FDA Approves First mRNA Flu Shot (nbcnews.com) 177
The FDA has approved the first mRNA flu vaccine in the United States after a clinical trial found it was about 27% more effective than a standard flu shot. Manufactured by Moderna and marketed as mFlusiva, the vaccine is expected to be available this fall for adults ages 50 to 64 and those 65 and older, though approval for the older group is conditional on Moderna conducting an additional clinical trial, NBC News reports. From the report: Many scientists and public health experts have touted the idea of an mRNA-based flu vaccine, which uses the same messenger RNA platform as the Covid vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer. That's because mRNA vaccines can be manufactured much faster than traditional vaccines, allowing scientists to better match circulating influenza strains. Moderna said it takes two to three months from picking the strain to rolling out its flu shot, compared with about six months for traditional flu shots.
Side effects (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the nice things about mRNA vaccines is that they tend to have fewer side effects. Flu vaccine always makes me feel pretty bad. Hopefully this will be better.
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Funny)
One side effect of mRNA vaccines is anti-vaxxers hanging from street lamps claiming the shots are altering your DNA. Apparently they cannot tell the difference between DNA and mRNA. Where's JFK Jr. when we want to see some dumb-ass quote?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Darwinism at work.
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really, because flu tend to kill old people who ALREADY had kids long ago.
Re: (Score:2)
It's about 1 / 100k in the child bearing age group. That would be more than sufficient if being an antivax dumbass was a genetic trait.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, sadly, they do not cure mental illness.
Re: (Score:2)
In principle, it should be possible to develop a vaccine for certain forms of mental illness. Regrettably, no such thing currently exists and antivaxers are probably too far gone.
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
Which mental illnesses have been determined to have biological causes? Having a treatment which is somewhat effective is not evidence btw
Re: (Score:2)
If mental illnesses were caused by viruses, sure. But the entire point of a vaccine is to stimulate your immune system into creating antibodies to fight specific viruses. I've pretty sure no mental illnesses have been found to have a viral cause (well, social media "viral" may be, but not biological...)
Re: (Score:2)
Willful ignorance is not a mental illness, it is a conscious choice.
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Where's JFK Jr. when we want to see some dumb-ass quote?
The same place he's been for the last quarter century: dead. You're picking on the wrong Kennedy scion.
So I cannot emphasize enough I'm not joking (Score:5, Interesting)
What they were actually talking about is transgenic mice which are mice who have had some Gene edits for use in specific research scenarios.
But somewhere out there is an uncle or an aunt that is absolutely furious that their taxpayer dollars paid for a little boy mouse to wear a dress or something. I don't know I don't listen to those people... I only hear about them because the president of the United States is apparently one of them...
Re: (Score:2)
In defense of anti-vaxxers (Score:4, Insightful)
Intelligence is much more a function of environment than genetics. One's genetic contribution, in theory, sets an upper limit on intelligence potential, but to actualize that potential one needs a solid education. Someone with genius level IQ born into poverty and with no access to education will wind up just as superstitious and backwards as all of their peers.
This goes doubly so for critical thinking, because critical thinking is not natural. Our brains naturally operate on a survival program that relies on logically fallacies and snap judgments because these are right enough most of the time to keep a person alive out in the wild. This is normally combined with learning from pack mates, which is how our species endured for millions of years. So, without the right education, critical thinking is very difficult for us.
The same is true of scientific knowledge. To someone who has not received the necessary in-depth education to understand clearly why science is better than religion, it looks like just another religion, and even worse, a religion with government backing. Governments are notorious liars, so when you combine that with the unintuitive conclusions of science and no foundational understanding, something like a vaccine looks like an outright trap.
Anti-vaxxers are still wrong, and the misinformation they spread is still harmful, but I must have a drop of compassion for them, given that they clearly haven't had the advantages that I've had.
Re: (Score:2)
JFK: Just Fucking Kidding.
RFK: Really Fucking Kidding.
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently they cannot tell the difference between DNA and mRNA.
Most of them can't tell the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground.
Re: (Score:2)
Where's JFK Jr. when we want to see some dumb-ass quote?
I think you mean RFK Jr. (AKA the current so-called sec. of HHS).
JFK Jr. died in a plane crash in 1999.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you vastly over-estimate how much MAGA cares. If the COVID vaccine had been conventional, they'd have been just as loud and angry and anti, but they wouldn't have put "UnPrOvEn tEcHnOlOgY" in their list of annoying arguments.
Re: (Score:2)
Really? Look at the Amish? Assuming they do have lower rates of disease, do you really think the only difference between the Amish and the rest of society is the rate they use preventive medicine?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Turbo cancer? (Score:2)
My brother in Christ, what is this "turbo cancer" you speak of?
Re: Turbo cancer? (Score:2)
Re: Side effects (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You lost me at "Scamdemic".
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
Of course, if it's specific to that spike protein, then the same would not apply to other mRNA vaccines.
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who is severely immuno-compromised (and has to take a specific injection each month to suppress my B-Cells) due to IgA neuropathy, I'm hoping this rolls out past that age range for those in the other categories of at-risk including cancer patients, HIV, transplant, etc...
Partly because while I have an immune system, it's wiping out the memory of mine, and this will mean it's less likely to trigger that Cytokine storm that caused a lot of Covid patients to die, except in this case, the risk is other influenzas causing the same thing.
And if you wonder why they freaked out over Hanta-virus....
I'm a good example. Over 30 years later, I'm fighting to save what I have left of my body and kidneys after getting Hanta-virus, and it matches pretty close to what Covid-19 did in the worst of the reactions, because I lived through that shit in 2001. I only lived through Covid because of the mRNA shot, and even what side-effect I did get from it (moderate fever, etc...) by the time i finally got covid, it was like a really bad cold or mild flu. My wife has asthma and faired better than me as well after she got the shot, but these vaccines are definitely a welcome advance, as they can get a hold on top of whichever strain has managed to gain traction, and can be changed relatively quick if they guess wrong, and another strain/variant happens to gain traction on infecting large masses.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry to hear you have those issues. I have some auto-immune issues too, though not that bad, and I was really worried during COVID.
Even now I usually get a private COVID and flu vaccination every year. I'm not in any of the categories that get them for free, but aside from the safety they provide, I usually travel over the new year and I don't want to get sick while I'm on holiday.
Re: (Score:2)
As someone who is severely immuno-compromised (and has to take a specific injection each month to suppress my B-Cells) due to IgA neuropathy, I'm hoping this rolls out past that age range for those in the other categories of at-risk including cancer patients, HIV, transplant, etc...
Given that status, you may be able to find a provider who would prescribe it off-label. You'll probably end up paying out of pocket for it. But, as the article points out, because the ACIP [wikipedia.org] is such a circus sideshow now, hardly any insurance plan will cover these new vaccines.
Re: (Score:3)
I sort of have the opposite problem, a super agressive immune system. Sounds good right? Not fucking really. Flus have hospitalized me multiple times nearly drowning me in phglem. Vaccines tend to make me feel lousy because the reaction is so strong but dear lord is it an improvement over the disease itself.
Needless to say, covid scared the shit out of me. Still havent had it yet. I think.
Re: (Score:2)
As someone who is severely immuno-compromised (and has to take a specific injection each month to suppress my B-Cells) due to IgA neuropathy, I'm hoping this rolls out past that age range for those in the other categories of at-risk including cancer patients, HIV, transplant, etc...
I have some cousins who through a family member I'm not biologically related to inherited a congenital disease that the only current "cure" for is to have to have an organ transplant at some point in their lives. I have an idea of what you go through from knowing what they go through. I want to point out that you may be able to get your doctor to give you a prescription for the mRNA flu vaccine even if you aren't in the approved age range.
Re: (Score:2)
One of the nice things about mRNA vaccines is that they tend to have fewer side effects. Flu vaccine always makes me feel pretty bad. Hopefully this will be better.
But the horse de-wormer chuggers have constantly told us how many bad side effects there are from mRNA vaccines... tell me they weren't lying. I mean we're all already dead from vaccine hurties within 2 years of even thinking about taking one as they predicted.
RFK Jr must be in a hell of a pickle, he wants to say "vaccine baaaaaad" but flu is a big killer of the elderly so it's literally killing his voter base and here is an effective preventer of that death.
Re: (Score:3)
In my personal experience, for what little that is worth, the traditional AstraZenica vaccine really screwed me up. Badly enough that I couldn't work for a while.
The mRNA COVID vaccines have been fine. Maybe a day or two of feeling off, some shivers the first time. The traditional flu vaccine is much worse.
If they could create a generic flu one that would be great, so they don't have to predict it every year.
Re: (Score:2)
First vaccine I had made me feel like utter shite for a few days to the point where I took a day or two off work.
On the other hand I'm still suffering the after effects of mild long covid 6 months later.
If they could create a generic flu one that would be great,
Ain't gonna happen: it mutates too fast, but that's why the mRNA one is good since a shorter lead time leads to more accurate predictions.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry to hear that. I have CFS/ME which seems to be similar, so I know a bit of what you are living with.
At least in my case things did get better eventually, so don't give up hope.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry to hear that. I have CFS/ME which seems to be similar, so I know a bit of what you are living with.
At least in my case things did get better eventually, so don't give up hope.
Thanks. For me, it played hell with my joints (that was the main symptom) to the point where I even (probably due to inflammation) got minor nerve damage. I basically couldn't stand still for more than about 5 minutes without one foot going both painful and numb. I also picked up wrist, shoulder and some other injuries. Basic
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Informative)
According to the study, it has more adverse effects, unfortunately.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... [nih.gov]
But it may be worth it for the increase efficacy.
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
With their COVID vaccine, the first time was the highest dose they knew would have only acceptable side effects, and they reduced it for the next iteration when they saw how effective it was. (If you remember the myocarditis rare side effect, that was only seen with the first version.) I would guess that the next step is backing off on the dosage to reduce the side effects now that they have results on effectiveness, which will also let them make a better case for younger people at less risk from the flu.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Personally the Covid mRNA vaccine made me the most sick Iâ(TM)ve been in my life, and a significant amount of people I personally knew, not antivaxers, had very adverse effects from it, many who needed 2-3 days off work
Then imagine what COVID would have been like?
The initial COVID vaccines were a bit over-powered in my view, but they wanted really high effectiveness, so I suppose that's the tradeoff.
Re: (Score:2)
One of the nice things about mRNA vaccines is that they tend to have fewer side effects. Flu vaccine always makes me feel pretty bad. Hopefully this will be better.
So your vaccine which works by forcing an immune response makes you feel like you're undergoing an immune response, but mRNA vaccines don't? Fascinating.
Re: (Score:2)
I have auto immune issues, and it seems like the exact nature of the response is different enough that it doesn't affect me as badly. I'm not a biologist but my understanding is that mRNA vaccines bypass a step in the process of creating immunity, so maybe it's that step that is causing me problems.
Re: Side effects (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Flu vaccine always makes me feel pretty bad.
Then imagine what the flu would be like!
I haven't read the full report, but hopefully the mRNA vaccines are safer for people with egg allergies.
Re: (Score:2)
One of the nice things about mRNA vaccines is that they tend to have fewer side effects. Flu vaccine always makes me feel pretty bad. Hopefully this will be better.
Can you cite a credible source for this?
Re: (Score:2)
If it's like the COVID shot, it will also provide more limited protection to other strains than the one it's designed for.
25% of the "common cold" infections are caused by some variety of coronavirus. I used to get colds that would linger for weeks with that very gradually decreasing hacking cough. Since the first COVID shot, I haven't had one that was more than a few days of a very mild head cold, not a single one that turned into a chest cold. I guess rhinovirus colds aren't common around here.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the real advantage is that if they guess wrong on which flu strain is going to dominate next year they can change the formula quickly. There are other advantages, but most of them don't affect as many people.
Won't affect me (Score:5, Funny)
I have it under good authority that I will die this year before the flu season due to the side effects of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine. A Facebook post quoting a Twitter post, quoting a Daily Mail article quoting some kid who dropped out of school but was an expert on VERS has told me so. /s
Re: (Score:2)
I often wonder how all these people who believed that COVID vaccines were a plot to sterilize or murder humanity have justified to themselves the continued-unchanged existence of babies-in-specific and humans-in-general, respectively.
Re:Won't affect me (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't justify it. They just move the goalposts. "Oh the world didn't end this year? I mean next year obviously."
Re: (Score:3)
More like "It only didn't end because I warned you about it, so it's been delayed, and if you don't send me more money it will end this year instead."
Re: (Score:3)
So this disinformation does kill people. I don't know how many, but more than enough.
Re: (Score:2)
I often wonder how all these people who believed that COVID vaccines were a plot to sterilize or murder humanity have justified to themselves the continued-unchanged existence of babies-in-specific and humans-in-general
Easy, they deny that's the actually state of things, claim everyone is lying about everything, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Won't affect me (Score:2)
And just like that (Score:2)
We'll never hear another word about mRNA being unsafe from republicans.
deviation (Score:3)
after a clinical trial found it was about 27% more effective than a standard flu shot.
That's within the normal variance of the traditional flu shot, which ranges in effectiveness from 22% to 56%.
The reason to believe the new one is better is because it 2-3 months to go from strain selection to fully manufactured vaccine, whereas the traditional vaccine method takes about 6 months. It makes it easier to choose the right flu strain.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well hopefully the authors are not dumb enough not to consider this. And even if they were, the peer reviewers would have caught it.
If it's genuinely 27% more effective when targeting the same flu variant (compared to regular vaccines), it's definitely a breakthrough.
Re: (Score:2)
Well hopefully the authors are not dumb enough not to consider this
Of course they considered it, they not only considered it, they told the world. They aren't trying to hide it, it's not nefarious.
Cue the Tinfoil Hat Anti-vaxxers (Score:2)
I got my popcorn ready for all the tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxer horse medicine people who will start laying on conspiracy theories about how mRNA is vaccines is new (its not) and that it's a government mind control program, without knowing anything about how mRNA vaccines actually work.
Re:Cue the Tinfoil Hat Anti-vaxxers (Score:4, Insightful)
I got my popcorn ready for all the tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxer horse medicine people who will start laying on conspiracy theories about how mRNA is vaccines is new (its not) and that it's a government mind control program, without knowing anything about how mRNA vaccines actually work.
I went from concern that they might get sick and die, to acceptance that it was their choice, to understanding that they were self-culling the herd of stupid paranoid people, and figured they were just being helpful. Always look on the bright side of life.
P.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] Martha Lillard passed June 2026 as the last known person living in an iron lung after Paul Alexander spent 70 years in one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]. Yeah - good times.
Even stupid people believed in vaccines at one time.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
... and figured they were just being helpful.
Glad to help. I've had many vaccines, but none of the covid ones. I've also never been tested for covid, even when they were pressuring people to go get tested even if you feel fine because one of the biggest symptoms of this super deadly disease is that you feel just find and have no symptoms. So now I'm about to enter my sixth winter of "severe illness and death."
Meanwhile, of the people in my life who all took the new covid vaccines:
* One uncle, who's cancer had been in remission for years, suddenly
Re: (Score:2)
... and figured they were just being helpful.
Glad to help.
You do you, homie. Your life and choices are yours. And if your choices kill you, that's a you problem.
Funny, seems like everyone near you has been physically wrecked or killed by the vaccine. Cool story bro - Not one of my extended family had an issue with it, although I did have a fever for about 8 hours that three acetominiphen tabs took care of. And had zero complications in the 5 years since.
Racist comment noted.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I got my popcorn ready for all the tin-foil hat wearing anti-vaxxer horse medicine people who will start laying on conspiracy theories about how mRNA is vaccines is new (its not)
Ding dong you're wrong. The first approved use of the mRNA platform were the covid vaccines.
I think it is entirely appropriate to question why an unproven platform like mRNA was pushed so heavily as a solution given the total initial lack of infrastructure to produce at scale, crazy cold chain requirements and lack real world experience...etc when normal protein analog vaccines the Indians could scale and produce enmasse for basically free went ignored and unfunded.
Novavax for example had human trials at a
RFK jr (Score:3)
Kennedy was heard to mumble: "Over my dead brainworm!"
Re: (Score:3)
This has to be a troll. Nobody on Slashdot is actually this stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
This has to be a troll. Nobody on Slashdot is actually this stupid.
I'm skeptical about that second part.
As for trolls, I wonder if some anti-vax propaganda is being pushed by hostile foreign powers as a way of hurting us.
Re: (Score:3)
No, it's being pushed by hostile domestic powers as a way of hurting us, while distracting from all the other stupid shit they are doing that hurts us.
You'll notice that every Republican can't wait to tell you how evil Dr. Fauci is, because literally every other topic than how Trump fucked up the pandemic response is even worse for them to talk about.
Economy? Bad.
Iran war? Bad.
Energy? Bad.
Health care? Bad.
Unemployment? Bad.
Inflation? Bad.
Immigration / ICE? Bad.
Epstein files? Bad.
January 6? Bad.
Insider inf
Re: (Score:2)
It's too perfect in being wrong for it not to be a troll.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a friend who often says things like that. The other day the great social media algorithm decided I should see a video of some guy insisting that unpasteurized milk never goes bad. To prove it he left a bottle out in the sun for a couple days and then drank it. Mmm. Chunky listeria goodness. I'm going to send her that video every time she's in doubt about the potential for human stupidity.
Re:Ivermectin is better (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe, but the 5G reception on my phone got better after I got vaccinated.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You enjoy your horse dewormer, I'll take the mRNA gene-editing.
Re: (Score:2)
Ivermectin has better efficacy against coronaviruses like the flu
You're intentionally ignoring the side effects of ivermectin.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't get what the big deal was with this during covid. Does it work for covid? No. Does it hurt anything? Also no. Why did anyone care?
Yes, it did hurt anything, because people believed they could take Ivermectin for COVID rather than, you know, actual vaccines and treatments that work.
Doctors and nurses care because it's sort of their job to care that their patients get better. And refusing treatments that work in favor of those that do not kills their patients.
Re: Ivermectin is better (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Nothing in particular. Just the inability to move, muscle pain or stiffness, joint pain, and swollen, painful, or tender lymph glands in the armpit to name just a few [mayoclinic.org]. And that's just for dosage given under supervision of a doctor. If someone decides to use the horse version, they can have seizures or go blind. This is in addition to other neurologal or gastrointestinal issues. Or death [vice.com].
So now that you have been factually informed, go ahead and make excuses and/or move the goalposts.
Re: (Score:2)
You're intentionally ignoring the side effects of ivermectin.
which are?
Ivermectin was shown to be effective in vitro. However, the dose required to have an effect was toxic to humans.
Re: (Score:3)
"government gene-editing experiment. " No, they started development back in the Bush II era and have been systematically improved. It is immaterial whether they were made using gene-editing. Hell, your parents were busing gene editing when you were conceived. I presume you were conceived and not actually from a chicken's egg hatched under toad....you are not a basilisk are you?
Ivermectin is great, yes! (Score:2)
But I know something that's even better, and it is a god-honest, classical, concentrated bleach injection. With 6.5% available chlorine, it kills 99.9% of common household germs, bacteria, and viruses. This higher efficiency is very cost-effective: you need less, and smaller bottles take up less storage space and offer more uses per ounce. Not only you need less overall, you need less volume of liquid injected, and it is so much better than vaccines, which are huge for a little baby to be injected with that
Re: Ivermectin is better (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Whether SARS-COV-2 was real
It was.
or rebranded flu
It was not.
It dropped to 99.8% if you were over.
This is not true.
forced medication
No one held a gun to your head and injected you. But conversely you have no right to breathe your virus on anyone. Freedom means you can choose to not be injected and a building owner can choose to not open the door to you.
Personally I'm not a fan of Ivermectin.
This is an almost fractally stupid sentence in only 7 words, congratulations. It's not a club. It's a medication for
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Ivermectin is better (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The covid mRNA vaccines are problematic for the following reasons:
* The mRNA does not stay localized (i.e., your arm muscle). It has been shown to travel all over the body. This may be partially related to how injects are administered. If you get an mRNA vax, ask for aspiration before injection to insure that they're not hitting a blood vessel.
* mRNA that arrives in the wrong place can cause significant issues for certain organs. This is likely the explanation for heart inflammation, erratic periods for women, brain fog, etc.
I completely agree with this. It is silly people would think injecting mRNA into any cell of the body to get them to produce franken proteins would ever be safer than directly injecting the same franken proteins in the first place.
LNPs these mRNA payloads are encased have no ability to discriminate and will enter any cell in the body causing cell death and inflammation a problem **caused by** the mRNA platform itself. Numerous studies during the pandemic established systematic distribution of mRNA vaccine
Re: (Score:2)
Didn't know that mRNA vax is not even cost effective for the most part.
I forgot one other issue:
* The mRNA has huge variation in how long it's in effect, in addition to how much antigen it produces. Not an issue with "old school" vaccines.
No more mRNA vax for me.
Cut the pseudoscientific nonsense (Score:3)
You're not even wrong. Nothing injected stays "localized."
Muscle tissue is chosen for most injections because it has MORE blood supply than fat, so that more blood will reach it faster.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not how mRNA vaccines work, or at least, how they were advertised to work. You will not find any cite that indicates that they're supposed to enter the bloodstream. They were supposed to stay at the local site, and produce the antigen at the local site of injection.
See: https://www.cdc.gov/covid/vacc... [cdc.gov]
It clearly says:
"After vaccination, the mRNA will enter the muscle cells. Once inside, they use the cells' machinery to produce a harmless piece of what is called the spike protein."
Happy to see eviden
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Side Effects (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)