How Social Media Spurred a Refugee Crisis Between Spain and Morocco (nytimes.com) 72
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Two days before tens of thousands of migrants surged into Ceuta, one of Spain's enclaves on Morocco's northern coast, a newspaper there posted a video on TikTok and Instagram showing two young women walking in the city in wet suits, their hair still damp. The posts didn't say so explicitly, but the implication was clear: The women had just swum across the border from Morocco. "Ceuta can't take it anymore," the newspaper, El Faro de Ceuta, declared in the posts. On the other side of the border, the video resonated very differently. Cropped and reposted in Arabic, the video seemed like an invitation. The women were smiling, flashing peace signs and thumbs up and, most of all, walking around freely. The video seemed to legitimize rumors that had percolated for weeks on social media suggesting that a recent ruling by Spain's Supreme Court meant migrants who arrived illegally by sea could stay in the country. As one account on Facebook put it, falsely, "Ceuta is turning into an open gate," when in fact migrants still faced expulsion after a judicial review. The responses to the posts about the swimmers were a critical part of a cascade of disinformation that experts described as one of the starkest instances in which social media contributed directly to a real-world tragedy.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:1)
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise, if we are going to blame anything and everything, the argument might as well be microplastics.
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It's almost as if different forms of social media are different.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:1)
Re:Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:1)
Re:Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:5, Insightful)
Those immigrants who enter Europe through Africa don't come on the premise that they get everything for free. They come on the premise that 1) anything is better than misery in their African hellhole, including rape and death that they have to expect on their way, and 2) if lucky enough, they'll be able to a hardworking, normal paying job like cleaning shitters in the airport or piling bricks, which will give them dignity, and even the ability to send a bit of money to their unfortunate family members who were too afraid to follow them.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:5, Informative)
Although exaggerated and hyperbolic, the general premise is true.
I've lived in various nations, including for a while in Morocco (near the capital Rabat, and a smaller village north of Kenitra).
Many people see the west as a role model of equality, justice, employability, and money. It's only the very wealthy in Morocco that enjoy fairness as they can give corruption. For the rest, they want to escape due to: -
1. Fairness and justice
2. Employment
3. Healthcare and equality
Morocco has virtually no healthcare system (mostly a facade), and almost all medicines are imported at 2x/3x the cost.
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That "reality" bubble. You should check it out sometime.
Source: Guy who lives in and around immigrants and actually knows what he's talking about in real life.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:1)
> "including rape and death"
This is false and highly exaggerated.
I would argue Morocco is safer than many parts of the US and some parts of UK. Especially for foreigners, as much of the economy depends on tourism.
Even with limited or no surveillance, the police is incredibly skilled and carry out pure old-fashioned detective work, especially when a foreigner is involved.
People genuinely fear the police as they are merciless if they see any crime (unless given corruption and where a foreigner is not invol
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In your haste to defend Morocco you've responded to a non-existent attack. GPP didn't say that migrants would be raped or killed in Morocco (although I suspect that your claims about the police's attitude to foreigners only really hold up for rich foreigners, not for South Sudanese with nothing but the clothes on their back and a phone because they gave everything else they had to the people smugglers). Migrants die in the Sahara, in the Mediterranean and in the Atlantic every year trying to get to Europe o
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I would argue Morocco is safer than many parts of the US and some parts of UK. Especially for foreigners, as much of the economy depends on tourism.
So your argument is that a place is safe for foreigners specifically and that's why the locals wouldn't feel safer in Europe? That's like saying you're an idiot because my lasagne tasted bad. The two are not related and one of them is wrong. And yeah I put the wrong cheese in my lasagne yesterday.
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It's also probably worth mentioning that one of the prime causes of those places people are fleeing being so terrible, is western imperialism and exploitation.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:2, Interesting)
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See the slavery tradition in the U.S. and try to argue that blacks are still equal these days with whites. By argue, I mean with statistics and not some cherry-picked Fox bullshit. History matters.
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:2)
What makes you think it ended?
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It's also probably worth mentioning that one of the prime causes of those places people are fleeing being so terrible, is western imperialism and exploitation.
Partially true. The other part is that it's a desert hellhole that's not a pleasant place to live and has through years bread a culture of tribalism in an attempt to survive.
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This is one of the reason why Western governments do invest in foreign aid.
It's not just charity (though that's certainly an element), but the more stable and prosperous developing nations are the less likely they're going to have to deal with a refugee crisis.
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And one of the reasons la Presidenta cut foreign aid to Africa is that if a pandemic starts there and reaches the U.S., he can argue it was all their fault and not the fault of closing their research aid toward communicable diseases. The man's entire life was spent finding scapegoats to pin his failings upon.
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This is one of the reason why Western governments did invest in foreign aid.
Fixed that for you.
For all the complaining about immigration that we see in U.S. politics, how do they not understand that helping every country around the world be a great place to live is the only long-term solution to immigration?
You can build the biggest most beautiful walls, but most illegal immigrants come across the border legally and simply overstay their visa. If you truly want fewer immigrants (which is a different debate), then the only way to really do that is ensure their home country is saf
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:2)
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And Ceuta is a waste of time. Climbing the razo
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What the... !?
You imagine Moroccan illegals as way dumber and way better informed that they are.
NOBODY emigrates in the hope of ending up as a shitter-cleaner. Those who end up in these jobs hide it to their families and invent rosy stories to hide their shame. Often, they end up in a worse situation in their country of arrival than they were in their own country. They stay (often illegally) to avoid admitting failure and losing face.
Mostly, they hope to get rich, to avoid "Makhzen" (The injustice of the sy
Re: Free Money, Free Housing and a Free Miele (Score:2)
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The only thing people get for "free" in Europe is the basic ability to not die in a ditch. There's a reason why everyone voluntarily works in Europe including those "freeloading immigrants".
Also no you don't get free housing either. It's temporary accommodation for the period of time where you are barred from working while your asylum claims are processed, and unlike the USA that process doesn't typically take years.
Please do some actual learning about what social security in Europe actually is rather than
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Ouch ! No long ago, an asylum claim could take up to two years in Belgium. Now there is a compulsory delay of 12 weeks. But even then, there is an exception for "complex" cases and people coming from country in state of war. And unlike what some far right people claim, 70 % of demands are rejected. (I do not claim you claimed otherwise)
Besides, the new EU law imposes a compulsory detention for asylum seekers who come from countries which have a low rate of acceptation. Below 20 %. And in principle, now a re
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If you think that's what's going on, you can easily take advantage of it by leaving your ID at home and just walking up to wherever they are giving out this free stuff.
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Ah yes, racism rears its ugly head. See Nazi Germany for how well that works.
Re: Invasion by an Army Of Orcs. (Score:2, Funny)
You just let us know you're racist for free thanks
Re: Invasion by an Army Of Orcs. (Score:1)
If you stayed calm and had a look at the map, you knew this would not work out. No. This was their moment.
You see so many posts about "alien invasions" on social media. It is so blown out of proportion there that all nazis pissed their pants. Multiple times.
Social engineering. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't want to dive into politics here, my goal with posting is to point out that this was an intentional social engineering tactic used to cause this situation, and it was wildly effective. One video caused a political crisis in multiple countries including infighting between those countries. Again, putting the politics aside, think about the cost effectiveness of this tactic. You produce one video, pay maybe two actors, maybe some camera people, and for the price of a small TV ad you cause a political crisis involving multiple countries, including undermining or worsening some relationships between countries.
Personally, I feel like this is a lot of what the internet is used for these days, and it kinda depresses me. I remember when the internet was just people with their own little webpages posting random crap. Today, it's a sophisticated tool used for propaganda, conflicts between countries, disinformation, you name it. It's not just countries doing this sort of thing, but companies too. Everyone is trying to manipulate your opinion, and the opinions of entire populations. Gone are the days when the internet was by people, for people. Now it's just a tool used for stuff like this.
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Key word: "enclave". It's a small city separated from the rest of Spain by 200km (120 miles) of sea. I have a Spanish friend who thinks that Morocco is cozying up to the US with the goal of getting US support for it to invade Ceuta and Melilla: except for the Ceutans and Melillans, the main impact on Spaniards would be the propaganda it would unleash. It's not some kind of Maginot line which when breached leaves open a land route to the rest of the country. So what do you think would be a proportionate depl
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It's an exclave, isn't it? But I digress. Spain's not in Trump's good books at the moment because of the way they handled Trump's war on Iran and failing to meet their NATO spending commitments. It doesn't help that Spain is "socialist" too. It would be just like Trump to backstab an ally. See how they recently leaked reconsidering their position on the Falkland Islands after getting pissed of with the UK. No doubt Morocco sees an opportunity. Talking of the UK, I find Spain's position on Gibraltar t
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To be pedantic it's a semi-exclave.
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Spanish government failed its citizens.
Nonsense. Except from the right-wing vultures abusing the images for politics and undermining EU unity (which was the intent of this campaign), there were no consequences Spain could have prevented with the border security or army. In no time, pretty much all those who had crossed were back in Morocco and everything was back to normal.
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Well this is just untrue.
The migrants are not all back in Morocco, some have landed on mainland Spain, and in the meantime have committed theft, assaults and rapes.
This is not some kumbaya peaceful action, this was a literal invasion (50,000 people entering a territory with a population of 80,000) and should have been met with force.
Re: Social engineering. (Score:1)
It should have been prevented economically before this instead of what actually happened
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And how exactly did they manage to do that? The Schengen treaty is not valid for these exclaves, so there is passport control between them and the mainland.
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Spanish government failed its citizens.
Nonsense. Except from the right-wing vultures abusing the images for politics and undermining EU unity (which was the intent of this campaign), there were no consequences Spain could have prevented with the border security or army. In no time, pretty much all those who had crossed were back in Morocco and everything was back to normal.
Jesus Christ, WTF are you talking about? Over 100 people are dead.
Re:Social engineering. (Score:5, Interesting)
The question is who and why? What if it was a test and not some random event?
here are some clues:
this is not an unprecedented event, it has happened in the past but never at this scale.
i've seen images of trucks packed with migrants unloading them near the border, and moroccan border policie directing them towards the crossing. even if those images were out of context, it is simply not plausible that around 60.000 people could traverse morocco and approach the border without moroccan authorities noticing and at least warning their spanish counterparts. so at the very least morocco has been acquiescent.
also note that the vast majority of migrants weren't moroccan, they came from far further south.
so this could have been morocco just "offloading" a migration problem to spain, either just to avoid dealing with it or as a political move or signal.
over the past months, though, the current spanish government had been the most critic country in europe of israel's actions in gaza/lebannon and us attacks on iran, refusing to let us military bases to be involved in them. these actions were likely just aimed at appeasing domestic public opinion, overwhelmingly so in the "left", but this nevertheless caused the ires of zionists both in israel and the us, from protests and threats by ambassadors to trump-social rage sprees and threats.
mid july the "u.s. house appropriations committee report" stated out of the blue that "ceuta and melilla are located in moroccan territory" and "ecouraged diplomatic engagement between morocco and spain on their future status". these statements caused quite a bit of ruckus in spain but were later "clarified and retracted".
during the events, several high profile zionist accounts (government, mossad, celebrities) mocked spain on social media over these developments.
while morocco and spain have a long history of tensions themselves the moroccan subservience to usa and israel is also well known, so it isn't at all implausible that in this case they acted on their request. ofc there is no proof of that.
also note that ceuta is not included in shengen, and influx of migrants into ceuta does not mean that they can simply pour into europe. they still have to cross the strait and cross the spanish border. the small portion of them that didn't voluntarily head back to morocco the next day are (last i checked) still stranded in ceuta.
(which means that meloni's move to close italy's borders was just political theatre ... this might be unrelated opportunism, but could as well have been suggested by other interested parties)
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and approach the border without moroccan authorities noticing and at least warning their spanish counterparts
Question: Why would they care?
Followup question: What makes you think they didn't warn their Spanish counterparts?
Final bonus question: What makes you think any of that has any impact on the outcome?
If you want to take pictures out of context, there's plenty of pictures of what happened at the border: On the Spanish side all the border agents were there, standing there in full force unable to do anything. How many people do you think make up the border guard there, and what do you think they were going to d
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What makes you think they didn't warn their Spanish counterparts?
guardia civil, policia nacional and gobierno de ceuta have said so. now, they might be lying to save face but even then (or precisely then) it is very obvious that they were caught unprepared, and diplomatic rows about this continue to this point.
ofc you probably know better.
If you want to take pictures out of context
not more than you taking my words out of context, if not directly misrepresenting them. i said that those pictures could be being taken out of context. there's still a load of them.
On the Spanish side all the border agents were there, standing there in full force unable to do anything.
they were explicitly told not to use force. on the last
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If you want to take pictures out of context, there's plenty of pictures of what happened at the border: On the Spanish side all the border agents were there, standing there in full force unable to do anything. How many people do you think make up the border guard there, and what do you think they were going to do with an influx of 50000 people? Shoot them? Prevent people who just spent 5km swimming (some didn't make it and drowned) from coming out of the water?
You come in force and physically stop them and provide suitable transportation back to where they came from. More importantly is to make it known you won't tolerate invasion in advance so this shit doesn't take place to begin with.
Did you learn nothing from Gandhi?
Did you learn nothing from Merkel who got thousands of people killed with her come to Germany stunt in 2015? Weakness gets people killed, in this particular case over 100 people died to say nothing of a terrorized local population.
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Ceuta is a small island off the coast of Africa. It is Spanish territory -but no where near Spain. There are no troops, there is barely a police force on the island.
The invasion consisted of thousands of people going for a short swim... and then going back home in a day or two when they realized that they weren't going to be taken to Spain and given Spanish/EU citizenship. They voluntarily walked back across the bridge to Morocco.
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So the problem is the video of the invasion, not the invasion itself. Got it.
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Well yes the "invasion" was a result of the video. Also the invasion wasn't actually a problem. Most of the people went home voluntarily after they realised the videos led them there under false pretences. 50000 people crossed the border, only 5-7% are still there and are getting nowhere, and 0 ended up invading the EU free movement area.
So yeah the "invasion" itself isn't a problem at all.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
One video caused a political crisis in multiple countries including infighting between those countries.
No it didn't. It was at best a contributing factor. The actual infighting between countries is caused by multiple things including a rise in nationalism and racism along with a political system that rewards bullshit if that bullshit vilifies someone who your supporting base has been led to believe is the source of all evil.
You can look to the EU crisis talks shortly after this incident. The only people who "fought" were nationalistic arseholes hoping to win political points by spreading lies. E.g. Italy (an
Re: Social engineering. (Score:2, Insightful)
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What is wrong with being nationalistic?
You and I are not using the word nationalistic the same way. There's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. There's everything wrong with doing it to the detriment of all connection elsewhere.
You want to promote local businesses, great. You want to promote local businesses but only if they are run by people with your skin colour or people who's grandparents were born there you can fuck all the way off.
The entire concept of national borders is stupid. It plays the human race against each other as a lot
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Oh you're one of those "magic soil" retards. If you don't believe in national borders, then you don't believe in Nations, which raises several questions including how do you feel large groups of people should govern themselves, and how does one interact with said government?
Sincerely: "an immigrant" (just one of those lucky enough t
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This is a social engineering tactic: create a video to stir up anti-immigrant feelings in one country, then turn around and use the same video to encourage immigration to the country that you just encouraged anti-immigrant feelings in, with the resulting political crisis being the goal. I don't want to dive into politics here, my goal with posting is to point out that this was an intentional social engineering tactic used to cause this situation, and it was wildly effective. One video caused a political crisis in multiple countries including infighting between those countries. Again, putting the politics aside, think about the cost effectiveness of this tactic. You produce one video, pay maybe two actors, maybe some camera people, and for the price of a small TV ad you cause a political crisis involving multiple countries, including undermining or worsening some relationships between countries. Personally, I feel like this is a lot of what the internet is used for these days, and it kinda depresses me. I remember when the internet was just people with their own little webpages posting random crap. Today, it's a sophisticated tool used for propaganda, conflicts between countries, disinformation, you name it. It's not just countries doing this sort of thing, but companies too. Everyone is trying to manipulate your opinion, and the opinions of entire populations. Gone are the days when the internet was by people, for people. Now it's just a tool used for stuff like this.
We weren't ready for it. The information age required a level of collective intelligence that we may have been close to possessing at some point right before it kicked into full swing, but that intelligence was being intentionally lowered in the USA for certain, and likely a few other modern countries. We didn't need the world to lose their minds up-front to arrive where we are. We just needed enough to let the momentum build, to treat as lab monkeys to test the tech on, to perfect the invasive nature of it
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Personally, I feel like this is a lot of what the internet is used for these days, and it kinda depresses me. I remember when the internet was just people with their own little webpages posting random crap. Today, it's a sophisticated tool used for propaganda, conflicts between countries, disinformation, you name it. It's not just countries doing this sort of thing, but companies too. Everyone is trying to manipulate your opinion, and the opinions of entire populations. Gone are the days when the internet was by people, for people. Now it's just a tool used for stuff like this.
The problem is that the Internet was inevitably going to (d)evolve this way no matter what the techno-utopians promised in the 1990s. The moment any communications medium shows the ability to convince / manipulate humans to do something, and especially convince humans to send money or allocate resources differently, interests from across the spectrum from state actors (for both legitimate and illegitimate) to criminal organizations were inevitably going to flood in. It is human nature.
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The people behind Cambridge Analytica didn't go away. They just let one company fold and moved on. How many other entities are involved in the same manipulation via social media?
I suspect that the same people who are bankrolling Nigel Farage and others created the social media storm that caused the mass storming of Ceuta.
lol, what? (Score:1, Troll)
Spain's politicians did indeed tacitly invite illegal immigrants. Heck, maybe not so tacitly.
Like all of that ilk, they want it both ways - they want to say all the shibboleths, to sound oh so welcoming, blah blah. But they don't want to take responsibility when the "migrants" actually take them up on it. Must be social media's fault!
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Sure, things are true because you say they are. Back in reality:
a) No they didn't,
b) This incident was spurred on by something completely unrelated to politicians (I know Americans no longer understand the concepts of separation of powers in government since they have a king now, but Spain is still a democracy).
c) Spain made it clear there's no path to the EU for said migrants and virtually all of them went back.
But congratulations, you're precisely that social media bullshit that this article is talking ab
Flashmob (Score:2)
These things happen.
Turn spellcheck back on (Score:1)