It's Not Just RAM: Windows Licenses Are Also Pushing Up PC Prices (cnet.com) 113
It's not just RAM prices that are going up, writes CNET. "Reports suggest the cost of Windows licenses for manufacturers is rising by up to 10%."
Several sites that closely follow Microsoft news, including Windows Central and Windows Latest, have published articles citing a report from Taiwan's Economic Daily News that claims some PC manufacturers are seeing a 7% to 10% increase in the cost of Windows 11 licenses...
Because they buy licenses in bulk, they get a sizeable discount over what a consumer would pay for a new copy of Windows 11. But given the existing cost pressures from other components, a big Windows 11 price hike could lead them to pass on some of the added cost to PC buyers. According to the EDN story, PC makers could raise prices by about 5% over the next quarter due to the reported Windows price hike. .. A translated version of the Economic Daily News article contains information from an unnamed PC brand executive. It says that while Microsoft typically raises licensing costs every year by single-digit percentages, that hike has reached 7% to 10% this year, a significant increase.
"A representative for Microsoft declined to comment on the report," according to the article.
But it also notes that three weeks ago laptop maker Framework blamed price hikes and reconfigurations for some of their models on processor, memory, storage, "and other silicon costs — but also "an increase in Windows license costs."
Thanks to Slashdot reader joshuark for sharing the article.
Because they buy licenses in bulk, they get a sizeable discount over what a consumer would pay for a new copy of Windows 11. But given the existing cost pressures from other components, a big Windows 11 price hike could lead them to pass on some of the added cost to PC buyers. According to the EDN story, PC makers could raise prices by about 5% over the next quarter due to the reported Windows price hike. .. A translated version of the Economic Daily News article contains information from an unnamed PC brand executive. It says that while Microsoft typically raises licensing costs every year by single-digit percentages, that hike has reached 7% to 10% this year, a significant increase.
"A representative for Microsoft declined to comment on the report," according to the article.
But it also notes that three weeks ago laptop maker Framework blamed price hikes and reconfigurations for some of their models on processor, memory, storage, "and other silicon costs — but also "an increase in Windows license costs."
Thanks to Slashdot reader joshuark for sharing the article.
Oh no (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people don't need Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
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Have you ever tried to get a Windows refund? Virtually impossible. The problem with the PC price going up is that the OEM bundles it, so unless you're on eBay and there's a windows/no-windows competitive marketplace you're going to have to suck up the OEM pricing.
Big Picture Costs. (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you ever tried to get a Windows refund? Virtually impossible. The problem with the PC price going up is that the OEM bundles it, so unless you're on eBay and there's a windows/no-windows competitive marketplace you're going to have to suck up the OEM pricing.
It appears that Microsoft normally increases the license cost every year. I'm guessing this particular increase will amount to a 1-2% impact in the big picture, since most consumers don't go home with only an OS license and no hardware.
No. I'm not justifying Microsofts increased greed. Just questioning the clickbait hype around manufactured MSRP 'panic'.
Meanwhile, RAM prices could increase by 1-2% by the end of this fucking sentence. Because a cat can play Beethoven reggae better than you ever could, and you had no idea how bad you needed cats playing Beethoven reggae.
Re: Big Picture Costs. (Score:2)
You aren't wrong. I can't wait for the AI bubble to pop.
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You aren't wrong. I can't wait for the AI bubble to pop.
At this point I wouldn’t be shocked to find the MAFIAA funding an AI bailout fit for a Influencer Beast-King.
Because ja need to see dem catz playin da classicat reggae mon..dey’re #1 in the charts according to Rolling Stone, a highly respected source known for its BOGO-combo humor/All-Time Bestest Guitar God GOAT lists that include Milli Vanilli..
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Have you ever tried to get a Windows refund? Virtually impossible. The problem with the PC price going up is that the OEM bundles it, so unless you're on eBay and there's a windows/no-windows competitive marketplace you're going to have to suck up the OEM pricing.
It appears that Microsoft normally increases the license cost every year. I'm guessing this particular increase will amount to a 1-2% impact in the big picture, since most consumers don't go home with only an OS license and no hardware.
No. I'm not justifying Microsofts increased greed. Just questioning the clickbait hype around manufactured MSRP 'panic'.
Meanwhile, RAM prices could increase by 1-2% by the end of this fucking sentence. Because a cat can play Beethoven reggae better than you ever could, and you had no idea how bad you needed cats playing Beethoven reggae.
I don't disagree with that one iota... However normal people don't buy Windows licenses like they buy their pants, home users buy it as a package with their computer (OEM) so they won't notice the price increase where as companies pay per year for CALs and they'll notice but can't do anything about it.
With the price of RAM and Storage going up it's the perfect time for MS to raise prices and not get blamed for it.
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"Most people don't need Windows"? Really Windows has about 75-80% market share for desktop users - that would tend to argue against your claim...
Have you ever tried to get a Windows refund? Virtually impossible. The problem with the PC price going up is that the OEM bundles it, so unless you're on eBay and there's a windows/no-windows competitive marketplace you're going to have to suck up the OEM pricing.
Windows Refunds are not really a thing.
OEMs agree to bundle a Win11 license with every computer of a given model and mention Win11 in printed advertisements, in return MS discounts the per unit OEM license for the OEM.
To get a refund from the OEM, the OEM would have to agree to just hand you money from their wallet - there is no "refund" or "credit" from MS.
Also, a
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Except it's not MS's offer for anything other than a license you purchased directly from MS. To refund an OEM license you effectively are at the sole mercy of the OEM. Most will not offer you a refund of the license and you rejecting the EULA will result in you needing to return the device. They will cite something like being unable to provide support or warranty for a product when using non Windows. This isn't a problem for most of us, but it's a big problem for the average consumer to buy a device cut off
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Buy your own motherboard and build your own desktop computer, then just download and install Linux.
Thanks for your suggestion completely out of touch Slashdot AC. Please go tell that to the random person who still calls the desktop tower "the hard drive" and see how far you get.
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That's complete bullshit. I have been using it as my daily driver for years as have a number of people I know who aren't particularly technical. Unless your jam is just computer gaming or you have an application that you MUST use that only runs on Windows, Linux will do pretty much anything Windows can without the licensing merry-go-round.
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>"That's complete bullshit. I have been using it [Linux] as my daily driver for years as have a number of people I know who aren't particularly technical."
Yep. Classic 80/20 rule. I estimate at least 80% of MS-Windows users could do everything they need in Linux.
>"Unless your jam is just computer gaming"
Even that is now not a barrier. Linux is "gaming" just as well or better than MS-Windows, thanks to Steam.
>"or you have an application that you MUST use that only runs on Windows"
That is a legit
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Maybe they "could", but they have literally NO INTEREST in exploring anything other than the OS they have been using since grade school, be it Windows or macOS.
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No denying that they "could" do what they do in Linux with some effort, but they have continually choosen "not to" for almost 40 years.
Linux doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table to make people switch, just more headaches that they can't easily diagnose.
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Here you are trying to convince me, like I care. The average consumer doesn't give a shit about any of that.
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Not out of the box. Not without jumping through several hoops of driver and other wrapper support.
Which is why consumers, over ~40 years, have never migratred towards Linux ever.
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At my last job where I worked for 18 years (computer animation studio), almost all the desktop computers were Linux. No complaints from the users.
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At my last job where I worked for 18 years (computer animation studio), almost all the desktop computers were Linux. No complaints from the users.
Why would they complain? The USERS (artists) live in a handful of custom and commercial applications, don't use their desktops for so-called "general computing" applications, and are supported by a team of Linux Sys Admins whose job is to create a useful/productive workspace for them. The average windows user likely does a lot more "general computing" and lacks the support of a Sys Admin team...
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Hard to miss the point this bad, but you did it!
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If it were as functional and viable as Linux users want to pretend it is, then there would be a market for cheap computers that come with it preinstalled.
You'll just have to wonder why there isn't.
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That's a pretty lazy way of excusing the inability of Linux to gain market share. Apple did, despite all difficulties and shortcomings.
The problem is that Linux brings very little to the table to make anything *better* for the average consumer.
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Yep... it _would_ have a bigger market share if everything you have (software mainly) worked in it _without using a VM running Windows (which sorta defeats the purpose of installing Linux) or WINE_.
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Or just ask for the hardware to be delivered without ANY operating system and spend the 5 minutes to pop in a USB thumb drive and install whatever you'd like.
Or buy a Mac.
Or build your own system from scratch.
Or.....
There's plenty of choices out there.
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Or just ask for the hardware to be delivered
Most of the entire PC market is dominated by companies who you don't get to "ask" for anything. You get a selection menu with limited choice.
Better still, companies which *DO* objectively offer Linux as an option don't even do that in all regions. For example you can select Ubuntu on the Dell XPS 13 on the USA site, but you can't do the same on the France, Germany, or Netherlands site. Oh and only that model by the way. You want an XPS 15, fuck you you're paying for Windows. - Dell.
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By offering an OS other than Windows on a particular model, Dell loses the discount offered to them by MS for all licenses on that model.
If they offered Linux on the XPS 15, dell would pay more for every COA for every Window XPS 15 - I guarantee you there are way, way, way more XPS 15 buyers that want Windows 11 than would consider buying they XPS 15 without Windows/with Linux.
There's also the issue of supporting Linux on multiple models (driver updates, etc - not a major expense, but an unnecessary expense
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Yes how will a company that makes $6bn in profit every year ever cope with supporting Linux. They just don't have the resources for that.
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Don't forget Linux pre-installed, it exists...
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They will cite something like being unable to provide support or warranty for a product when using non Windows.
It's groovy when the representative of a corporations admits deliberate violation of the Magnusson-Moss act. It's always nice when they confess in writing.
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>"They should wipe the drive and install Mint, and take MS up on their promise for a refund, as stated in their license agreement between them and the purchaser."
Agreed. Although getting a "refund" is probably folly. Some companies now allow you to omit the MS-Windows while buying and offering a discount. That would be the better way. Most get kickbacks from forced bloatware, so they are happy with the status quo...
In any case, I have hundreds of machines running Mint (and some other Linxen). All ar
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This horrible situation with RAM and storage pricing and availability can be and should be a great boon for Linux adoption.
The "Average Windows User" never upgrades RAM or Storage, they replace the machine, and machine prices may keep them from upgrading/replacing their systems - it is the rare Windows User that would explore alternative OS options for their current PC when they feel they've outgrown their current Windows machine.
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THIS is the way...
Everybody talks about this being the "Year Of Linux".. For me, 2010 was "The Year of Linux" and still eschewing Windows..
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I guess Linux users have not considered that their inability to turn a significant population towards Linux in 40 years might just be because they don't want to use it because it doesn't work very well for most people.
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That's called "inflation" (Score:2)
Something happens to break the former equilibrium; in this case, a few things happened - Covid, then LLMs, and now rapid changes in international commerce stability. This causes uncertainty, disruption and shortages, all of which spikes prices.
Then the opportunists see an opportunity. (And to be fair, prices are going up on everyone, even opportunists.) Prices are already going up and the bulk of buyers have no good reason to be knowledgeable
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This is what inflation looks like in a single product category.
When AI becomes Good E. Nuff, AI Agent For Hire and dismisses human employment completely, it will be very hard to argue "single" categories being impacted. Forget the timeless mantra of "Just go re-educate yourself and find another job." That advice is dead in the era of AI replacing the human brain.
Buckle up, this is going to be "normal" for a long time.
Nothing, is "normal" anymore. Not even when we have a Revolution. And it's going to take a lot more than a buckle for people to accept that. We won't even know how to define "inflation" in the era of 25% g
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This is what inflation looks like in a single product category.
Well, yes, increases in prices are to be expected year over year due to inflation in general (and not just because it is software), but this year the increases were reportedly in the 7-10% range, which is somewhat higher than in some previous years with somewhat equivalent inflation numbers. And for manufacturers, who only pay $50-80/device, that is not a huge increase, but when your margins are being cut all across the board due to other cost increases, every dollar increase in your licensing costs makes
That's called Market Capture. (Score:2)
..every dollar increase in your licensing costs makes a difference, until you have to raise your prices to the end user.
This is true, but lets zoom the lens out a bit and really look at the problem.
When the one licensing a PC planet is a card-carrying member of the Magnificent Seven Stocks shoring up the rest of the market, how exactly does one put a reasonable value on their profit margins when Demand on the Magnificent side of the business is represented by the bloodthirsty ticker-sucking stock junkie investor horde screaming "MOAR! MOAR! MOOOOOOAAAARR!" directly into the soul of every retirement fund?
Needless to say that'
coud? (Score:2)
Because they buy licenses in bulk, they get a sizeable discount over what a consumer would pay for a new copy of Windows 11. But given the existing cost pressures from other components, a big Windows 11 price hike could lead them to pass on some of the added cost to PC buyers.
no, it should be:
Because they buy licenses in bulk, they get a sizeable discount over what a consumer would pay for a new copy of Windows 11. But given the existing cost pressures from other components, a big Windows 11 price hike will lead them to pass on some of the added cost to PC buyers.
one more:could? (Score:2)
...
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Is a 10% increase on something that costs around $20 really qualify as a "a big Windows 11 price hike"?
No.
Will that 10% license cost increase wind-up being paid for by the customer? Of Course. The customer pays every expense, but the 10% COA license cost increase will likely be mitigated by potentially lower prices on things like CPUs (using lower-spec parts) and other components - this is not the "big event" many here are claiming.
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CPUs or other components with lower spec parts isn't a big deal?
and people complain about the "Apple Tax" (Score:2)
But at least you know who sets the price on Apple products, no hiding behind third parties, bulk licenses, collaborative marketing, etc, etc, etc.
Rising tide lifts all boats (Score:2)
Everybody has an excuse to raise prices so they do. That's the mechanism. Anyone claiming to give a better reason is full of shit.
Won't someone think of the children (Score:1)
The OEM price of Windows going up could raise a computer price like 2... maybe even 3$!
Let's add a little more FUD to that article before you post it next time.
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Let's add a little more FUD to that article before you post it next time.
In the article it says Windows retail is $139 for Home and $200 for Pro. Math says the increase is $14-$19 for retail. I am not sure that tracks with your $2-$3 estimate.
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Let's add a little more FUD to that article before you post it next time.
In the article it says Windows retail is $139 for Home and $200 for Pro. Math says the increase is $14-$19 for retail. I am not sure that tracks with your $2-$3 estimate.
In three months, we can ask those selling computers who had to discount their products a third time before Black Friday never fiscally justifies itself about that $2-3 estimate. Much like all of new car hype, no one is lining up in viral droves to pay that new PS5-FU price just in time for Christmas.
PC Greed might find itself running face-first into the new car sales problem with ever-increasing MSRP; It drops, or it rots.
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Sources on the internet say an OEM licence of Windows 11 is 20-40 €.
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In the article it says Windows retail is $139 for Home and $200 for Pro. Math says the increase is $14-$19 for retail. I am not sure that tracks with your $2-$3 estimate.
FFS, do you not understand the difference between OEM and Retail pricing?
OEMs buy COAs by the tens of thousands, and get significant discounts by doing things like supporting the end-user.
Retail licenses cover MS providing some level of customer support, and include retail markup for the seller.
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FFS, do you not understand the difference between OEM and Retail pricing?
And what is OEM pricing? You don't know do you? If you bothered to read the article it says: "As this article points out, OEM pricing for Windows varies by company and even by the type of processor being used in the computer. . ."
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No, YOU don't know. LOL
Why are you even here?
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I've never met a more aptly named slashdot poster in all my life.
It is widely known that OEM costs are $30-40 per license. Making the increase they are talking about here... $3-4.
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OEM cost of Windows 11 Home is $30-$40 depending on their specific case.
So the entire PC cost will increase by $3-$4? Who really cares. You're just splitting hairs.
Yeah, nah. (Score:2)
Since the TFS doesn't mention how much they actually cost and just gives the percentage increase (I wonder whyâ¦.) I had to RTFA.
An extra ten bucks for the Windows license pales in comparison to RAM prices tripling.
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Since the TFS doesn't mention how much they actually cost and just gives the percentage increase (I wonder whyâ¦.) I had to RTFA.
The article says Windows 11 Home is $139 and Pro is $200 currently. A 10% increase would mean prices of $153 and $220..
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The article says Windows 11 Home is $139 and Pro is $200 currently. A 10% increase would mean prices of $153 and $220..
No the article says: "for consumers who aren’t OEM manufacturers , the cost of the operating system is $139 for the Home version and $200 for the Pro version."
This article is not about consumers, it's about OEMs. The article also explicitly mentions that isn't the same price OEMs pay. Seems you managed to read to the end of the article (good for you), but forgot the content 5 paragraphs earlier on the way.
A great strategy for increasing profits (Score:2)
If people don't like your product, sales are down, and there's negative press almost daily describing it as bloated, convoluted, and filled with ads, just increase the price in order to make up the difference.
I'm sure it'll work great, and I can't see how this could possibly backfire spectacularly.
*gets popcorn*
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just increase the price in order to make up the difference.
It's all about perception. Higher price means product has more value. Gotta have one now!
All Components (Score:2)
Whether it's market forces, tariffs, or anything else, all components of PCs have dramatically risen in price.
RAM prices have shown the fastest and most dramatic price increases by several orders of magnitude.
Don't forget to drink your Soylent Green. (Score:2)
RAM prices have shown the fastest and most dramatic price increases by several orders of magnitude.
RAM prices are what happens to a market when Demand is driven by AI.
Which is a bit uh, Meta..when you think about it this first literal iteration of that as we expend trillions to physically build moar AI.
Which that AI will then be abused to brainwash us into believing we need to build moar AI.
By that time your name will be Soylent Green. Prices won't matter much unless you're over 200 pounds dressed and they get a bulk discount. Mmmmm. AI fishing food..
The math doesn't add up. (Score:2)
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Calculated with Excel.
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People forgot how much Windows used to cost (Score:2)
Windows 98, 28 years ago, cost $209. https://news.microsoft.com/sou... [microsoft.com] Accounting for inflation, that would be $428 in today's dollars.
The summary doesn't mention this, but the article says the price of the home version of Windows 11 now costs $139. Maybe that's up from what it was, but way, way down from a long-term perspective.
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I paid $99 for a fully legit copy of Windows 7 Pro, system builder's edition. That's simply intended to be sold alongside parts for a new PC, which in fact is what I was doing. Therefore I'm confident that an OEM license for Windows 7 Home was less than that.
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"System builder's edition" sounds a lot like "OEM" to me.
Re: People forgot how much Windows used to cost (Score:2)
It isn't. It's sold to customers building a system. That's why they have different names which sound different to everyone but you.
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I've got news for you. OEMs are companies that...build systems.
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I've got news for you. OEMs are companies that...build systems.
I've got news for you. I'm a human end user, not a legal fiction.
Are you a human? Because you're demonstrating less comprehension ability than even a mediocre bot.
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I used to tell my kids I'm alien, but nowadays it's more fun to tell them I'm an AI. So you got me there! But you completely ignored my response and attacked me instead. That tells me you don't have an actual logical point to make.
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But you completely ignored my response and attacked me instead.
You completely ignored what I actually wrote in my comment, you don't get to cry about me allegedly ignoring your comment. I didn't ignore it, it was fucking stupid and I addressed it. You're free to say something less fucking stupid than that you think I'm a corporation.
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I never said you were a corporation. What I said was that an OEM is a company that builds computers. If you also build computers as an individual, you might be doing so as a corporation or as a sole proprietorship, or for yourself. What difference does that make, in relation to the subject at hand? A corporation (OEM) can build a system, and an individual can build a system. What made you feel it important to bring in the legal entity classification into this discussion?
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Windows 98, 28 years ago, cost $209. https://news.microsoft.com/sou... [microsoft.com] Accounting for inflation, that would be $428 in today's dollars.
The summary doesn't mention this, but the article says the price of the home version of Windows 11 now costs $139. Maybe that's up from what it was, but way, way down from a long-term perspective.
Yup. A little Google tells us an OEM Win11 home is between $120 and $140 US today. An OEM Win 98 license in 1998 was between $50 and $70 USD. That's between $100 and $143 in today's dollars.
So yeah, the average price has crept up a bit. But we also can't ignore that you got less functionality in the box with Win98, even if we don't necessarily like some of what's in Win11.
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you got less functionality in the box with Win98
Did you though?
Or I should ask, is there more functionality in the box today, that we actually want?
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you got less functionality in the box with Win98
Did you though?
Or I should ask, is there more functionality in the box today, that we actually want?
The part of the sentence you omitted: "even if we don't necessarily like some of what's in Win11."
And yes, obviously yes. From IPv6 to NTFS to WSL to ASLR to PowerShell to inbox drivers to 64-bit memory addressing to being dramatically more stable, there's plenty we want. Maybe not every member of we but still yes.
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I don't think my omission or your list of new features, actually makes a significant difference.
All of the new "feature" you mention, had functional equivalents back in 1998. Why should Win98 support IPv6 when that standard wasn't even released until 1998, and nobody was using it? I'd say the same for your other "more" functionality. Yes, in a pedantic way. In a practical way, those things weren't included for the same reason TVs didn't support 4K back then.
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I don't think my omission or your list of new features, actually makes a significant difference.
All of the new "feature" you mention, had functional equivalents back in 1998. Why should Win98 support IPv6 when that standard wasn't even released until 1998, and nobody was using it? I'd say the same for your other "more" functionality. Yes, in a pedantic way. In a practical way, those things weren't included for the same reason TVs didn't support 4K back then.
Riiiiight. New features aren't new because they didn't exist before they existed. Sure.
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You missed the point entirely.
Windows is an operating system. It supports the operating system needs of today's users. In 1998, Windows 98 supported the needs of 1998 users. It's ridiculous to suggest that because Windows 11 supports IPv6, and Windows 98 didn't, Windows 11 should cost more because it has "more features."
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That's the retail prices for individual "system builder" licenses - you need to work on your "Googling"
Retail and OEM are not the same thing. OEM was legally not for sale in the retail channel. It was only for system builders. Yes, you could legally buy a single but only with system components. Also yes, presumably there were bulk discounts... but those should be reasonably consistent between then and now.
if only (Score:1)
Then it's settled (Score:2)
This will be the year of the Linux Desktop
Bulk pricing? (Score:2)
"Because they buy licenses in bulk, they get a sizeable discount". This makes no sense whatever. Generally, when you buy something "in bulk" you may get a discount because the per-unit ancillary costs (packaging, S&H. labeling, accounting, etc) are less. How does any of this apply to licensing, which is indistinguishable from selling air?
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As you increase the size of the bulk licenses' box, the amount of expensive cardboard increases as a square, but the number of licenses that fit inside the box increases as a cube. This results in a reduction of the amortized cardboard cost per license.
If a cost reduction isn't happening, then I would suggest people look into the shape of their bulk licenses. It may be that a same-sized box holds fewer licenses than it did ten years ago, due to the addition of "AI features" being tacked onto everything, res
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They get a discount because the OEMs agree to install the OS on EVERY computer, no exception - it takes the per-unit price down to $20ish per PC.
The discount has nothing to do with packaging savings, there is no media shipped with the PC, no floppies, no CD/DVD, etc.
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I had never thought about it before, but you're right. Maybe it's inertia from when software was boxed media (expectations)? Maybe it's a sales tactic?
Wait a minute, those numbers don't make sense. (Score:2)
The average cost of a new laptop is $800. 5% of that is $40. Even if the OEM cost for a windows 11 license went up 10%, it cannot be responsible for a 5% increase in laptop prices.
Do not pay for an operating system! (Score:2)
it should be free (Score:2)
windows should be free, because all the privacy and ads invading things it includes. if linux can be free, i'm sure microsoft can do the same.
THIS IS A FALSE STORY (Score:1)
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That would make for a grave situation.
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Are you suggesting you pay for an OEM Windows license which you automatically do with your PC purchase, and also pirate windows? Why would you do that?
Or are you suggesting you, as a business, provide a product pre-loaded with pirated software? Because that's a great way to get sued out of existence and potentially spend some time in white collar jail if you run your business like that.
You're obviously not suggesting the user simply pirate Windows, because the user doesn't have the choice to not pay for Win
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Funny.. I seem to recall a couple of months ago, that several major pc mfgrs (Dell/HP/Lenovo?) had decided to make windows an extra cost option and default to putting Linux on their systems. Perhaps this windows license cost increase is due to this OS switch finally hitting MS's bottom line. We can only HOPE so..
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Citation?
I find it hard to believe any major manufacturer would forgo volume discounts available by committing to include Win 11 on each and every shipping computer in order to add an additional cost for a nearly required item like Windows OS.