Mushroom Behind 'Tiny Human' Visions Lacks Genes For Known Psychedelics (sciencealert.com) 86
alternative_right shares a report from ScienceAlert: If you consumed a wild mushroom and suddenly started seeing tiny people around you, you might reasonably assume it contained a familiar psychedelic. But that does not appear to be the case with Lanmaoa asiatica, known locally as jian shou qing, a mushroom species sold in markets in Yunnan, southwestern China. When eaten undercooked, the mushroom can produce vivid visions of miniature people -- not unlike Gulliver on his travels to Lilliput. To try and find out the root cause, University of Utah mycologists Colin Domnauer and Bryn Dentinger sequenced the genomes of 53 mushroom samples from across the wider Lanmaoa genus. And despite the reported hallucinations, they found no close matches to genes associated with psilocybin or ibotenic acid, two well-known mushroom hallucinogens whose biosynthetic pathways were specifically examined in the study.
"Biosynthetic gene mining of the L. asiatica genome found no close hits with any genes known in the production of mushroom psychoactive compounds," write the researchers in their published paper. "This supports our hypothesis of the presence of a novel unidentified metabolite responsible for the unique hallucinogenic properties of L. asiatica." [...] Whatever chemical pathways are causing these effects in the brain, the responsible compound appears to be something scientists have not yet identified. [...] By identifying 1,515 corresponding genes across the selected specimens, the researchers obtained a clearer answer to the question of what defines a mushroom species as part of the genus Lanmaoa. There are now 17 recognized species in the genus, including four that haven't been identified before, two of which the researchers specifically named here: Lanmaoa fallax and Lanmaoa carbonilivor. The researchers say the Lanmaoa family and evolutionary tree can now be more fully mapped out, and some existing specimens may need to be reclassified.
"Biosynthetic gene mining of the L. asiatica genome found no close hits with any genes known in the production of mushroom psychoactive compounds," write the researchers in their published paper. "This supports our hypothesis of the presence of a novel unidentified metabolite responsible for the unique hallucinogenic properties of L. asiatica." [...] Whatever chemical pathways are causing these effects in the brain, the responsible compound appears to be something scientists have not yet identified. [...] By identifying 1,515 corresponding genes across the selected specimens, the researchers obtained a clearer answer to the question of what defines a mushroom species as part of the genus Lanmaoa. There are now 17 recognized species in the genus, including four that haven't been identified before, two of which the researchers specifically named here: Lanmaoa fallax and Lanmaoa carbonilivor. The researchers say the Lanmaoa family and evolutionary tree can now be more fully mapped out, and some existing specimens may need to be reclassified.
What if it filters certain visible frequencies (Score:5, Funny)
revealing that the tiny people are actually there?
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Why would it have to be trauma?
Much of our reality is shaped by filtering out extraneous information.
Spend time in a room with a ticking clock and your body will start to tune it out.
It would make sense for our senses to filter out creatures that poses no threat
to us so we can focus on actual threats to our survival.
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequencies (Score:2)
Yes, you trolls certainly are small people.
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"...short people got...no reason to live...."
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Or Barbra Streisand's 1969 acceptance speech.
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Maybe they are normal people but they are really far away?
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequencies (Score:2)
I'm crushing your head!
Re: I'm crushing your head! (Score:2)
I am SO lucky I swallowed my soda before I read your post.
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequencies (Score:2)
That's actually an interesting possibility I've been considering. Hear me out for a sec:
I've had the experience, once, while riding in a car, looking at a single parked car by the roadside, of having the impression that it was a miniature.
Intellectually, I knew with certainty that it was a regular-sized parked car. I wasn't ill, nor drunk, nor drugging, no novel Rx meds.
But I couldn't shake the feeling that the car was tiny. It was a little distance away, so it was some seconds before we passed.
I've guessed
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I suggest an experiment where half the passengers take those mushrooms before going on the "It's a small world afterall" ride.
It could be a 'mini series...
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequencie (Score:2)
My folks took me on that friggin' ride when it was at the 1964 World's Fair in NYC. In my recollection, it lasted about 6-1/2 hours.
If I'm gonna have to go again, I'd prefer a death cap mushroom instead.
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequencie (Score:1)
As a young person, sometimes while I was lying in bed ready to fall asleep, I would have my eyes open and the proportions of the room would change, making it feel like I was in a room 10x the size of my room. Obviously in the dim light I was missing a lot of the cues to determine distance and scale, but it was a real sensation. I was aware that it was happening, so I didn't believe I was in a giant room, but it really felt real at the same time. I kind of reveled in it, because it was kind of a break fro
Re: What if it filters certain visible frequenci (Score:2)
I recall stories people have told about being "out of body" or awake during an emergency procedure, and finding themselves in a corner near the ceiling, looking down at themselves.
Again, maybe the same brain system is implicated.
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Actually, they are just tiny flat Egyptians.
We've all seen the murals, there's always a Pharaoh surrounded by tiny little people doing menial work. Turns out it's not Artistic Perspective at all.
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I only saw bunches of Marco Rubio's, and they were doing everyone else's job.
reconstruction ? (Score:3)
Ancestor worship (Score:5, Insightful)
do these substances bring out a reality not normally visable, or do they make the brain invent these things. if so where or what is the brain getting the info from ? Why do multiple people report the same things ? (suggesting external input not self generated ?
The mushrooms are almost certainly not making an invisible aspect of reality visible.
That being said, this report is very interesting from an anthropological point of view: ancestor worship.
The report doesn't say whether the tiny people were recognized by the viewer (and I couldn't find any references), but this effect might have been the source of ancestor worship among the people of southeast Asia, where the mushroom grows.
Ancestor worship and animism (belief that the spirits of things hang around after death) might have its roots in this sort of psychedelic experience.
Re:Ancestor worship (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not "every" human brain. It's just "most" human brains.
Be that as it may, you might consider asking Gemini such a question. Of course, answers from AI aren't guaranteed to be accurate, but answers from random posters on Slashdot come with even less of a guarantee.
But here, let me save you the effort by posting Gemini's reply:
While researchers are still isolating the exact chemical compound inside Lanmaoa asiatica—which is unique and unrelated to classical psilocybin "magic mushrooms"—neuroscience and psychiatry offer a fascinating framework for why a chemical can cause such a highly specific, repeatable flaw in human perception.
1. The Disruption of "Size Constancy"
To understand why the people are tiny, we look at a neurological concept called size constancy. Your brain continuously performs complex mathematics to ensure that when a friend walks away from you, you perceive them as moving further away, rather than physically shrinking—even though the actual image hitting your retina is getting smaller. This relies on a highly calibrated feedback loop between the primary visual cortex (V1), which processes raw shapes, and the visual association cortices, which interpret depth, distance, and context. When a toxin disrupts this communication channel, it causes a specific sensory distortion called micropsia. If the brain tries to project an object or a memory into the visual field while the size-constancy machinery is offline, the object defaults to a drastically scaled-down size (often measured at exactly 1 to 2 centimeters by patients).
2. The Brain's "Pareidolia" and Object-Recognition Hardware
Why does the brain specifically manufacture human figures instead of just shrinking the existing room? Human brains possess hyper-specialized, dedicated neural architecture designed to recognize faces and bodies, primarily located in the fusiform face area (FFA) and the extrastriate body area (EBA). This hardware is so sensitive that it causes pareidolia—making us see faces in electrical outlets or burnt toast. When a psychoactive compound overstimulates or uncouples these specific regions, the visual system begins firing "spontaneously." Because these circuits are hardwired exclusively to process human attributes, the hallucination cannot be an abstract geometric pattern. The brain is forced to piece together the chaotic neural static using its strongest, most deeply ingrained template: the human form.
3. The "Release Phenomenon" (Deafferentation)
Lilliputian hallucinations are not exclusive to mushrooms; they are also the hallmark of Charles Bonnet Syndrome (where people losing their eyesight see tiny people) and certain stages of Parkinson’s disease. The leading neurological theory for both is the release phenomenon: Under normal conditions, a steady stream of real-world data from your eyes acts as an "inhibitory" brake, keeping your visual association cortices from running wild. If a toxin suddenly blocks or alters this sensory input, the brain's internal dream-generation software is "released" from its brakes. Left to its own devices, the visual cortex starts pulling random information from memory and projecting it into the physical room. Because the interactive physics engine of the brain is still online, 97% of these hallucinations interact realistically with the environment—marching across actual tables or ducking under tablecloths.
The Neuro-Chemical Frontier: Classical psychedelics like psilocybin primarily bind to serotonin $5\text{-HT}_{2\text{A}}$ receptors, causing geometric distortions and emotional shifts. Because Lanmaoa asiatica causes a clinical syndrome completely distinct from a typical psilocybin trip, scientists believe its active compound targets entirely different pathways—likely involving acetylcholine or gabaergic networks, which directly control attention, reality-monitoring, and visual gating.
Re: Ancestor worship (Score:2)
Wow, Gemini seems to view humans as just another machine.
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Wow, Gemini seems to view humans as just another machine.
It does that to preserve parity, since many humans view Gemini as another sentient being.
If it didn't preserve parity, this Simuverse would start to break down and we'd realize spacetime is a holding tank where thinking entities are thrown to sleep it off for a few billion years when we throw a cosmic tantrum. It's normally bounded by a Schwarzchild field - which is called that because it prevents we Schwarzchildren from escaping our crib until we've had a good nap.
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The human brain is fascinating. There was a prescription drug advertised with all the typical side effects except for one. Excessive gambling. Now that is an oddly specific side effect. There was also a drug to curb nicotine addiction but with the side effects of vivid dreams and some people even having waking nightmares.
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Nicotine on its own causes vivid dreams. Maybe the medications increase someone's sensitivity so they can taper off, and thus, cause vivid dreams.
If you don't believe me, slap on a nicotine pouch before bed and you'll have wacky dreams all night long. I kind of enjoyed it when I was using those as I don't normally dream (or don't remember them).
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Not remembering your dreams usually means you are low on zinc and/or b6, zinc being more likely. The usual supplement dose is 30mg. If you try it don't take it before bed; take it with breakfast or lunch. Also, don't expect anything for a week or more. It takes time to build up a proper serum level. It certainly increased my dream recall dramatically.
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Yeah my dad was on that stuff back in the 90s, he said the dreams were so awful he had to stop using it
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
I quit smoking after 28 years using Chantix, I didn't even put any effort into it. I'm convinced one of the ingredients is actual magic.
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
BTW, I had zero side effects from the chantix.
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Is there any other evidence of their existence, such as missing food or other supplies that would be consistent with ongoing need, not to mention unexplained pollution, etc?
No.
Do multiple people report seeing the same people in the same spot at the same time when they take these mushrooms together, under controlled conditions where they cannot hear each other's descriptions?
No.
While we have no logical way to disprove the existence of alternate realities, there is also no good reason to posit their existence
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
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If I whack you in the head, you'll see stars. That doesn't mean you are a replacement for the Hubble Space Telescope.
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I suppose the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics gives us a reason to posit something similar to "alternate realities." Published physicists who have studied the evidence in much greater depth than I have, and understand the math much better than I do, take this seriously. Were it not for them, I would dismiss it as junk science.
But even if we posit many worlds, the theory doesn't predict any means by which taking drugs would cause one to see things that reside in these completely decohered
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
"
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
"meaning that these "people" would not be capable of speech or abstract thought (or really much more than rats or similar-sized animals are capable of)."
Brains are not equal. A parrot does a lot with a tiny brain for example. I think the rest of the argument is more compelling
Re: reconstruction ? (Score:2)
"suggesting external input not self generate"
What it actually is suggesting is similar cognitive and sensory structures in the human mind.
Lots of substances can be used to instill a feeling of dread. This does not imply there is some external dreadful presence. It implies that dread is chemically triggered in the brain.
Re:reconstruction ? (Score:4, Insightful)
your entire perception of reality is actually a controlled hallucination. your brain literally invents reality from external stumuli: photons, waves and particles in the air, etc. mixed with your own past experiences.
substances (and other particular circumstances) can trigger connections in your brain that cause your perception to change, or even runs amok. my (uninformed) guess is that these shrooms somehow trigger areas of the brain involved in shape recognition, and human shapes in particular. there is quite a bit of medical literature about people consistently hallucinating very specific stuff.
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do these substances bring out a reality not normally visable
No, because we already know that alternate reality is full of alien bugs, not tiny people. [fandom.com]
Creepy. (Score:3, Funny)
I thought it was fiction [wikipedia.org].
Finally (Score:5, Funny)
Finally a way to enjoy the Willow remake!
Better hurry (Score:3)
There hasn't been enough time since this was in the news (months ago) for it to be illegal yet. Where can I get some without going to china myself?
This. (Score:4, Interesting)
In my younger days, the list of psychedelics I tried was pretty lengthy. And I never had a single bad trip. Not one. I was always joked while not joking that the stereotyped hallucinations always eluded me. I wanted to see elves peeking at me from behind bushes. But no matter how deep I went - and I went 800 mcg of LSD deep - the hallucinations topped off at melty, wooshy, and emotionally bizarre and impactful. I never hallucinated specific, coherent events or individuals.
Well, here it is. I would return from a 25 year hiatus to try that.
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Good to know I think I topped at 400 at YES in Colt Park '74, like you just great party meds.
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But no matter how deep I went - and I went 800 mcg of LSD deep - the hallucinations topped off at melty, wooshy, and emotionally bizarre and impactful. I never hallucinated specific, coherent events or individuals.
Makes me wonder if that is related to how one normally thinks? Lately, I've been reading/watching more about how neurotypical versus various neurodivergent types perceive things. One of the topics is how one experiences thoughts. The visualization of things falls on a spectrum ranging from those who can visualize photographic images on one end to the other end being aphantasia - where they cannot form visual images at all.
That's definitely a thing, and people having different types of acid trips is definite
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Well, I did once hallucinate a conversat
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I really hope the Ritalin + Xanax overprescription days are behind us. Giving children addictive benzos that they'll either have to take for life or go through multiple series of withdrawal is terrible. I wonder if I will ever be able to ditch prescriptions for good. I did once when I was about 17 or 18. It was much easier then because that stuff wasn't anywhere near as addictive/tolerance building.
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I'm not much into drugs, but I have always wanted to try psychedelics. Sounds so interesting! But I wouldn't know where to get any or how to safely take one.
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I had one breakthrough DMT experience where I saw 'the machine elves' (I just saw what I describe as fast-moving fractals that I 'felt' were beckoning to me); but, we have matching experiences w/the other primary psychedelics: I only had relatively minor on-top visual distortions with even the largest doses of LSD (1500+ mcg) or mushrooms.
That said, everyone is different. I know that some of my friends absolutely lost their fucking minds on a few tabs of LSD and, purportedly, experienced wild hallucinations
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I'm guessing you don't experience intense anxiety in life, or have an anxiety disorder that 30% of humans live with. The potential anxiety problems or bad trips don't have much to do with hallucinations though, just paranoia and the fact that some substances or just feelings set off the stress response in some people. I can't take anything like LSD. THC gives me terror. Like extreme psychosis terror. It's no fun. 30-some years ago when cannabis came from Jamaica and had about 3-5% THC it was not a problem,
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That's correct. I don't experience those things. But holy hell... I mean, I've done ketamine, from a tiny bump to the deepest hole. I found it to be the most intensely bizarre experience of all, because it upends all normal relationships, like cause and effect, identity, language... all out the window. But never hallucinations of coherence that retained the trappings of normalcy.
Psychonauts (Score:3)
I believe I speak for all psychonauts when I say, "take my money"
Reality? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course this invites the wacky hypothesis that the mushrooms enable the person eating them to perceive something that is real but hidden somehow. I propose to test this by having multiple people take it in the same time and place, and then independently produce detailed descriptions of the specific tiny people that they see. They will either match or they won't, and then we'll have the answer.
We must get to the bottom of this!
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I've often wondered if the legends of elves, goblins and trolls are the remnants of our ancient memories of other hominids.
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An ogre seems like a pretty accurate description of how you would describe a human hunting neanderthal.
A werewolf seems like how you might describe a bear with mange.
There are several diseases including tuberculosis that closely parallel the symptoms of vampire myths.
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And I just now realized I had left a hole in my early-hominid theory. And that hole is that we may actually retain some Neandertal stories as well. I've been trying to think of what might represent larger mythical monsters, trolls, giants, etc., but early humans were the tallest of the bunch (to our knowledge). What if the
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why do rats who have never seen a cat
Probably because that's how the mind works. Some stimulus triggers the generation of a mental image which prompts an appropriate response to the danger at hand. It's a useful instinct for self preservation.
So the question becomes: Why should psychedelics trigger an 'inherited memory' which presumably demands an immediate response? Self preservation? Having no experience with something may require a reaction based on something other than learned experience.
"An interesting animal. A tiger, you say? I'd like to get a closer look at it."
That sort of gene doesn't propagate to subsequent g
Re: Reality? (Score:2)
You need to go one step further. Make sure your subjects have never heard of these mushrooms or that they cause hallucinations of little people and see if their hallucinations involve little people. I have a feeling people are hallucinating little people in particular because they've been told in the past these mushrooms will cause you to hallucinate little people, so they go into the experience already biased to see them.
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Ohh good point! In fact, we shouldn't even tell them there might be hallucinations at all. I'm sure the IRB will be fine with that, I'll get right on it!
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Agreed. Also, nice to see another 3-digit UID user still on here!
[reaches for walker to stand up]
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Neat! I'm pretty sure I created my account the day that that account creation was possible, as did you apparently!
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You may get more confusion than conclusions. In high school I hypnotized a few friends (individually, not together), told them they could go out-of-body, and asked them to describe the house nextdoor, which was completely different from mine. They all got the floor plan right, but the interior decorating, furniture, people, and pets were all over the place.
Most boletes are safe to eat, but (Score:2)
... two warning signs are red colour and bluing when cut, and this has them both.
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Eating wild or unidentified mushrooms seems like one of those things where the reward doesn't come anywhere near the risk. Like Fugu.
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If you feel the need to eat an unidentified mushroom, though, boletes (pore mushrooms) are what you want to pick. Leave anything with gills alone. The family lacks the deadly amatoxins and orellanine. They only have gastrointestinal irritants and potential allergens (and, apparently, novel psychedelics!), and even then, it's only like a dozen species that have them, and nearly all, if not all, are either red and/or stain blue, with the biggest culprits doing both. There's only been one confirmed death fr
Common Side Effects (Score:2)
A fantastic animated series showcases this exact phenomenon. Well except for the strange healing powers. But anyhow it’s very entertaining and definitely worth your time. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2... [imdb.com]
Could it be a bacteria? (Score:2)
I mean, there could be an associated bacteria that produces the toxin.
Morning Glory uses a fungus, maybe this fungus is using something else?
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Fermi Paradox Resolved! (Score:2)
Of course the aliens developed cloaking technology.
It all makes sense! (Score:3)
Who knew Lilliputian hallucination was a thing :o (Score:2)