'Inside the Dystopian World of Germany's Free Speech Crackdown' (yahoo.com) 146
Thousands of Germans have been threatened with fines or prison sentences for social media posts, reports The Telegraph, calling the country's political speech laws "unusually stringent for an EU member state."
One German had his home raided for calling a minister a "Schwachkopf [dummy]" while another was fined €2,000 (£1,700) for calling Friedrich Merz a "lying Fritz" under a law that, critics claim, makes it effectively illegal to make fun of politicians. The number of investigations under Section 86a, the Nazi symbols ban... has more than doubled over the past decade according to official police statistics. Investigations into the "political insult" law also reached record levels in 2025. The surge in cases is so vast that the UN has launched an investigation into free speech violations in Germany, a step typically reserved for dictatorships and banana republics...
In one recent case, a pensioner was investigated under Section 188 for posting "Pinocchio is coming" on Facebook, after he learnt Friedrich Merz, the chancellor, was visiting his hometown... The case was dropped after the story caused an outcry in Germany, and police have since clarified that calling the chancellor Pinocchio is not a crime... In November 2024, police in Bavaria raided the home of another pensioner because he called Robert Habeck, the then vice-chancellor of Germany, a "schwachkopf", or dummy. The raid was reportedly launched after Mr Habeck personally filed a criminal complaint against the pensioner. Prosecutors eventually dropped the investigation after deciding that the insult "dummy" was not of "sufficient weight" to merit criminal charges.
While such cases might seem like bizarre outliers, there are plenty of others. In 2021, police raided a man's apartment in Hamburg after he told a senator "you're such a d---," and this year a resident was fined €2,000 for calling Mr Merz a "lying Fritz". Official figures show a record 4,792 Section 188 cases were filed in Germany in 2025, with the numbers rising by nearly 85 per cent between 2023 and 2025.
The article notes both left- and right-leaning free speech activists in Germany are calling for some of the stricter laws to be scrapped. And it adds that the uproar "bears some similarities to the free speech debate in Britain, where citizens have had a knock on the door from police over opinions posted online."
In one recent case, a pensioner was investigated under Section 188 for posting "Pinocchio is coming" on Facebook, after he learnt Friedrich Merz, the chancellor, was visiting his hometown... The case was dropped after the story caused an outcry in Germany, and police have since clarified that calling the chancellor Pinocchio is not a crime... In November 2024, police in Bavaria raided the home of another pensioner because he called Robert Habeck, the then vice-chancellor of Germany, a "schwachkopf", or dummy. The raid was reportedly launched after Mr Habeck personally filed a criminal complaint against the pensioner. Prosecutors eventually dropped the investigation after deciding that the insult "dummy" was not of "sufficient weight" to merit criminal charges.
While such cases might seem like bizarre outliers, there are plenty of others. In 2021, police raided a man's apartment in Hamburg after he told a senator "you're such a d---," and this year a resident was fined €2,000 for calling Mr Merz a "lying Fritz". Official figures show a record 4,792 Section 188 cases were filed in Germany in 2025, with the numbers rising by nearly 85 per cent between 2023 and 2025.
The article notes both left- and right-leaning free speech activists in Germany are calling for some of the stricter laws to be scrapped. And it adds that the uproar "bears some similarities to the free speech debate in Britain, where citizens have had a knock on the door from police over opinions posted online."
Who would have thought (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Who would have thought (Score:4, Informative)
Reading anything from tabloid news like the Daily Telegraph is a slippery slope. Spreading bullshit and misinformation is their whole thing.
Now back in reality, there was no "police raid". There were two duty officers executing a warrant at the house of Niehoff, which they promptly decided to *not* actually do after a sensible discussion with the guy. The house was never searched, and the reason behind the granting of the warrant was investigated and determined to be invalid.
But I guess that doesn't sell right wing shock headlines, so be afraid citizen, THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU.
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Re:Who would have thought (Score:4, Informative)
Reading anything from tabloid news like the Daily Telegraph is a slippery slope. Spreading bullshit and misinformation is their whole thing.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com... [mediabiasfactcheck.com] ("Overall, we rate The Telegraph Right Biased based on story selection that strongly favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing of information and some failed fact checks.")
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Was one of the unnamed people called Niehoff? I even did a text search in that Yahoo link and there was n-o-t-h-i-n-g.
Oh, Remember "Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In" from the early 1970s? Their "very interesting, but stoopid" fake German wore Nazi uniforms with all the associated symbols, I assume that could never have been shown in Germany. It could not have been anyway, nowadays most Germans speak decent English but that was not the cas
The end of capitalism (Score:2, Insightful)
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Those crazy capitalists. So funny [meme-arsenal.com].
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What??? What on earth does this story have to do with any kind of economic system, capitalist or otherwise?
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A capitalist subverting journalism to push an agenda through an oligopolistic media market just because investing in the corruption of the political process provides the highest returns has everything to do with the capitalist economic system.
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And how, exactly, are you able to tie this particular corruption, to capitalism specifically, as opposed to ordinary corruption? You do realize that corruption occurs in every kind of economic system, including socialism, communism, dictatorships, and capitalism. In fact, corruption is *more* prevalent in systems that are *not* capitalist. Take a look at this map ranking countries on a corruption scale. https://www.transparency.org/e... [transparency.org] Notice that the capitalist nations are the lowest on the scale, not the
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Tony, I know you're functionally illiterate and cannot parse a compound sentence, but please, feed my opinion to the LLM and ask it the same question. It will answer correctly, you imbecile and you can learn something and not show everyone how dumb you are.
If you do that and don't understand what the model says, ask it to put it in simple words.
Actually, fuck it, here, I asked Gemini on your behalf, and I asked it to keep the answer simple.
==
Imagine a game where the main rule is: "Whoever gets the most mone
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I looked. I think you're bringing capitalism into this because anti-capitalism is your obsession, and you'll bring it into any subject, related or not. The story has zero to do with economic systems.
The only way to stop the Nazis (Score:3, Insightful)
.. is to become the Nazis.
Re:The only way to stop the Nazis (Score:5, Informative)
I hate to sound like Infowars, but you are being lied to. Nobody has been arrested for calling a politician a "dummy".
The Telegraph is a British newspaper that often lies about this stuff, including when people in the UK are arrested. They claim it was because of a tweet or because a journalist reported something, but in reality it's because they made a credible threat or tried to interfere with an on-going criminal trial.
In this case it's true that technically if someone makes a complaint a person can be prosecuted for insults in Germany. However, the reality is that any prosecution has to be balanced against proportionality and freedom of expression, and will rarely proceed unless there is some other aspect of the crime that warrants it. In this case, the person in question has been posting anti-Semitic stuff on Twitter, and Germany does actually have strong laws when it comes to things like holocaust denial and promotion of Nazi material.
Come on, just think about it for a moment. If people were being prosecuted for insults in Germany, every school kid would have a criminal record and there would be North Korean levels of paranoia.
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Except there are many examples from many sources.
One editor was given a 7 month sentence for showing an edited picture of a politician saying "I hate freedom of opinion".
Other more general examples:
https://brusselssignal.eu/2026... [brusselssignal.eu]
https://www.welt.de/politik/de... [www.welt.de]
"If people were being prosecuted for insults in Germany, every school kid would have a criminal record..."
You seem to have utterly missed the point that these prosecutions are entirely political speech against the government or ministers specifical
Re:The only way to stop the Nazis (Score:5, Informative)
Come on, what did I just tell you? Look at your links. No details on the prosecutions, just extremely unlikely claims that there was a fine for one specific post. In reality, a single post is never enough, there must have been a lot more to it.
I'll give you another example. The Telegraph claimed that a criminal avoided deportation because he owned a cat. Later a politician, who would later go on to become Prime Minister, repeated the claim, adding "and I'm not making this up". Well, they were both making it up. He avoided deportation because he had established a family life in the UK, with a partner and a child, and it was deemed that the harm done to them would be disproportionate. The fact that they had a cat was merely on small detail in the much larger set of circumstances.
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There is a bill which has either just been passed or is currently being discussed, it is to criminalise calling Israel's right-to-exist into question. It looks to me to be stupid posturing because the German constitution guarantees free speech.
What you will see quite frequently in Germany is a city banning a political demonstration for some reason or other. The organisers then appeal this ban in a court (it takes maybe a day) and it gets overturned. I can't remember such a ban not being overturned but ma
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Yes, it's worth remembering that the German constitution guarantees freedom of speech, and the ECHR also guarantees freedom of expression.
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You have the mechanism wrong. In Germany, you need a permit for a demonstration. The purpose is so that things can be planned for. This permit can be denied on some reasons, like excessive disruption or high likelihood of violence. As this is a decision by some bureaucrat, you contest it in court and that is the place where a neutral assessment takes place. In most cases, the demonstration is then allowed or allowed with conditions by the court.
Incidentally, the allied forces did a complete review of German
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I would also like to add that the NAZI symbol ban was put into German law by the allied forces after WW2. Any complaints about that one by UK (or US) media is a complete self-own.
And no, nobody has been arrested. Some (typically Bavarian right-wing officials) are currently overdoing it regarding the laws about insults. There is push-back. Things will eventually work out.
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I hate to sound like Infowars, but you are being lied to. Nobody has been arrested for calling a politician a "dummy".
In this case it's true that technically if someone makes a complaint a person can be prosecuted for insults in Germany. However, the reality is that any prosecution has to be balanced against proportionality and freedom of expression, and will rarely proceed unless there is some other aspect of the crime that warrants it.
I can't get over the people saying nothing to see here fake news folks and then proceeding to admit you can be prosecuted for insults.
In this case, the person in question has been posting anti-Semitic stuff on Twitter, and Germany does actually have strong laws when it comes to things like holocaust denial and promotion of Nazi material.
Come on, just think about it for a moment. If people were being prosecuted for insults in Germany, every school kid would have a criminal record and there would be North Korean levels of paranoia.
My thoughts exactly. Just think about what you are saying for a moment. The most hilarious aspect are people comparing Germany to North Korea and doing the whole at least we are not that bad thing. The lack of introspection is breathtaking.
Can anyone from Germany (Score:2)
Re:Can anyone from Germany (Score:5, Informative)
This has nothing to do with the speech clampdown, but the general gist of it is true. Most of the cases "cited" by the Telegraph article are several years older than the recent decline in industrialisation.
I put cited in quotes, but it's the usual misinformation bullshit. Niehoff never had his home raided. Two duty officers went to his house to execute a search warrant but on discussion with Niehoff just aborted the warrant realising it was issued for someone who wasn't a threat. Also the reason for the warrant was that Niehoff used far right hate symbols, it's just the shock media who reported it was due to calling the minister a dummy.
The lying fritz story is true, but it deeply divided the country and quite a significant portion of the political spectrum want the law abolished. The problem is the law was created in response to a politician being assassinated.
Re:Can anyone from Germany (Score:4, Informative)
Full agree. Also this headline by the Telegraph is total clickbait.
"Dystopian World"? We do have free speech within limits, but it's neither China, Russia or North Korea.
But we're also no free speech absolutists.
This article is a pretty bad framing by that newspaper, but tbh it fits into their regular pattern of reporting.
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This has nothing to do with the speech clampdown, but the general gist of it is true. Most of the cases "cited" by the Telegraph article are several years older than the recent decline in industrialisation.
I put cited in quotes, but it's the usual misinformation bullshit. Niehoff never had his home raided. Two duty officers went to his house to execute a search warrant but on discussion with Niehoff just aborted the warrant realising it was issued for someone who wasn't a threat. Also the reason for the warrant was that Niehoff used far right hate symbols, it's just the shock media who reported it was due to calling the minister a dummy.
The lying fritz story is true, but it deeply divided the country and quite a significant portion of the political spectrum want the law abolished. The problem is the law was created in response to a politician being assassinated.
The problem the Telegraph is facing is that their bullshit isn't working any more. Bullshit is like a drug, not just in the fact it addles the brain but also in the fact that as you're exposed to it you build up resistance to it, much like the smack addict who needs more and increasingly powerful hits of heroin to get the same high, those who live off of the bullshit of sources like the Tele are resistant to the kind of BS it used to print, so they need even more powerful BS to get the same impotent rage.
Re:Can anyone from Germany (Score:5, Interesting)
This "analysis" has been full 3/4 of the ruzzkie propaganda since the start of the Ukraine wars in 2014. It is being repeated by Russia-funded outlets all over the place for years.
The real "feet" of it are actually Soviet, you can find almost the same stuff (Germany doing the bidding of the Washington masters, economy going to fail because of militarization, etc. etc. etc.) in ancient issues of the Sovet central TV's "International Panorama" show from the 80s like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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It is pure hyperbole. Yes, as always, there is stupid politics in Germany. But there is no "collapse" in sight and overall things work reasonably well. No comparison to, say, the very bad trajectory the US is currently on.
Also, there is no "speech clampdown". There is a few eager-beavers that thought they could silence people. These are, at this time, isolated incidents with a lot of public attention and push-back. I am pretty sure most of the people behind these complaints are regretting them by now.
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You are right on a few points and miserably off on most.
Germany's strength has been and are it's good engineers, less their politicians.
Engineers have a habit of straight reasoning which might end in black and white thinking.
I am very familiar with Germany and find many of these black and white 'solutions' utterly stupid, like when in traffic and giving the stinky to another driver can and sometimes will be prosecuted as defamation.
In other words, although they understand free speech some consider
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Indeed. The level of misinformation and pure nonsense is staggering. Germany is in no way "headed for a collapse". Yes, there are problems, but there are always problems. No, there are no "horrible" problems at all.
Do it here (Score:2)
We should do this in the US but fine and jail only people I disagree with.
Remark (Score:3)
I am unsure if I would prefer having Elon Musk insinuating an assassination of a journalist with impunity.
Every attempt of regulation is a dance of a razor blade. Combine this with executive power, there is always a danger of stiffing free speech.
On the other hand, all court decisions are usually well argued. Press reports often simplify the case until it become unrecognizable.
Currently I am more worried about the limitations on the German version of the Freedom of Information act being discussed than for the free speech.
Free speech is fun when everybody agrees with you (Score:2, Interesting)
Germany isn't even the exception, it is happening all over Europe.
Queen Von Der Leyen also would rather have a speech gestapo to get rid of all these opposing opinions.
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Nobody voted her in democratically, so the EU is not a democracy, but a tyranny disguised through "convenience" for the Europeans.
Take India ... (Score:2)
The door kicker: Habeck (Score:2, Interesting)
The doorkicking and borderline illegal house invasion came from Habeck, the short-lived darling of the left-green germans who will bend over backwards that it was not his fault. The victim of the search called him evil names online, and the tolerant-inclusive could not tolerate being called stupid.
Oblig quote already years old (Score:3, Interesting)
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Several science fiction writers predicted that east and west becoming more and more like each other 75 years ago. James Blish [wikipedia.org] and Jerry Pournelle [wikipedia.org] both come to mind.
Stupid article (Score:2)
It is not about free speech - it is about insulting other people, especially in online forms or defamation.
In both cases the person in question has to file a case. The police can/does not do anything without a warrant.
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It is not about free speech - it is about insulting other people, especially in online forms or defamation.
The doublespeak people are peddling attempting to excuse and or downplay the indefensible is rather shocking.
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You are completely mistaken. The posting you answered to is exactly how this works. This is individuals filing defamation claims. And the person accused has every right to make that claim public, so some politicians (Habeck, for example) found themselves in pretty hot water for having done that and having exposed how fragile their egos are. Hence using this possibility has mostly backfired in the few isolated cases where it was done by politicians.
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You are completely mistaken. The posting you answered to is exactly how this works.
I wasn't arguing about the procedure, so no, I am not mistaken in any way.
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Yes, keep doubling down on the ignorance. That will work...
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Yes, keep doubling down on the ignorance. That will work...
That's exactly what you're doing when you claim insulting people is not free speech. Just in case you haven't read the thread you're "contributing" to, that is exactly what you are doing. If you don't understand why insults can be free speech, then you must be still be mad that people said mean things about Hitler.
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Ok, lets go into details: Germany has a law (Paragraph 185 StGB) that make insults illegal as soon as they reach a certain threshold. That laws require a complaint by the person insulted. It has to be an insult, it does not apply to opinions or the like. Hence calling somebody an "asshole" may qualify, but calling them a "person with a negative contribution to society" probably does not in most circumstances.
So, no, this is NOT about "speech I do not agree with" at all. Incidentally, making such a complaint
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Ok, lets go into details: Germany has a law (Paragraph 185 StGB) that make insults illegal as soon as they reach a certain threshold. That laws require a complaint by the person insulted. It has to be an insult, it does not apply to opinions or the like. Hence calling somebody an "asshole" may qualify, but calling them a "person with a negative contribution to society" probably does not in most circumstances.
So, no, this is NOT about "speech I do not agree with" at all.
Villager A: Villager B is an asshole.
Villager B: I do not agree.. Police, arrest Villager A for calling me an asshole..
Police: Villager A you are under arrest.
gweihir: ... this is NOT about "speech I do not agree with" ................. AT ALL
This is abject lunacy. Apparently war is peace and freedom is slavery.
Misleading headline. (Score:2)
This is mostly just civil slander lawsuits ramping up. People are getting way to comfortable stepping on other peoples rights and slandering in what is basically a public forum.
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You seem insecure.
And the US? (Score:3)
It's almost ironic that this is reported the same week as journalists in the US getting visits from FBI agents for reporting about security concerns with the new Air Force One....
Formally, what's happening in Germany is enforcing existing laws against insults, libel and slander. I don't think any of these are legal in the US either. And I think it's a low bar to exercise your right to free speech, to do so without those.
It could even be argued that keeping insult and hate speech out of free/political speech will protect it. (Although it is debatable in which cases something can be protected by limiting it)
It's in the details of each case.
And I have to agree with the Article in one of the mentioned cases. While most of the cases boil down to simple misdemeanor cases of insults. Slap on the wrist like a speeding ticket. "Pimmelgate", however, is different. Raids were ordered by the state secretary (who was insulted) AFTER all necessary evidence has been gathered, the suspect admitted and the 1000 (or whatever a "dick" is worth these days)(*) was ready to be written. In a clear abuse of power, Andy Grote wanted to send message by having that guys apartment trashed.
So that case is a scandal in its own right, but not representative of the state of free speech in Germany. Each SLAPP case is a bigger danger to it.
(*) Update:
Before the raids happend, the suspect even has been told that his case will be dismisses because of its minor nature.
Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
containing another example of someone thinking rules apply only to other people.
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It's almost ironic that this is reported the same week as journalists in the US getting visits from FBI agents for reporting about security concerns with the new Air Force One....
When you're arguing about whether the problem is worse in US or Germany, you're admitting there's a problem.
Formally, what's happening in Germany is enforcing existing laws against insults, libel and slander.
Formally, what's happening in Germany where you can't express your opinion that someone is bad is destruction of free speech.
I don't think any of these are legal in the US either.
They aren't, but just calling someone names is slander in Germany, where in the US it's an expression of opinion. Also, in the US fact is an absolute defense against slander and libel. It doesn't matter if your intent is to cause someone financial harm, for example; if you are d
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It's almost ironic that this is reported the same week as journalists in the US getting visits from FBI agents for reporting about security concerns with the new Air Force One....
When you're arguing about whether the problem is worse in US or Germany, you're admitting there's a problem.
I'm the first to admit that defining defining the limits of someones freedom can never be without problems. Yet they need to be defined, because you can't have that freedom at the cost of someone elses freedom.
I even went through the examples and commented on which of those I see as a problem, too (Pimmelgate) and which I don't see as a problem (cases of simple and clear insults). That's simply blown out of proportion.
Maybe because someone is doing exactly what you said I was doing: Pointing at someone else
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Formally, what's happening in Germany is enforcing existing laws against insults, libel and slander. I don't think any of these are legal in the US either. And I think it's a low bar to exercise your right to free speech, to do so without those.
Not even close.
The whole point of freedom of speech is the ability to communicate thoughts and ideas without fear of reprisal. This is logically distinct from a license to do whatever you please (e.g. anarchy).
There is no free speech interest in libel and slander as it is based on knowingly promulgating lies to further some purpose. Insults on the other hand are expressions of pure speech conveying unflattering thoughts and ideas about someone. Lumping them all together is as absurd as thinking insults a
calling the chancellor Pinocchio is not a crime (Score:2)
He might even become a real boy.
Telegraph aka Torygraph (Score:3)
Is gaslighting Germany. In that it fails to report on the same crackdown on free speech in the UK.
The Telegraph AKA Torygraph is therefore not a trusted source.
Incorrect about the Schwachkopf issue (Score:3)
As German-speaking people can read on https://netzpolitik.org/2025/g... [netzpolitik.org] it was the public prosecutor's office who asked for the home to be raided, not the vice chancelor. And they knew that the raided person also posted antisemitic stuff, which is also illegal. They just didn't mention this as the official request for the raid.
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This also has caused massive backlash. Habeck very likely regrets having filed that complaint. It made him look very bad.
And yes, the search was already asked for by the prosecutor before Habeck filed his complaint, due to other things the person did.
No mention of Godwin yet (Score:2)
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They would actually have to _start_ arresting people for that first. That has not happened. The Telegraph is pushing misinformation.
As to the NASI symbol ban (Score:2)
That one was put into German law by the US and the other allies after WW2. Any outrage against that one by US media is a self-own.
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A, sorry, "UK media". Not any less of a self-own though.
als die nazis die kommunisten holten, (Score:2)
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein kommunist ...
https://platform.theverge.com/... [theverge.com]
Not quite accurate (Score:2)
Germans did nazi that one coming... (Score:2)
That's blown out of proportion, (Score:2)
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He doest care as he uses all your money to enrich himself and his peers and bombs other countries, whilst making sure the populace is dumb and poor.
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that username. it is funny.
(the political take... eh)
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when in your own country corruption is a national policy, election maps are redrawn to remove voting power from a fifth of the population and the tail wags the dog in wars of aggression that putin can only lust after.
ow, say, can you see by the dawn's early light
what so proudly you hung at the twilight's last gleaming;
looks like the corpse of american democracy, lol.
ummm.... The Telegraph is a British paper, you know...
not much of a nexus to the US in the article except for one woman who fled here and applied for asylum apparently.
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We call it the "Torygraph" Tory being an old world for a conservative, like the word "wanker"
It's mostly read by aspirational peasants who thought Margaret Thatcher was hot.
Re: Ah, yes, fear ze German diktatorship (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because someone else is being a dickhead doesn't mean you're in the clear.
How does US corruption make this not free speech issue in Germany?
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How? Somewhat like this:
1. The claims in the TFS are exaggerated and unsupported by the evidence presented in TFA.
2. A large portion of the complaints are made by scum funded precisely by the kind of corruption which brought the MAGAts to power in the US.
3. TFA is not about genuine concerns, it is a demonstration of MAGA's "culture" of fake grievances used as a vehicle to promote abroad the kind of fascism that's taken over the worse half of the US.
There are no significant "freeze peach" issues in Germany,
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There are no significant "freeze peach" issues in Germany, there is a campaign to create the appearance that these exist.
Sure it is never an issue until it affects you.
There is only one way to protect free expression and that is absolutism about it. The moment we allow anyone to place any sort of judgement about what is and is not acceptable to say, it is as good as over.
There is nothing like freedom of expression in the EU. American policy makers need to remember our European Allies might be that, but in the end they do not share our values, and that has to mean limits on how far our cooperation and 'free trade' can and shou
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You know that the Telegraph was bought by the Axel Springer Verlag (which is German) a couple of weeks ago? I wonder how long that "rabidly anti-German" is liable to last.
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Until there are enough brexit imbeciles that good ole Mathias can make good money off.
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MAGA is dominated by uneducated and clueless people who cheer the flag while stepping on the US Constitution. For those idiots, you are correct, facts do not matter, because you have a wannabe fascist dictator talking loudly, and Fox News supporting the rise of the sort of garbage that SHOULD have died after World War II.
With that said, it's bad when people promote the garbage that was the hallmark of the Nazi Party, which Donald Trump has been copying as well.
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MAGA is the epitome of "identity politics", dear anonymous coward, your lot identifies by skin color and christian fundamentalism. You're the largest "grievance group" and it was your politicians that massaged your lies into the framework of corruption and lies that runs the territory formerly known as USA today.
But tell us more about those "knocks from the jackboots" by the Health & Safety minister. Are you babbling about the vaccine policies? I hear they are back with a vengeance under Hickseth, just
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Given how whiny are the Maggots, the talking head at the head of DoD is not wrong to worry about the testosterone level of his flock.
Re:"proud maga" (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"proud maga" (Score:5, Interesting)
These concepts didn't come from maga
Banning science, removing books from libraries, pushing open and harmful religious fundamentalism as "conscience laws", attacks on separation of one specific religion and state powers, harassment and terrorism based on fundamentalist beliefs against hospitals, racism thinly veiled as "preservation of Judeo-Christian heritage" and rewriting history to remove people of the wrong color and religion did, though.
If your view of history made any sense, insulting Christ or shaming Christians would land you in court
Trying to keep christian fundamentalism away from state, as dictated by the US constitution lands people in court all the time. E.g. the recent removal of the Lemon test, etc.
Not Muslims though. Careful with that one.
In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary, come again?
https://www.aclu.org/anti-musl... [aclu.org]
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Promotion by government of one religion over another is very much the sort of thing that this talks about. You can take certain core concepts, such as not killing others and make THOSE laws, but government should not be promoting one religion, or pushing that religion. The moment you do that, it encourages other places to make laws to restrict what YOU do with your religion. Picture it being illegal to eat or sell pork, because that's the belief of those in power in a given place.
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Picture it being illegal to eat or sell pork, because that's the belief of those in power in a given place.
if you can't put down the bacon strips, I'd suggest not moving to Rijad. Similarly if putting up a Cross as a monument in an American park is going to bother you; as an American I'd like to exercise my 1A rights and say "I wish you'd leave, and voting for policies to not extend your visa in the future"
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I've seen what happens when atheists take power in a country. Anyone care to relate what the usual outcome is?
Yes, they become an economic superpower and they slowly take the place of the USA on the world stage.
A very nice country, with very nice, hard-working but still fun-loving (take that, calvinists!) people, thank to them not having religious hangups and neuroses.
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Tell that to your MAGA fellows, I don't give a fuck either way.
Re: "proud maga" (Score:3)
> These concepts didn't come from maga.
MAGA didn't invent anything, but MAGA sure as hell took some old ideas to unimaginable new heights.
Re: "proud maga" (Score:5, Insightful)
As a non American Iâ(TM)d rather have maga than whatever mental gymnastics the Germans performing to justify the latest round of their fascist knee jerks as solutions to problems.
Our former FBI director is currently facing federal charges for posting a picture of "8647", apparently regarding a president that has already been impeached twice. The allegations are that 86 is a call for violence and not impeach and remove from office for example.
Mental gymnastics and fascist knee jerk solutions are kind of this administration's whole thing. Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire. Maybe do a bit more research.
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It's like something out of 1984. The book, not the Van Halen album.
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Re: "proud maga" (Score:4, Informative)
"Over One Hundred Former Senior DOJ Leaders File Brief Opposing Retaliatory Comey Prosecution"
https://washingtonlitigationgr... [washington...ngroup.org]
"More than 1,000 former Department of Justice (DOJ) officials - spanning both Republican and Democratic administrations, a majority of whom were nonpartisan civil servants - have signed a statement condemning the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. The letter calls the indictment an 'unprecedented assault on the rule of law directed by President Donald Trump.' "
https://protectdemocracy.org/w... [protectdemocracy.org]
The DOJ took this to the grand jury at the direction of Trump. This is not normal, and should not even be legal.
There's no reasonable interpreation where '86' as a standalone statement should be taken as a violent threat. Hell, even the literal definition [wikipedia.org] of the phrase does not support that.
"the peculiar circumstances involving repeated actual assassination attempts that seem to be connected to public incitement"
That's not a thing.
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As for the politicization of the DoJ
In the restaurant and bar business we definitely used "86" in more hostile ways than your extremely-far-from-authoritative source suggests.
If public incitement isn't a thing, why did Joe Biden dedicate a whole nationwide speech to it?
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Are you suggesting the grand jury is/was corrupt too?
Not necessarily, we've all seen those books and movies where the simpletons sitting on it can be manipulated by a skillful actor or actress.
There must be a reason these were written/made.
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There is a fair amount of doubt when it comes to some of those "attempted assassination" attempts. You don't regrow an ear for example, and the reactions do not reflect what a true attempt would have resulted in for some of them. Overall, staged "assassination" attempts have just been used as an excuse to create a police state.
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When your last version of Maga was Nazi's I'd be careful too.
No shortage of idiot peasants in history who believed a dictator is going to save them. Maga is the same. As is reform in this country. Even when the frauds leading these movements are exposed as only in it for the money and they don't care where from, the donkeys keep braying.
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I can tell you have never been to Germany or spoken to a German person, because what you apparently believe about that country is complete nonsense.
Tell us, how do you think the UK is doing? The Telegraph, the source of this story, makes up the same crap about here too.
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The actual link takes you to a Yahoo page which is allegedly quoting a Telegraph article 1:1. I suppose that's borderline acceptable because an attempt to read a Telegraph article gets you a "Create your free account or log in" message, but the FA should have least carried a link to the original story.
I would have liked to have at least looked at the original article (without an account) to see when it was written and maybe also who wrote it - the Telegraph was taken over by the German "Axel Springer" grou
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You are just another xenophobic idiot who can't handle anyone who is different than you are. The people who identify as this or that aren't being broken into this or that "identity", they do it themselves when they feel they are being discriminated against. The anti-woke people(you probably fall into that category) still feels that there is no racism in the USA, and that complaints about systematic racism are just people looking for a handout while their rights are being attacked.
If you are blind to th
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Social Media produced this current shit show. We opened Pandora's box and all of the little weirdos and monsters started spreading fear, hate and mistrust for ad revenue. Now we all hate each other, what a legacy for Zuck and Musk. Divide and conquer.
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It is Mathias Döpfner, and most of his portfolio is pro-EU. But that doesn't mean he doesn't want to make money from the brexit wankers as well, hence the Telegraph purchase.
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That's why freedom of speech was defined in greater detail in the German constitution than the US constitution.
It was written having in mind that Hitlers rise to power was based on spewing hate speech under the cover of protected free political speech. That's why insults and hate speech never were covered by free speech rights.(*) But still free speech and political speech have a high level of protection even after enforcing anti-insult laws.
But of course this also requires some level of detail in each case
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Luckily at the time there was a majority for it.