Microsoft Accidentally Breaks Replying To an Email On Outlook (theregister.com) 70
Microsoft has accidentally introduced a bug in Outlook for Mac that omits the original message from email replies, making it difficult for recipients to follow conversation history. Until Microsoft releases a fix, its suggested workaround is to roll back from version 16.110 and disable automatic updates, which is "great for users in full control of their devices -- not so good for anyone with a managed device," notes The Register. "Administrators with fleets of Macs running Outlook should brace for helpdesk tickets." From the report: In some instances, having a user copy and paste the salient bits of the email they are responding to might not be such a bad thing. We've all had emails that required epic amounts of scrolling to find what started the conversation, so forcing users to think about what they actually need to include is no bad thing. However, disrupting user workflows without warning -- well, that is undoubtedly a bad thing.
This is, after all, one of the most basic things an email client needs to do, so shipping a product with a bug that breaks this functionality says more about Microsoft's approach to quality than anything else.
This is, after all, one of the most basic things an email client needs to do, so shipping a product with a bug that breaks this functionality says more about Microsoft's approach to quality than anything else.
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Re: "Administrators with fleets of Macs" (Score:2)
Re:"Administrators with fleets of Macs" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Hahahahah tell us you're old and out of touch without telling us you're old and out of touch.
[I mean aside from the fact we're having this discussion on Slashdot.]
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5-digit slashdot id or shorter is old man territory! /s
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I can confirm. Age 67
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Hey, I resemble that remark.
Re:"Administrators with fleets of Macs" (Score:4, Informative)
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Don’t know the current numbers but IBM was one of the biggest users of Macs. https://www.cio.com/article/23... [cio.com]
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Our IT team has been switching to Macs over the past 18 months or so. Started with the network guys, then sys admins and support desk people. Dev Ops and developers are supposed to be getting them when our machines are next refreshed.
For reference, we're heavily invested in .Net, Azure, MSSQL, etc.
Probably an enhancement by an AI agent (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Nah, they're just jealous that other people's fuckups have been dominating the news, and they want some of that old-fashioned media love too.
Re:Probably [lost marbles] by an AI agent (Score:2)
That was almost exactly my reaction to the story, but I think you should have gone for funny with it. I'm also not sure you should have called it an "agent", however. So I have supporting anecdotes to share from my AI-supported "programming" experiences...
My early experiments were mostly with ChatGPT and DeepSeek. My website was getting sick and the PERL/CGI was no longer allowed to run, so one of the many upgrade paths I explored involved moving functions, mostly statistical stuff, from PERL to JavaScript.
More importantly (Score:5, Insightful)
Slim pickins (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: More importantly (Score:2)
Good thing hardly anyone bar a few paranoids has used PGP in email for a few decades. Even criminals use app based protected messaging services now.
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Is that still a thing people do? I've not seen a PGP signature in an email in decades.
Good that the headlines says accidentally (Score:4, Insightful)
Raises hand (Score:1)
omits the original message from email replies ... suggested workaround is to roll back ... [or] copy and paste the salient bits of the email they are responding to
How about forwarding the message back to the sender(s), does the original still get included?
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No, forwarding doesn't work either. For both reply and forward, all you get is the dividing line and the header info of the original message (sender, recipient, date, etc).
Switching to new Outlook works, but then that comes with the bunch of other issues that makes me stick with legacy Outlook. That said, the previous update to this broken one also seems to have resulted in a bunch of missing emails, even after rebuilding my profile in a different folder and verifying that I can see them in new Outlook an
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"I think Microsoft just aren't testing legacy Outlook properly anymore ..."
CI/CD for the win.
Re: Raises hand (Score:1)
But I doubt it. (Score:5, Insightful)
A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: The lost context.
Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?
A: Yes.
Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?
Re:But I doubt it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why should I skip past boilerplate and old information to get to the important part?
Re:But I doubt it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps they were trying to get rid of their god-damned forced top-posting.
Think of it as a reply with the previous conversation as an "FYI" attachment if you need to review context.
In practice it works well, imo.
In most simple cases you already know the context so don't need it. And if you do you can look down.
And if you get forwarded an email or added to a convo mid thread, it's good to be able to first see the latest message to get some idea why you got the thing or what the request is, and then you can dive into the bg below. And yes in many of these cases i will scroll all the way down and read "up" which is not ideal but it's fine since it's relatively rare compared to the other usecase.
Re:But I doubt it. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:But I doubt it. (Score:5, Funny)
T > Perhaps they were trying to get rid of their god-damned forced top-posting.
h >
i > A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
s > Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?
>
i > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
s > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>
w > A: The lost context.
h > Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?
y >
> A: Yes.
I > Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?
> --
s > "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
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A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?
Because you've already read it. You might have even been the one to write it. New information goes at the very top. Reverse chronological makes perfect sense if you need to trace backward at a point of confusion because the most recent is the most relevant.
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You must have a very interesting diary/journal. And it's really odd that syslog puts new stuff at the end - you should complain to the developers.
Re: But I doubt it. (Score:2)
Those aren't communications. Communications protocols assume you have read up until the latest message.
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You could consider it a bug - when have you ever NOT auto-scrolled down to the end of syslog in order to figure out what just went wrong? If they wrote in reverse chrono order, you could just open the file and BAM! you'd see the relevant bits right in front of you.
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Perhaps they could take a clue from software from 40+ years ago and make top-posting a configurable option.
But Microsoft has pretty much completely given up on making their software configurable for user preferences.
Pretty weird use case! (Score:5, Funny)
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Seems they cannot even get basic things done reliably now.
Or (Score:5, Informative)
workaround is to roll back from version 16.110
or just install Thunderbird.
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On a Mac? Apple Mail works great even with 365 email. Thunderbird is not bad and definitely functional, but it is still not a polished UI after all this time.
Many Mac users can use web-mail (Score:1)
and for those that can't, Microsoft will be glad to $ell it to you.
For Mac users using Outlook to connect to non-Microsoft mail servers, Redmond ha$ a deal for you too.
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Why, just why, would any mac users use Outlook? They could just configure their Outlook mail address to Apple's mail app, be it in macOS, iPadOS or iOS
If they're that enamored w/ Outlook, why not just go all the way and get a Wintel laptop?
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Fleet managed? Company has an old Exchange Server? They use windows at a different workplace?
However, you are right. A sane person would use Apples Mail client.
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Generally, if a company has decided to go w/ Exchange, then they would likely have gone for Wintel laptops in their fleet. Why go the Mac route, when those are more expensive?
Macs make sense in a workplace where Apple had been the default platform. But if they went w/ that, they'd have picked a different email server platform than Exchange
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Why go the Mac route, when those are more expensive?
a) Because they are not more expensive.
b) because they offer their high quality workers a choice: Windows, Linux, Mac
c) because they run software, only available on Macs
But if they went w/ that, they'd have picked a different email server platform than Exchange
Because the previous moronic Sys Admin, picked exchange? He picked it because all in the office use Windows? Only the developers / artists use Macs?
Now the new Sys Admin is shaking head every day, bu
Which Outlook? (Score:2)
New Outlook
Classic/Legacy Outlook
Web Outlook, but basically New Outlook
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Outlook, along w/ Windows, is a poster child to demonstrate "Enshittification" of software. Classic/Legacy Outlook was fine, and so was Outlook Express back in the day. Microsoft obviously doesn't believe in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", so like so much of other software of theirs, they kept updating it so that one has to re-familiarize oneself w/ the software, and keep disrupting their workflows
This week, since my old Android tablet croaked, I migrated the accounts on it to a Chromebook of mine, a
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"Enshittification" of software
That implies that the software was actually good to begin with. Outlook never had that characteristic, unless your criteria for "good" includes good for passing viruses.
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ok, full Office Outlook certainly had/has a ton warts but lets get real about it being 'good'.
Rewind to 1997. There were some other really capable mail clients out there that really could manage very large 10k+ message mailboxes offline (key word for the time), the space got pretty rarefied as you started looking at elegant support for things like shared mailboxes or 'public folders' and of course mail integrated calendaring..
Of the few options that remained suitable for large corporate mail deployments Ex
in-line reply (Score:2)
>"making it difficult for recipients to follow conversation history."
>"so forcing users to think about what they actually need to include is no bad thing."
Yeah, we kinda used to have such a thing. It was called "trim and inline reply" (bottom reply). Kinda like I JUST DID IN THIS POSTING. But, alas, that was not the Microsoft-way. So it turned into full bottom quotes just being added forever with top replies to 10 questions with no context.
Magic 8-ball says (Score:5, Funny)
Magic 8-ball says: Outlook not so good.
Microsoft's decline continues... (Score:3)
A dumpster fire of an update, eh?
Not the first in recent times. Last year my outlook client suddenly trashed all replies on the latest forced update in work. Went away three weeks later, quietly.
My laptop still sits with a broken network on Windows 11, unfixable when I took the update three months later (don't use it much). No suggestions fixed it. It's to linux for me on that machine.
I'd like to blame cost cutting or incompetence, but I'd say it's very likely Fake Intelligence evangelism on their part (others call it AI, that infers Intelligence, I don't).
Ah, good old Microslop (Score:1)
Geez, who uses Outlook on a Mac ? We have Mail ! (Score:2)
That's minor compared to iPhone outlook (Score:2)
Namely, Outlook for iPhone always defaults to reply all for emails with multiple recipients. It doesn't matter how long the list is, it will reply all unless you go out of your way to reply only to the sender. This has catastrophic consequences at large companies.
It is not uncommon
As long as I can retro (Score:2)
As long as I can get the vintage You've got mail! soundbite, I'll be fine.
Same problem with tech helpdesk systems now (Score:1)
I'm constantly prefacing this boilerplate lately "It looks like your system lost the thread of the email that I sent, so I’m restoring that below for conversational continuity."
As useless as Teams (Score:3)
M$ office as a whole struggles with the most basic functionality. Now they broke replying to an Email, for months the camera in teams only works occasionally⦠seriously, who is giving M$ all that money? This is way worse than nobody-got-fired-for-buying-IBM.
Outlook vs Mail (Score:1)
feature (Score:1)
The Arctic Circle of Microsoft Development (Score:2)
How to tell (Score:2)
...that this was done by devops without saying it.
NO regression tests were run on this update.
New Outlook BLOWS (Score:2)
Microsoft is their own worst enemy (Score:2)
Windows updates cause almost as many issues as the problems they're trying to fix in the first place.
Linux / MacOs / SteamOS don't really have to try all that hard to increase their userbase.
They only need to suck a bit less than what Microsoft is peddling as an OS these days.
The users will migrate to the other systems on their own.
Took you long enough (Score:2)
"...shipping a product with a bug that breaks this functionality says more about Microsoft's approach to quality than anything else"
been like this for more than 40 years
Who cares? (Score:2)
AGAIN?? (Score:1)