's bright and crisp (more usable) and a high quality keyboard that doesn't flex when you type on it (more usable).
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Oh I never denied that there are laptops with better touchpads/keyboards/displays than others. But you didn't mention any of those points in your original post, just "feel" and "plasticky".
Glass was just an example that a material can look/feel premium while be technically inferior. Up to a point we could say the same about metal. It's heavier than plastic so plastic laptops can be better even if they "feel" cheaper. My Thinkpad T is in plastic and I don't see anything wrong with that.
Leaving out the RAM size = Slashvert (Score:3)
Omitting the RAM size in this sentence tells use that this is a Slashvert and not a proper story.
Re:Leaving out the RAM size = Slashvert (Score:4, Interesting)
Base model 8GB if you're curious.
Re:Leaving out the RAM size = Slashvert (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, Windows will love that.
Re:Leaving out the RAM size = Slashvert (Score:4)
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Windows can handle 8 GB. Then another 8 GB. Then another. In fact, it will eat as many gigabytes as you can provide it.
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I'm sure that the $699 model will come with terrible hardware specs like 8 or 12 GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD.
Expecting more than that during the 2026 AI Rampocolypse is foolish, because RAM and storage cost at least twice as much as they should right now.
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8GB, yes. But at least a 512 SSD. Personally, for an entry system, I'd take the smaller 256SSD to get a bit more RAM... but RAM prices are insane now.
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Dang They dont get it do they (Score:1)
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No headphone port??
Headphone ports are complete wastes of space. 3.5mm headphones are almost universally garbage, and even if you have really nice high-end 3.5mm headphones their quality doesn't matter if the device's DAC sucks - like the Neo's or any other budget device with a 3.5mm port. Anyone still buying or using 3.5mm headphones is cringe.
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Yeah, I really don't understand people that want the cheapest DAC in the universe hooked up to a 3.5mm port when USB-C is right there and allows you to plug in your own DAC that may very well be superior in every way, powered off the USB-C.
It's really not that hard.
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Or you just buy cheap $20 wired usb-c headphones. No adapter needed. Forward compatible.
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Stop letting people sell you snakeoil.
Re:Dang They dont get it do they (Score:4, Informative)
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And so are cheap $20 usb-c wired headphones. No adapter needed.
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The 3.5mm jack has been around forever.
Yeah, and has been getting phased out for years. Less and less of them are used every year. Upgrade your shitty old 3.5mm, get an adapter, or shut the fuck up.
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Upgrade your shitty old 3.5mm, get an adapter, or shut the fuck up.
I'll just tell all the consumer electronic equipment manufacturers they need to come to my house and change out their ports on the equipment I already own. Also when I am on a plane the next time, they should phased out audio jacks long ago. I have that kind of power. . . . no I don't. Do you have that kind of power as you are the one who is demanding I change out my equipment? And everyone else's equipment because you want to use $20 headphones.
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No, I use nice headphones that are compatible with every modern audio producing device because they aren't reliant solely on a piece of shit 3.5mm that shouldn't bother existing anymore in most devices. I can connect them to my PC, any console, my phone, and anything else - both wired or wireless depending on the device.
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No, I use nice headphones that are compatible with every modern audio producing device because they aren't reliant solely on a piece of shit 3.5mm that shouldn't bother existing anymore in most devices.
YOU use something does not mean everyone else has your wants, needs, resources, etc. Some uses for that shitty 3.5mm jack exist because upgrading that existing equipment is expensive. For example, airplanes. For people like me, I have lots of equipment have those jacks. Some have alternate means of outputting sound but USB headphones don't work on legacy equipment without an adapter or other equipment. And there are people who simply don't care about the best sound or DAC.
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Some have alternate means of outputting sound but USB headphones don't work on legacy equipment without an adapter or other equipment.
Cool. Good thing we aren't talking about your shitty legacy equipment. We're talking about equipment coming out now and in the future. If you aren't buying anything new, then you don't need to worry for a while. But if you don't already have a 3.5mm to usb-c adapter or usb-c/wireless headphones, then you need to get with the program. Because that's the standard we're at.
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For "people who don't care the DAC sucks", there's wireless. For people who do care about the DAC but only for listening to music or conversation etc., then wireless also exists. For those who care about both quality and latency, and that's really
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and would absolutely not let wireless headphones anywhere near it.
First of all, you don't HAVE to go wireless. There are wired usb-c headphones.
for audio and music production
Secondly, if you do any kind of audio production and want analog connections, you want 1/4" or XLR, not 3.5mm.
I'm a heavy user of Logic
Which is for amateurs.
For those who care about both quality and latency
You're confusing digital vs analog rather than wireless vs wired. Analog (3.5mm, 1/4") have better latency because they do not have to get translated by a DAC. Digital audio has better, and higher, quality. You can do wired or wireless with both digital and analog signals. Wireless will always add som
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I'm a heavy user of Logic
Which is for amateurs.
That's simply not true. It may not be the DAW with the biggest market share, but there are a ton of working professionals (including some rather famous ones) who like the workflow of Logic and use it as their primary DAW.
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I didn't miss anything. Harvey's only problem was my take on the software.
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Nothing prevents a professional from using tools for amateurs. Doesn't mean anything.
I'm honestly curious to know what this perception of yours is based on. Do you work in audio production or a related field? Why do you feel that Logic is "a tool for amateurs", despite the fact that professionals use it?
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Apple does not make anything that is actually designed, and meant, for professionals - hardware or software. Logic Pro is literally designed to be a beginner-friendly tool. Sure, it may be good enough for the professionals that still use it, but just because a handful of them use it does not mean that it's meant for them or the best software for the job.
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I don't get why your post got modded down so heavily. I've got a $23 pair of moondrop's with 3.5mm, and they sound better than any bluetooth headphones I've seen with just about anything I plug them into.
... even if you have really nice high-end 3.5mm headphones their quality doesn't matter if the device's DAC sucks
OK... does this XPS have a bad DAC or a good one? If GP doesn't know, why all the whining?
Worse still, how bad is the DAC in similarly priced USB-C headphones? Cause that's the comparison we need then. Show me a $23 pair of USB-C headphones that sound as good as the aforementioned ones and have a quality DA
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It doesn't have a DAC because it doesn't have a 3.5mm jack.
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I transposed XPS and Neo in one spot. Bold below corrects that and adds your quote to which I was replying:
... even if you have really nice high-end 3.5mm headphones their quality doesn't matter if the device's DAC sucks - like the Neo's or any other budget device with a 3.5mm port.
OK... does the Neo have a bad DAC or a good one? If GP doesn't know, why all the whining?
(the XPS) doesn't have a DAC because it doesn't have a 3.5mm jack.
The Neo is what I was referring to. It's what you referred to when bashing devices with 3.5mm ports.
Why would a 3.5mm port bother you at all? (See my post above for lots of reasons why it shouldn't)
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Oh, I think I answered that somewhere else. The Neo's DAC is low quality, so...bad.
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And the DAC takes up a lot space (more than most people think) that could be better utilized by other components. If you got a big machine with extra internal space, than fuck it, throw it in. Phones, tablets, and other "handheld" devices are better off without wasting the space on 3.5mm and DAC when there are better options.
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And the DAC takes up a lot space (more than most people think) that could be better utilized by other components. If you got a big machine with extra internal space, than fuck it, throw it in. Phones, tablets, and other "handheld" devices are better off without wasting the space on 3.5mm and DAC when there are better options.
I question your idea of "a lot of space". Do you think 2mm x 2mm is a lot? Or maybe you feel those are not big but they're low quality?
If it's the latter (small ones aren't enough for you), then why does the 3.5mm port bother you at all when there is also USB-C available? You're free to use whatever external USB-C thing with a DAC you want, just as you would have to use if it lacked the 3.5mm port, and the rest of us just making calls and such on our phones can use the 3.5mm port and it's more than sufficie
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Do you think 2mm x 2mm is a lot?
If those were accurate measurements, no. But seeing as the port is 3D and not 2D, you aren't even in the same ballpark.
You're free to use whatever external USB-C thing with a DAC you want, just as you would have to use if it lacked the 3.5mm port, and the rest of us just making calls and such on our phones can use the 3.5mm port and it's more than sufficient for that use.
I would rather manufacturers not waste the space on 3.5mm in which it's sole use is audio output when there are better and more efficient ways to do the same thing and more. That little bit of space can go to something more important like increasing the size of the battery.
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Do you think 2mm x 2mm is a lot?
If those were accurate measurements, no. But seeing as the port is 3D and not 2D, you aren't even in the same ballpark.
Gee, why did you choose to remove the phase you wrote that I replied to? This:
And the DAC takes up a lot space (more than most people think) that could be better utilized by other components.
For the DAC, we're talking 2x2x1mm up to 5x5x1mm... or 4mm2 to 25mm2. And that's only if it's a specialized one, like the CS43131. Most phones use the DAC that is integrated into the Qualcomm Snapdragon SoC, so it's zero extra space.
That little bit of space can go to something more important like increasing the size of the battery.
Let's look at a typical phone size - iPhone 17 is 149.6 x 71.5 x 7.95mm.
If we add just 1/2mm in thickness, and we're very conservative about the length and width: 120 x 60 x 0.5 = 3600mm2
So, if you wan
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Gee, why did you choose to remove the phase you wrote that I replied to?
Generally, because your wrong.
Most phones use the DAC that is integrated into the Qualcomm Snapdragon SoC
Nope. Qualcomm Snapdragons are only in about 25% of all phones.
Your math is bad.
Why do you hate allowing others the option of using bog standard wired headphones?
I want old garbage tech that cannot be effectively be shrunk any further to die. USB-C provides better audio quality in a smaller space.
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Because Bluetooth isn't even CD quality audio, is why.
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Good luck trying to get both devices to agree to use AptX instead of falling back to SBC.
Believe me, I've tried.
Re: Dang They dont get it do they (Score:2)
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Because my head phones have a 3.5 plug.
Stupid comment.
Brought to you by the letter K (Score:2)
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Their laptops have always been divided into high-end / low-end since the return of Jobs. Remember the eMate? the iBook? The MacBook (non-air, non-pro)?
This is nothing new. Product segmentation is how you capture more market.
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Dell is just as likely to discontinue their entire laptops tomorrow to sell more "AI servers" since that was about 90% of revenue last quarter.
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The NEO _IS_ built out of iPhone parts,
Unlikely. From where would they get the parts?
Everything from Apple is build on ARM SoC's.
The NEO most certainly has an Intel or similar processor.
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The Neo is the Apple laptop here.
Dells offering is branded XPS. It sounds like you conflated the two.
So the Neo definitely has access to Apple parts - and its been confirmed to use the same SoC that was previously just used by the iPhone line of products.
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Oh, you are right.
For some reason I thought the NEO is the Dell product.
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What? Where did you get that from? The Neo uses the Apple A18 Pro SoC. It was widely reported (here on Slashdot even) that Apple was using binned iPhone chips for the first batches of Neos, with the defective cores deactivated.
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Sorry, I thought the NEO is the Dell product.
Doesn't seem newsworthy... (Score:4, Informative)
I mean I just bought a Lenovo laptop with 16G of ram for $700 with touchscreen, a pen, and OLED screen...
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Re: Doesn't seem newsworthy... (Score:2)
I guess so, looks like it is up to 950 now though, so guess it was a sale...
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This weekend it was probably a Memorial Day sale, but computers in general are all getting bumped up by a few hundred dollars once pre-RAM-crisis stocks deplete.
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I mean I just bought a Lenovo laptop with 16G of ram for $700 with touchscreen, a pen, and OLED screen...
Lenovo sells chromebooks for more than that, what is that, a refurbished android tablet?
Re: Doesn't seem newsworthy... (Score:2)
It was a yoga 7, but maybe it was a special deal for memorial Day. it is now 950...
Dell needs to match the Huawei MateBook Fold (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts... [youtube.com]
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Real original, Dell! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Real original, Dell! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's more likely your Bluetooth sniffer has an error in its MAC address database.
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OK, then.
RAM and CPU speed is going to be a problem (Score:2)
So macOS runs pretty happily on 8GB of RAM still, but Windows kind of doesn't anymore, and that's before you take into consideration that Apple's ARM CPUs are just really ridiculously fast for the price (and on the high end kind of just ridiculously fast period), so I'm not sure this is going to make a big dent. The Neo is kind of a genius move by Apple, as has been shown by them repeatedly selling out.
compromises (Score:2)
>"Still, the XPS comes with compromises of its own"
Yeah, it runs MS-Windows 11.
It's still a ranch (Score:3)
Reminds me of that real estate website commercial where the realtor keeps showing the couple one ranch-style house after another. It's still a PC running Windows. The same applies to NVidia's new machine. It's still Windows.
The headphone jack is the least of it (Score:2)
Apple's got many faults, but their hardware has a very premium feel. I presume this is where Dell's additional hundred bucks went, because Apple's used to doing that and Dell isn't. They think they are, but they aren't normally as good at it. But they're going to deliver this PC with Windows, and there might be Linux issues — there's no way to know until it's in reviewers' hands exactly what hardware is actually used around the parts we know about. And unless you specifically need Windows, it's very h
8GB Garbage (Score:2)
Rivals is a strong word to use (Score:2)
When the $100 base price difference ($200 on education) alone is going to change who can afford it at that market segment.
No competition (Score:2)
There is no competition here. Neo runs on macOS, while XPS runs on Windows. That's such a big drawback, that nothing can help Dell here. It's a lost chase for XPS.
Lol to the person that downvoted you (Score:2)
Guess they like Windows 11.
YES! 8GB on windows 11? (Score:2)
That is really going to perform badly, especially if you ever update your computer. Will MS actually improve for a change due to the RAM crisis going on??? Maybe Edge will improve on RAM use over google trying to replace the OS with Chrome?
I have an M1 with only 8GB of RAM and it works surprisingly well within that limitation. I don't do serious work with it but my casual use is beyond a typical office worker; plus I have two accounts that are often active each with a browser open. I might wear out the SS
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Dell can't match Apple because Win 11 wants 16 GB RAM to boot to desktop and 32 to be useable.
Windows 11 absolutely does not require 16GB to boot to desktop. And on my work machine, even with a large number of windows running, it rarely uses as much as 16GB, let alone 32GB. It's OK if you're not a fan of Microsoft, but don't post blatant exaggerations as though they are facts.
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Yeah, why lie like that? I can boot into Windows 11 with 6 GB of RAM with literally no problem on my virtual machines, and they work just fine.
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