Comcast Is Turning Millions of Its Routers Into Motion Detectors (theverge.com) 83
Comcast is activating Wi-Fi motion sensing on millions of compatible Xfinity gateways, allowing the routers to detect movement by measuring disruptions in signals between the gateway and connected devices. The free feature, part of Xfinity Shield, can send activity alerts through the Xfinity app and offers Home, Away, and nighttime monitoring modes without requiring separate motion sensors. The Verge reports: Wi-Fi motion sensing is a technology that has been around for a while, but it's only recently that it's become accurate and reliable enough to catch on. Linksys launched a similar service in 2021, but discontinued it a few years later. Lighting company Wiz launched a line of Wi-Fi-sensing smart bulbs in 2023, and more recently Philips Hue deployed a similar radio-frequency sensing technology in its products (using Zigbee rather than Wi-Fi). Comcast's motion sensing pairs with new modes in the Xfinity app -- Home Watch, Away Watch, and Dark Watch (a night/sleep mode) -- allowing you to turn sensing on or off based on your activities.
user consent (Score:3)
Are they turning this on with or without permission of the customer? Would they tell you if they did it on their own?
Re:user consent (Score:5, Informative)
Its a paid feature. You don't get it for free.
We have had access to this in Canada for a long time but it is ridiculously overpriced so I don't pay for it.
Re:user consent (Score:5, Informative)
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And I can 100% guarantee you that if the cops show up with a warrant, they'll turn it on and step away from the monitor to get a cup of coffee.
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Or they'll sell the "anonymized data", including calculated bra sizes.
This is a pretty invasive move on Comcast's part. Only the lawyers will win this one.
Re:user consent (Score:4, Interesting)
Or they'll sell the "anonymized data", including calculated bra sizes.
Supposedly Facebook knows everything about me. They're running on way more specific information than just "when does he walk around his house in the evening?" You know what kind of ads I keep getting lately? Ones for a ridiculously overpriced e-scooter. I've also been getting ads for an 80s cover band made up of two teenagers and their father, for a tour that was in Florida a little over a week ago. It got the liking 80s pop music part right, but it's way off on my ownership of a time machine and desire to watch Gen A musicians.
I'd be downright thrilled if marketers would actually show me ads for things I genuinely would be interested in, like if Outback ever brings back Bloomin' Mondays. Really, the worst part about ads is that the targeting algorithm is still absolute horse shit.
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[T]he worst part about ads is that the targeting algorithm is still absolute horse shit.
No, the worst part about ads is that they exist at all in a form that intentionally disrupts your attention.
That fundamental issue is then exacerbated by the current societal tolerance for lies, and you get intrusive advertisements that are deeply misleading.
So, why are you tolerating current advertising at all when there are tools that effectively eliminate it?
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Well, your free use of Facebook or Google or YouTube has to be paid for somehow... I'm sure you could buy a paid account plan that would reduce or remove the ads, but is just removing ads alone worth it?
"You can buy this amazing laser welder for..."
(The website shows it's a soldering iron with a feed thing for the solder).
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You have misunderstood the purpose of advertising. It is not to sell you things you want to buy, it is to sell you things they want to sell. A very fundamental difference.
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You have misunderstood the purpose of advertising. It is not to sell you things you want to buy, it is to sell you things they want to sell. A very fundamental difference.
It's both. Advertisers very much want to advertise things you want to buy, to either trigger a purchase that you were holding off on and might forget about or (more often) to direct a purchase to a specific product or brand, rather than a competitor's. Advertisers also want to push purchase ideas to you, to tell you about things you might want to buy that you didn't know about, or often just to build brand awareness or brand vibes so that if at sometime in the future you're interested in something, you'll
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...getting ads for an 80s cover band made up of two teenagers...
I saw that too, youtube must be running a dog and pony show for their ad buyers. See how wholesome and pure our platform is, cue the perfect family safe videos.
Truth is I get Party Drug ad videos for a morphone/viagra pill so I can party my dick clean off. Come to think of it its back to school time, to shop, pre holidays, must consume time again.
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If some data broker really wants to get their hands on information regarding every time my cat knocks something over in the middle of the night, it's their money to burn.
Not their money (Score:2)
It's taxpayer money. Means they'll burn through it all the faster.
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Does anybody read anything?
From the summary: "The free feature, part of Xfinity Shield, can send activity alerts through the Xfinity app and offers Home, Away, and nighttime monitoring modes"
From the link: "An opt-in feature of WiFi Shield, WiFi Motion is turned off by default. Use the Xfinity app to access the feature, toggle it on, and follow the setup process to configure your WiFi Motion coverage. Once activated, you can adjust settings, view activity, and access a feed of WiFi Motion events from the Xf
Re:user consent (Score:4, Insightful)
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That is the suspicion.
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Since when do you trust $big_corp? If they say they don't do something you can bet they ARE doing it.
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It shows just how badly your laws have been captured by corporations. Started out strong with constitutional protections against invasion of privacy, but now you are well behind Europe and corporations can apparently just spy on you as much as they like.
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It's a feature their Wifi Shield product...which is free
Re:user consent (Score:4, Interesting)
You have no control over it, its not yours. And this kind of crap is why you always deny them this, and get your own wifi/router.
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A little bit of aluminum foil and that 'feature' is dead.
If you're really feeling spiffy, the wire mesh from an old screen door from before they switched to plastic would probably work as well.
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A little bit of aluminum foil and that 'feature' is dead.
And so is your wifi *smh*
Re: user consent (Score:2)
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And how is this off topic? LOL
Re: user consent (Score:2)
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Or disable NAT, enable bridging mode, and turn off wifi features on the cable modem so that it's not acting as a router any longer and your equipment gets the public IP. That way you don't have to buy a DOCSIS router.
Re:user consent (Score:4, Informative)
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The main reason I use my own equipment is the cost - purchasing my own cable modem paid for itself in only about 6 months.
Admittedly, the security benefits are a nice serendipity too.
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Admittedly, the security benefits are a nice serendipity too.
I'm just sittin' here with my TP-Link router, smugly satisfied that only the Chinese will know when I get up in the middle of the night to take a piss.
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Are they turning this on with or without permission of the customer? Would they tell you if they did it on their own?
Maybe it's in the terms of service. Comcast could monetized this data stream by selling to burglars who wish to increase their operational efficiency by identifying people on vacation. If this works out well, maybe Comcast could take a cut of the proceeds.
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That said Germany recognized the threat of the far right and they have been clamping down on it since the fifties like you wouldn't believe. What is scary is that the far right has gradually been reducing those restrictions.
It's the paradox of tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant. They will use that against you and then they will murder you in your s
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That's why it's necessary to take the concept of Communism and understand that it's an unattainable asymptote. Humanity is what gets in the way, we're selfish and we would nearly all of us take in order to have for ourselves even if our peers don't have the option. It would take a post-scarcity economy (think the situation of The Federation in Star Trek) for there to even be a chance at something working, it would require that anyone can have access to almost anything that's new.
I don't look at specific s
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Communism ...
I'm fairly certain that's not what the "Com" in Comcast stands for. Okay, they are a cable company and cable companies are the devil, so maybe I'll revise that to 70% certain.
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Way to out yourself as being American by being simultaneously loudly, assertively ignorant and racist at the same time.
** - Collective guilt is a fallacy; modern Germany is a highly democratic constitutional state with a commendable record on teaching against extremism; Marx and Engel drew heavily from French utopian socialists (e.g., Saint-Simon, Fourier), while it was the Russians who actually implemented communism; World War I began with the assassination of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand by a Bosnian
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Ah, the good 'ol "No True Communism" argument :)
It's OPT-IN (Score:3, Informative)
Please stop with the sensationalism. As the linked-to article clearly explains, the motion tracking feature is OPT-IN.
When somebody turns this feature on, it's hard to imagine that they'd be surprised by it being on.
Re:It's OPT-IN (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you have laws and they are strictly enforced with extremely harsh penalties companies will do whatever the fuck they want and you have to suck it down. And we stopped passing those kind of laws here in America in the '80s when Ronald Reagan took over. The few we had left on the books we stopped and forcing when newt Gingrich started fucking up Congress. And the last of our civil rights got rendered moot when we gave up the courts to a bunch of corrupt fascists.
We are at the final line of defense as far as democracy is concerned. The voters and elections. It is possible because of Trump's failing Health we might turn that around just barely but it's pretty touch and go right now.
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Sure thing, Comrade.
Re: It's OPT-IN (Score:3)
Now do Facebook shadow accounts.
You sound just like a noob.
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Now do Facebook shadow accounts.
Flock has entered the chat.
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Please stop with the sensationalism. As the linked-to article clearly explains, the motion tracking feature is OPT-IN.
It's an opt-in feature if you want to use it. That doesn't mean it's opt-in if they want to use it. Don't forget that every contract you sign today has a clause that terms and conditions can be changed at any time. All they have to do is state it in the fine print of your bill. If you don't notify them that you don't accept the change, then it will be in force. If you disagree they may turn it off. But if you live in an area where that's your only high-speed internet option they can drop you as a customer a
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Which part of the features exactly are opt-in? The part where it detects your movement inside your own home and reports it to the mothership? Or just the part where customers can receive alerts based on that activity? They don't appear to say.
And how long do you bet it will be until customers find they were "accidentally" opted into the feature without their knowledge? Or Comcast deliberately chan
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"the motion tracking feature is OPT-IN."
BWAHAHAHAHA this stupid motherfucker believes Comcast!
Time for the nursing home old man.
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If you believe it won't be turned on I have a router to sell I mean rent to you
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Please stop with the sensationalism. As the linked-to article clearly explains, the motion tracking feature is OPT-IN.
No, Comcast says it is opt-in. I am skeptical until someone analyzes one of these devices to make sure. I do not put it past Comcast to turn it on and immediately start selling the data but never tell the customer. Or it was activated "by mistake" in a firmware update.
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So, the company (Comcast here, but Spectrum, T-Mobile, Verizon, any of them) could never turn it on from there end? Must be some super-duper secured router you've got, and you must have read every work in the Contract and Terms Of Service and End User License Agreement, right?
Reason 862 why I use my own router (Score:3)
Reason #1 of course is the public Xfinity SSID that lets anyone in the neighborhood chomp on my bandwidth
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True. But it may explain why the homeless people like parking their RVs in front of my house.
Free WiFi!
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Soo (Score:3)
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I'm assuming that this works because when the AP is communicating with endpoints in fixed locations, the AP can tell when signal quality changes as attenuators move through the space. This might work better with modern 'beam forming' APs using modern 802.11 standards, but theoretically one could constantly measure the signal strength between a stationary endpoint and the AP and observe when that signal is weaker than it otherwise should be.
If there are insufficient stationary endpoints it might not work so
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I'm assuming that this works because when the AP is communicating with endpoints in fixed locations, the AP can tell when signal quality changes as attenuators move through the space. This might work better with modern 'beam forming' APs using modern 802.11 standards, but theoretically one could constantly measure the signal strength between a stationary endpoint and the AP and observe when that signal is weaker than it otherwise should be.
If there are insufficient stationary endpoints it might not work so well unless it can somehow measure reflectivity with enough precision to know that something moved through.
Probably, yes. There was a paper on this, just a week ago: using it to identify people [techradar.com]
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The specialised hardware is in all WiFi 4 (802.11n) routers already. It's abusing the same feature that is required to make beamforming work, which is part of the 802.11n standard. The rest is just clever firmware analysing results.
Sure, I'm fine with that - NOT (Score:2)
... allowing you to turn sensing on or off based on your activities.
Why was my first thought about this "bwahahaha"? I mean, they'd never activate this without permission - right?
I wonder how soon somebody will come up with some kind of random "stirrer" to mask occupants' movements.
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"Accidentally" putting another router nearby on the same channel but a few MHz sour (stay within the licensed band!), however, is conveniently interference the other router is required to deal with politely.
Re: oh god (Score:1)
Another reason... (Score:2)
Like anybody needed another reason to hate Comcast. Sheeh.
Comcast TattletaleasaService? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there any legal principle that prevents Comcast from using this to determine the number and size of pets you have, and then selling that data to, say, apartment management companies, HOAs, and municipal code-compliance departments that have restrictions/fines on number/size of pets?
"Find out how we help our partners in large urban markets increase their citation revenues by 19.7%!"
And then Comcast gets 3% of the deposit/fee/citation as profit-sharing, exactly like the red-light camera companies.
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Anyone thinking that turning your property into a spy-camera that anyone can 'use' (for a fee) to expose your private actions, doesn't understand the problem. Imagine, Comcast makes a device so s
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You're talking about equipment that you own... no, Comcast or any other ISP can touch it, though the equipment's manufacturer could with a firmware update.
TFA is talking about a "feature" in Comcast's WiFi routers.
There is always a line in the Contract _or_ Terms Of Service that let's the Company modify the ToS at any time, and make changes to their equipment which you lease/rent at any time.
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Legal principles for privacy and protection of data? In America? Of course not, that encroaches on your freedoms to get fucked over by corporations.
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Mostly in the inaccuracy.
You can tell at best a "blob" walked between two endpoints that are participating in the monitoring network. You can't tell what that blob is, or even how big the blob is - you can guess based on how much distortion was caused, but telling the difference between a toddler and a dog would be impossible.
It requires a transmitter and a receiver to work. If you don't want to participate, all you have to do is not use their equipment. The gateway by itself is useless - you need their mes
Isolate the thing (Score:2)
I've got my modem, router, NAS and printer attached to an extender from the closet they reside in. If Comcrap, or Rectum cable turn this on they get the 5x5 room. closet.
Meraki has it too (Score:1)
Great for burglars! (Score:2)
Since Comcast security will doubtlessly suck, this is a great way to find out whether anybody is home and when people are usually gone.
wifi location (Score:2)
A new kind of Free (Score:2)
Free as in speech (maximal rights)
Free as in beer (zero price)
Free as in yacht (capex vs opex)
Free as in mattress (value below price)
Now, free as in Comcast (worthless, do not want)
Build A Phased-Array Radar That Sees Through Walls (Score:2)
help for burglars (Score:2)
Help for burglars to know when no one is home.